Help a 17 year old understand politics

JimmyO

Hi All,

My newphew is about to turn 18 and is very interested in exercising his right to vote but admits that he really doesn't understand the arena.

Is anyone aware of an impartial resource that sets out the ABCs of Irish politics?

Something that includes a list of parties and their policies etc.

I'm no teacher and I find it difficult to discuss it without pushing my own political views.

Carlow52

Gay Mitchell had a booklet delivered to each house a few weeks ago: it was not bad, u might be able to source it from eu office in molesworthstreet

The_Minister

Try wikipedia for a decent summary, although some of the articles are a little off.
On the liberal-authoritarian/left-right, its:
Fianna Fail: Centre, centre (this is highly debateable, but I think that this is where they fall)

Fine Gael: Authoritarian, right

Labour: Centre, left

Progressive Democrats: Liberal, Right

Greens: Varies (normally liberal), Varies (normally left)

Sinn Fein: Authoritarian, Left

Elmo

I'm no teacher and I find it difficult to discuss it without pushing my own political views.

It's good to give your view to him then he should decide himself if he thinks your right.

If he doesn't have an oppinion he can then go and vote for FG/FF.

You could give him all of the Election Manifestos tell him to read them and then put the in the fire, stating that we now live in the real world, for a few months we pretend to beleive what they say.

Fianna Fail: Centre, centre (this is highly debateable, but I think that this is where they fall)

Fine Gael: Authoritarian, right

Labour: Centre, left

Progressive Democrats: Liberal, Right

Greens: Varies (normally liberal), Varies (normally left)

Sinn Fein: Authoritarian, Left

Far to simplistic, The PDs are a Neo Liberal right wing party. They are Economically Liberal and Socially Conservative. Sinn Fein are Liberal Socially and Conservative Economically. I don't see them as being Authoritarian, the PDs would be far more Authoritarian IMO.

You got the order wrong

Fianna Fail: Centre, centre (Depend on who they bring into government with them, they are ultra green and Right of centre at the moment)

Fine Gael: Authoritarian, right (I don't know if they are Authoritarian either, I mean they never seem very authoritive).

Labour: Centre, left

Greens: Varies (normally liberal), Varies (normally left)

Sinn Fein: Authoritarian, Left

Progressive Democrats: Neo Liberal, Right

DadaKopf

Wikipedia is actually alright, but if you want to give him a book to last a lifetime, 'Politics in the Republic of Ireland' edited by John Coakley and Michael Gallagher is a classic. It's a first-year introductory text, an accessible academic text, but very readable for anyone interested in particular aspects of Irish politics.

It makes sense of, e.g., our constitution, the party system, electoral system, how the oireachtas works, local politics, etc. It's updated every few years.

lostexpectation

tell him politics isn't just about voting, or party politics

duggie-89

yea politics aint just about voting, but i think you should maybe let him now from what you know about politics, give ur slant on it and then just make sure he knows that its just your opinion and let him look at the different and key points of each party.

DadaKopf

lostexpectation wrote:

tell him politics isn't just about voting, or party politics

That too, give him something like 'No Logo' by Naomi Klein. It's an exciting way to expand kids' ideas of 'the political'.

EamonnKeane

Elmo wrote: »

Sinn Fein are Liberal Socially and Conservative Economically. I don't see them as being Authoritarian, the PDs would be far more Authoritarian IMO.

don't SF shoot drug dealers?

Dave!

This is a pretty handy website
http://www.citizensinformation.ie

It's a good place to learn about parliamentary protocol, what a TD does, how a bill becomes a law, the different government departments, the different kinds of government and their roles, the legal system, elections, and so on.........

Not really exhaustive, but a good overview none the less! I often get lost in that website, it's like wikipedia! One thing leads to another, etc

Elmo

don't SF shoot drug dealers?

No guns shoot drug dealers! Also known as the last sting of a dieing wasp!

The poor Middle Class Drug Dealers.

