haggling with car dealers

Eoghan25

Hi,
I was talking to a car dealer in relation to an audi tt.I am importing and it is in the uk. The price is 15,495 and 2005 audi tt 1.8 coupe. I decided i want to go for it. I was hoping to get for around 14,500 considering id be paying cash etc. Obviously I wanted to agree this price before i went over. So i started saying that i would be paying cash so I would want a discount. He said its not preferable for them just to sell for cash he would not mind if was financed by them etc so no discount.I then said i would give him 14k with the thinking i would give room for bit haggling and eventually getting 14 1/2k. He just went no way we could not do bussiness he would bought for around this price best of luck on search for audi. Is 1000 off not common a bit haggling etc?? Where do I go from here i have not heard from him since monday and if i go back he sort holds all the cards and be lucky to get any sort of discount? Anyone have any advice on this??


Thks

Churchy

With so much competition in the UK many dealers price their cars to sell.

300,000+ cars on autotrader website alone. I know of some who only mark screen prices up by £600 so theres no room for negotiation as this £600 has to pay 17.5% vat , possibly a service and the cost of laying out £5-15k on a car.

Is the car cheap compared to the competition?
If it is thats why you've got no discount. The guys who have little mark up work on volume and finance commission and yes if you make a low offer they will move onto the next punter.

Is it the 180PS TT?
You got a link to the ad?

Anan1

Forget about discount and focus on price.

Stevie Dakota

The UK is not like here were you can expect around €1,000 off as a starting point, big discount are harder to get, especially from main dealers with desirable cars.

Ronanom

Eoghan25 wrote: »

Hi,
I was talking to a car dealer in relation to an audi tt.I am importing and it is in the uk. The price is 15,495 and 2005 audi tt 1.8 coupe. I decided i want to go for it. I was hoping to get for around 14,500 considering id be paying cash etc. Obviously I wanted to agree this price before i went over. So i started saying that i would be paying cash so I would want a discount. He said its not preferable for them just to sell for cash he would not mind if was financed by them etc so no discount.I then said i would give him 14k with the thinking i would give room for bit haggling and eventually getting 14 1/2k. He just went no way we could not do bussiness he would bought for around this price best of luck on search for audi. Is 1000 off not common a bit haggling etc?? Where do I go from here i have not heard from him since monday and if i go back he sort holds all the cards and be lucky to get any sort of discount? Anyone have any advice on this??


Thks

If those prices are in sterling then your dreaming.

-Chris-

If you really want the car, go back to him and offer more money. He'll sell it if the price is right. If you let your pride get in the way, you'll never own the car no matter how valuable you think it is.

He's not snickering behind his hand at you, he's just trying to sell the car for the most he can get (and he obviously thinks he'll get more from someone else).

Anytime someone gives me an unreasonable offer, I never say "that's unreasonable, forget about it" because that closes the door. You leave the door open and you'd be surprised how often someone will call back and re-open the negotiations.

niceirishfella

I have bought and imported and Vrt'd dozens of car/van/jeeps and even a truck from the uk, and discounts for cash are always available. Whenever i get told that there is no discount, I just walk away - as there is always a haggle to be had.

The problem is haggling over the phone........its near impossible to do. You gotta be there in the flesh with cash on the hip (or a least a banker back home ready to wire cash to their a/c) to haggle for real. Over the phone or on email is a waste of time. You have to pack a bag, fly over, stay over, and travel around to pre-arranged viewings in a certain area to indentify a motor,validate its history, eyeball is very closely, and haggle hard man to man.

End of.

Eoghan.....i'm headed over next week to view a motor - pm me if you wanna tag along and get you a car as well.

drdre

I got 7k off list price here in ireland.It was a brand new car that i got for my father as i surprise last month.So there is discounts to be got if you go to the right place.

-Chris-

drdre wrote: »

I got 7k off list price here in ireland.It was a brand new car that i got for my father as i surprise last month.So there is discounts to be got if you go to the right place.

Do you mind if I ask what it was? That's a serious discount!

drdre

AudiChris wrote: »

Do you mind if I ask what it was? That's a serious discount!

Yep i know it was a good discount,Im not even in the trade but i like bargaining and also thats all i could get off as the sales guy was really getting annoyed
The car was a 08 S80, I wouldn't want to mention any dealers

E92

In fairness the S80 is struggling sales wise, and it has this phenomenal ability to depreciate VERY quickly. The old one was much more popular. I rather like Volvos as it happens(though their main dealers know how to charge).

