ANPR on the way. (Auto Number plate Recognition)

maidhc

Stekelly wrote: »

The camera takes a full picture for exactly the reason above. To stop the whole "I dont know who had the car" crap. It's a requirement rather than big brother wantign to watch you. The anpr only reads the reg (clue's in the name) so has no idea who's actually in the car.

But if you know the registered owner, you can be pretty sure who is driving the car, and if you don't, then you only have to compel the registered owner to disclose this fact (which already exists in legislation). Saying you have "no idea" who is driving the car is patently wrong, you have a very very good idea indeed.

Guy:Incognito

maidhc wrote: »

But if you know the registered owner, you can be pretty sure who is driving the car, and if you don't, then you only have to compel the registered owner to disclose this fact (which already exists in legislation). Saying you have "no idea" who is driving the car is patently wrong, you have a very very good idea indeed.

People try the old "my cousin from the UK was driving" or, a potential buyer was on a test drive etc etc etc. Theres plenty of ways to claim you cant provide driver details. HAvign a picture of the driver rules all that out and makes it very easy to identify the driver.

Oilrig

ANPR is only as good as the data that backs it up.

At the moment that data is seriously below par, for all the reasons mentioned.

Expect "spurious" summons to be the order of the day if its introduced without sorting the underlying issues first.

Guy:Incognito

Oilrig wrote: »

.

Expect "spurious" summons to be the order of the day if its introduced without sorting the underlying issues first.

Can't see why. The gard will get a message in the car to say a car isnt taxed /insured/nct'd, he then stops the driver. If all checks out then everyone goes their seperate ways.

Oilrig

Ste, the ultimate idea of ANPR is that they can set up static cameras ala Gatso and print off the tickets... as seen recently on a bridge over the M12 in NI

Guy:Incognito

Oilrig wrote: »

Ste, the ultimate idea of ANPR is that they can set up static cameras ala Gatso and print off the tickets... as seen recently on a bridge over the M12 in NI

Yes but as with any ultimate goal of an idea, that part is down the line. For the moment it'll be in Garda cars where checks will be done at the roadside. By the time static systems are in place I'd imagine the goal is to have the system up and running for properly checking and verifying all the details.

cyclopath2001

astraboy wrote: »

Meh, civil liberties, police state, constant monitoring, speed limits not the be all and end all of road safety etc etc etc its all been said already.

Nobody should have the civil liberty to kill, endanger or intimidate people. We need effective ways of putting dangerous and anti-social drivers off the road. This cannot be said often enough

Far from being absurd or stupid, GPS monitoring, coupled with number plate recognition will free Garda resources from routine tasks to deal with other unacceptable behaviours.

It's time to get serious about road safety.

maidhc

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Nobody should have the civil liberty to kill, endanger or intimidate people. We need effective ways of putting dangerous and anti-social drivers off the road. This cannot be said often enough

Enough facist dictators have used this "civil liberty to kill" argument so often it should be paid the respect it deserves.

In a democratic society it is recognised that a certain amount of muppetry must pass undetected, as the measures required to completely eliminate such muppetry would destroy the heart of society itself. As things stand people have the freedom to travel anywhere in the country they please undetected and unobserved (bar an equally worrying retention of mobile phone records issue). They can lie and refuse to disclose to others about where they were, and often do so, as is their right.

Sometimes the possibility of saving a few lives (or collecting more taxes) isn't a justification in itself.

Seth Brundle

yayamark wrote: »

ANPR is here allready on a trial basis. I agree with it been brought in but the average motorist has nothing to worry about.

It checks for tax, ins, stolen and nct i think.

YOu are correct about it being here on a trial basis. IIRC two cars have it installed.
I doubt that it can properly check for insurance though given that the Govt have no access to the insurance copany DBs.

astraboy wrote: »

But GOOD GRIEF this is a typical cyclopath comment.:rolleyes: Meh, civil liberties, police state, constant monitoring, speed limits not the be all and end all of road safety etc etc etc its all been said already.

