Israel demolishing Bedouin villages

wes

From the Guardian website:

Nomadic Bedouin fight to survive in the village which does not exist

I taught this bit was of particular interest:

"Discriminatory land and planning policies have made it virtually impossible for bedouin to build legally where they live and also exclude them from the state's development plans for the region," HRW said in the report.

It described "discriminatory, exclusionary and punitive policies" and noted that new farms and towns for Jewish Israelis were being built in the area. "The state appears intent on maximising its control over Negev land and increasing the Jewish population in the area for strategic, economic and demographic reasons," it said. In 2005, the Israeli government adopted a $3.6bn (about £1.8bn) plan to bring another 200,000 Israelis to the Negev to ease housing pressure elsewhere.

I have to ask why the EU, the USA (a nation that claims to be a force and justice in the world, while giving billions in military aid to a apartheid state of Israel.), haven't condemned this flagrant and disgusting example of racism? Why no threat of taking away military aid, until the Bedouin are treated fairly and discrimination stopped against them in general? The sheer hypocrisy here is astounding.

It should also be noted that these people, aren't firing rockets at Israel, or suicide bombing Israel. There crime is that they were born the wrong race and are being punished for it.

Also, something else to note, is that Israel is itself engaged in land grabs in East Jerusalem and the West Bank and quite frankly its really a bit much for them to claim that the Bedouin are engaged in land grabs (the Bedouins were there before Zionist took over Palestine and founded Israel in 1948) and some how the Bedouin are the ones stealing land? Which is pretty absurd claim coming from Israel, which steals land as a matter of policy.

Le Burp

Cough B**sh*t typical anti-israel crap... read between the lines maybe you should go and post on a Islamic Extremist site where you belong.

bobbyjoe

Le Burp wrote: »

Cough B**sh*t typical anti-israel crap... read between the lines maybe you should go and post on a Islamic Extremist site where you belong.

Maybe you should post an opinion or a rebuttal or something?

bartholomewbinn

Le Burp wrote: »

Cough B**sh*t typical anti-israel crap... read between the lines maybe you should go and post on a Islamic Extremist site where you belong.

Why are you coughing? Are you ill?

wes

Le Burp wrote: »

Cough B**sh*t typical anti-israel crap... read between the lines maybe you should go and post on a Islamic Extremist site where you belong.

Care to refute what is happening to the Bedouin? Is there any justification for the destruction of there homes? The Bedouin are citizens of Israel and are clearly receiving unfair treatment at the hands of the state, due to there race.

McArmalite

wes wrote: »

From the Guardian website:

Nomadic Bedouin fight to survive in the village which does not exist

I taught this bit was of particular interest:

I have to ask why the EU, the USA (a nation that claims to be a force and justice in the world, while giving billions in military aid to a apartheid state of Israel.), haven't condemned this flagrant and disgusting example of racism? Why no threat of taking away military aid, until the Bedouin are treated fairly and discrimination stopped against them in general? The sheer hypocrisy here is astounding.

It should also be noted that these people, aren't firing rockets at Israel, or suicide bombing Israel. There crime is that they were born the wrong race and are being punished for it.

Also, something else to note, is that Israel is itself engaged in land grabs in East Jerusalem and the West Bank and quite frankly its really a bit much for them to claim that the Bedouin are engaged in land grabs (the Bedouins were there before Zionist took over Palestine and founded Israel in 1948) and some how the Bedouin are the ones stealing land? Which is pretty absurd claim coming from Israel, which steals land as a matter of policy.

Couldn't agree more with you. Make no mistake about it, the Isreali state/Zionism is nothing other than a nakedly racist philosophy which was created and is sustained by ethnic cleansing and mass murder, it has everything in common with Hitler's Lebensraum ("living space") policies of clearing large areas of Eastern Europe for a 'homeland' for the Aryan race etc. Well, don't mention the Yanks, ( Israel is the FIRST state of America ) the zionist state wouldn't survive for a few weeks without them and their billions of dollars. AS for the EU, it's laughable. I remember a few years ago when the fascist forces of the IDF invaded the West Bank and murdering several hundred Palestinians and destroying schools, hospitals, houses etc paid for by EU monye. And what was the responce of the EU ?? They would 'consider' urging people in the EU to not holiday in the zionist state. FFS, and then these are the people who talk about terrorism ??

