Does anyone else find this unusual? (UCD spending)

Steve.Pseudonym

Hey guys, today I came in to UCD for some weekend studying, and for the first time in a while went down to the computer room in arts, and I noticed that all the computers have been replaced. I kind of wondered why, given that the old ones were more than sufficient to run anything that the average student needs. Then I saw that they all have multi-card readers, something which kind of irked me about the standing or "suas" units dotted around arts, I figured that if the university was in such financial trouble and was trying to save money that they wouldn't have included them, since I don't think anyone uses them and every little saving helps.

So I took a looks at the specs on these new computers, and they are as follows:

AMD Athlon 64 4400+ (2.3Ghz)
2048MB RAM
250MB Hard Drive
Geforce 8400 GS 512MB (!!)

Now if you know a little about computers, you may be able to see that the above specs are overkill, IMO major overkill. Exactly what college app requires a geforce graphics card? I'm not saying there isn't one, but I have absolutely no idea what it could be. Of the 250GB HD, less than 10GB is used on each computer. As far as pricing for these units goes, the best information I could find was here from the HP site. From what I can tell UCD ordered the maximum specifications for that particular model, monitor not included. Estimated price of monitor + base unit = €877 ex. VAT, or €1061 inc. VAT. Note that UCD is not exempt from paying VAT. There are 38 computers in this room, so that's €40,318 for this one room. And that's not including the room next to this one.

My question is this: Do you think it's justified for UCD to spend over forty grand on stuff which frankly, we don't need? I don't see the reason for the old computers to be replaced. I don't see the reason for such high specs (lower specs could have almost halved the cost), and I don't see why new monitors were purchased at all, what, were the old ones too slow? As far as I can see, UCD just threw away forty grand of our money, it's no wonder they're in the red.

fatal

I agree with you.
I was slighty taken back when I saw the card readers.Also,windows XP can run quite easily on 1gb of ram.God knows what they were thinking they they decided to put in an extra gig of ram aswell as geforce graphics cards(!!!!!).Unless they are going to increase the amount of diskspace for students,the 250gb hard disks are fairly pointless aswell.All in all,well done UCD for ****ing up yet again

Breezer

UCD don't buy their computers, they rent them through a bank. Also the fact that they're ordering in bulk will reduce the cost substantially. But yes, I agree it's overkill.

Might the computers have software on it that might require those specs? I remember ArcGIS was on all public computers in Trinity so I thought it might be the same o'er thar.

seraphimvc

better than my 6200 :)ah well they cant beat my 8800 which i will get in summer!*price drops please!!*

ye,saw that on the first day,was wondering too!maybe just simply HP sponsored like?and that video card is simply for Vista min requirement i guess

Breezer

seraphimvc wrote: »

and that video card is simply for Vista min requirement i guess

Is Vista officially supported by UCD these days?

gubbie

They replaced all the ones in engineering too. We use these computers a lot, but I think unless you're a postgrad and running bang loads, then you don't really need these. The old ones were sufficient for us... well they did break down all the freaking time... no actually I'd say we needed new ones. The week before we broke up about 20% of the computers in the room were broken

*grumble*

delta_bravo

Theres new ones in the ag building. Went in to use one of them but for some reason there were only about 15 seats for the 30 pcs

Steve.Pseudonym

Breezer wrote: »

UCD don't buy their computers, they rent them through a bank. Also the fact that they're ordering in bulk will reduce the cost substantially. But yes, I agree it's overkill.

Rent them? And through a bank? Wow, I've never heard of that before, I'd imagine that would work out as more expensive in the long run. Where did you hear that?

Breezer

It's called corporate lending, lots of companies do it. I'm not able to discuss it any further online though *disappears mysteriously in a cloud of smoke*

seraphimvc

Breezer wrote: »

Is Vista officially supported by UCD these days?

see the Vista ready mark on the case?sooner or later we will have vista i guess.think of that these new pc will last for 2-3yrs,these requirements are fair deal:eek:

stereoroid

I wonder if whoever specified those PCs is a gamer too? There might be some LAN parties in the pipeline... :pac:

imp

I do know that one of my lecturers has done research using a massive chunk of the computers on the UCD network as a kind of supercomputer over summer breaks, so if they're being used for that sort of thing I don't think its necessarily a complete waste...

Économiste Monétaire

Steve.Pseudonym wrote: »

So I took a looks at the specs on these new computers, and they are as follows:

AMD Athlon 64 4400+ (2.3Ghz)
2048MB RAM
250MB Hard Drive
Geforce 8400 GS 512MB (!!)

