Celbridge Donaghcumper Development

The Raven.

One of the worst aspects of this development is the proposal to build a new, modern bridge close to Castletown Gates, which would cause considerably more gridlock in the village, destroy the beauty of the main entrance to Castletown House, the finest Palladian house in the country, and pose a threat to the foundations of the protected structures in this area. A new bridge could be built further along the river leading to the Clane Road if necessary.

One would have thought that the downturn in the economy might have put this development on hold, but unfortunately this is not the case. Look at the plans. This greedy developer is pushing ahead at an alarming rate, as if the Celtic tiger had only just begun.

bunyip123

Hi Raven. I've sent in my email anyway in relation to the house getting on the 'protected' register. I also sent the word around to a few friends, who have in turn sent the word on to their family/friends who they think will be interested, so hopefully that will drum up a good few more submissions.

Also, I was just wondering, I want to make sure I get another letter together for when the 'masterplan' thing is submitted for 08/438 - the other bit of the development. Do you know if that is going to be submitted to the council soon?

i thought i had another question but i can't think of it now hehe

bunyip123

Sorry, am i right in saying the current masterplan on the KCC site is for 08/439 - i am getting myself in a right muddle.

The Raven.

Bunyip, I'm not surprised at anyone getting confused with this development. It seems to be proceeding backwards. The Masterplan should have been submitted first. In an effort to clarify the situation, I have written the following summary of events:
___________________________________________________________

Two separate Planning Applications for the Donaghcumper lands were lodged 18 March 2008:

08/439 = Zone B, (so-called ‘Residential Area’)

08/438 = Zone A, (so-called ‘Town Centre Extension’)

Further Information was requested by KCC on 12 May 2008 on both applications. A time extension for both was granted on request, until 10 February 2009.

The developers submitted Further Information to KCC for Zone B, (08/439) on 1 December 2008. KCC subsequently issued notice to all original objectors to Zone B, inviting further submissions (free), and any other members of the public (with €20 fee). The deadline for these submissions was extended to 23 January 2009.

At the same time as Zone B Further Information was lodged, a Masterplan also appeared, which I understand is being worked on in conjunction with KCC. This Masterplan is for the entire development, including Zone A and Zone B.

Further Information for Zone A (08/438), should arrive from the developers anytime before 10 February 2009.
_________________________________________________________

I hope this is of help. The massive scale of this development is daunting, to say the least. The developers have had lots of time and enough money to employ teams of experts to work on this project, while the people of Celbridge, whose lives it will seriously effect, have limited time and resources to assess all this information in an effort to protect their environment from this wanton destruction.

bunyip123

Thanks Raven, that was really helpful! I will get my letters together now. Its shocking the size of this development! The masterplan is full of such nonsense about how the town squares will promote 'healthy activity'....what??! Promote antisocial behaviour more like.
There is also a line in it that really made me laugh. It said something like 'streets are a most important element of a city's public realm'........since when was Celbridge a city!!
It's sickening how they use all this supposedly trendy wording like 'organic' and 'healthy' etc, just to appear all caring and helpful to residents, when all they want to do is build sub-standard apartments and houses and line their pockets.

The Raven.

You have some very valid points there, Bunyip. The scale of the proposed development is overwhelming. Some people won't realise this until it is too late. Celbridge is definitely not a city. It is a small town surrounded by sprawling, excessive, residential development. The heart of the town has so far managed to stay in tact, but this development would totally destroy it forever.

Terms like 'organic' and 'healthy activity' are totally hypocritical in this context, and bear no resemblance to the reality of the situation, which is solely designed to generate a profit for the developers. If they cared at all for the local residents, they would do the decent thing and withdraw their plans, and admit their mistake.

However, it would be very foolish to assume that they won't go ahead with it, and that all they want is planning permission to increase the value of the land. One cannot afford to be complacent about it and do nothing.

The Raven.

The Raven. wrote: »

Kildare Co. Council have issued a notice on the following link, inviting submissions regarding the addition of Donaghcumper House to the Record of Protected Structures.

http://www.kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/Planning/ProtectedStructures/Donaghcumper/

Donaghcumper House is situated in the middle of the proposed development, as the map shows, and is a very important Celbridge heritage structure. In light of the proposed development, it is vital that this beautiful house and its curtilage are preserved by declaring it a protected structure on the RPS. A show of strength in support of this addition is much needed, especially from the people of Celbridge, as one cannot automatically assume that the decision will be positive if it is left to a few concerned residents etc. against someone who might want it demolished.

The address for submissions is on the newspaper notice in the link.

The deadline is Friday, 16 January 2009.