Now for the reply from our zionist followers - Antisemitism, Anti Antisemitism, Anti Antisemitism, Anti Antisemitism etc, etc, :rolleyes:

Le Burp

They must be spreading the slurry early this year on one side Mcarmalite wannbe republican pro-plo and pro terrorist joined by wes a muslim who spouts anti-israeli dung day in day out....

Two of ye should get married...remember the muslim way boys are for fun women are for making babies...

I am from there and it is clear you both are pro-jihad pro-terrorist and should be removed from this country...

adios

Rossibaby

israel are the terrorists

i suppose invading lebanon and them defending themselves make them terrorists too ya??

ye are america's little play thing,the only country to vote consistently to keep americas embargo in place on cuba...i mean your 'country' is a joke and as it associates with the biggest terrorists in the world the usa,it doesnt exactly have the right and shouldnt have the arrogance to call palestinians terrorists.

hamas offered a deal teh otehr day,for both sides to stop killing civilians and only hit military targets.what was israels responce to this??''sure they attacked civilians last week''...what a utterly stupid responce to a possibly brilliant future deal.history will show israel and the usa for what they are.imperialism will nto be tolerated and i commend anyone who stands in defence of their people to fight it

McArmalite

Le Burp wrote: »

They must be spreading the slurry early this year on one side Mcarmalite wannbe republican pro-plo and pro terrorist joined by wes a muslim who spouts anti-israeli dung day in day out....

Two of ye should get married...remember the muslim way boys are for fun women are for making babies...

I am from there and it is clear you both are pro-jihad pro-terrorist and should be removed from this country...

adios

Typical racist/fascist comments from undoubtedly the most reviled state by the vast majority of ordinary people on the planet. Your worse than the South Africans were ever during apartheid - but guess who was the only state on the planet to sell the South Africans weapons - poor little Israel ofcourse. And then their the ones who talk about terrorism ? I suppose the Irish are a bunch of dirty, thick, drunken sub humans also. And then the zionists and their apologists claim that they and poor little Israel are the ones discriminated against ??

Could the mods remove this fascist rubbish.

wes

Le Burp wrote: »

They must be spreading the slurry early this year on one side Mcarmalite wannbe republican pro-plo and pro terrorist joined by wes a muslim who spouts anti-israeli dung day in day out....

Two of ye should get married...remember the muslim way boys are for fun women are for making babies...

I am from there and it is clear you both are pro-jihad pro-terrorist and should be removed from this country...

adios

Care to address any points raised by the article? Why shouldn't the Bedouin have equal rights? Nothing you have said seems to address the topic at hand in anyway shape or form.

Can you prove that the Bedouin have engaged in terrorism against Israel? Btw, how is supporting equal rights for a minority in Israel (people who are citizens and not all Bedouin are Muslim, some are Druze if I remember correctly), pro-Jihad? Your assertions are rather ridiculous all round.

The Saint

wes wrote: »

Care to address any points raised by the article? Why shouldn't the Bedouin have equal rights? Nothing you have said seems to address the topic at hand in anyway shape or form.

Can you prove that the Bedouin have engaged in terrorism against Israel? Btw, how is supporting equal rights for a minority in Israel (people who are citizens and not all Bedouin are Muslim, some are Druze if I remember correctly), pro-Jihad? Your assertions are rather ridiculous all round.

I think there little point in engaging this person is any sort of dialogue. Smell of troll. If not then I'm worried for their mental well being.

gandalf

I assume you all have reported the offending posts :rolleyes:

The Saint

gandalf wrote: »

I assume you all have reported the offending posts :rolleyes:

Right. Forgot about that function. Done....

marcsignal

McArmalite wrote: »

Now for the reply from our zionist followers - Antisemitism, Anti Antisemitism, Anti Antisemitism, Anti Antisemitism etc, etc, :rolleyes:

I agree McAramalite, woe betide anyone who criticizes Israel. I find the old Anti-Semitism card tedious at this stage. It's like claiming that Native Americans fought European Settlers because of Anti-Whitism or Anti-Europeanism, as opposed to Fear of Dispossession.