Please note: If my tag line is "offensive" then dont post such stupidity in the future and I won't be obliged to quote it. Your a bit obsessed with my signature are ya? Or maybe you just took a shine to me. How cute.

Will the two of you please take your disagreements elsewhere?

astraboy

kbannon wrote: »

Will the two of you please take your disagreements elsewhere?

Apologies man, the guy is constantly rising me but I've decided to stop replying.

As for ANPR, if it catches uninsured drivers then fair enough. I think it will be some time before the government has access to the insurance DB's, and to effectively run a quick number plate check against insurance I'm sure it would involve setting up a new centralised DB monitored and updated by the insurance companies and the Government. This will be some time away yet.

GTC

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

GPS monitoring, coupled with number plate recognition will free Garda resources from routine tasks to deal with other unacceptable behaviours.

It's time to get serious about road safety.

Allow me the honour of replying to this post.

As a Garda in the Traffic Corps, I know this ANPR will only add to the turmoil already in place. PULSE and DOEHLG do not talk to each other well, and how in God's name are they going to work in small mobile units?

As for road safety, you clearly have a head-in-the-sand attitude instead of a well-informed opinion. Speeding accounts for little over 1% of collisions, but I do agree that excessive speed can increase the mess.

We are not allowed time to perform speed checks, instead hundreds of Traffic cars are wasted on checkpoints where, yes, ROAD TAX, INSURANCE, NCT etc are already checked. (That's funny, what do ANPR detectors do?)

We are now in the sole business of generating revenue while the licensing system churns out yet more useless drivers devoid of courtesy, skill or ability. Everyone blocks the main lane on single lane carriageways and we are forced to siren every single one individually to get by. Thats how ignorant drivers have become.

You want road safety? It all starts with education, and then letting gardaí monitor the real causes of car crashes, dangerous driving, excessive speeding (>30 kph over the limit), drink driving, driving without due care or attention. And I would love to see an adequate progress offence being introduced to hit people who drive at 80 kph in the middle of the road with 5-50 cars behind them for miles with a big hard shoulder beside them. That causes yet more accidents. If people continue driving like pigs then accidents will remain at high rates as per RSA/RTA reports.

Traffic Corps has become so mis-directed and ridiculous I'm applying for promotion so I can get out.

Seth Brundle

astraboy wrote: »

Apologies man, the guy is constantly rising me but I've decided to stop replying.

...and your sig does nothing to provoke that?

GTC wrote: »

Allow me the honour of replying to this post.
<snip>
Traffic Corps has become so mis-directed and ridiculous I'm applying for promotion so I can get out.

Very interesting view. Its a pity that you want out because, based on your posts, you seem to have a fairly level and fair head!

astraboy

GTC wrote: »

Allow me the honour of replying to this post.

As a Garda in the Traffic Corps, I know this ANPR will only add to the turmoil already in place. PULSE and DOEHLG do not talk to each other well, and how in God's name are they going to work in small mobile units?

As for road safety, you clearly have a head-in-the-sand attitude instead of a well-informed opinion. Speeding accounts for little over 1% of collisions, but I do agree that excessive speed can increase the mess.

We are not allowed time to perform speed checks, instead hundreds of Traffic cars are wasted on checkpoints where, yes, ROAD TAX, INSURANCE, NCT etc are already checked. (That's funny, what do ANPR detectors do?)

We are now in the sole business of generating revenue while the licensing system churns out yet more useless drivers devoid of courtesy, skill or ability. Everyone blocks the main lane on single lane carriageways and we are forced to siren every single one individually to get by. Thats how ignorant drivers have become.

You want road safety? It all starts with education, and then letting gardaí monitor the real causes of car crashes, dangerous driving, excessive speeding (>30 kph over the limit), drink driving, driving without due care or attention. And I would love to see an adequate progress offence being introduced to hit people who drive at 80 kph in the middle of the road with 5-50 cars behind them for miles with a big hard shoulder beside them. That causes yet more accidents. If people continue driving like pigs then accidents will remain at high rates as per RSA/RTA reports.

