Plumbing problem

The Waxbill

Hi, can anybody help? I've just moved into a newly built house. when I installed the bathroom ware I discovered there's very little water pressure to the toilets and sinks in the 2 en suite bathrooms upstairs. It's a dormer bungalow and the bathrooms upstairs are fed from a tank in the eaves. Is the problem that the tank isn't high enough above the toilets and sink i.e very little gravity? there's only a trickle of water from the sinks and the cisterns take forever to refill after flushing. Anyone shed any light on this?

Ger.

XJR

I'm not an expert on plumbing but I would have thought it a relatively straightforward problem that could be solved by installing a pump.

jhegarty

Could just be a valve not open fully...

DublinDilbert

You should have more pressure than that!!! as the poster above said make sure all the valves are fully open...

311

It's either the valves or dirt in the pipes.

Or ,by some weird coincidence ,the wrong orifice is in the toilet ballcock and the pipes to the basins are kinked ?

DublinDilbert

Have they ever worked correctly? Sounds like poor water pressure, as so many things are effected...

Had a funny one recently, in my brothers attic conversion, its been converted quite a few years, and one of the taps in the spare bath room never worked correctly.... had a quick look, un-did the fitting underneath it slightly and got a few drips of water so there was water there.... knocked off the water, un-did the pipe, opened up the tap, pushed a screw driver up inside it to free up the plunger.... put the pipe back on and it was like new...

See when you close a tap the plunger is pushed down.. but when its opened it requires water pressure to push the plunger back up again....

JamesM

As you said yourself, I would think that the pressure at the taps depends on the height of the tank above the taps. Unless it's against some building regulations, you could use a mains supply for the toilets - and a shower as well.
Jim.

The Waxbill

Hi and thanks to everyone who replied. I'm only in the house 3 weeks. the pressure downstairs is fine. there actually doesn't seem to be any valves after the tank, at least from what i can see anyway. the pipes go under the floor so i can't see them. i think it could be that the tank is not high enough above the toilets and sink. on the other hand one of the bathrooms is on the other side of the house from the tank. i would have thought there would be enough of a head of pressure built up by the time it reaches that bathroom? could there be an airlock and how would i clear it? if i do have to put on a pump where would i put it, beside the tank?

Ger.

311

The Waxbill wrote: »

Hi and thanks to everyone who replied. I'm only in the house 3 weeks. the pressure downstairs is fine. there actually doesn't seem to be any valves after the tank, at least from what i can see anyway. the pipes go under the floor so i can't see them. i think it could be that the tank is not high enough above the toilets and sink. on the other hand one of the bathrooms is on the other side of the house from the tank. i would have thought there would be enough of a head of pressure built up by the time it reaches that bathroom? could there be an airlock and how would i clear it? if i do have to put on a pump where would i put it, beside the tank?

Ger.

Get a negative head pump ,installing it in the hotpress would be ok.

ircoha

Before u go putting in a pump u need to make sure the pipes are clear.

What sort of insulation was used in the attic: the issues I find most is with a piece of fiberglass falling into tank and then getting sucked into the outlet pipe.

I would suggest u try and 'blow back' the pipe-work in the en-suites by connecting the taps in whbs, via a garden hose to the rising main, from a yard tap or the cold tap in the kitchen . its a 2 man job c/w walki talkies or mobile fones and a few towels.

Have the cisterns full before u do it as u dont want to force the dirt if any into the valves in toilets

Just make sure the overflow from the HWC is over the cold water tank as if u overcook it u will get blow-back via the expansion pipe and u need the water to go into the cold tank.

If u get good flow rates then it is a lack of head issue if not could be kink in pipe.

The Waxbill

Thanks ircoha i'll try your suggestions tomorrow. 311, what's a negative head pump? i don't think i'd put the pump in the hot press as that's downstairs, i thought i'd need the pump downstream of the water tank upstairs? sorry i'm still trying to get to grips with plumbing lol.

Ger.

JamesM

The Waxbill wrote: »

on the other hand one of the bathrooms is on the other side of the house from the tank. i would have thought there would be enough of a head of pressure built up by the time it reaches that bathroom?
Ger.

