ANPR on the way. (Auto Number plate Recognition)

bbability

Just watching Road Wars and its just reminded me to post this...

I read in the Indo a week or two ago that the Gardai will be soon getting ANPR equipment for their vehicles. A tender has been issused to equip 150 vehicles before the end of this year. An interesting quote I read was from the AA saying they welcomed the move but its only 15 years after the equipment was first installed in Police cars in Austrailia.

Interesting times ahead when they get their hands on this piece of kit. Wait until all the fancy number plates have to be thrown in the bin.

maidhc

bbability wrote: »

n interesting quote I read was from the AA saying they welcomed the move but its only 15 years after the equipment was first installed in Police cars in Austrailia.

I thought the AA represented motorists....

Shouldn't they be campaiging for higher speed limits, less enforcment, more sensible traffic laws, etc etc? Or are we gone pure bananas about being PC?

DemonOfTheFall

maidhc wrote: »

less enforcment

What?!

You don't campaign for less enforcement of a law. If the law is not worthy of being enforced you campaign to repeal it or have it changed. Having laws which are not enforced makes a mockery of the legal system and is ridiculous.

Mitch Connor

at a guess i'd say the poster is trolling - looking to get a rise out of the people who post on here who argue that speed limit signs do not always indicate an appropriate or safe speed for the road (be it too high or too low) and those who do not think putting Speed Cameras on Motor Ways and Dual Carraigeways is not the ideal way foward.

astraboy

I think ANPR will be used to detect those driving stolen, uninsured or untaxed cars. If so, about time, anything that makes car thieves lives harder is great.

Guy:Incognito

astraboy wrote: »

I think ANPR will be used to detect those driving stolen, uninsured or untaxed cars. If so, about time, anything that makes car thieves lives harder is great.

Stolen (reported) and untaxed is hgandy enough but I dont think the government have info on whether a car is actually insured or not at the minute do they? Is there any mention of whether they have started getting the details from the companies? It really is a system thats needed.

Anan1

Tauren wrote: »

at a guess i'd say the poster is trolling - looking to get a rise out of the people who post on here who argue that speed limit signs do not always indicate an appropriate or safe speed for the road (be it too high or too low) and those who do not think putting Speed Cameras on Motor Ways and Dual Carraigeways is not the ideal way foward.

??

Mitch Connor

Anan1 wrote: »

??

well, to me, stating they should be campaigning for higher speed limits and less enforcements was a go at some posters on here whose arguments are often portrayed as being that.

I could be wrong and if i am I appologise.

astraboy

Ya correct there is no insurance Database of all companies centrally accessed so thats a while off yet.

DemonOfTheFall

astraboy wrote: »

I think ANPR will be used to detect those driving stolen, uninsured or untaxed cars. If so, about time, anything that makes car thieves lives harder is great.

Governments always push through new surveillance and monitoring systems with vaguely useful excuses like this. Eventually the scope of what it is used for will creep further and further from this and they'll be using it to sting people with average speed over distance etc.

Anan1

Tauren wrote: »

well, to me, stating they should be campaigning for higher speed limits and less enforcements was a go at some posters on here whose arguments are often portrayed as being that.

I could be wrong and if i am I appologise.

My mistake - when you said 'the poster', I thought you were referring to the OP.:)

msg11

ANPR looks really good.

BUT !! Co. Councils can also use the equipment, to tell if you have not payed any parking fines, speeding fines etc...

And get it off you on the spot or take the car.

(Well in the UK anyway).

As for the insurance data base.

When you are stopped, a reg check can tell if the car is insured. So how can the ANPR not tell if it is ?

The real problem is, who is actully insured to drive the car.

I think the answer to this , is a 10 day notice. And on that, the garda really need to start coming down heavy on that notice.

Random

ANPR & cameras in patrol cars ..

Welcome to Irish Road Wars ... Pothole Dodging

Omcd

Read that it will also detect cars with no NCT (if it can see through the tell tale smoke trail)

Omcd

Just thought, will this mean the end of the one months grace for taxing cars ?

ART6

Personally, I have always been uneasy about governments and law inforcement bodies using cameras to watch people, however justified the reasons quoted appear at the time. Politicians like control creep, and you never know where these things are going to lead to. The UK has NPR installed in fixed locations (for congestion charging I believe), so the authorities know where everyone is, where they went to, and when. That is too much data to leave safely in the hands of public bodies and politicians.