Traffic Corps has become so mis-directed and ridiculous I'm applying for promotion so I can get out.

Thank you!:) Totally agree on education. Why not start educating kids about road safety and driving in school at 14 or 15? They already get sex ed why not drivers ed?!:D

@Kbannon, I'm mearly quoting what the guy said, I found it silly. He comes on here to troll Motors and has no interest in furthering the board or interest in cars. As I said, I won't be replying again. If he wants me to change my sig all he has to do is nicely PM me.

GTC

kbannon wrote: »

Very interesting view. Its a pity that you want out because, based on your posts, you seem to have a fairly level and fair head!

Thanks, but my level and fair head is getting wrecked with reaching targets and coupled with the fact that we are doing zip to improve real road safety is undermining morale.

Promotion is a long and arduous affair, so I'm not out yet, and maybe Traffic will improve when we get rid of the clowns in the officer ranks.

astraboy

GTC wrote: »

Thanks, but my level and fair head is getting wrecked with reaching targets and coupled with the fact that we are doing zip to improve real road safety is undermining morale.

Promotion is a long and arduous affair, so I'm not out yet, and maybe Traffic will improve when we get rid of the clowns in the officer ranks.

I though the Traffic Corps were not "offically" given targets for offenses. How does it work, weekly or monthly targets? It should be about getting a few bad drivers off the roads or to cop themselves on, not lowest common dominator policing with good cops like you treated like a bunch of telesales staff with targets.:mad:

furtzy

GTC wrote: »

We are now in the sole business of generating revenue

Interesting to hear it straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Although I agree proper driver education is important I feel the only way to educate the pig ignorant drivers in this country is with enforcement. Its the only thing they'll understand so ANPR as an additional enformcement tool can only be a good thing can it not?

astraboy

ANPR is a technology and a technology only. Excuse me if I'm being pretentious, but I'm in college studying IS so: Implementing a new technology in an organisation, without making the necessary organisational or business process changes will have no positive effect, and may cause the organisation to be Less efficient.

Basically, the way things are done and how the police enforce the rules, and the processes they follow, need to be changed with the introduction of ANPR. ANPR alone will not save lives.

NBar

Don't mention Targets they keep going up every year and assholes of higher ranks want results so that they can get promoted and they themselves have not got a clue what its like out there

Rovi

furtzy wrote: »

Although I agree proper driver education is important I feel the only way to educate the pig ignorant drivers in this country is with enforcement.

I've been saying it for years and I'll say it again:
Regular re-testing of all drivers is the only thing that will correct the poor driving of the vast majority of people out there.
I'm convinced that most of the bad driving we all see and complain about is as a result of ignorance, not vindictiveness.
The discipline of having to actually study the current RotR and maybe even get a few lessons in order to pass a test would at least ensure that people are up to date with current best practice and driving under current road conditions.
I passed my test getting on for three decades ago (:eek:), and I like to think that I'm a competent and considerate driver, but I wouldn't like to be betting the house that I'd pass the driving test if it was sprung on me this afternoon.

In short, everyone should have to sit a test of some sort in order to renew their license, or to get it back after a ban.

eringobragh

I got nabbed for no tax on that ANPR i reckons ....they'd 7 records for me driving on the public road in the few months i didn't tax it. I said "the car was off the road" :rolleyes: He ran through PULSE and said he wasn't stamping it. So much for that.

furtzy

Rovi wrote: »

I've been saying it for years and I'll say it again:
Regular re-testing of all drivers is the only thing that will correct the poor driving of the vast majority of people out there.
I'm convinced that most of the bad driving we all see and complain about is as a result of ignorance, not vindictiveness.
The discipline of having to actually study the current RotR and maybe even get a few lessons in order to pass a test would at least ensure that people are up to date with current best practice and driving under current road conditions.
I passed my test getting on for three decades ago (:eek:), and I like to think that I'm a competent and considerate driver, but I wouldn't like to be betting the house that I'd pass the driving test if it was sprung on me this afternoon.