It's the height of the tank above the taps that will build up pressure not the lateral distance from the tank.
Jim.

311

The Waxbill wrote: »

Thanks ircoha i'll try your suggestions tomorrow. 311, what's a negative head pump? i don't think i'd put the pump in the hot press as that's downstairs, i thought i'd need the pump downstream of the water tank upstairs? sorry i'm still trying to get to grips with plumbing lol.

Ger.

I only mentioned a negative head pump ,because it really sounds like the tank is very low .Your first thing to do would be to locate the tank ,it sounds like the tank might be in the lower part of the apex as oppose to the peak.

Re : Negative head pump
A negative head pump can pump well above the water level ,rather than improve the flow ,it's actually driving the water.

Basically a standard pump can only work if it's pumping water ,no higher than the water level. Gravity determines the water level.

The Waxbill

thanks again guys, i'm starting to get the picture now. i should have explained the situation a bit better though. the house is a bungalow with the upstairs converted into 2 bedrooms with 2 ensuite bathrooms. the tank is actually at one of the gable ends and is around 6/7 feet off the ground (as such as high as it can be). this tank is feeding the 2 bathrooms upstairs. there is another water tank in the eaves/roof space that feeds the bathrooms downstairs (i think). the water pressure is fine in these bathrooms (because of the height?).

Can you explain where i install the negative head pump? is it installed beside the water tank and is it before or after the tank, if you know what i mean?

Ger.

ircoha

the upper tank could be for an open circuit central heating system so check it out. Any pics?

311

The pump must go between the tank and the appliances.

Its going to be akward to install a pump for both hot and cold ,as your bathrooms upstairs are more than likely fed from the nearby tank.

Your hot supply is coming from the hot press ,which is much further away.

There are two options that would work.

Install two seperate single booster pumps ,one for hot ,one for cold.
Or seal your system and install a large pump ,feeding both hot and cold.

ircoha

311 wrote: »

.........as your bathrooms upstairs are more than likely fed from the nearby tank.
....
.

I dont know about this as if this were the case why would the upper tank not just drain down to lower tank via the hot water circuit.

My guess is the upper tank is either for open circuit CH or was not removed when the refurb was done

311

ircoha wrote: »

I dont know about this as if this were the case why would the upper tank not just drain down to lower tank via the hot water circuit.

My guess is the upper tank is either for open circuit CH or was not removed when the refurb was done

There isn't enough water coming into the ensuite ,so it's hard to know really what way it's done.

The builders could well have a heating tank up high ,to prevent pitching. But thats all only heresay ,they may well have done the job right and its something completely different.

hippychippy

Could be just air locked

The Waxbill

Thanks again guys for all your help and suggestions. to be honest i think i'm a bit out of my depth when it comes to pumps and the like. The truth is i only starting tackling the plumbing in my house after a so called plumber made a mess of installing the bathroom ware in my house. unfortunately i had to cut my losses with him and ended up finishing the work myself. however, solving the above problem may be a bit beyond me. it's time to call in the experts, the problem is i don't know any plumbers and i'm very wary after the last guy, he was a total cowboy, honestly you wouldn't believe some of the things he done.

Ger.

hippychippy

I have seen a lot of work after cowboys, I have had to sort out all kinds of messes, I am a carpenter/tiler and I would believe anything that he did.

311

The Waxbill wrote: »

Thanks again guys for all your help and suggestions. to be honest i think i'm a bit out of my depth when it comes to pumps and the like. The truth is i only starting tackling the plumbing in my house after a so called plumber made a mess of installing the bathroom ware in my house. unfortunately i had to cut my losses with him and ended up finishing the work myself. however, solving the above problem may be a bit beyond me. it's time to call in the experts, the problem is i don't know any plumbers and i'm very wary after the last guy, he was a total cowboy, honestly you wouldn't believe some of the things he done.

Ger.

Do you live in Dublin ?

The Waxbill

No, I'm in Co. Clare.

311

The Waxbill wrote: »

No, I'm in Co. Clare.

I was only going to offer to have a look ,maybe give you an idea of what needs to be done.

Not to worry.

The Waxbill

thanks for that, appreciate it.