Esat BT throttling users over the limt

Bohrio

jor el wrote: »

Did anyone who has been throttled, and contacted BT, question them on their decision to throttle you at all? BT are in breech of their own terms by doing this, as it clearly states here:

If you exceed either the upload or download limit BT reserve the right to charge you for the transfer of any additional data (at 1 cent per MB including VAT) and also the right to suspend or permanently disconnect your Internet connection.

No mention of restricting the service's speed, only suspending or disconnecting. They also have an obligation to provide a minimum speed of speed/contention. So, for 3M at 24:1, the minimum should be 125kbps. If you've been cut below this then they're breaking the terms again.

Just some info for anyone who'd like to leave BT but are still withing there contract, this might help. They may waive any fees anyway, if you're already costing them money.

Like people have already said... they could have charged or disconnected them when exceeding their usage therefore that thing about contention doesnt make much sense, you even wrote "If you exceed either the upload or download limit BT reserve the right to charge you for the transfer of any additional data (at 1 cent per MB including VAT) and also the right to suspend or permanently disconnect your Internet connection"

and remember, if you read a bit further down those Terms and Conditions it also says "Speeds are not guaranteed"...

exiztone

190GB over is very excessive and would be considered taking advantage of the service. However, I hold that 30GB is far too small a cap. especially with the new 8Mb speeds. I would be content for a while with an 80GB cap. I would feel with that in place I wouldn't have to keep checking every day to see if I'm close to the allowance.

slave1

still throttled today, rang BT support this morning and got through, whoo hoo, anyhows because my stat page was not working last month asked how much I downloaded and they were unable to tell me because we've gone into a new month, hmmm, have to assume I'm around the 100 mark, I've been throttled since the 26th of March and asked when the throttling would be over and was told it would last two weeks but that I was fine so far this month with just 6gig downloaded, how is jazuz name have I downloaded 6gig in 7 days from surfing alone, there must be something wrong somewhere I says to the support guy, I can barely loads boards.ie or the BT site and I've downloaded 6gig, not a hope in hell.
So I asked to hand in my cancellation notice and he could not put me through to cancellations because they do not take incoming calls, they take your number and phone you back within two days, now that's a crock.
Got transferred to Customer Service instead and they asked why I wanted to cancel and I maintain that there must be something wrong with my stats, I'm averaging 40gig since 2005 and am guessing I was 100gig+ in March but simply do not believe I'm 6gig already for pure basic surfing.
I asked to be unthrottled or I was leaving, he asked me to wait and check on the unthrottling and after a few minutes came back and said that because of the level of downloads I was being throttled for all of April.
Good luck chuck, my notice is going in writing tomorrow and going to UTV who are simply another BT

Sqaull20

slave1 wrote: »

Good luck chuck, my notice is going in writing tomorrow and going to UTV who are simply another BT

Why are you going to Utv? they have a 20gb cap

Why dont you go to Smart,Irish Broadband etc who have no cap...

Ask BT about transfering you to Business section before you leave, I transfered yesterday morning with the help of Bond's link to register a business name...

http://www.cro.ie/en/business-registration-business-name.aspx

€20 for no cap

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055265117&page=11

You only have to fill up one Form, then post it and it should be sorted in a week...

Use 02 wireless broadband ( 30 day free trial ) to keep you going...

slave1

Why are you going to Utv? they have a 20gb cap

Going for the unlimited cap option

Why dont you go to Smart,Irish Broadband etc who have no cap...

Smart not available and I want to keep my landline

Ask BT about transfering you to Business section

Too expensive
BT= €40 + Line Rental €25.36 + whatever in calls = €65.36+
Whereas UTV = €23.99 3MB line + unlimited €5.99 + Line Rental €25.36 + whatever in calls = €55.34+

Bohrio

slave1 wrote: »

Going for the unlimited cap option

Just to warn everyone, as you may know, BT resells to UTV, I am sure that they have noticed that some UTV users are also downloading huge amount of gbs per month and have notify them (UTV), I wouldnt be surprised if they decide to do the same to their Top abusers!!! as BT has def told them!

Just so you know!!

Bohrio

slave1 wrote: »

how is jazuz name have I downloaded 6gig in 7 days from surfing alone

The max download rate is around 1 gb per day... if you are unsure give them a call, they can monitor your connection and tell if it was you or not...

slave1

if you are unsure give them a call

It was BT who told me this, I totally disagree, I'm in work until 6 so basic surfing from 6'ish for a couple of hours, more often than not the pc is just turned on and nothing happening, they said their stats page were perfect, no mistakes, I have to totally disagree

slave1

ust to warn everyone, as you may know, BT resells to UTV, I am sure that they have noticed that some UTV users are also downloading huge amount of gbs per month and have notify them (UTV), I wouldnt be surprised if they decide to do the same to their Top abusers!!! as BT has def told them!

