The Cult of Scientology

DinoBot

DaveMcG wrote: »

Jeez DinoBot, a little heavy on the evangelism!

I know, these early mornings

I can almost understand fundamentalists, at least they think they are right. I dont understand people who say "well I don't really believe in god and stuff BUT thank god I'm catholic and not (insert religion here)"

I feel like shaking them !!!

Zamboni

seamus wrote: »

Afaik, the census only recognises "official" religions when tabulating the result.
So people who put down "Jedi" and other such nonsense, get put in the "Not Stated" category when it comes to counting. Afaik, "Atheist" is officially put into the "No Religion" category.

Claiming to be a Jedi is about as nonsensical as being a christian, jew, bag of spuds etc. I never heard of a Jedi beating up a child because they used their left hand to write.

seamus wrote: »

The "Other Stated Religions" category shows the biggest growth, fuelled mostly by Islam - which is now the third biggest religion (4th if you include "No religion") - but Islam stills gets lumped into "Other".

Islam has its own category.
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popnclassbyreligionandnationality2006.htm
So your post claiming that Islam is 'fueling' the Other Stated Religions category is unresearched, ignorant and false.

Tim Robbins

eamon234 wrote: »

Try and join the Church of Scientology with no money and see what happens.

Working around subjective anecdotes is not the way law works unfortunately.

You have to:
1. Get some objective process to establish its an unacceptable organisation and the other Religions are not.
2. Treat Scientology the same as other Religions.

Overheal

I can at least see where Jehova Witnesses are coming from... but Scientologists just make no sense to me.

I have seen all of their recruitment/informative videos and it seems to have nothing to do with religion in the traditional sense: a lot of it has to do with being against psychology. To paraphrase their own material: 'psychologists dont treat you effectively because they value their comfortable government paid jobs too much (since when do psychologist sit on the govt payroll?) so they try and exploit your wealth.'

Im sorry, but scientologists are quacks. And theres nothing scientific about them.

Dades

Zamboni wrote: »

So your post claiming that Islam is 'fueling' the Other Stated Religions category is unresearched, ignorant and false.

I sense your oppression-o-meter needs to be recalibrated.

cavedave

a lot of it has to do with being against psychology. To paraphrase their own material: 'psychologists dont treat you effectively because they value their comfortable government paid jobs too much (since when do psychologist sit on the govt payroll?) so they try and exploit your wealth.'

Im sorry, but scientologists are quacks. And theres nothing scientific about them.

I think they claim diantecs is science*. Not that I have read it. You do not need to eat all of an egg to know its bad. I think their hatred of psychiatry may stem from their founder being decidedly odd.

Just because they are really weird control freaks does not make them wrong about everything however (a stopped clock will eventually be right). There was a psychiatrist on Moncrieff last week who carries out exorcisms and spiritual readings. The idea that he and some of his spiritualist mates can get you locked up for no falsifiable reason is pretty scary.


*edit: it is not

Zillah

Dades wrote: »

I sense your oppression-o-meter needs to be recalibrated.

Haha.

seamus

Zamboni wrote: »

Claiming to be a Jedi is about as nonsensical as being a christian, jew, bag of spuds etc. I never heard of a Jedi beating up a child because they used their left hand to write.

What I mean by "nonsense" is people attempting to be funny. Like voting for Dustin when he's not on the ballot. As much as you seem to dislike religion, you have to agree that there's a huge difference between claiming to be Jedi for the laugh and claiming to be Muslim because you believe in it.

Islam has its own category.
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popnclassbyreligionandnationality2006.htm
So your post claiming that Islam is 'fueling' the Other Stated Religions category is unresearched, ignorant and false.

Missed that
It helps if you go past page 10 of the document :rolleyes:
Although it would appear that of the increase in "Other stated religions", Islam accounts for just over a fifth of that growth. Which is significant, if not "fuelling". Interestingly, "Orthodox" accounts for another fifth of that (10k people). WTF is Orthodox? Judaism?

Sangre

Hopefully the Irish courts will follow the lead of the ECHR courts when it comes to dealing with religions like Scientology and everyone else.

A few of the main principles are that no one is equipped to objectively judge the merits of a religion, from spaghetti monster to Islam. If you accept religious freedom you must accept them all. Protection of belief and practice includes non-belief. While everyone has the right to freedom of conscience and religious practice they do not have the right to practice this anywhere or anytime. The right does include the practicing with others in a community (i.e. a church). Your rights can be limited for protection of public order, policy or peace as long as the restriction is proportionate.

In applying these the courts have upheld certain bans on burkas, jilabs etc., in certain circumstances. Unsurprisingly they don't look favorably on the cults that require money, exclusion from friends/relatives and systematic brainwashing.

eezarthegreat

DinoBot wrote: »

You say you dont really practice much nowadays, so you really dont have faith. So whats your fear of having no faith at all ? your almost there.
Would you rather have "faith" in something you dont believe in or just dont bother thinking about too much rather than having to engage your brain ?

At the end of the day you say you would rather be catholic, but by the sounds of it your catholic by birth and not choice.
Do you think that you are so important that you just happened to be born in the one true faith, god must love you :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well actually I DO have faith, I don't practice as much as I used to for many reasons-you begin to question it all.

But yes, As I have said, better to have faith then to have nothing

As for scientology, yes, without cash you are useless to them, If you check out youtube you can find ACTUAL testimonies from ex members and they say it all really(they are under oath), and also read into it you will see that it's fooking garbage. My buddy used to joke about how crazy they were until they started following him and everything. He rang the gardai and according to them they needed proof but he was terrified so couldn't get any.