In short, everyone should have to sit a test of some sort in order to renew their license, or to get it back after a ban.

The vast majority of bad driving I see every day is vindictiveness. Its the f**k everyone attitude that has people running red lights, overtaking lane hogging, yellow box junction blocking etc etc

eringobragh

Rovi wrote: »

I've been saying it for years and I'll say it again:
Regular re-testing of all drivers is the only thing that will correct the poor driving of the vast majority of people out there.
I'm convinced that most of the bad driving we all see and complain about is as a result of ignorance, not vindictiveness.
The discipline of having to actually study the current RotR and maybe even get a few lessons in order to pass a test would at least ensure that people are up to date with current best practice and driving under current road conditions.
I passed my test getting on for three decades ago (:eek:), and I like to think that I'm a competent and considerate driver, but I wouldn't like to be betting the house that I'd pass the driving test if it was sprung on me this afternoon.

In short, everyone should have to sit a test of some sort in order to renew their license, or to get it back after a ban.

Your kidding yourself if you think that would work . They'd drive what the inspector wanted to see for 20 mins then go back to their ways..

D_murph

GTC wrote: »

Allow me the honour of replying to this post.

As a Garda in the Traffic Corps, I know this ANPR will only add to the turmoil already in place. PULSE and DOEHLG do not talk to each other well, and how in God's name are they going to work in small mobile units?

As for road safety, you clearly have a head-in-the-sand attitude instead of a well-informed opinion. Speeding accounts for little over 1% of collisions, but I do agree that excessive speed can increase the mess.

We are not allowed time to perform speed checks, instead hundreds of Traffic cars are wasted on checkpoints where, yes, ROAD TAX, INSURANCE, NCT etc are already checked. (That's funny, what do ANPR detectors do?)

We are now in the sole business of generating revenue while the licensing system churns out yet more useless drivers devoid of courtesy, skill or ability. Everyone blocks the main lane on single lane carriageways and we are forced to siren every single one individually to get by. Thats how ignorant drivers have become.

You want road safety? It all starts with education, and then letting gardaí monitor the real causes of car crashes, dangerous driving, excessive speeding (>30 kph over the limit), drink driving, driving without due care or attention. And I would love to see an adequate progress offence being introduced to hit people who drive at 80 kph in the middle of the road with 5-50 cars behind them for miles with a big hard shoulder beside them. That causes yet more accidents. If people continue driving like pigs then accidents will remain at high rates as per RSA/RTA reports.

Traffic Corps has become so mis-directed and ridiculous I'm applying for promotion so I can get out.

great post :cool: bravo!!!!!

unfortunately the people with their heads in the sand will probably not be able to change their views, even after having it spelled out for them like that. just the kind of ignorance you described that happens on the roads too :rolleyes:.

i would especially agree with the introduction of an adequate progress offence which would target those 80kph road hogs on single lane carriageways or on the right lanes ot dual carriageways/motorways that let a funeral cortege build up behind them while they potter along bllissfully unaware.

unaware being the key word here. lack of awareness is a major cause of accidents id imagine. be it from fatigue or drink, drugs or just the ignorant "im paying for the road so ill decide how fast everyone behind me will drive too," attitude that i see every day.

you will get those that say that slow drivers "do not force people to overtake them dangerously", which technically is true but human nature will cause accidents eventually when someone who is in a hurry will take a risk after being stuck behind someone like this for a few miles, get pi$$ed off and go for it.

theres no excuse for not pulling over and letting someone pass, i do it when necessary all the time, (if even as seldom as is required ).

real world events and the theories of uninformed people seldom mix anyway :rolleyes:.