Stealdo

ART6 wrote: »

Personally, I have always been uneasy about governments and law inforcement bodies using cameras to watch people, however justified the reasons quoted appear at the time. Politicians like control creep, and you never know where these things are going to lead to. The UK has NPR installed in fixed locations (for congestion charging I believe), so the authorities know where everyone is, where they went to, and when. That is too much data to leave safely in the hands of public bodies and politicians.

This already exists here too - those fancy signs on the Motorways that tell you how long it will take you to reach the airport or the port tunnel use this at two points and calculate the journey time. A very short step to using average speed to catch people speeding, which I cannot understand how anyone can try to put up an argument against. If you don't like the speed limit look to have it changed not ignored.

bcmf

I would be of the belief that it is already here!
A freind of mine (not me) was pulled over by the Traffic Corp jeep one day in traffic.He was crawling thru traffic.The Garda went straight to the point.
"Are you the owner of this car?"
"ehhhhh!!!!! yeah"
"So you have this car x amount of years and you have never taxed it"
"eeeeeeeehhhhhhh................."
"Can you please give me the keys and take whatever you need as we are confiscating your car until you have paid all back taxes and taxed it up to date"
"errrrrr.....how do youo know this?"
"We know this. can you prove differently?"
They took the car.He paid his tax and got his car back after having to pay for the tow.
If you havent paid your car tax look behind you ..............

ednwireland

already here
dublin airport parking system reads your number and when you exit it shows your number (mind it couldnt read all my number plate) uk ha had it for years they also have auto detection for speed even if your driving the other way their traffic cops get an alert in the car that your speeding
mind you my car wont move at the moment so theres no chance of speeding

maidhc

Stealdo wrote: »

This already exists here too - those fancy signs on the Motorways that tell you how long it will take you to reach the airport or the port tunnel use this at two points and calculate the journey time. A very short step to using average speed to catch people speeding, which I cannot understand how anyone can try to put up an argument against. If you don't like the speed limit look to have it changed not ignored.

Yeah, but governments and "road safety" bodies usualy pander to the lowest common denominator in these matters. My point above was not a troll, but merely pointing out the AA should also have issues such as individual freedom and the enjoyment one can get from driving as one of its goals.

The RSA look after safety stuff, they are adequate to be left to the job.

cyclopath2001

maidhc wrote: »

but merely pointing out the AA should also have issues such as individual freedom and the enjoyment one can get from driving as one of its goals.

The AA is not part of the democratic system. Its a company committed to giving value to its shareholders. So called 'members' are merely paying customers. The only time the AA is going to sound off on commuting or road safety matters is if it brings good publicity.

Siding with the pro-speeding lobby would affect its reputation among the more socially-responsibility members of the public who pay for its services.

If you don't agree with road-safety law and its implementation write to your TD.

ART6

Stealdo wrote: »

This already exists here too - those fancy signs on the Motorways that tell you how long it will take you to reach the airport or the port tunnel use this at two points and calculate the journey time. A very short step to using average speed to catch people speeding, which I cannot understand how anyone can try to put up an argument against. If you don't like the speed limit look to have it changed not ignored.

I'm not sure whether you're arguing with me or against me but I have been driving all over the world for 45 years without even getting a parking ticket. I stick to speed limits even if I disagree with them, since they exist and that's that. I don't have a problem in principle with average speed detection since it is fairer than single speed cameras. What concerns me is that government and gardai are heading in the UK direction of recording just too much about individual's movements and activities. That leads to a police state if you ain't careful. I simply don't trust politicians with too much of my personal data. Also, I don't expect the AA (an earlier comment) to defend motorists since they seem to be more interested in supporting those initiatives that attack us lately.

Mods if this is straying too far off the point of the post, I apologise and will accept a slapped wrist:o

astraboy

Dont see why you would need ANPR in a cop car to stop for speeding. All they need to do is follow you and catch you over the limit, your reg does not come into it until you are stopped. For automated average speed systems, yes ANPR is required. But I believe it is being implemented in vehicle first.

I hope there is an initiative to allow this system to catch uninsured drivers. Based on UK figures, uninsured drivers are 9times more likely to be in a crash. Also, the benefits of allowing detection of stolen cars etc is to be applauded.

However, we might see an increase in registration fraud and duplication of numberplates to avoid detection of no tax/insurance, as is seen in the UK.

cyclopath2001

astraboy wrote: »

Dont see why you would need ANPR in a cop car to stop for speeding.

True, but could also be useful for targetting people who've not paid their fines or are driving unaccompanied in a first provisional. Also, the driver's past record of muppetry and offensive tag-lines would be available at the touch of a button.

But, in my opinion, embeded GPS monitoring is the way to go.