You have to feel sorry for the weak and vunerable that fall for scietology, then they live in fear and become swamped in danger so they are forced to stay and try to improve their circumstances.

I suppose in the end I wouldn't wish harm on any of the members as there is sympathy to be handed out and by the bucket, but, without word spreading and people pushing and being firm it won't change anything

Overheal

eezarthegreat wrote: »

Well actually I DO have faith, I don't practice as much as I used to for many reasons-you begin to question it all.

But yes, As I have said, better to have faith then to have nothing

Suddenly Atheists dont have Faith in anything?

elegant_hobo

Its officially recognised as a business in Ireland and most other European countries, Germany are the only european country to have classified it as a cult, but then again, ya cant blame them for being cautious when a brain washing sect based on the teachings of a maniac comes around.

elegant_hobo

cavedave wrote: »

Cult + Time = Religion



Scientology is exceptionally odd. And my standard for odd is parthenogenesis and public cannibalism once a week. But I think it is worth looking at their beliefs to see where they stand on the scale of viciousness.

To take one issue: Homosexuality
Anglicans: We will have a fight amongst ourselves to decide if we can marry you
Catholics: You can be it you just cannot do it
Scientology: You can be cured of it like we cured various celebrities we wont mention for libel reasons
Islam: We will hang you for it

It is easy to rag on scientology because Xenu has to be the funniest idea for a Devil figure ever but I think it is worth pointing out that the worlds most major religion has more actively harmful actions carried out in its name.

I dont really think thats the issue, its how CoS handles itself is the worrying idea. The €100,000's it takes from its members (thats each by the way, and curiously not its celebrity members who get the 'tech' for free).
Also its 'fair game' policy and its reaction to the splinter religion of ex-members with the same teachings, just without the charge.
It also calculatedly exploited the holocaust to further its anti-phsychiatry ideas.
not to mention the lisa mcpherson death.

so basically, there is a huge difference between a religion (islam) which is a morally defendable religion, albeit with a small extremist group and a cult messing with someones personal faith (in my opinion, one of the most important things in human nature) for financial gain.

lostexpectation

is there detailed page on cos activity in ireland (not anywhere else)

cavedave

The €100,000's it takes from its members (thats each by the way, and curiously not its celebrity members who get the 'tech' for free).

Many evangelical churches take 10% of participants income.

Also its 'fair game' policy and its reaction to the splinter religion of ex-members with the same teachings, just without the charge.

Try start a sect of islam and see where the apostasy gets you. One parody passage got Rushdie a death sentence so making drastic changes is unlikely to be appreciated.

It also calculatedly exploited the holocaust to further its anti-phsychiatry ideas.

There is a strong holocaust denial streak in islam.

not to mention the lisa mcpherson death.

From wikipedia "Following her death, the Church of Scientology was indicted on two felony charges, "abuse and/or neglect of a disabled adult and practicing medicine without a license." but many people have died due to irresponsible behaviour of their carers belonged to other religious groups.

elegant_hobo

so basically, there is a huge difference between a religion (islam) which is a morally defendable religion, albeit with a small extremist group and a cult messing with someones personal faith (in my opinion, one of the most important things in human nature) for financial gain.

So this huge difference to islam or christianity? If it is not denying the holocaust, taking money off people, occasionally killing people in your care and not being overly happy with people criticising your teachings what is it?

Dades

I'm not defending either, but there is a huge ratio of Muslims compared to Scientologists. You could say similar negative things about any group numbered in the hundreds of millions.

The difference is that Scientology seemed be very organised, and ran in a very cynical fashion.

cavedave

You could say similar negative things about any group numbered in the hundreds of millions.

I ran a google fight and it turns out your right.
We do pretty well though.

The difference is that Scientology seemed be very organised, and ran in a very cynical fashion.

The cynicism is very jarring. Particularly around copyright, which they use to supress dissent.

elegant_hobo

lostexpectation wrote: »

is there detailed page on cos activity in ireland (not anywhere else)

not really, mainly because as far as the census was concerned there isnt one scientologist in ireland. there's an independant documentary being made about it at the moment tho, i hear it'll be finished around september

Leman_Russ

So who here is coming on the 10th to Protest?

elegant_hobo

Leman_Russ wrote: »

So who here is coming on the 10th to Protest?

Wgats happenin on the 10yh, its not anythin to do with anonymous is it?

Dades

Dublin info...

http://forums.enturbulation.org/86-europe/dublin-ireland-9133/

Never even met a Scientologist, myself.

death1234567

Dades wrote: »

Never even met a Scientologist, myself.

Me either. I guess I don't know anyone stupid enough to become one.

robindch

Dades wrote: »

Never even met a Scientologist, myself.

Been hassled by them several times, though only once in Ireland. As I said, must be my t-shirts or hairstyle or something.

death1234567

robindch wrote: »

Been hassled by them several times, though only once in Ireland. As I said, must be my t-shirts or hairstyle or something.

Its your thetan levels. These carefully trained scientologists can spot a person with bad thetan levels a mile away. I'd go straight to a local scientology centre and get yourself tested. Note: You may incur a fee for this service.

jill_valentine

I think I generate some sort of Scientologist-attracting aura, because they leap out at me all the damn time. I must look like I'm in dire need of a free stress test. In all seriousness though, they need to be taken seriously. They've got some very, very shady stuff stuck to them.

Peyton Manning

They seem to have upped their recruitment efforts in Belfast lately. Have seen them 3 times in the last few weeks. They set up a table opposite City Hall, equipped with their E-metre stress tester things and a few dozen copies of Hubbards book. Will most likely be out again tomorrow as its usually on Saturdays.