To be honest I don't know what SF policy on Drug Dealers is, shot to kill, sounds fairly Authoritarian alright.

serfboard

Are they not teaching that now in schools? On the Junior Cert curriculum there's a subject called CSPE - Civic, Social and Political Education.

Was that just recently introduced or was he asleep/mitching while that was on?

Dave!

CSPE is not great tbh... we studied it til junior cert, but I don't think many people were interested in it at that age, and we didn't cover alot either. The only thing I remember about politics/gvmt from my junior cert is a vague idea of what proportional representation is. The rest was all about being a good citizen, blah blah blah........

serfboard

DaveMcG wrote: »

The only thing I remember [snip] blah blah blah........

So, you were asleep as well?

EamonnKeane

serfboard wrote: »

Are they not teaching that now in schools? On the Junior Cert curriculum there's a subject called CSPE - Civic, Social and Political Education.

Was that just recently introduced or was he asleep/mitching while that was on?

Instead of actually teaching students about politics, CSPE shows them how jolly the world would be if we were all friends and shared everything in a big Utopia, with ginger beer and teacakes for all. CSPE takes place in a fantasy land where the UN, principles and the average voter are relevant, and where our leaders work selflessly for the good of all.

kowloon

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Instead of actually teaching students about politics, CSPE shows them how jolly the world would be if we were all friends and shared everything in a big Utopia, with ginger beer and teacakes for all. CSPE takes place in a fantasy land where the UN, principles and the average voter are relevant, and where our leaders work selflessly for the good of all.

Cynical, anyone for more teacakes?

HydeRoad

As I posted in a completely different thread elsewhere, on a different matter, the world seems to be left with just two alternative visions of human society. A communist, socialist, everythingallintheonepot society, run by paranoid, corrupt, power-crazed, despotic leaders, or a capitalist, profit-driven, survivalofthefittest society, run by paranoid, corrupt, power-crazed, despotic leaders.

Either way, a band of very rich and powerful people will rise to the top, and promptly slam the door shut, and shoot anyone who threatens their totopoly. Metaphorically speaking, at least, if not actually, in some countries!

DadaKopf

You can think of things as they are, or think of things as they should be. I actually think that part of the problem in politics today is we've entered a kind of feudal mindset, but instead of us seeing the world as an unchangeable, harmonious, hierarchical society of peasants and kings, we've been indoctrinated to see it as a corrupted, but ultimately harmonious, natural market machine populated by people in, er, harmonious competition.

It's only that ugly, messy, avaricious, corrupt human beings upset the harmony. Oh, if only people would obey the natural rules and there'd be no trouble.

The reality is that democracy and the better society is a struggle. It's a myth to think that we one day arrive at a point of perfection. If cynicism about politics takes root from the gap between myth and reality, then we have to dump the myth.

It's through democracy that people most fairly agree ways to temper the tendency of human beings to accumulate and abuse power.

I was thinking about the lotto yesterday, how ethical it is. I figured that on one hand, it's no harm - who cares if it makes a fraction of a percent of the Irish population millionaires? It's making more Ireland unequal one way, but redistributing the proceeds to to poor or vulnerable people across the country. But, at the local level, if a family becomes millionaires, they have a dilemma: if they keep the money, their neighbours, friends, family will feel jealous, potentially corroding personal relationships; if they share the money, conflict would be avoided and personal relationships strengthened. I thought: neoliberals think socialism is irrational because the dogma says we're all individuals in competition; but sharing wealth is very rational because we're not individuals, we're members of communities. Without some degree of fairness in society (which has to be struggled for), you simply have a life that is nasty, brutish and short.

oscarBravo

DadaKopf wrote: »

...we're not individuals, we're members of communities.

Speaking strictly for myself: I'm both.

DadaKopf

The boundaries between both are blurred .

In a roundabout way, I'm talking about ideology. It's interesting how most people's experiences of breaking social norms or the law actually feels physical.