Imagine, as a result of the troubles, if the British Army invaded and occupied Cavan or Monaghan in the 80's , removed the local people, and settled northern Protestants, or English people there.

The last time I checked, it was illegal under international law to settle part of your country's population in lands conquered during war.

Chunky Monkey

wes wrote: »

I have to ask why the EU, the USA (a nation that claims to be a force and justice in the world, while giving billions in military aid to a apartheid state of Israel.), haven't condemned this flagrant and disgusting example of racism? Why no threat of taking away military aid, until the Bedouin are treated fairly and discrimination stopped against them in general? The sheer hypocrisy here is astounding.

I'd like to know why the EU aren't saying anything either. Regarding the US, well as usual they'll have their own agenda, a freelance journalist might uncover the truth in ten years time and still be slated as 'sensationalist' in twenty.

wes

Chunky Monkey wrote: »

I'd like to know why the EU aren't saying anything either. Regarding the US, well as usual they'll have their own agenda, a freelance journalist might uncover the truth in ten years time and still be slated as 'sensationalist' in twenty.

I think the EU, could have an effect, which is why this annoys me quite a bit. This issue, should be a lot easier to sort than the main Israel/Palestine conflict. Its basically a simple issue of treating the Bedouin fairly and according equal rights. It would also benefit Israel, as it would show they are a lot more reasonable.

Suff

You Won't hear anything from the EU, IMHO this is due to the fact that anti-semitism (card) have been waved alot by Israel and its supportes within the EU in order to halt any "negative" statments issued to the zionist state.
Remember when Merkel (Germany's PM) visited Israel last month..she stated that Germany will never forget what it did to the Jews and will always try to protect and support Israel. Ok fair enough the Nazies commited horrobles atrocities to the Jews but I don't think today's Germany should be still paying for that! to me it sounds like Germany: "Israel you should stop buliding settelments on the WestBank" Israeli response "Remember the holocaust?!!! " this also occurs when dealing with Spain.
The British Mandate for Palestine (1917 - 1948), helped seed and plaint the Zionist state, the British left after 31 years of occupation due to the increasing violence from a number of Secret Jewish Military Organizations such as Haganah, Stern, Irgun, Palmach and the Unit 101 (info on the groups)

To me it feels like the EU is always been reminded by Israel of how the Jews were treated,...this isn't a healthy relationship as I'm sure one day we will hear of simular statments coming from the palestiniens on how the "world" owes them to all these years of supporting Israel and its racial operations aginst the people of palastine.

Sesshoumaru

I think this thread is a good example of how the Israel/Palestinian conflict polarizes peoples opinions. A thread appears here on Boards about some injustice Israel is perpetuating on victims X Y Z and we get the regulars who post on these threads condemning Israel. But usually not too many comments from the much maligned supporters of Israel.

A thread appears condemning a rocket attack/suicide attack on Israel and we get a few messages of support for Israel from the regular Israel supporters and then almost nothing from the regular condemners of Israel.

Maybe a little hypocrisy from both sides? Maybe we could all just take a step back, take a few deeps breaths before posting in either type of thread? Just my little observation from using Boards.ie for a little while now

On this particular case I would say its fair to condemn the actions of Israel. I haven't the time to research this properly. But just from reading Wes post I think Israel should just leave these tribes people live as they want within the framework of the law. Before anyone gets too hot under the collar about this though. Just remember China has been doing far worse in Tibet and on a far grander scale for just as long. We don't hear much from anyone here about calls for condemnation of China? Not until very very recently anyway.

wes

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

On this particular case I would say its fair to condemn the actions of Israel. I haven't the time to research this properly. But just from reading Wes post I think Israel should just leave these tribes people live as they want within the framework of the law. Before anyone gets too hot under the collar about this though. Just remember China has been doing far worse in Tibet and on a far grander scale for just as long. We don't hear much from anyone here about calls for condemnation of China? Not until very very recently anyway.

