Alternative to Alcoholics Anonymous

collie50

Cheers and thanks for this info. At last were getting somewhere.

I intend to go to a meeting and will do a report on my findings after a few visits.

I hope we can give the AA bashing a rest for a while as the below meeeting is the aim of this thread.:)

martin0519 wrote: »

There is an alternative face to face meeting in Dublin. It is held Tuesday at 6:30 pm in the Dublin Central Mission on Lower Abbey Street.

This meeting follows the LifeRing philosophy of Sobriety, Secularity, Self-Help (see. Unhooked.com)

This meeting and one other at St Patrick's Hospital offer a choice of recovery techniques. It is a group that some may find helpful.

collie50

Very well written, thank you for your imput....

geronimofinch wrote: »

Well, I've been off the sauce for a good couple of months now and have just returned from a two week holiday - where the temptation of drinking was pretty strong toward the end of the first week, however, I stuck it out - and now feel that I can remain abstinent for the remainder of my life. I have tried AA before without much success. The religious aspect in itself wasn't that particularly off-putting, however, I felt the demand placed on me by the majority of members to 'get as many meetings in as possible or you'll be in trouble' to be the major stumbling point. There was something rather unsettling about that piece of advice.

Then I found Rational Recovery. Quite simple really - some would say perhaps too simple. Firstly, you'll go through a Powerpoint presentation entitled 'Bullets to the Beast' thingy or something to that effect on the RR website (http://www.rational.org/html_bullets/Bullet5.html). In essence, it attempts to separate the person (you) from the beast brain (it) and lays a foundation for the ambivalence that people who desire to stop drinking suffer from. "Yeah, I want to stop drinking" while on the other hand another voice is telling them "stop drinking? Are you mad?".
There are also 2 books which I've read on the matter - Rational Recovery and The Small Book. Both fortify the argument for the RR approach over the AA approach (as you would expect) and I must say I've found it quite enlightening. Where the AA Big Book and their abundance of rules, steps and regulations seem too archaic and cumbersome, the RR system seems, well, more rational I suppose.

It has certainly helped me to gain a clearer understanding of what exactly goes on inside my head and I imagine it can help a lot of other people out there who aren't too keen on the whole AA thing.

No harm in trying, eh?

zero_nine

I like the idea of this rational recovery thing....I'm gonna give it my attention once I'm not tired as hell!

I especially like the way it doesn't make you feel like you're alien from the rest of the normal drinking population. Sack drinking, pile a sh*te!

robes

I’ve been going to the Lifering meetings in Dublin for the last few weeks and they’ve really helped me in my struggle to stay sober. As far as I can see the idea behind Lifering is that you “empower your sober self”. That means making choices about yourself and how you live your life. Recovering from addiction this way requires that you use your intelligence and be resilient, and the group members support each other in these efforts. I’d say that anyone who would prefer a non-religious/spiritual approach might find it useful.

The meetings are every Tuesday at 6.30pm in the Wesley Room, Dublin Central Mission, Lower Abbey St. (at the Abbey St Luas stop)

martin0519

LifeRing is an non-profit alternative to 12 step programs. Each individual takes responsibility for their own recovery. We each build our own plan for living a sober life. Meetings can be used to enhance this choice and as a workshop for building and modifying your plan.

There is a book called "Empower Your Sober Self" by Martin Nicolaus which explains LifeRing approach. This book is available in the Dublin City Libraries for loan.

I started LifeRing in Dublin. I found a need for an alternative to AA. Have been sober 30 years now. LifeRing does not suggest any number of meetings as one person commented that some 12 step members suggesting. Attend as little or as much as you would like. Each person is in charge of their own life. There are no sponsors because there is no program to be taught or learned.

The main focus of the meetings is your last week in sobriety and what you expect in your next week of recovery. We do not do war stories or Drunkalogues or Drugalogues. If you are/were addicted to any mind altering substance you are welcome to LifeRing. Since it is all about recovery, it is easy to relate to people with other addictions besides your own. Recovery is the same; war stories are not.

