Bertie Ahern to announce his departure date!

CerebralCortex

helvetica wrote: »

....a good taoiseach.

What exactly is your definition of a good Taoiseach? If he was good he would have had integrity.

ballooba

The_Minister wrote: »

Anyone else notice that no Progressive Democrats came to see him off?

Someone had to stay and watch the phones.

Victor

ballooba wrote: »

Someone had to stay and watch the phones.

But surely there more than 2 phones!

Scruff

78 Fianna Failers sitting in the Dáil
78 Fianna Failers sitting in the Dái
If 1 Fianna Failer should accidently fall
There'll be 77 Fianna Failers siting in the Dáil

77 Fianna Failers sitting in the Dáil
etc etc

but not need to go all the way to 0, 50 should be enough

DadaKopf

What exactly is your definition of a good Taoiseach? If he was good he would have had integrity.

I'm the last person to support FF, but in our country you're innocent until proven guilty. I know a tribunal is a different entity. But, while I absolutely believe Bertie has been telling porkies, it's still conceivable that he isn't corrupt. He may have felt that he couldn't admit to just not knowing because that would open him up to political attack, too, so he tried to fabricate an alternate reality. Either way, the way he carried on was absolutely corrosive to Irish political culture and this is unforgivable. The bigger problem, though, is the FF 'machine'. It needs to be dismantled.

I'm glad to see him gone. He's just too cuddly. With Cowen, the big bollox in charge, at least now he might galvanise the opposition. And this could make politics relevant once again. The Dáil might actually grow some teeth and sink them into the bulldog's big, fat face.

r3nu4l

ANXIOUS wrote: »

This is a sad day for ireland. Regardless of what people say he did an untold amount of god for this country. Its quite sad that he didnt get the chance to be presummed innocent until proven guilty. If their was an election tomorrow ff would win by a landslide. It really is a sad day, it really is true ireland are a nation of bugruders, kicking a great man while he is down. Its funny how the mahon trib. leaked documents everytime it came under pressure

^^^Bertie, you old dog, is that you? Or was it a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of FF???? :rolleyes:

It's true that the beginnings of the Celtic Tiger economy were long before Bertie came to power, he was lucky enough to have landed in power just as things were happening and life in Ireland was improving. Unfortunately, the majority of the Irish people couldn't see this and as a result when election time came around they simply voted to keep the status quo. When people are happy they don't want to rock the boat in case their cosy little world of wealth becomes upset. You can't blame them, people look after themselves.

The true test of good Government is the one that survives when times are tough. Ireland hasn't had tough times in many, many years and there are a whole generation of new voters out there who have never known mass unemployment, or massive public sector strikes!

JimiTime

For a long time we have known about the 'indiscrpencies' in Bertie's accounts, yet even when I knew of his dishonesty, I looked at the alternatives and thought, NO. With the exception of Ruari Quinn, there has been no opposition leader I recall that I could see as Taoisach. IMO, anyone who rises to the top in Power sacrifices things like morality, honesty and integrity. It is my view, that the person who 'wants' the power is the person who shouldn't be in power. Is there a solution to this? Probably not. But what it tells me, is that its probably better the devil you know.

Dr Galen

can't say I' sad to see him go. though as a bloke he was pretty alright. have actually had a pint with him and a few FF HQ people years ago.

it can't be denied that he had a big role in Northern Ireland. for that he deserves some praise.

i'm sick hearing about how he built the country up from nothing. The foundations for our recent success started being laid long before Bertie. Its already been mentioned that people like the IDA deserve much more credit than he does! He's presided over a sucession of disasters, health, transport, the housing bubble for example without really ever standing up and being a LEADER, which is his job. His governments have succeeded in farming out responsibility for many government functions whilst still taking the praise for the good things that have happened. spin governement at its best/worst

calahans

This is a great day for democracy! He might need a dig out now he's on his downers again

Zamboni

We're doing a collection in work for him.

aidanodr

Hi Guys,

Just to bring another angle in here.

Has anybody thought about WHY we have not heard anything from Enda Kenny in recent times?