Unless this stuff is in the news, no will really say anything. It isn't just China and Israel, doing this sort of thing. The reason the Israel/Palestine conflict tends to be discussed more, is that its on the news fairly regularly.

Tibet on the other hand, hasn't until recently received much media attention, until recently. Still there are other ethnic groups in China in similar situations to the Tibetans, the Inner Mongolians and the Ughurs, haven't received much attention in the media and we don't see many people mention them either consequently.

Also, we have to remember, Israel (and supporters) claim Israel is a Western style democracy in the ME, so when it often doesn't live up to that standard, it tends to get condemned worse than others.

Playboy

99% of the time Israels actions are indenfensible. They claim to be a progressive democratic nation .. their behaviour towards the Palestinians is closer to facism and ethnic cleansing.

Most people on this board dont support Palestinian groups who kill innocent Israeli citizens. They do support Palestinines right to an independent nation and want Israel to retreat behind its 1967 borders and stop its illegal settlements.

I dont think its a matter of supporting one side or another. Its a matter of being able to distinguish right from wrong. Everytime we have a discussion about Israel/Palestine we have the same people condeming the actions of Israel. We also have the same people popping up with straw man arguments and accusations of anti america and anti-semite. These same people dont ever want to discuss the issues at hand because it is blindingly obvious that Israel are in the wrong .. and the UN 90% of the time agrees.

We dont get get threads in here usually with people defending Hamas after a rocket attack or a suicide bomber. But .. we do get threads where people defend Israels bombing of civilians and there repeated illegal settling of the West Bank. But when challenged .. these same people cannot justify morally what Israel are doing.

meditraitor

Playboy wrote: »

99% of the time Israels actions are indenfensible. They claim to be a progressive democratic nation .. their behaviour towards the Palestinians is closer to facism and ethnic cleansing.

Most people on this board dont support Palestinian groups who kill innocent Israeli citizens. They do support Palestinines right to an independent nation and want Israel to retreat behind its 1967 borders and stop its illegal settlements.

I dont think its a matter of supporting one side or another. Its a matter of being able to distinguish right from wrong. Everytime we have a discussion about Israel/Palestine we have the same people condeming the actions of Israel. We also have the same people popping up with straw man arguments and accusations of anti america and anti-semite. These same people dont ever want to discuss the issues at hand because it is blindingly obvious that Israel are in the wrong .. and the UN 90% of the time agrees.

We dont get get threads in here usually with people defending Hamas after a rocket attack or a suicide bomber. But .. we do get threads where people defend Israels bombing of civilians and there repeated illegal settling of the West Bank. But when challenged .. these same people cannot justify morally what Israel are doing.

Excellent post +1

KyussBishop

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Maybe a little hypocrisy from both sides? Maybe we could all just take a step back, take a few deeps breaths before posting in either type of thread? Just my little observation from using Boards.ie for a little while now

Not commenting on the actions of Hamas (or on other injustices around the world) does not make a person a hypocrite if they decide to criticize the actions of Israel.
I'd imagine most people implicitly condemn the actions of Hamas, without having to mention it.

It would only be hypocrisy if people criticized Israel whilst attempting to justify the actions of Hamas (or vice versa).

Manic Moran

As ever, the issue in the OP is not entirely cut and dry. I would imagine that there would be similar issues in Ireland if a group of Travellers sat down one day, said "Sod it. We've had enough of this travelling lifestyle. We'll settle down here on this spot of land (though we don't own it) and build a little hamlet." I think anyone from An Board Pleanala through the county council would have something to say on the issue.

Note how there is territorial disupute between the bedouin. The group focused on in the article thought they had bought land somewhere else, only to discover that a different tribe had laid claim to it, and they were kicked back out again. Few have title to anywhere. This all strikes me as being a bit more complex than simply "Israel beating down on the little guy again"

NTM

bobbyjoe

Manic Moran wrote: »

As ever, the issue in the OP is not entirely cut and dry. I would imagine that there would be similar issues in Ireland if a group of Travellers sat down one day, said "Sod it. We've had enough of this travelling lifestyle. We'll settle down here on this spot of land (though we don't own it) and build a little hamlet." I think anyone from An Board Pleanala through the county council would have something to say on the issue.