As a matter of interest, what engine was the S80 in question? I seem to remember you saying before your old man had a T6 version of the old S80, is the new car a 3.2 or a V8?

unkel

E92 wrote: »

In fairness the S80 is struggling sales wise, and it has this phenomenal ability to depreciate VERY quickly

And I seem to remember people posting here about big S80 petrol engines totally falling apart way before their time. What's that saying about donkeys and stones again?

drdre

E92 wrote: »

In fairness the S80 is struggling sales wise, and it has this phenomenal ability to depreciate VERY quickly. The old one was much more popular. I rather like Volvos as it happens(though their main dealers know how to charge).

As a matter of interest, what engine was the S80 in question? I seem to remember you saying before your old man had a T6 version of the old S80, is the new car a 3.2 or a V8?

My dad had the old T6, but now its not worth getting the 3.2 etc we just went for a 2.5T Diesel instead.Its much more practical.

drdre

unkel wrote: »

And I seem to remember people posting here about big S80 petrol engines totally falling apart way before their time. What's that saying about donkeys and stones again?

Yeah you are right, My fathers engine blew on his old volvo but there is a saying "Volvo for life" as it suits people.There are just some cars that don't suit old people but the volvo is made for that market.So people keep buying them.

Par72

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

The UK is not like here were you can expect around €1,000 off as a starting point, big discount are harder to get, especially from main dealers with desirable cars.

Is the €1,000 as a starting point off a new or used car?

keefg

niceirishfella wrote: »

I have bought and imported and Vrt'd dozens of car/van/jeeps and even a truck from the uk, and discounts for cash are always available. Whenever i get told that there is no discount, I just walk away - as there is always a haggle to be had.

The problem is haggling over the phone........its near impossible to do. You gotta be there in the flesh with cash on the hip (or a least a banker back home ready to wire cash to their a/c) to haggle for real. Over the phone or on email is a waste of time. You have to pack a bag, fly over, stay over, and travel around to pre-arranged viewings in a certain area to indentify a motor,validate its history, eyeball is very closely, and haggle hard man to man.

This is spot on advice. You have to be there in person waving the cash in the sellers face to expect any realistic discount.

Eoghan25

thanx for all the posts and thanx for the offer niceirishfella but im not too sure how i will be fixed next week. Just in relation to been over there face to face i would looked at this the opposite way, the dealer has a fair idea you flown over most likely have got a ferry booked for going home. Youve organised your sterling etc. Your going be under pressure for time and your sitting there trying to break this fella down on price watching the clock. The pressure on you more so than him considering the organisation you have to put into it. I take your point though its very tempting for dealer knowing he can get sale and cash on the day and its sitting there in his face but from haggling persepective a smart enough dealer could use it to push his price. Even if you stay over you still got limited time to get agreed priceand if comes to stage you got a few hours to your ferry leaves your more likely going to bend on price.

keefg

Eoghan25 wrote: »

thanx for all the posts and thanx for the offer niceirishfella but im not too sure how i will be fixed next week. Just in relation to been over there face to face i would looked at this the opposite way, the dealer has a fair idea you flown over most likely have got a ferry booked for going home. Youve organised your sterling etc. Your going be under pressure for time and your sitting there trying to break this fella down on price watching the clock. The pressure on you more so than him considering the organisation you have to put into it. I take your point though its very tempting for dealer knowing he can get sale and cash on the day and its sitting there in his face but from haggling persepective a smart enough dealer could use it to push his price. Even if you stay over you still got limited time to get agreed priceand if comes to stage you got a few hours to your ferry leaves your more likely going to bend on price.

With the choice of dealers available you do not have to worry about being under pressure.

Look at it another way......you find a nice car for let's say 20k and before you go over you haggle the dealer down to 18k......you change up your money, fly over and have your ferry booked.

As you think you only have one car to view (as you think it is a done deal) there's nothing stopping the dealer to say "Nope, the selling price is 20k, take it or leave it".

Then you will be under pressure.

Regardless of where you are buying a car always dig out a few to choose from and don't be afraid to walk away if the price isn't right (for you).

-Chris-

Eoghan25 wrote: »

thanx for all the posts and thanx for the offer niceirishfella but im not too sure how i will be fixed next week. Just in relation to been over there face to face i would looked at this the opposite way, the dealer has a fair idea you flown over most likely have got a ferry booked for going home. Youve organised your sterling etc. Your going be under pressure for time and your sitting there trying to break this fella down on price watching the clock. The pressure on you more so than him considering the organisation you have to put into it. I take your point though its very tempting for dealer knowing he can get sale and cash on the day and its sitting there in his face but from haggling persepective a smart enough dealer could use it to push his price. Even if you stay over you still got limited time to get agreed priceand if comes to stage you got a few hours to your ferry leaves your more likely going to bend on price.