Conversation (crosstalk) is allowed and encouraged but we avoid the "you shoulds". We talk about our own recovery and how we maintain it on a daily basis.

The LifeRing movement has an international web site www.Unhooked.com.
Lots of information and resources there.

gavkm27

Hey i'm sort of new to the forums and just spent the last good hour reading through this thread and it is fairly hectic to say the least.
I really would like to avoid getting into anything with the few standout anti AA fellahs.
I've been goin for 7 years and sometimes i think it's the biggest load of shoite and other times i think it's great,my opinions are not set in stone.
Regardless of all the claims that it is a sect and the principles behind giving ones life up to a higher power,surrender,powerlessness blah blah blah
The need i have is other people,i still go to meetings because i need ''fellowship'' i need some decent friends who are'nt drinking that i can hang out with,i know that if i did'nt have that i would go back drinking.

And the same can be said for other organisations,they rely on some sort of fellowship.my hat is off to a man who can stay off drink without the support of other people.

AA works for some poeple and does'nt work for others

martin0519

gavkm27 wrote: »

AA works for some poeple and does'nt work for others

I agree totally. LifeRing meetings provide the contact with other people. It may not work for everyone. It does provide the first alternative process in Ireland to AA. It is not in competition with AA but overs a choice to the 12st step methods.

Bill W. in the AAGrapevine in 1944 stated: "There are many roads to recovery."

There truly are many roads. May we respect and honor each one.

Karen_*

Its great to hear about Lifering. AA works for me but as everyone is not me and therefore AA won't suit everyone its heartening to know that there are other groups being formed. Doesn't matter how you get sober, the main things is that you do.

gavkm27

martin0519 wrote: »

I agree totally. LifeRing meetings provide the contact with other people. It may not work for everyone. It does provide the first alternative process in Ireland to AA. It is not in competition with AA but overs a choice to the 12st step methods.

Bill W. in the AAGrapevine in 1944 stated: "There are many roads to recovery."

There truly are many roads. May we respect and honor each one.

Yes totally agree,even within AA there are a million ways to stay sober,i hear it often people saying 'you need to do this this and this to stay sober' and they end up back drinking.Alcoholism,Addiction,disease whatever you want to call it,is cunning,baffling,powerful and thats why there is only a claimed 5% success rate,to be successful you need to get off it and stay off it until you die!

An Alcoholic drinking is their natural state,so anyone,anywhere using whatever means possible to stay off it,my hats are off to them.
And thats the bottom line,regardless of AA,lifering,steps,higher power,the list goes on,if your not drinking your winning

martin0519

Actually, recent research has negated this idea. It is the basis for the "powerless" concept. More recent work indicate that "alcoholism" is based on a series of bad decisions by the individual. Smoking is in this category too. Smoking is not considered the "natural state" of an ex-smoker.

Alcoholic drinking was never considered a disease in modern times until it was pushed by Marty Mann while she was employed at Yale. Historically, her efforts were based on poor research later refuted by the author at the request of Yale.

gavkm27

martin0519 wrote: »

Actually, recent research has negated this idea. It is the basis for the "powerless" concept. More recent work indicate that "alcoholism" is based on a series of bad decisions by the individual. Smoking is in this category too. Smoking is not considered the "natural state" of an ex-smoker.

Alcoholic drinking was never considered a disease in modern times until it was pushed by Marty Mann while she was employed at Yale. Historically, her efforts were based on poor research later refuted by the author at the request of Yale.

What research are you talking about?
The term was spawned in meetings over the years,it's not written anywhere in the AA literature,it's just something people say to comfort each other when others go back drinking!
Smoking is not in the same category because nicotine is physically addictive and is in the same category as heroin,yes there are people who are physically addicted to alcohol,but this takes a long time to develop and it is classed more as a dependance in my experience and i've been hooked on all 3 in my time

anymore

martin0519 wrote: »

Actually, recent research has negated this idea. It is the basis for the "powerless" concept. More recent work indicate that "alcoholism" is based on a series of bad decisions by the individual. Smoking is in this category too. Smoking is not considered the "natural state" of an ex-smoker.