Note how there is territorial disupute between the bedouin. The group focused on in the article thought they had bought land somewhere else, only to discover that a different tribe had laid claim to it, and they were kicked back out again. Few have title to anywhere. This all strikes me as being a bit more complex than simply "Israel beating down on the little guy again"

NTM

If travellers or Pat Kenny use land for long enough they have rights to it these guys have been there for generations.

wes

Manic Moran wrote: »

As ever, the issue in the OP is not entirely cut and dry. I would imagine that there would be similar issues in Ireland if a group of Travellers sat down one day, said "Sod it. We've had enough of this travelling lifestyle. We'll settle down here on this spot of land (though we don't own it) and build a little hamlet." I think anyone from An Board Pleanala through the county council would have something to say on the issue.

Note how there is territorial disupute between the bedouin. The group focused on in the article thought they had bought land somewhere else, only to discover that a different tribe had laid claim to it, and they were kicked back out again. Few have title to anywhere. This all strikes me as being a bit more complex than simply "Israel beating down on the little guy again"

NTM

The state of Israel, allows its Jewish citizens to set up shop anywhere in the West Bank/East Jerusalem and provide protection and amenities etc. Why are the Bedouin not afforded the same right within the state of Israel?

Also, if you read the entire article linked, you will see that the places that Israel is offering to expel the Bedouin to, are not up to the same standard, as the settlements it provides to it Jewish citizens. In fact there basically ghetto's. Why does Israel not treat the Bedouin the same as its Jewish citizen once again?

So, really anyway you look at it Israel is in the wrong. What there doing is a simple matter of racism towards the Bedouin. The fact that Zionist settlements of far higher quality are being built in the same area is a pretty clear illustration of Israel utter contempt for the Bedouin.

Nathan Jones

wes wrote: »

The state of Israel, allows its Jewish citizens to set up shop anywhere in the West Bank/East Jerusalem and provide protection and amenities etc. Why are the Bedouin not afforded the same right within the state of Israel?

Also, if you read the entire article linked, you will see that the places that Israel is offering to expel the Bedouin to, are not up to the same standard, as the settlements it provides to it Jewish citizens. In fact there basically ghetto's. Why does Israel not treat the Bedouin the same as its Jewish citizen once again?

So, really anyway you look at it Israel is in the wrong. What there doing is a simple matter of racism towards the Bedouin. The fact that Zionist settlements of far higher quality are being built in the same area is a pretty clear illustration of Israel utter contempt for the Bedouin.

Explain me this how is it that the Israelis are being labelled the facists etc... And Hamas and other groups openly opress their own people,restrict the freedom to speech, kill christians,send suicide bombers into israeli to kill innocent civilians not soliders,fire rockets at civilian area's and murder innocent civilians on both sides.

Also an article from the The Guardian is not fact and has being now to over exaggerate the facts on several occasions like most ant-israel western media.

Although the above is off topic the amount of anti israeli vitrol here is actually racists and proving that most posters here are anti semtic weither the know it or not...

So explain to me when the Israelis send truck loads of free supplies into the gaza strip and then when the final one goes in hamas attacks ??? Hypocrasy at its worst...

This whole thread is one sided and racist to the bone as it seems okay to be anti israeli but if you are anti terrorist you are shot down, I think the people running this site need to look at the indymedia cronnies here and the odd smattering of stormfront posters !

bobbyjoe

Nathan Jones wrote: »

Explain me this how is it that the Israelis are being labelled the facists etc... And Hamas and other groups openly opress their own people,restrict the freedom to speech, kill christians,send suicide bombers into israeli to kill innocent civilians not soliders,fire rockets at civilian area's and murder innocent civilians on both sides.

Also an article from the The Guardian is not fact and has being now to over exaggerate the facts on several occasions like most ant-israel western media.