This is a REMINDER that the deadline for the above is this coming Friday. It is very important that as many people as possible send in submissions supporting the proposal to add Donaghcumper House to the Record of Protected Structures (RPS). They need only be one-liners (unless you wish to write more), and should be addressed to: Senior Executive Officer, Planning Department, Kildare County Council, Áras Chill Dara, Devoy Park, Naas, Co. Kildare. Alternatively, they can be emailed to the address on the link.

In either case don’t forget to add your name and address.

soulsearcher

The planning application in relation to 08/438 has been withdrawn.

The Raven.

The planning application no. 08/438 for a new town extension was 'deemed withdrawn' by Kildare Co. Council because no Further Information was submitted by the developers before the deadline (Tue. 10 Feb.), as requested by the Planning Department. They may submit a new application. There is a possibility that they may submit several smaller applications in piecemeal fashion.

As regards planning application 08/439, the developers were requested to supply 'clarification' of the submitted Further Information. They have 6 months to respond, but they could do this at any time before the deadline: June 2009.

bunyip123

you are so right Raven - We must keep on the ball and make sure we submit objections to any new applications, especially if they come in bits and pieces!

SmellySockies

Is this seriously still going ahead with the recession and all?

Marcus.Aurelius

It's a great pity the developers didn't see fit to have a public consultation. I've been working in Celbridge for the last 3 years, and always thought that the village was far too small for the size of the population in it.

I don't think the proposed site made any sense, they could have much more easily created a decent park out further from the village. We need more amenities in Celbridge, I think it would attract people from Sallins, Clane and Leixlip, perhaps Lucan too if it was sufficiently tasteful. The proposed idea was none of these things, greedy and ambitious and ignorant of the local people's wishes.

The Raven.

Planning Permission has been GRANTED by Kildare Co. Council for Zone B at Donaghcumper, File 08/439. Details are available on KCC Planning website. The grant date is 27/05/2009. People have FOUR WEEKS from that date to appeal to An Bord Pleanala.

The clock is ticking!!

The Raven.

The last day for submitting an appeal to An Bord Pleanala is Tuesday 23rd June 2009.

Puddleduck

The Raven. wrote: »

The last day for submitting an appeal to An Bord Pleanala is Tuesday 23rd June 2009.

What do you do if you object to the plans? Excuse my ignorance on the issue.

No problem with a proposed shopping center, but the last thing we need is more apartment blocks.

The Raven.

Puddleduck wrote: »

What do you do if you object to the plans?

I'm not really sure what you mean.

Basically, after a planning application is submitted to the Co. Council, anyone is entitled to object. If permission is granted, those who objected are entitled to appeal to An Bord Pleanala. If you didn't object in the first instance, you cannot appeal.

No problem with a proposed shopping center, but the last thing we need is more apartment blocks.

I have no problem with a shopping centre as such, but not on the magnificent piece of heritage land of Donaghcumper. There is a proposal for a shopping centre at Collinstown, a short distance from Celbridge. There is also a good possibility of something of that nature at Hazelhatch, if the economy improves. I was told today that Aldi were trying to create a shopping centre also, which would have been much more suitable.

The planning application for a shopping centre at Donaghcumper was withdrawn. Good riddance! It included up to eight-storey apartment blocks mostly, towering over the historic town of Celbridge.

The Raven.

Bad news today! It looks like the nightmare is back !!

New notices have been placed on the Donaghcumper wall on the Dublin Road, and Kate Walsh's gate today, by Devondale developers. They are submitting a new planning application for the following:

'The development will consist of the provision of roads and services infrastructure to facilitate the future development of an urban expansion to Celbridge town centre, set around a new urban street layout...'

This planning application includes the dreaded new vehicular bridge, the foot bridge, and traffic lights etc.

There is nothing on line as yet.

soulsearcher

The nightmare worsens.

Apparently the OPW in conjuction with a Developer propose to build houses close to the Barbara Streisend concert site. The proposed house and possibly other developments would be located on either side of the walk/road from Castletown House to the vehicle entrance close to the M4 Celbridge Interchange.

The Raven.

Regarding developments behind Castletown House, my understanding is the following:

There is a Castletown Local Area plan being put together at present. The draft plan is due in the libraries within the next few weeks.

An 80 page joint submission from the OPW and the private owner of the lands at the back of Castletown House has been submitted to Kildare Co. Council for this plan.

This may include the rezoning of all the lands visible from the car park to the Interchange, possibly for mixed-use development. Since this road has been opened, residents from Celbridge and Leixlip enjoy walking, cycling, and taking in the views of the open green fields along both sides of this road, from the gate at the interchange to the car park.

In return for the rezoning of all these lands, the field at the back of the house, which is not visible from this roadway would be returned to the OPW, together with another plot of land.