Alcoholic drinking was never considered a disease in modern times until it was pushed by Marty Mann while she was employed at Yale. Historically, her efforts were based on poor research later refuted by the author at the request of Yale.

'Recent research' ?. It is a fairly well established rule that if people want to use ' research' as part of an arguement or debate, they should give a reference or link so the readers can check it put for themselves.

pampers1

Is it o.k. for recovering alcoholics to drink non-alcoholic beer or wine or is that just not a done thing?

Aard

Not the done thing. Total abstinence. That extends to avoiding anything that even contains traces of alcohol. Most, if not all, "non-alcoholic" beers/wines actually contain alcohol, just not enough for it to be prohibited to be sold to minors. The same goes for anything that has been cooked in wine, but has had "the alcohol burned off".

anymore

Strictly speaking I think few non alcoholic drinks are totally free of alcohol - anyone know if this is free.
An AA friend tells me that it creates the illusion of still drinking which may lead to the slippery slope !

Aard

There's a difference between a non-alcoholic wine/beer and a non-alcoholic drink. The latter would be things like J2O, which is just juice, but available in bars. On the other hand there are drinks like Fentimans, like their cola, which are alcoholic, albeit of negligible quantity.

force majeure

Back to the main point off the thread, I did try a few AA meets over the passed 1 or so years but alas its not my thing either, Just could not get the feel off the way they do things so have being marching to the sound off my own drum... not something I well endorse as its might tricky at times, best off luck to all out their what ever course they opt for. :cool:

City_girl

Hi i'm a 22 year old girl who needs some help regarding my drinking. Its always been outta control, but go through good and bad times. I only would drink once or twice a week but i could go 24 hours straight drinking and then i'm sick for days. I've been hospitalised over it, done damage to myself. Lately it has gotten worse and i just want to stop and get help. Or i am gonna end up dead, when i do drink so much i make a holy show of myself and feel embarrassed after a night out on a regular basis. I've lost friends and relationships to my drinking. I'm not a nice person when i drink. I tried moderating my drink but that doesn't help, i need to give up altogether. Whats the best way to go about it. Is AA good? I'm not a religious person as such. I just want help and get my life on track. Sorry if i'm posting in the wrong place, but just need some advice.

force majeure

City_girl wrote: »

Hi i'm a 22 year old girl who needs some help regarding my drinking. Its always been outta control, but go through good and bad times. I only would drink once or twice a week but i could go 24 hours straight drinking and then i'm sick for days. I've been hospitalised over it, done damage to myself. Lately it has gotten worse and i just want to stop and get help. Or i am gonna end up dead, when i do drink so much i make a holy show of myself and feel embarrassed after a night out on a regular basis. I've lost friends and relationships to my drinking. I'm not a nice person when i drink. I tried moderating my drink but that doesn't help, i need to give up altogether. Whats the best way to go about it. Is AA good? I'm not a religious person as such. I just want help and get my life on track. Sorry if i'm posting in the wrong place, but just need some advice.

Its not the wrong place to post so no bother their.
The first point that needs to be made is the AA which I myself have only a moderate regard for are about the only serious set up their is here in Ireland. beyond that their are clinics but far too costly for most off us.
First thing you can do is go to a GP and talk freely about things he or she may be able to prescribe some 'Librium' to help ease you up for a few days and after that you well need to start talking to some one about everything in your life as by going solo you are facing one hell off a task.
By talking to some one I do not you need the AA as such but you can meet people their that you may be able to relate to and even keep in touch with, aside from that their is the pro's like addiction councilors.
Lastly as for the friend lost and the embarrassing days past that is something you well learn to deal with over the next 12 months or so, and it would in all honesty be out side normal if you were not like that as the rest off us Alki's all have the same stories give or take... in other words you are in good company here.
Good luck now
PS if you opt for AA... brace yourself for all the God stuff.:eek:

City_girl

Thanks very much for your advice. It helped, i have talked to my Doctor about it before and he just says i need to see a cousellor but i already do. Maybe i should see an addiction counsellor. At the moment i've been talking valium and sleeping tablets but at that i'm starting to become worried as i don't want to start relying on them i have a history of drug problems too. I will definitely try the aa route, anything at this stage to keep me sane.