Guy:Incognito

bcmf wrote: »

I would be of the belief that it is already here!
A freind of mine (not me) was pulled over by the Traffic Corp jeep one day in traffic.He was crawling thru traffic.The Garda went straight to the point.
"Are you the owner of this car?"
"ehhhhh!!!!! yeah"
"So you have this car x amount of years and you have never taxed it"
"eeeeeeeehhhhhhh................."
"Can you please give me the keys and take whatever you need as we are confiscating your car until you have paid all back taxes and taxed it up to date"
"errrrrr.....how do youo know this?"
"We know this. can you prove differently?"
They took the car.He paid his tax and got his car back after having to pay for the tow.
If you havent paid your car tax look behind you ..............

OR he may have passed them and they noticed no tax disc, ran it in and were told it has no tax/never had tax.

ART6 wrote: »

so the authorities know where everyone is.

No, they no where eveyones cars are, not who's actually in them.

msg11 wrote: »

.

BUT !! Co. Councils can also use the equipment, to tell if you have not payed any parking fines, speeding fines etc...

.

and? that can already be done by someone making a phone call. All this does is cut out the need for someone to spend the time makign a phone call and physically checkign the details.


Either way, just pay you fines and there'll be no problems.:)


Nothing to do with the ANPR system as such , but was watching Road wars last night and a guy was pulled for having illegal plates (font, size etc). It had been logged before as being stopped for the same thing so he was getting done (turned out he was banned in court the previous week so they got a good result). I'd like to see minor stopping items being logged so that the next gard to pull them for the same thing knows they are taking the piss and not bothering to change anything when told. Theres too much of "right go home and chaneg that" going on with no follow up.

maidhc

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

If you don't agree with road-safety law and its implementation write to your TD.

I deal with with "road safety law" so often I can recite s49 like a hail mary. So I do my bit.

I find your comments about inbedded gps absurd, as a society we need less intrusive montioring, not more. Road safety is not so important it should trump all democratic freedoms... the AA claims to be a representative body, my question is "who do they represent"? Cyclopaths?

yayamark

ANPR is here allready on a trial basis. I agree with it been brought in but the average motorist has nothing to worry about.

It checks for tax, ins, stolen and nct i think.

astraboy

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

True, but could also be useful for targetting people who've not paid their fines or are driving unaccompanied in a first provisional. Also, the driver's past record of muppetry and offensive tag-lines would be available at the touch of a button.

Thats a good thing, I therefore agree with it.

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

But, in my opinion, embeded GPS monitoring is the way to go.

But GOOD GRIEF this is a typical cyclopath comment.:rolleyes: Meh, civil liberties, police state, constant monitoring, speed limits not the be all and end all of road safety etc etc etc its all been said already.

Please note: If my tag line is "offensive" then dont post such stupidity in the future and I won't be obliged to quote it. Your a bit obsessed with my signature are ya? Or maybe you just took a shine to me. How cute.

ART6

Stekelly wrote: »

No, they no where eveyones cars are, not who's actually in them.

.

My son received a speeding fine document from a visit to Dublin. To see what would happen he tried the "It might not have been me driving it." excuse. In response he received a photograph of his car with a very clear picture of him driving it. OK, his fault. He was over the speed limit although that is not something he generally does. The point here, surely, is the proliferation of surveillance systems, not just ANPR. I don't want to be under continuous surveillance by the government or the Gardai. No doubt it can reduce crime, motoring offences, and stop people being unkind to old ladies, but I am uncomfortable with the civil liberties implications. I just don't trust politicians.:(

Omcd

yayamark wrote: »

ANPR is here allready on a trial basis.

I suspected that - what else could a car with six ariels suggest ?

Number plate readers are bog standard technology these days, but being put to ever more innovative uses.

Guy:Incognito

ART6 wrote: »

My son received a speeding fine document from a visit to Dublin. To see what would happen he tried the "It might not have been me driving it." excuse. In response he received a photograph of his car with a very clear picture of him driving it. OK, his fault. He was over the speed limit although that is not something he generally does. The point here, surely, is the proliferation of surveillance systems, not just ANPR. I don't want to be under continuous surveillance by the government or the Gardai. No doubt it can reduce crime, motoring offences, and stop people being unkind to old ladies, but I am uncomfortable with the civil liberties implications. I just don't trust politicians.:(

The camera takes a full picture for exactly the reason above. To stop the whole "I dont know who had the car" crap. It's a requirement rather than big brother wantign to watch you. The anpr only reads the reg (clue's in the name) so has no idea who's actually in the car.