While the return of the field at the back of the house is to be welcomed, the loss of all the other demesne lands is too great a price to pay. The end result would be a very depleted Castletown demesne.

It is vital that we insist that our councillors do not rezone these lands, as they did in Donaghcumper. There are several other pockets of land available for zoning without destroying this fabulous amenity. Lets hope common senses prevails, and lessons are learnt from past mistakes.

w@ll3gurl

It's so expensive to appeal to Bord Pleanala though isnt it? Did i read my letter correct and that it costs 230 euro to appeal. I just dont have the funds right now. Am raging because i really *cannot* stand the thoughts of this development and the town being ruined *forever* for the sake of a few useless shops (and all the empty shop units around the greater dublin area ha ha!!!) and more ugly apartments. It would be nice to talk a walk *somewhere* for once and not have to look at stupid concrete dull rubbish architecture - can the developers not leave anything alone???
when i think of the lovely sunny evenings walking in castletown recently, and looking across the river at the lovely view - developers really are low lifes of the lowest order. and as for the councillors who voted for that land to be re-zoned development purpose!!!!! dont get me started :mad: :mad::mad:

right, i really should stop now, will give myself a connery.

but one more thing - everyone badger those new councillors (kevin byrne, catherine murphy and the other fella) make sure you badger them to vote no to the re-zoning of the land near castletown as per earlier post (if you don't agree with it, obviously)

these people are elected and need to hear the views and be reminded constantly. IMHO.

right i'll go now, sorry.

Davidth88

but one more thing - everyone badger those new councillors (kevin byrne, catherine murphy and the other fella) make sure you badger them to vote no to the re-zoning of the land near castletown as per earlier post (if you don't agree with it, obviously)

Kevin is the only councillor who is actually FROM Celbridge he lives on Patricks Park.
If you can't find his e-mail address ( which is widely available ) PM me . He is highly responsive and very approachable.

I spoke to him about both these developments on Tuesday.

Actually he raised an interesting point , there are quite a few local people who are in favour of the new shops etc. Typically these are people who cannot get out and about easily ( ie don't have a car etc )

He did not express a view either pro or anti.

( I am very anti because I would hate the view from Castletown to be ruined )

J-B

The views from that road down to the back of Castletown are absolutely gorgeous, it would be a complete disaster if all the land was re-developed. How could there be any need to redevelop the land in circumstances where there are loads of empty houses/apartments for sale around Celbridge?

Scober11

Build away and get this town working again it needs a face lift and new life.

daheff

dont get me wrong...i'm not in favour of 8 storey apartment blocks overlooking the liffey...but what celbridge really needs is a new town center...and utilising our most precious commodity (the liffey) could breathe new life into celbridge


my understanding of the original plan was to build a new traffic bridge through kate walsh's old house and link that with the dublin road at the new hazelhatch link road at the traffic lights

then build a carpark (which should be free imo) at the outside of the new town centre (which is to be pedestrianised). this gives people access to the town centre and then provides a safe area for people to walk around shopping area & along a proposed prominade along the liffey with areas for cafes /restuarants to have outdoor areas. Also a couple of new footbridges for crossing the liffey will be added. I understand that people are wary of this due to the unsaviour types hanging out on the current one (imo they are there mainly because of the alleyway between the bridge hse/ chinese which obscures them from view) If the new bridges were built in a way that they are open to view and safe then i would be all for them

btw i'm speaking as somebody who has lived in celbridge for about 25 years (since it was a little village) to the monstrosity that it has been allowed to develop into

w@ll3gurl

exactly though, if they turned it into a monstrosity already, what are a bunch of shops and apartments going to do? There are already enough empty houses and apartments on the outskirts of town - Dublin Bus and Irish rail sure can't supply us with more services at this stage.
It was hard enough fighting for the few extra buses we got after Mortons closed.

I'm in Celbridge 30 odd years myself and I just think its really sad how its been changed for the worse by the ill thought out building.

I wouldn't mind so much if I'm honest, if it was a really well designed idea with something really innovative (with the locals *honestly* in mind) - but knowing irish developers its just going to be bland painted concrete shells that are going to look scabby in 5 years - just look around all the regional towns in ireland and the cack design everywhere!