ANPR would be great if it got the uninsured drivers and stolen cars etc, off the road but if it gets taken too far, its just going to result in another method for big brother to monitor our movements which is a breach of privacy IMO, even if you have nothing to hide :mad:

cyclopath2001

D_murph wrote: »

i would especially agree with the introduction of an adequate progress offence...ANPR would be great if it got the uninsured drivers and stolen cars etc, off the road but if it gets taken too far, its just going to result in another method for big brother to monitor our movements which is a breach of privacy IMO, even if you have nothing to hide :mad:

What you're really saying is that you want measures to be taken to put other people off the road but you don't want your own actions scrutinised. The public road is a public place. You have no right to privacy there. Thousands of people are being killed and injured. Many more fear for their own safety, even when crossing the road, or just don't drive anymore because of intimidation. Security measures are needed.

Most drivers rate their own ability as 'above average'. Once you realise that you yourself are as much part of the problem as anyone else, then we might all make some progress.

craichoe

For a system to be improved upon, it needs to work in the first place. At the moment the government is massaging statistics and demonising speed as a cause of road deaths.

There will be accidents on the road, that will happen no matter what you do, no matter how many lessons someone takes or fines you issue them. Hell, in the Energy industry e.g. a power plant, where everyone is professionally qualified, trained and has to adhere to stricts procedure you will still see a sign outside the building saying

"X amount of accident free days"

For ANPR to work, they need a suitable backend database, the data in pulse is bad and the system looks like its a pain to work with. Existing legislation needs to be enforced properly first. A camera will never replace a roadside cop.

IMO, implementing ANPR would add another level of complexity to an already failing system.

We need to start educating and fixing it for further generations as we cannot retroactively apply the required education to the people that are already on the roads. No amount of NRA ads with young girls covered in blood is going to improve someones driving.

D_murph

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

What you're really saying is that you want measures to be taken to put other people off the road but you don't want your own actions scrutinised. The public road is a public place. You have no right to privacy there. Thousands of people are being killed and injured. Many more fear for their own safety, even when crossing the road, or just don't drive anymore because of intimidation. Security measures are needed.

Most drivers rate their own ability as 'above average'. Once you realise that you yourself are as much part of the problem as anyone else, then we might all make some progress.

sigh :rolleyes:........ no matter how well i try to word it, theres always one.........

ill try again .

uninsured drivers, drunk drivers, drivers on a suspended licence or reported stolen cars should be the main target of the new ANPR system, if it works, which is questionable indeed after what GTC said in his earlier post. i have no problem with that but if you are doing nothing wrong then you shouldnt have a problem but i still dont like the thought of someone basically watching over my shoulder at what im doing either.

im driving 10 years now and im sure there are plenty others on here that are doing so much longer than that but i have killed nor hurt anyone.

i did have a few minor bumps when i was learning a good while back but i paid for them myself and i am a much better driver for having had them because we all learn more from our mistakes than when nothing goes wrong.

that and my car is always taxed and insured and well roadworthy seeing as how its only a year old with low mileage so i would have to say, no i am not part of the problem.

i see plenty stupid drivers every day on roads who cant keep lane discipline at even how slow they drive on roundabouts and even on some dual carriageways.

people who decide to overtake on dual carriageways when you are in the process of overtaking them, idiots who cant be bothered to look first basically :rolleyes:.

dangerous overtaking,

pulling out in front of oncoming traffic at junctions when clearly theres no time to do so safely.

the list is as long as my arm but im not going to bore everyone with what they already know except to say that i do not do stupid dangerous things like these when im driving.

anyway, the topic is about ANPR and not me or trying to get a rise out of me either just because youre sore after an actual Garda Traffic Corps officer with experience in road safety came on here and ruined your little dream world where speeding is the biggest cause of accidents............

galwaytt

yayamark wrote: »

ANPR is here allready on a trial basis. I agree with it been brought in but the average motorist has nothing to worry about.

It checks for tax, ins, stolen and nct i think.