Could I suggest that OK though politicians are in different parties - does this stop them from being friends behind the scenes? Enda and Bertie have been in this game for a long time, SO - could Enda have known this resignation was coming shortly, maybe had some chats mano eh mano behind the scenes with Bertie - and this is why he - enda - has been so quiet?

Dont kick my head off - I have no solid affiliations with any party - just putting this forward for consideration,

Cheers
Aidan

Liam Byrne

DadaKopf wrote: »

But, while I absolutely believe Bertie has been telling porkies, it's still conceivable that he isn't corrupt.

+1; the problem that I have with this whole issue is that FF are focussing on the planning corruption, and saying Bertie isn't guilty [of that]. That could well be true.

But the questions raised are bigger than that, and it's blinkered to focus on that. He's received a fortune in money and refused to explain it (or offered differing explanations); he also admitted that he's given jobs to friends "because they were his friends" which is nepotism, and therefore surely can be viewed as a level of corruption ?

But FF focus on what the tribunal hasn't yet proven, rather than dealing with what has come out. Blinkered as hell, and that doesn't bode well for the integrity of whoever will be his successor.

If I was accused of something and wasn't guilty, the only reason I'd fudge the truth is if I was guilty of something else that might be worse, and wanted to hide that.

Does that negate the "innocent until proven guilty" ? Not completely, but partly. Listening to the FFers today, saying that the public and the media should have given Bertie the chance to give his side of the story, was sickening.....as Liz O'Donnell said on RTE TV - he had numerous chances to tell his side, and didn't use them - so it's no-one's fault but his own if we doubt him.....

I'm/We're not saying he's guilty (coz we wouldn't even know what he's guilty of) but there are too many questions that he's refused to answer, and the worst thing is that he's never even acknowledged that the fiasco is all his fault.....if he'd come clean day one then there would be no inconsistencies or surprise revelations and they could have gotten on with doing their jobs.....

Eoghan Harris' interview on RTE TV was also pathetic, licking the arse of the guy who appointed him. :rolleyes:

Dr Galen

so if Cowen get the top job who is going to get finance??

Brian Lenehan might not have beena bad choice but I'd say he's happy with DOJ and seems to want to get some work done there. Any thoughts?

Baggio...

I've been looking forward to this.... I'm glad he's gone.

edanto

Sweet, I'm delighted that he's gone. What did I tell yis only last week in the Mahon Tribunal thread lads!! Well I suppose I did say 'out by the end of April for sure', so my source was a few days out.

Anyone put a bet on it?

Carlow52

Maybe now someone will sort out SIPTU in Dublin Airport.

Red Alert

His position had been untenable from a long time ago, and I would have preferred to see him fired as opposed to letting him resign gracefully. Our new taoiseach should have been addressing the US houses in my opinion, whoever he or she is.

ismynametoolong

Mugabe and Ahern ! two great statesment set about leaving office on the same day !!

johnl

The_Minister wrote: »

Anyone else notice that no Progressive Democrats came to see him off?

Which PDs?

Our man in Havana

ismynametoolong wrote: »

Mugabe and Ahern ! two great statesment set about leaving office on the same day !!

Very Good!

Anyways good riddance. You won't be missed.

Welcome to our new Taoiseach, my local TD Brian Cowen. Laois/Offaly will now get all it needs, like proper broadband at last.

dloob

I was almost expecting him to quote some Shakespeare like another former FF leader
“I have done the state some service, and they know it, no more of that.”

The Hill Billy

ANXIOUS wrote: »

This is a sad day for ireland. Regardless of what people say he did an untold amount of god for this country. Its quite sad that he didnt get the chance to be presummed innocent until proven guilty. If their was an election tomorrow ff would win by a landslide. It really is a sad day, it really is true ireland are a nation of bugruders, kicking a great man while he is down. Its funny how the mahon trib. leaked documents everytime it came under pressure

Gráinne Carruth - If that's you, you're a bit too damn late. :rolleyes:

ballooba

Bond-007 wrote: »

Welcome to our new Taoiseach, my local TD Brian Cowan. Laois/Offaly will now get all it needs, like proper broadband at last.