And what will we get, a bunch of UK high street shops like every other 'town centre' in Ireland - how inspiring. Apologies though, I don't want to be smart or sarcastic with people, because it's a fact that some people really do want this development to go ahead and we are all entitled to our opinion. It's just over and over again, we have seen plans for Irish towns that was always going to be 'the next big thing' and it always falls flat on its face and ends up just being like every other place.

anyway, KCC sent out letters today, to those who previously objected - advising us that an appeal has been lodged to An Bord Pleanala and if you want to send in any more submissions / objections to ABP you can do so for 50 euro (if u have already objected etc, to KCC)

madds

I understand Catherine Murphy has lodged an appeal against the decision and also issued a press statement. Local press will have details I am sure.

scheister

i've been hearing aobut this development for ages saw in the paper CLLR murphy was againest but not sure when is in it. Anyone know of a place on line i can view the latest planning permission

ok i found my way around the site but cannot actually view the files. Anyone know what programme i can use to view them

The Raven.

scheister wrote: »

i've been hearing aobut this development for ages saw in the paper CLLR murphy was againest but not sure when is in it. Anyone know of a place on line i can view the latest planning permission

ok i found my way around the site but cannot actually view the files. Anyone know what programme i can use to view them

Scheister, I am glad you brought this up. A new download is required to view the documents. If you click on 'Online Planning Enquiries' on the KCC website, scroll down to the bottom left-hand corner and you will find the download for opening DjVU files. What a stupid place to put it. I rarely look in that part of the webpage. I knew they were these type of files, but I didn't trust other websites. Catherine Murphy pointed to where this was located on the KCC website.

I had no problems with this download, but other people are still having problems getting it to work.

If you have problems after installing the DjVU download, get back to me here, as I am looking into it for other people, successfully in some cases. There are also experts on Boards.ie who are always willing to help.

scheister

thanks raven. had a look on the site as found the download. Is it too much to expect to have to viewable though word or acobat reader. Just reading one of the reports now it seems bit all over the place.

The Raven.

Here is some useful information about this planning application, circulated by the Celbridge Action Alliance.

Donaghcumper

Proposed Road Infrastructure for Town Extension to Celbridge, ref: 09/665.

A new planning application for the above has been lodged with Kildare Co. Council by Devondale Ltd. The proposal is for a new road infrastructure to facilitate (by stages), a high-rise town extension (“new town centre”) for Celbridge on the Donaghcumper lands. The economic recession has not changed the developer’s determination to get planning permission, which may last for ten years.

The application includes three entrances on the Dublin Road, between the Abbey Tavern and the entrance gates of the former Donaghcumper Riding School, which would cause traffic congestion, and would require the demolition of the boundary wall of Donaghcumper demesne. This fine wall is an important feature of the Celbridge approach road. It forms part of the rural character of our historic town.

The proposal includes a major road, which would be clearly visible from the Castletown riverbank walk and from the avenue leading to Castletown House. The proposed major road would run along the Donaghcumper riverbank and would loop around to the Donaghcumper Riding School entrance gates, destroying the existing views and tranquillity of the Castletown riverbank walk. If planning permission is granted, it will become impossible to halt the destruction of this fine landscape, which forms the backdrop for Castletown Demesne, a designated area of international importance.

A new pedestrian bridge over the Liffey is also proposed, located between the late Kate Walsh’s house (Finey House) and Centra (Lynch’s). The narrow entrance between these two buildings has the potential to become a back alley attracting anti-social behaviour.

IMPORTANT!
Devondale’s application also refers to the plan for a road bridge, with a major junction at Castletown Gates. This bridge is not part of this application. However, it is to be linked with the major road described above, and is a central part of a master plan for the area. If this master plan is implemented it would destroy the beautiful setting of Castletown Gates and Christ Church. A major new road and river bridge leading into the narrow roadway between Jassamine House and the Round House, necessitating traffic lights at Castletown Gates, would cause tailbacks on the Main Street, Maynooth Road and Castletown Drive. The historic streetscape and entrance to Castletown would be destroyed forever.

The proposed road and bridge would particularly affect residents of Castletown, Elm Park and the Maynooth Road. The increased traffic generated by the new bridge, including heavy goods vehicles servicing the proposed new town centre, and crossing by Castletown Gates, would greatly hinder traffic entering and exiting Castletown and Elm Park. This would obviously increase the danger for local pedestrians, above all the elderly, school-going children, and, most severely, Castletown residents.

There were over 120 strong objections to the previous application for a proposed high-rise development for Celbridge. Devondale subsequently withdrew their application. If local people wish to prevent the same massive development (by degrees), it is vital that they send a clear message to Kildare County Council that this plan to destroy the historic character of Celbridge is completely unnecessary and unacceptable.

To object, simply write to: The Planning Department, Kildare Co. Council, Áras Cill Dara, Naas, Co. Kildare, before Thursday, July 16th 2009, including the Planning ref. no. 09/665, and the statutory fee of €20. You may wish to refer to the issues we have raised or to others of your choosing. The application can be viewed online on Kildare Co. Council website.