Although the above is off topic the amount of anti israeli vitrol here is actually racists and proving that most posters here are anti semtic weither the know it or not...

So explain to me when the Israelis send truck loads of free supplies into the gaza strip and then when the final one goes in hamas attacks ??? Hypocrasy at its worst...

This whole thread is one sided and racist to the bone as it seems okay to be anti israeli but if you are anti terrorist you are shot down, I think the people running this site need to look at the indymedia cronnies here and the odd smattering of stormfront posters !

Why don't you quote the racist comments made?

Any critisism of Israel is portrayed as anti-semetic. Also critisism of Israel does not mean one supports Hamas etc.

meditraitor

Nathan Jones wrote: »

This whole thread is one sided and racist to the bone as it seems okay to be anti israeli but if you are anti terrorist you are shot down,!

This is the same thing brother

wes

Nathan Jones wrote: »

Explain me this how is it that the Israelis are being labelled the facists etc... And Hamas and other groups openly opress their own people,restrict the freedom to speech, kill christians,send suicide bombers into israeli to kill innocent civilians not soliders,fire rockets at civilian area's and murder innocent civilians on both sides.

So you have proof that the Bedouin are are doing all the thing you have mentioned above? Last I checked the Bedouin are not doing any of the stuff you mentioned above, no suicided bombing, no rockets firing into Israel etc. The Bedouin are citizens of Israel and simply enough are not being accorded equal rights. How is this the fault of Hamas?

Or is this another straw man that we have all come to know and love from the Zionist apologist camp.

Nathan Jones wrote: »

Also an article from the The Guardian is not fact and has being now to over exaggerate the facts on several occasions like most ant-israel western media.

Western media give Israel a pretty fair shake most of the time. Its just that Israel has a habit of doing pretty horrible things, while claiming to be a democratic western style state.

Anyway, the Guardian article got its information from the Human Rights Watch report.

Nathan Jones wrote: »

Although the above is off topic the amount of anti israeli vitrol here is actually racists and proving that most posters here are anti semtic weither the know it or not...

Wow, an accusation of Anti-semitism. The odd thing is that the Bedouin are semitic as well, so people supporting equal rights for them can hardly be anti-semitic.

If there is any racism here, its Israel treatment of its Bedouin citizens. Why do you ignore the racism direct against them by the state of Israel?

Nathan Jones wrote: »

So explain to me when the Israelis send truck loads of free supplies into the gaza strip and then when the final one goes in hamas attacks ??? Hypocrasy at its worst...

How are the action of Hamas the fault of the Bedouin? Another ridiculous straw man.

Nathan Jones wrote: »

This whole thread is one sided and racist to the bone as it seems okay to be anti israeli but if you are anti terrorist you are shot down, I think the people running this site need to look at the indymedia cronnies here and the odd smattering of stormfront posters !

Can you provide any example of terrorism by the Bedouin? Why do you ignore the racism directed against them by the state of Israel? What does the actions of Hamas have to do with the Bedouin? How is being anti-equal rights for the Bedouin equal to anti-terrorist? Wouldn't being against equal rights for the Bedouin be racist? Isn't equating Hamas to the Bedouin also racist (the only connection between the 2 being race)?

serfboard

I am no defender of Israel, but tbh no-one in the Middle East gives a sh1t about the Bedouin. Just witness the practice of Egyptians in the Sinai building tourist resorts on Bedouin land and then bringing in Arabs from Cairo and other Egyptian cities to work there, reducing the Bedouins to the role of trinket-sellers.

wes

serfboard wrote: »

I am no defender of Israel, but tbh no-one in the Middle East gives a sh1t about the Bedouin. Just witness the practice of Egyptians in the Sinai building tourist resorts on Bedouin land and then bringing in Arabs from Cairo and other Egyptian cities to work there, reducing the Bedouins to the role of trinket-sellers.

True enough.

However, none of those states claim to be Modern Western style democracies. So seeing as Israel claims this (as well as its apologists), I am judging Israel by those standards.

To be fair, almost without exception most ME states are pretty big mess and have horrible governments. However, almost no one calls these states democratic or progressive, only 1 state has that strange honour.