You can buy the 8400 GS 512MB for €42, and that is without bulk-buying. They do help with statistical packages. Also, that processor isn't anything to rave about.

However, I do agree with you about the monitors.

Steve.Pseudonym

UCD_Econ wrote: »

You can buy the 8400 GS 512MB for €42, and that is without bulk-buying. They do help with statistical packages. Also, that processor isn't anything to rave about.

However, I do agree with you about the monitors.

Whereas on board graphics cost nothing, and a lower spec processor would be cheaper and not noticeably slower, if of course you're doing what most students do, which is use word and browse the web. My point here is not that they're super computers, it's that the previous computers did the job just fine and I see no reason to replace them. Sure, if some courses require high end computers then by all means provide them, but most do not.

It's not really about the computers themselves, it's about wastefulness. What gets to me is that the university is in debt and they do stuff that wastes money, this being the latest example.

Économiste Monétaire

Steve.Pseudonym wrote: »

Whereas on board graphics cost nothing, and a lower spec processor would be cheaper and not noticeably slower, if of course you're doing what most students do, which is use word and browse the web. My point here is not that they're super computers, it's that the previous computers did the job just fine and I see no reason to replace them. Sure, if some courses require high end computers then by all means provide them, but most do not.

On board graphics do cost something, time (and nerves). There are labs done in both Daedlus and the Arts building (I believe you're talking about the one down the steps from the main entrance?) and it takes on average 4-6 minutes to even load the required application. So both a better processor (2.3 GHZ is less than a computer I bought 5 years ago) and a GPU are nothing revolutionary and were, in my opinion, sorely needed.

My point here is not that they're super computers, it's that the previous computers did the job just fine and I see no reason to replace them. Sure, if some courses require high end computers then by all means provide them, but most do not.

The previous computers did the job of Word just fine but that’s about it. Your course may not use anything other than Word, but some such as Maths and Statistics do. I’ve had a computer freeze in a lab exam because of trying to do something as simple as load a histogram.

It's not really about the computers themselves, it's about wastefulness. What gets to me is that the university is in debt and they do stuff that wastes money, this being the latest example.

Could you link me to something about the quantity of debt that UCD is in, please?

What one person may consider waste, another who utilises the computers for more than Bebo would consider a god send. Spending university money on renovating one’s house is a waste. That money would have been better spent on both computers and library books

But, if they really did spend money on new monitors for reasons other than that the old ones were broken then that was a waste.

Breezer

UCD_Econ wrote: »

Could you link me to something about the quantity of debt that UCD is in, please?

From http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/article3529523.ece:

UCD and Trinity College warn of major funding crisis
Tuesday, March 18, 2008

Ireland's two leading universities are reportedly warning that a funding crisis is undermining the Government's claims to be establishing a top-class knowledge-driven economy.
Reports this morning say UCD and Trinity College have come together to highlight a 33% fall in core funding per student since 1995 and a €25m budget deficit at the country's seven universities.

They also say staff-to-student ratios in competing states like Denmark are four times better than those in Ireland.

The president of UCD, Dr Hugh Brady, and the provost of Trinity College, Dr John Hegarty, say this flies in the face of government rhetoric about a third-level system driving the development of a knowledge society.

Four years ago, the OECD warned that Ireland's universities needed a major increase in funding to compete internationally.

However, Dr Brady and Dr Hegarty say the funding gap has actually been widening rather than getting narrower.

I just found that by Googling; I recently read a similar article, possibly in The Irish Times, that stated that of the 7 universities UCD had the largest debt. I don't subscribe to the online version and I've thrown out the copy by now, but maybe someone else can pull it up.

tywy

Some engineering design programs require decent enough graphics cards too. As has been said before the computers need to be dependable if they're going to have exams on them. Another point is they could have bought high spec at this moment in time so they won't have to replace them for a while. I know in the laptop program in elec engineering we got top of the range laptops and had to keep them for the whole 4 years. (They were Dell though so mine broke after about 18 months :P)

jimi_t

They're pretty much bog-standard specs - a little above the basic office computer. Your calculations are completely off even if they *were* buying the computers (and regardless of VAT) as opposed to renting them as UCD is an educational institution. In any case, there are far more salient points to be made regarding money being thrown away - our computer infastructure is merely being kept in line with european standards, and is one of the few things UCD manage to do half-right.

gerry87

I like the new keyboards, they're quite.

Économiste Monétaire

Breezer wrote: »

From http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/ireland/article3529523.ece:

I just found that by Googling; I recently read a similar article, possibly in The Irish Times, that stated that of the 7 universities UCD had the largest debt. I don't subscribe to the online version and I've thrown out the copy by now, but maybe someone else can pull it up.

