Bertie V Enda

JMULL

Enda Kenny National School teacher. Thirty years as a TD. Served as minister for tourism or something for five minutes. Roughly same age as Bertie. If he resigned today what would people be saying was his legacy. I just cant think of anything.

Hagar

There goes an honest man?

Hagar

Hagar wrote: »

There goes an honest man?

Twas easy to be honest. He didn't do anything at all, let alone something to lie about.

oscarBravo

I think I'd be prouder of having done nothing, than of something I had to lie about.

Besides, why are we restricting legacy to that which was achieved in government office?

oscarBravo

oscarBravo wrote: »

I think I'd be prouder of having done nothing, than of something I had to lie about.

Then you should be very proud indeed of Enda. He has top marks in the done nothing stakes.

As for what he did outside government offices, he was a competent teacher and keeps a nice garden. Kudos.

death1234567

Enda Who?

oscarBravo

Deleted User wrote: »

As for what he did outside government offices, he was a competent teacher and keeps a nice garden. Kudos.

Spoken like an astute observer of the political scene. Not a trace of partisanship. Kudos.

oscarBravo

oscarBravo wrote: »

Not a trace of partisanship. Kudos.

I bow to your impartiality.

Sherifu

Deleted User wrote: »

Then you should be very proud indeed of Enda. He has top marks in the done nothing stakes.

As for what he did outside government offices, he was a competent teacher and keeps a nice garden. Kudos.

You'd think being honest is a crime.

Sherifu

Sherifu wrote: »

You'd think being honest is a crime.

You'd think being honest was the most important thing to govern.

That John F and Robert Kennedy. Everyone remembers them for that civil rights nonsense. The big news was riding Marilyn and lying to their wives, of course.

Sherifu

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd think being honest was the most important thing to govern.

That John F and Robert Kennedy. Everyone remembers them for that civil rights nonsense. The big news was riding Marilyn and lying to their wives, of course.

That didn't affect people's lives.

oscarBravo

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd think being honest was the most important thing to govern.

Surprisingly, some people consider it important. Sadly, fewer Irish people think so than in other countries.

JMULL

Right the only thing people will say about Kenny when he goes is that he was honest. Home and Away coverage should not be affected that day then so.

oscarBravo

He's not gone yet. As of now, his legacy includes turning around the electoral fortunes of FG, and he could yet have a legacy as Taoiseach.

JMULL

Sure the only way was up for FG in the last election. If current government goes full term Enda will be retirement age by next election. Surely after 30 years though he should have some legacy left.

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd think being honest was the most important thing to govern.

In my book it's right up there. Do you think it's not ?

Deleted User wrote: »

That John F and Robert Kennedy. Everyone remembers them for that civil rights nonsense. The big news was riding Marilyn and lying to their wives, of course.

Is it unfair to throw in just a TINY nod towards Celia Larkin ?

Whether or not you're faithful to your wife or g/f is probably a personal issue, although it might reflect your level of honesty and ethics; aside from that, though, it's irrelevant.

Breezer

Enda Kenny has not been given the opportunity to show what he is capable of in Government, so I don't think it is fair to compare his legacy to Bertie's. As leader of Fine Gael, he has brought his party from the brink of extinction to eclipsing Fianna Fáil in the European elections of 2004, increased FG's number of Dáil seats from 31 in 2002 to 51 in 2007, and were it not for a poor performance by Labour he would now be Taoiseach.

He has named a strong front bench for the 30th Dáil and Fine Gael are a much stronger and more vocal force this time around (witness Dr James Reilly's numerous scathing attacks on Mary Harney over the scandals in the Health Service).

As leader of his party he took the mature stance of fighting the last general election on issues that mattered to the Irish people, rather than on Bertie Ahern's finances. When it became clear during this Dáil that the finances were becoming a distraction to Fianna Fáil running this country, he (along with many others) called for Bertie Ahern to resign, and kept up the pressure for many months until it eventually happened.

As Minister for Tourism he brought the Tour de France to Ireland and presided over a period of increased tourism generally. What exactly do you expect a Minister for Tourism to do, cure cancer? What has Seamus Brennan done in the same post?

As regards what Enda Kenny did not do, he did not claim to be an accountant when he holds no such qualification, he did not claim to graduate from UCD when he never attended the university, he did not sign blank cheques, he did not develop amnesia when questioned about Sterling lodgements, only for his secretary to contradict him... the list goes on.

For a full synopsis of the various committees Enda Kenny has chaired and the positions he has held, have a look at his website, http://www.endakenny.ie.

I don't believe Bertie Ahern is the devil. I dislike the man, I think he did an excellent job in Northern Ireland but rode the wave of a good economy south of border without maximising its true potential, ultimately hung himself due to shady dealings, and I am not sorry to see him go. I acknowledge his achievements, but to put Bertie up on a pedestal and claim that because Enda did not bring peace to Northern Ireland he is absolutely useless is total rubbish.

JMULL

Great so he brought the party to second place in the last election. Would not be much point in him pretending to be an accountant when everybody knew that he was holding on to his teaching post till about two or three years ago.

Breezer

JMULL wrote: »

Great so he brought the party to second place in the last election.

And first place in the Europeans in 2004. And I would consider FG's performance in the last general election to be a significant achievement. For FG to go from their worst election result since 1948 to being the largest party in the Dáil would be totally unrealistic. Enda has set this as his ambition for the next election, a bold move admittedly, but far more realistic than trying to do it last time around.