Shayman

force majeure wrote: »

PS if you opt for AA... brace yourself for all the God stuff.:eek:

That's a bit unfair. I attend AA in various places, and have been for a few years now - and there is no over emphasis on God. There is reference to your higher power. That can be anything not necessarily God. Your doing this girl (and other Alcoholics seeking help) a disservice by making it sound like a religious cult. AA has been extremely good for me and I am not a religious person. Without AA I would probably be dead and would definitely be homeless.

force majeure

Shayman wrote: »

That's a bit unfair. I attend AA in various places, and have been for a few years now - and there is no over emphasis on God. There is reference to your higher power. That can be anything not necessarily God. Your doing this girl (and other Alcoholics seeking help) a disservice by making it sound like a religious cult. AA has been extremely good for me and I am not a religious person. Without AA I would probably be dead and would definitely be homeless.

I respect your point but clearly we have attended much different places. So do respect my point.

Shayman

force majeure wrote: »

I respect your point but clearly we have attended much different places. So do respect my point.

I do respect your point but equally I wouldn't like to think someone decided against going to AA for help in the (inaccurate) belief that it's a religious gathering when it's not. Our condition is far too serious and there is far too little help available in Ireland to write off the main source due to one persons bad experience.

Aard

AA isn't religious. Basically, it brings about a personality shift sufficient enough to recover from alcoholism. They talk about 'a god of your understanding'. A lot of people interpret this as a Christian god. Others say it stands for 'group of drunks'. It's up to you.

WalterMitty

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2010/0316/1224266347200.html

Shayman

Ok, so does it mean that after the 'course' or whatever it is one can drink again and be able to do so in moderation? The article is a bit unclear...

Shayman

I've just been researching the Smart Recovery set up on the net. The basic principles are similar to AA. I do notice, however, that there's a fair oul concentration on the sales and 'donation' side of it. It certainly isn't free and self supporting like AA. It seems more of a business set up similar to, say, Weightwatchers?

Any opinions?

Bassfish

Shayman wrote: »

Ok, so does it mean that after the 'course' or whatever it is one can drink again and be able to do so in moderation? The article is a bit unclear...

The accepted wisdom worldwide is that once a person crosses the line into being dependant on alcohol, they can never go back to being able to drink moderately.

Shayman

Absolutely, I agree with you Bassfish. And having looked a little deeper into Smart Recovery as I stated above there's little difference between it's principles and AAs except that Smart seems to be an American 'Evangilised' moneymaking operation based on the AA blueprint.

dttnch

Shayman wrote: »

Absolutely, I agree with you Bassfish. And having looked a little deeper into Smart Recovery as I stated above there's little difference between it's principles and AAs except that Smart seems to be an American 'Evangilised' moneymaking operation based on the AA blueprint.

You are incorrect please divulge your sources deeper!!
I've been sober since sept 2009. I did do a treatment faculity which (as almost all) in Ireland depend on the Minnesota 12 step AA based program and cost a pretty penny. They do impose an aa meeting afterwards at which i protested at please see the 12 steps!!
After I left the centre and tried the aftercare program and AA I discovered Rational recovery and most importantly smart recovery, Smart recovery has an online library of cbt lessons which I found extremely helpful, which AA never offered me. and they have an online forum where I can talk to like-minded people they also have online meetings which I can avail of free of charge.. everything I have gotten from Smart Recovery has been FREE. I have never paid them a penny. They have helped me tremendously and have never asked for my belief in god or a higher power. Smart Recovery and Rational Recovery did for me what AA could not and I'm so thankful. What works for one can not work for us all as we are individuals.

I once needed an alternative method and found nowhere to go I was very lonely and left out, not of my AA friends could understand. But I eventually found it on-line.
All I ask is please do not suggest they charge or are involved with any religion as this is not the cast, they are secular and also advise that going to AA is your choice and you can do both, as this is about alternative methods.