That was originally a letter from both Dr Brady and Dr John Hegarty of Trinity College in The Irish Times. However, that is in relation to the 7 Universities and a reduction in funding to student ratio. I was looking for a balance sheet for UCD alone.

Steve.Pseudonym

jimi_t wrote: »

They're pretty much bog-standard specs - a little above the basic office computer.

In all fairness jimi, that's just not true, the basic office computer is far less powerful than our new machines. Also, here's a link to the current recommendations from the NCTE (National Centre for Technology in Education). As you can see our new computers are in or beyond the high end of everything, and are recommended as being "those on which digital music, digital video or high-end graphics are being created/edited." Also, I doubt my figures are nearly so far off as you make out (moot point as it is seeing as UCD is [possibly?] renting the machines).

UCD_Econ wrote:

On board graphics do cost something, time (and nerves). There are labs done in both Daedlus and the Arts building (I believe you're talking about the one down the steps from the main entrance?) and it takes on average 4-6 minutes to even load the required application. So both a better processor (2.3 GHZ is less than a computer I bought 5 years ago) and a GPU are nothing revolutionary and were, in my opinion, sorely needed.

Fair enough if they're useful, I just had the picture in my head of whoever was in charge of getting the new computers just opting for the maximum specs available for the model, just because bigger sounds better (actually they may well have done this). By the way, clock speed isn't that an accurate measure of CPU performance anymore, and as these are dual core 64bit CPUs they're much faster than something with the same clock speed from a few years back.

UCD_Econ wrote:

That was originally a letter from both Dr Brady and Dr John Hegarty of Trinity College in The Irish Times. However, that is in relation to the 7 Universities and a reduction in funding to student ratio. I was looking for a balance sheet for UCD alone.

I really wish I could provide you with that, I'd like to be able to take a look at it too, but as far as I can see UCD has not published this data. As far as I know the only financial data that anyone has gotten out of UCD was information concerning the amount spent on consultants, and that was obtained by one of the staff unions submitting a freedom of information request (link). There was a figure quoted in the University Observer that the university was running an annual deficit of €15 million, but they didn't say how they got that figure. Given that UCD was given a €13.7 million SIF allocation this year, one might conclude that the quoted figure was accurate, and that was an attempt to rectify the situation. Unfortunately you'd have to make a freedom of information request yourself to see accurate details of what's going on in UCD admin, I though about doing it myself, but I found the process too confusing

Ernie Ball

You should make the FOI request. The process is easy: fill out one form and describe (in detail) what you want. Costs €15.

Économiste Monétaire

Steve.Pseudonym wrote: »

Fair enough if they're useful, I just had the picture in my head of whoever was in charge of getting the new computers just opting for the maximum specs available for the model, just because bigger sounds better (actually they may well have done this). By the way, clock speed isn't that an accurate measure of CPU performance anymore, and as these are dual core 64bit CPUs they're much faster than something with the same clock speed from a few years back.

The name you gave for the processor is wrong, if you intended to say it was dual core. AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ is the dual core processor, AMD Athlon 64 4400+ (2.3Ghz) isn't dual core. I got confused and thought you meant they bought single core processors.

I believe that the new editions of Minitab are multi-threaded and if in fact UCD did purchase dual core computers that would help.

I really wish I could provide you with that, I'd like to be able to take a look at it too, but as far as I can see UCD has not published this data. As far as I know the only financial data that anyone has gotten out of UCD was information concerning the amount spent on consultants, and that was obtained by one of the staff unions submitting a freedom of information request (link). There was a figure quoted in the University Observer that the university was running an annual deficit of €15 million, but they didn't say how they got that figure. Given that UCD was given a €13.7 million SIF allocation this year, one might conclude that the quoted figure was accurate, and that was an attempt to rectify the situation. Unfortunately you'd have to make a freedom of information request yourself to see accurate details of what's going on in UCD admin, I though about doing it myself, but I found the process too confusing

If they didn't quote a source then the figure is probably fictitious, but the SIF allocation does give it a level of believability.

I too would like to know how the finances in UCD are allocated. Especially the €1,000 'admin' fees. I noticed one of the candiates in the SU election was running on a mandate of finding that out, maybe he will come through on it :rolleyes:

Red Alert

Word can and does use a lot of memory if you've even a moderately big document.

Also those machines are 64-bit, but I'd bet quite a lot that they're not running Windows XP 64-bit edition.