Well it's 30gig with BT and there's no way an unlimited download could be considered at this level so at least the unlimited option - for the same money - from BT would have to be higher.

What's probably happening here is prep and laying the foundations for the ongoing 8mg lines and expected downloading capabilities

Bohrio

slave1 wrote: »

It was BT who told me this, I totally disagree, I'm in work until 6 so basic surfing from 6'ish for a couple of hours, more often than not the pc is just turned on and nothing happening, they said their stats page were perfect, no mistakes, I have to totally disagree

Tell them if they can investigate a bit further...

One thing is for sure, if they said they are 100% sure then you should check your computer... they monitor your usage by port id, which is unique to you.

Maybe there is an issue with the computer, as 6 gb in 7 days and if you are saying you only connect 2 hours per day its just not possible.

As them to check your daily downloads, they might need to as their 2nd level to do it.

Also, when you are not using it, switch the modem off, in that way you will have more control over it...

And its true, unlimited is always better then 30 gb! Just wanted to make sure you realized of the possible consecuences, as I am almost sure that UTV will start applying similar restrictions to their top abusers... and if they do, you wont be able to leave them as you would have started a new contract...

Blindpew

I wonder if it's still possible with vista to view web pages with text only displayed. It might save a few bytes. It's really gone to the dogs when a man coming in from work can't browse the internet for a few hours without being throttled. Backwards this country is going with broadband, whilst the rest of the world moves on.

jor el

Bohrio wrote: »

Like people have already said... they could have charged or disconnected them when exceeding their usage therefore that thing about contention doesnt make much sense,

What doesn't make sense? At 24:1 the minimum speed off a 3M line is 125k, it's simple maths. All I said was that restricting the speed was never mentioned in the terms and conditions. BT have changed those terms without notifying the users in question and as such have nullified the contract.

you even wrote "If you exceed either the upload or download limit BT reserve the right to charge you for the transfer of any additional data (at 1 cent per MB including VAT) and also the right to suspend or permanently disconnect your Internet connection"

Yeah, and? Is there a point here?

event wrote:

would you prefer them to realise their mistake and start charging?

Wouldn't bother me.

L31mr0d

back up to speed here today ... woohoo!!! Although its a bit late as i'm getting moved over to my business line tomorrow. Still just a heads up for anyone else being throttled, it took 10 days for my line to go back to normal.

jor el

Bohrio wrote: »

Just to warn everyone, as you may know, BT resells to UTV, I am sure that they have noticed that some UTV users are also downloading huge amount of gbs per month and have notify them (UTV), I wouldnt be surprised if they decide to do the same to their Top abusers!!! as BT has def told them!

Just so you know!!

This gets bandied around a lot, and I've never seen anything concrete to say that UTV are reselling BT broadband. Why would they pay BT for eircom wholesale, they'd just go straight to eircom.

Plus, UTV already charge people for going over the cap. They also offer the option of disconnection when you hit the cap and you can also pay €6 a month for unlimited (limited to 120G peak time and unlimited off-peak). BT's new throttling will be meaningless to UTV customers.

Phlann

Still throttled here too and since Smart have told me they don't actually provide broadband to my area (even though their website tells me they do), I'm investigating other options.

I know this is the wrong thread but there seems to be some people in here who know their stuff so does anybody have any opinion on Magnet? They said they'll give me the same line speed as I'm on with Esat, no contention ratio and 'unlimited' download.

Anybody have any experience with them?

Blindpew

I don't think it would be a good idea to move to another isp at the moment. I'd be inclined to wait untill after the promised speed increases. Caps will probably change and what are now unlimited services may have caps after the promised changes. Wait and see what's on offer in two months time before moving.

Praetor

jor el wrote: »

This gets bandied around a lot, and I've never seen anything concrete to say that UTV are reselling BT broadband. Why would they pay BT for eircom wholesale, they'd just go straight to eircom.

Plus, UTV already charge people for going over the cap. They also offer the option of disconnection when you hit the cap and you can also pay €6 a month for unlimited (limited to 120G peak time and unlimited off-peak). BT's new throttling will be meaningless to UTV customers.

BT do resell to UTV. Its much cheaper for them to let someone else handle everything rather than doing it themselves. If you deal with Eircom Wholesale you need to book your own faults, place your own orders, cease lines, transfers, ect... too messy. You should know that. UTV cannot "Charge" people for going over the cap because there isnt such cap (unlimited cap package), if they charge them is because they believe its broken their fair usage policy.