No, it doesn't - it cannot check for insurance, and I believe it cannot check for NCT, either. This I know, as 4 months after buying taxing my car, the NCT system is still showing the owner from 2006 on their system...........
.....actually, if that's the case - Roll on ANPR !!

maidhc

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

What you're really saying is that you want measures to be taken to put other people off the road but you don't want your own actions scrutinised. The public road is a public place. You have no right to privacy there. Thousands of people are being killed and injured. Many more fear for their own safety, even when crossing the road, or just don't drive anymore because of intimidation. Security measures are needed.

He didn't say that! Uninsured drivers ARE a problem, but one that can be solved without the need for machines that go bing.

As you say "Many more fear for their own safety, even when crossing the road, or just don't drive anymore because of intimidation.". This is called hysteria, or the fear of fear, and such people just need to get over themselves and have a bit of backbone. It does not call for a police state.

And I am glad to tell you people do have a right to privacy, albeit to a reduced degree, in public places. For instance a woman (or even man) has a right not to be observed (or stalked) every day coming home from work. It is for the proponents of ANPR to show that its advantages outweigh the individual right to privacy. It is not sufficient to say "we don't care about the consequences, this is fancy stuff and might help the fight against x", but unfortunately this is what happens with civil servants are blinded by OEMs sales pitch for fancy gear.

galwaytt

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

What you're really saying is that you want measures to be taken to put other people off the road but you don't want your own actions scrutinised. The public road is a public place. You have no right to privacy there. Thousands of people are being killed and injured. Many more fear for their own safety, even when crossing the road, or just don't drive anymore because of intimidation. Security measures are needed.

Most drivers rate their own ability as 'above average'. Once you realise that you yourself are as much part of the problem as anyone else, then we might all make some progress.

What he's saying we're entitled to privacy, full-stop. Whether it's on the road, car park or footpath, is irrelevant. We are fully entitled to our privacy unless specifically enquired upon by a Garda etc., or on foot of having committed an offence.

And lose the 'thousands' killed drama - that's up there with the myth of 'speed kills'. Speed does no such thing. Stupidity, poor driving standards, drink (and now drug, too) influence, are the prime contributors to road accidents.

What we need are sensible laws, well enforced. Not a horse**** system of punitive or severe laws, barely enforced. The drink/drive one being the easiest to target.

WooHoo, XX number of people arrested for drink driving over a Bank Holiday w/end. What does that prove? It proves you didn't get the XXXX number, that's all, who got away with it.............and we all know people who, the morning after, are still 'ripe' from the day before.

Same with speeding: XXX no of speeders caught in month/year. Lets see those figures, where they were speeding, and by what amount. Then I'll bet you find the majority were the usual 'fish-in-a-barrel' job, and a great number of marginal ones, and a whole bunch of inappropriate speed limits in the first place. Subtract those, and the major driver of the policy in the first place - revenue generation - and you'll find the speeding drivers of which they boast to try and catch - flagrant -.............will only be a small %. This is the case everywhere, and the Australians can prove it. Enforcement, enforcement, enforcement. And overt, not covert. Covert enforcement of traffic laws is tantamount to admitting that it's a revenue game, pure and simple. That, and not passing laws that effectively cherry-pick, and look good in the headlines on Bank Holiday Monday evening news. Lowering the blood alcohol limit won't increase the level enforcement, even if you make it zero alcohol allowed (which, btw, I actually have no issue with).

Mobile phone use in cars is rampant. We have laws against it. We see people talking - and texting - every day. But where is the enforcement ?
Seat belts -for those accidents that do, inevitably, occur - I have never, ever, seen any enforcement of it.

And then there are the other road users which seem to have zero resonsibility for either their own stupidity/actions, or the effects their's has, on motorists - pedestrians (assuming they are always right), cyclists (appalling, zero respect for safety or law, imho). It is time now, after over 100+ years of motorised transport, that it not be treated as some alien event, and that it is embedded in our lives and societies, and that non-motorists respect the fact that they have a responsibility as much as the guy behind the wheel, to keep the roads safe. To do otherwise is just assanine.