As long as we don't all have to start talking with Offaly accents and suck at football.

CerebralCortex

ANXIOUS wrote: »

...amount of god for this country.....

Freudian slip?

The_Minister

johnl wrote: »

Which PDs?

Harney for one.
Or Grealish.
Or O'Malley
Or Cannon

failing that, Cait Keane, Victor Boyhen etc could have been there.

#I'm just wondering whats behind it? Are they out of favour for finally putting the screws to Ahern? Or is it that Cowen has always disliked being in coalition with anybody.

HydeRoad

Some of the most destructive people in the history of Irish politics were promoted on Bertie's watch.

Padraig Flynn, who swung a sweet deal for the operators of the West Link toll bridge, which ushered in a decade of absolute and complete traffic mayhem and commuter dismay, adversely affecting traffic throughout the whole capital city of Ireland, and ultimately costing the state and the taxpayer a fortune to buy back.

Ray Burke, whose contributions to the corrupt and scandalous planning system are well documented, who went to JAIL for his deeds, and whose legacy has had more negative ramifications for ordinary people in this country than probably any other, resulting in all the traffic, infrastructure, and quality of life problems we have suffered ever since, and will continue to suffer for decades to come.

Later still, Mary Harney, who presided over a scandalous episode in the history of the Irish health service, and whose party, after the last general election, were practically voted out of existence; yet against all remote notions of democracy, was reinstated to continue her disastrous and destructive tenure at the helm of a department she has no electoral mandate to remain in.

All of these people were promoted on the word of Bertie Ahern, despite their previous records, in the full knowledge of the Taoiseach, who simply brushed off any suggestion of their inadequacies with such insulting statements as looking up trees in North Dublin, etc.

The man, despite his contributions to the country, deserves to be remembered for his legacy of treating the people of this country as fools. His support of very destructive people in office lays the blame for all of today's terrible problems of traffic congestion, poor planning, high mortgages, too much borrowing, inadequate infrastructure, and a disfunctional health service firmly on his shoulders.

The opportunity to deal with many of these problems was during the boom years. The opportunity was squandered.

johnl

The_Minister wrote: »

Harney for one.
Or Grealish.
Or O'Malley
Or Cannon

failing that, Cait Keane, Victor Boyhen etc could have been there.

Wow, you turned my rhetorical joke RIGHT AROUND!

#I'm just wondering whats behind it? Are they out of favour for finally putting the screws to Ahern? Or is it that Cowen has always disliked being in coalition with anybody.

Well, it was a hastily-organised thing, so could have been they just weren't around. Were there any Greens there? I don't think so, but I don't remember precisely. It seemed to be just the "good old boys" of Fianna Fáil, the faithful of the National Party

johnl

johnl wrote: »

Were there any Greens there? I don't think so, but I don't remember precisely. It seemed to be just the "good old boys" of Fianna Fáil, the faithful of the National Party

John Gormley was standing behind Ahern at the steps.

seamus

Ah I remember telling a taxi driver all about this about two months ago.

I said that I reckoned the tribunal would bring up something about Bertie that was on a CJH scale. But before that happened, Bertie would make an impassioned speech about leaving office for the good of the country, then Cowen would take over (who is absolutely squeaky clean) and FF's partners in Government won't have to make any tough moral decisions about staying in Government with FF.
Then about 2 years before the next election and just after the current recession has died, Cowen and his merry men will reveal a whole pile of reforms which they've been sitting on, claim that they've saved the country from the ****ter, and by the time the next election rolls around, the electorate will have forgotten all about Bertie and Mahon and property prices and the economy and FF will go back into power.

Bertie will win because regardless now of the outcome of Mahon, he'll always have a "special place" in FFer's hearts, just like CJH does.

MsFifers

FROM BBC: Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he had made an "historic contribution in helping to bring peace to Northern Ireland, transforming Ireland's relationship with the UK, and playing a key role in the development of a forward looking and dynamic Europe".

Janey - he was quick getting his statement out. He must have had some advance warning!