And that "speeds are not guaranteed" part of the Terms and Conditions has been there for a good few years now. Maybe when you were a BT customer they didnt have it but now they do.

The contention formula you are using cannot be applied here. Even when Eirocm resell to BT their SLA says that ADSL is a rate adaptive product and speeds are not guaranteed, they never consider contention, if you think a bit, maybe, you can figure out why... maybe...

Bohrio

jor el wrote: »

What doesn't make sense? At 24:1 the minimum speed off a 3M line is 125k, it's simple maths.

As I said, makes no sense, BT are throttling their customers to a 128/128 kbps connection... 128 its greater than 125, that its simple maths.

jor el

Bohrio wrote: »

As I said, makes no sense, BT are throttling their customers to a 128/128 kbps connection... 128 its greater than 125, that its simple maths.

You didn't say that the first time, and I said if your speeds are below this, then they are in breech of the contract. The "speeds are not guaranteed" line is used because ADSL speeds can vary. In this case though, BT are deliberately slowing it down, and IMO does not come under the same clause as a line that's incapable of supporting a particular speed.

Fair enough, the speeds are variable, and at 24:1, you could get even less again. I think that actually the variable speeds, and the contention ratios, are a different issue to what's happening here. I just wanted to know if anyone was questioning BT on it. Obviously the fear of them implementing their actual policies (charging) is stopping them.

Praetor wrote:

BT do resell to UTV.

Any proof of this? I've heard it mentioned many times, but never seen any reliable source of information. I know UTV in NI buy from BT, as BT are the wholesale operator there. In this document, from 2003, UTV are complaining about eircom's bitstream pricing. No mention of BT, or whether they buy from them, is made.

Praetor wrote:

UTV cannot "Charge" people for going over the cap because there isnt such cap (unlimited cap package)

They can, and do, charge people for going over the cap on the standard packages. They've been doing this since day one. On the "unlimited" addon, you get unlimited (with fair use) at off-peak times, but are limited to 120G peek.

Praetor wrote:

Even when Eirocm resell to BT their SLA says that ADSL is a rate adaptive product and speeds are not guaranteed, they never consider contention, if you think a bit, maybe, you can figure out why... maybe...

eircom's USO guarantees a minimum speed of 256kbps on all enabled lines.

zilog_jones

jor el wrote: »

Any proof of this? I've heard it mentioned many times, but never seen any reliable source of information. I know UTV in NI buy from BT, as BT are the wholesale operator there. In this document, from 2003, UTV are complaining about eircom's bitstream pricing. No mention of BT, or whether they buy from them, is made.

Whatever they're doing it's not the exact same system as BT Ireland anyway - they use UK IP addresses for starters.

Praetor

Fair enough, the speeds are variable, and at 24:1, you could get even less again. I think that actually the variable speeds, and the contention ratios, are a different issue to what's happening here. I just wanted to know if anyone was questioning BT on it. Obviously the fear of them implementing their actual policies (charging) is stopping them.

That's right. From my point of view BT should have either disconnected or charged customers, but people know this so they dont complaint about being throttled in fear that they might charge them or even disconnect them..

The reason why contention cannot be applied here its because its common for Eircom to overload the capacity of an Exchange and also, Eircom wholesale, on Bitstream and Line Sharing, only covers up to the exchange, the wiring to the customer's house is not part of the agreement, so, in the event of a fault they can perfectly say its not on their SLA, they do this in case the fault is too expensive to repair.

Any proof of this? I've heard it mentioned many times, but never seen any reliable source of information. I know UTV in NI buy from BT, as BT are the wholesale operator there. In this document, from 2003, UTV are complaining about eircom's bitstream pricing. No mention of BT, or whether they buy from them, is made.

Unlike others when I say something its because I know, otherwise I wont talk... BT have even trained UTV's technical Support Stuff as now they have been given the option to book their own faults but that's all.

They can, and do, charge people for going over the cap on the standard packages. They've been doing this since day one. On the "unlimited" addon, you get unlimited (with fair use) at off-peak times, but are limited to 120G peek.

Exactly my point... no cap but Fair usage policy, same as Smart, IBB and most ISP with unlimited cap...

eircom's USO guarantees a minimum speed of 256kbps on all enabled lines.

That is not true, they even have mid-band processes that contemplates speed down to 160 kbps.

I think you are reading it wrong, the way they do it is that they provide the service up to the exchange, and because the service is there, whatever happens after that is not their responsibility (faulty telephone line, long loop, internal wiring). In fact, if an ISP books a fault through Eircom WTM for slow speeds it most likely to be rejected by them with those exact words...