The lads are right - you're much better off negotiating face-to-face. If you called me to request a discount over the phone I'd either "refuse" (try and get you into the showroom face-to-face) or if really pushed I'd give you a minimal, crappy, generic discount.

You'd be surprised how often I get called asking about pricing and discounts and stuff and then people don't even turn up and keep their appointments.

If you're in front of me you get priority and you get my full attention. I get emotionally invested in selling you a car. If you've been to a few dealers, I get competitive and want to win you off the other dealers.

Go get face-to-face, it's the only way you'll get your deadly deal.

Churchy

The replies on this thread are why most dealers mark their stock up by so much.

You only feel you get a good deal by how much discount you get.
If the goods are overpriced to start with then discount doesnt mean jack.

-Chris-

Churchy wrote: »

The replies on this thread are why most dealers mark their stock up by so much.

You only feel you get a good deal by how much discount you get.
If the goods are overpriced to start with then discount doesnt mean jack.

Only one person has mentioned a specific deal with a discount, and that's for a Volvo that's well overdue for replacement...

Others have made the point of comparing purchase price rather than discount level.

Most dealers build in a certain amount of margin so that the customer can negotiate what they feel is a good deal while selling the car for a reasonable price.
You can't price a car too high nowadays, the internet makes it too easy to spot an overpriced car.
You can't allow a gigantic discount, it says you were trying to rip the customer off in the first place and it removes value from the car.

niceirishfella

keefg wrote: »

Regardless of where you are buying a car always dig out a few to choose from and don't be afraid to walk away if the price isn't right (for you).

+1

Its like this.......dont allow yourself to be under any pressure. TAKE PRESSURE OUT OF THE EQUATION.
What you do is you identify up to 6 motors in a specifiy city or near a certain postcode near to where you are flying into........easy to do on autotrader.co.uk.
You go ahead and get the appt's set up. You make sure each seller you visit knows you have appt's with other cars. Take a few days off to over and go around. Dont put yourself under ANY pressure. Dont have a ferry booked, book it on your way back in the car - it may cost a bit more - BUT THE SAVINGS you'll make on the discount will more than cover this. There is ways and means. Make it a Millitary operation!
Also, when you go to see a car - its all about your attitude and body language - befriend the dealer, be his new irish friend............ask him for the best deal telling him you'll need no warranty, he can keep the tax disc, he'll never see you again, cash deal, blah blah blah, show him the bank draft or cash or whatever........also, mull over the car for a bit, hpi it, take it on a long test drive, press every button inside - be happy with it.
He'll know you're serious by witnessing all of this but tell him you also have other appts to see other cars if you cant get the deal you want...........but do it politely and nicely. And if you dont get the deal to suit you're budget, head to your next appt.

Haggle hard........but in a nice way.......always works for me.:)

best of luck........

rgds,
NIF.

JHet

niceirishfella wrote: »

+1

Its like this.......dont allow yourself to be under any pressure. TAKE PRESSURE OUT OF THE EQUATION.
What you do is you identify up to 6 motors in a specifiy city or near a certain postcode near to where you are flying into........easy to do on autotrader.co.uk.
You go ahead and get the appt's set up. You make sure each seller you visit knows you have appt's with other cars. Take a few days off to over and go around. Dont put yourself under ANY pressure. Dont have a ferry booked, book it on your way back in the car - it may cost a bit more - BUT THE SAVINGS you'll make on the discount will more than cover this. There is ways and means. Make it a Millitary operation!
Also, when you go to see a car - its all about your attitude and body language - befriend the dealer, be his new irish friend............ask him for the best deal telling him you'll need no warranty, he can keep the tax disc, he'll never see you again, cash deal, blah blah blah, show him the bank draft or cash or whatever........also, mull over the car for a bit, hpi it, take it on a long test drive, press every button inside - be happy with it.
He'll know you're serious by witnessing all of this but tell him you also have other appts to see other cars if you cant get the deal you want...........but do it politely and nicely. And if you dont get the deal to suit you're budget, head to your next appt.

Haggle hard........but in a nice way.......always works for me.:)

best of luck........

rgds,
NIF.

Hey man, since you seem to have a lot experience in this area, have a couple of quick question for ya. In relation to how you pay:
Q1
Do you ever have problems with dealers who wouldn't accept an irish draft? I've heard it can take a couple of days for a draft to clear in UK. Obviously the dealer would want to keep the car.
Q2
In relation to converting the money, do you use an internet company like xe.com or do you just go down to your local bank. I've found that the difference can range from 400-800 sterling by using one of these interent companies. The only thing that concerns me is that they may not accept such a draft if its from some international bank.
Q3
How much cash do you generally bring? I suppose its dependant on the discount you think you'll get and expenses. Oh and how much are the expenses. I've done some costings of my own but theres always unforseen cost that pop up.

Thanks

niceirishfella

Jhet, you got a pm!

E92

AudiChris wrote: »

Only one person has mentioned a specific deal with a discount, and that's for a Volvo that's well overdue for replacement...

The current Volvo S80 only came out last year though, and is not selling very well at all! If it wasn't for the S40/V50 Volvo wouldn't sell anything here. You wouldn't get 7k off an A4 or A6 diesel, I know that.

-Chris-

E92 wrote: »

The current Volvo S80 only came out last year though, and is not selling very well at all! If it wasn't for the S40/V50 Volvo wouldn't sell anything here. You wouldn't get 7k off an A4 or A6 diesel, I'm know that.

I couldn't think of ANY car that you'd get €7k off of, unless they were €150k+!!

And I didn't even know that the S80 was new, they haven't done enough to it and that's probably why it's dying.

Amazing that they're giving that much discount though, I'm shocked!

JHet

niceirishfella wrote: »

Jhet, you got a pm!

Cheers Man.....;)

E92

AudiChris wrote: »

And I didn't even know that the S80 was new, they haven't done enough to it and that's probably why it's dying.

It's based on the Mondeo. Brand new car. The 2.0 petrol is from the Mondeo(though unlike the Mondeo it is an FFV engine). The 2.0 Diesel is from PSA(also found in the S40/V50). The 5 cylinder engines(i.e. the 2.5T and the D5) are carried over from the old S80 more or less(they've been tweaked a little).

The 3.2 is a very recent design by Volvo, also found in the Land Rover Freelander i6, XC90, and(not for Ireland though) V70.

The V8 is a Yamaha designed unit, also found in V8 Jags and Land Rovers, as well as the XC90.

The 2.0F is only €38k until July 1, a huge amount of car for the money, but probably slower than walking. 0-100 in over 11 seconds isn't too promising I think you'll agree.


And only the diesels have any hope on CO2 emissions come July(the 2.0D and the D5 are in the same VRT/road tax band then actually). I know that a facelifted A6 will be here before July, and a 12% improvement in fuel consumption coming as standard too.

Anan1

AudiChris wrote: »

The lads are right - you're much better off negotiating face-to-face. If you called me to request a discount over the phone I'd either "refuse" (try and get you into the showroom face-to-face) or if really pushed I'd give you a minimal, crappy, generic discount.

You'd be surprised how often I get called asking about pricing and discounts and stuff and then people don't even turn up and keep their appointments.

If you're in front of me you get priority and you get my full attention. I get emotionally invested in selling you a car. If you've been to a few dealers, I get competitive and want to win you off the other dealers.

Go get face-to-face, it's the only way you'll get your deadly deal.

While often true in practice, this is not true in principle. What's important is not where you're standing but how the seller percieves you. Turning up in a showroom is to some extent an indicator of serious intent, but it's only one indicator. With experience, it is quite possible to extract the maximum available discount from most sellers by phone.

drdre

E92 wrote: »

The current Volvo S80 only came out last year though, and is not selling very well at all! If it wasn't for the S40/V50 Volvo wouldn't sell anything here. You wouldn't get 7k off an A4 or A6 diesel, I know that.

I would kind of agree, but on a golf in 05 when i purchased mine i was told through a friend working in VW that 5-6% discount off list if kind of normal.Now i don't know much about car sales but i can tell you one thing that if this is the kind of discounts given eg Volvo and VW then they are making a hell of alot of money.Just look at the bmw show rooms in Ireland they spend millions on the redevelopment of there showrooms.

E92

drdre wrote: »

I would kind of agree, but on a golf in 05 when i purchased mine i was told through a friend working in VW that 5-6% discount off list if kind of normal.Now i don't know much about car sales but i can tell you one thing that if this is the kind of discounts given eg Volvo and VW then they are making a hell of alot of money.Just look at the bmw show rooms in Ireland they spend millions on the redevelopment of there showrooms.

BMW dealers, as with all other makes are spending millions on new showrooms because the manufacturers are telling them on foot of some EU law(I think it's to do with the ending of Block Exemption).

It could be argued that competition is so high these days that dealers will do anything to get a new car sale(though with the amount of people who have bought new cars in recent times I'm not so sure about that). Some of the large dealers haven't been making a lot of money in recent times believe it or not(I suppose it's to do with the showrooms business), so how the small ones are still going is a miracle.

Most cars have a dealer margin of around 10%, whether it's 10% off the pre tax price or the sticker price I don't know though.