Believe me I have been fighting with Eircom for a few years now and they wont yield... they can't.

irishshogun

Checked my Dsl Limit thing today, says I'm not throttled anymore, yet Dls are still crap 12Kb or less!! This happen to anyone else?

jor el

Praetor wrote: »

That's right. From my point of view BT should have either disconnected or charged customers

That's another point. Some have commented that they believe BT would like to get rid of these heavy downloaders, so as to reduce the strain on the network. If this was the case, why don't they simply disconnect anyone who has hit 100G and be done with it. They're perfectly entitled to do this under their terms. Seems strange (to me) that they haven't cut people off altogether.

Maybe they want to keep the customers, if they can curb the heavy usage, but if someone downloads a lot then they're not going to want to change. They're going to keep pushing the limits to see what they can get away with. I know I would. It's also strange that they don't capitalise on this market by charging a fee for a higher limit. BT already make SFA on the combined broadband and line rental, meaning by far the majority of their money comes from phone calls. You'd think they'd charge as much as they could on the downloads, otherwise it's costing them money.

Praetor

jor el wrote: »

That's another point. Some have commented that they believe BT would like to get rid of these heavy downloaders, so as to reduce the strain on the network. If this was the case, why don't they simply disconnect anyone who has hit 100G and be done with it. They're perfectly entitled to do this under their terms. Seems strange (to me) that they haven't cut people off altogether.

Maybe they want to keep the customers, if they can curb the heavy usage, but if someone downloads a lot then they're not going to want to change. They're going to keep pushing the limits to see what they can get away with. I know I would. It's also strange that they don't capitalise on this market by charging a fee for a higher limit. BT already make SFA on the combined broadband and line rental, meaning by far the majority of their money comes from phone calls. You'd think they'd charge as much as they could on the downloads, otherwise it's costing them money.

100% right! BT makes no money out of Bitstream orders for the first 6 months!

Can you imagine how much money they could have made if they decided to charge all their customers instead????

L31mr0d

jor el wrote: »

otherwise it's costing them money.

this is something people keep saying but i can't figure out how a person who downloads 1MB is costing BT less than a person who downloads a 1GB. Does BT have to pay someone for how much traffic goes through their switchs?

ardmacha

this is something people keep saying but i can't figure out how a person who downloads 1MB is costing BT less than a person who downloads a 1GB. Does BT have to pay someone for how much traffic goes through their switchs?

Well a given backbone capacity could support 1000 customers downloading 1MB or one customer downloading 1GB. Go figure.

Bohrio

L31mr0d wrote: »

this is something people keep saying but i can't figure out how a person who downloads 1MB is costing BT less than a person who downloads a 1GB. Does BT have to pay someone for how much traffic goes through their switchs?

Yes they do. They pay for international bandwidth every year... and its not cheap!

slave1

Plus, UTV already charge people for going over the cap. They also offer the option of disconnection when you hit the cap and you can also pay €6 a month for unlimited (limited to 120G peak time and unlimited off-peak). BT's new throttling will be meaningless to UTV customers.

Any back-up for this "unlimited" limited, could not find same on the UTV website, plus I assume you meant 120BG peak, also what hours are peak and what are off-peak
Still throttled today

vibe666

all these people harping on about how 3mbps with a 30gb cap is more than enough should all be put back on dial up because they obviously have no idea about the many uses for the internet other than checking their email and reading the RTE news website.

If it was more than enough for anyone's needs then the rest of the world wouldn't be using 8mbps, 16mbps, 24mbps, 100mbps and even (trialling) 1Gbps connections.

Internet access as a whole in Ireland is woefully inadequate and needs a real shakeup very soon. it's unavailable in far too many places, too slow, too restrictive and too expensive.

I'm on the BT 3Mbps package because when I got it, there were no other options that were any better. I still have it now because......as a residential customer there are no other options for anything better. If BT offered a better (residential) package than that then I'd be using it already.

just because YOU don't want to move forward into the 21st century the rest of us who do want to do bigger and better things with our internet connections shouldn't have to suffer and lag behind the rest of the world just because some of the broadband users in Ireland don't know what to do with what they have, never mind knowing what they could do if it was better.

Maybe one day you'll catch up with the rest of us. :rolleyes:

Auvers

vibe666 wrote: »

all these people harping on about how 3mbps with a 30gb cap is more than enough should all be put back on dial up because they obviously have no idea about the many uses for the internet other than checking their email and reading the RTE news website.

well said Vibe