Would not be much point in him pretending to be an accountant when everybody knew that he was holding on to his teaching post till about two or three years ago.

You're deliberately taking that out of context. Of course he wouldn't pretend to be an accountant. The point is, he has never pretended to be something he isn't in order to further his credibility. And on the point of holding on to jobs, Bertie Ahern is still technically on a career break from the Mater.

Liam Byrne

JMULL wrote: »

Great so he brought the party to second place in the last election. Would not be much point in him pretending to be an accountant when everybody knew that he was holding on to his teaching post till about two or three years ago.

What exactly does that have to do with anything ?

The reason that Enda & FG didn't get into power is because FF claimed that the economy was so good that they should be left in power so that they could "keep up the good work".

Now that they have power, any downturn is "not their fault" and is down to "external factors".

Gob****es! Claim credit for good things but run when there's accountability and responsibility and leadership required. :mad:

Give me Enda any day......even today he was gracious and factual, rather than gloating.

Bertie's "man of the people" was an illusion - I remember thinking that it was pretty apt that the election posters of him "meeting and greeting" people were PhotoShop jobs...... :rolleyes: Very apt indeed.

LostinBlanch

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd think being honest was the most important thing to govern.

Like others have said it's up there. I would have said it's a prerequisite. I was talking about this at the weekend and said weren't we lucky not to have had the likes of Bertie, CJH in the 1920's? The country could well have been sold from under us.

Instead we got Dev who at least had a vision of the Ireland he wanted one that resonated with lots of the population at the time. Though not all obviously. At least he was honest, like the majority of people then.

I wonder at what point things changed and it became acceptable to put mé Féinism above honesty and true patriotism?

serfboard

Apart from the 2 1/2 years that Fine Gael were in Government, Fianna Fail have been in power for the last 21 years and assuming that this current government will remain in power for the full term, then they will have been in government for 25 years.

It's hard for someone who's not in government to have any legacy of great achievements in the national sense.

Colonel Sanders

serfboard wrote: »

Apart from the 2 1/2 years that Fine Gael were in Government, Fianna Fail have been in power for the last 21 years and assuming that this current government will remain in power for the full term, then they will have been in government for 25 years.

It's hard for someone who's not in government to have any legacy of great achievements in the national sense.

+1

Enda Kenny strikes me as a reasonably honourable, polite man. Bertie strikes me as a loud mouthed bumbling incompetent fool (during the leaders debate last year a lot of his shots at kenny were childish and smacked of circus tricks, i was half expecting him to shout 'your ma!' at any stage). Unfortunately Irish people seem to prefer the image of 'the man you'd go for a pint with'.

mickd

Breezer wrote: »

(witness Dr James Reilly's numerous scathing attacks on Mary Harney over the scandals in the Health Service).

Ah yes the poacher turned game keeper

Breezer wrote: »

As Minister for Tourism he brought the Tour de France to Ireland and presided over a period of increased tourism generally. What exactly do you expect a Minister for Tourism to do, cure cancer? What has Seamus Brennan done in the same post?

It amazes me when FG supporters are scratching around to look for some achievements over the past 25 years however bringing a sport event that was ridden with drug taking to the country is hardly noteworthy

Breezer wrote: »

As regards what Enda Kenny did not do, he did not claim to be an accountant when he holds no such qualification, he did not claim to graduate from UCD when he never attended the university, he did not sign blank cheques, he did not develop amnesia when questioned about Sterling lodgements, only for his secretary to contradict him... the list goes on.

Still was the most the successful Taoiseach since DeValera.

jmayo

mickd wrote: »

Ah yes the poacher turned game keeper



It amazes me when FG supporters are scratching around to look for some achievements over the past 25 years however bringing a sport event that was ridden with drug taking to the country is hardly noteworthy



Still was the most the successful Taoiseach since DeValera.

Ahh the FF motto for success over the last 25 years seems to have been
"beg, borrow or steal".

Who cares just solong as we get re-elected.
Compared to that all the other political parties are utter failures.
Worse thing that ever happened to FF was Goerge Colley not becoming leader.

The_Minister

I'm amazed that noone has mentioned Kenny's little planning fiasco when he was minister for tourism. About the only thing that he is remembered for is ruining the countryside (although he is not the only one who is to blame).

I have no real time for Enda, he seems like a nice simple lad, nothing special.

Richard Bruton now, there is a man that you can respect.

jmayo

The_Minister wrote: »

I'm amazed that noone has mentioned Kenny's little planning fiasco when he was minister for tourism. About the only thing that he is remembered for is ruining the countryside (although he is not the only one who is to blame).

I have no real time for Enda, he seems like a nice simple lad, nothing special.

Richard Bruton now, there is a man that you can respect.

Nice to see the PDs are still in bed with FF :rolleyes:
Matta Harrie can continue her fine work providing us all with a better, value for money and responsible health service for the next 4 odd years:(

mickd

jmayo wrote: »

Ahh the FF motto for success over the last 25 years seems to have been
"beg, borrow or steal".

Its the Irish motto or have you lived abroad for the last 25 years

jmayo wrote: »

Who cares just solong as we get re-elected.

Indeed Its up to FG to grow a set of balls instead of the usual spineless supine individuals we see

jmayo wrote: »

Compared to that all the other political parties are utter failures.
Worse thing that ever happened to FF was Goerge Colley not becoming leader.

One could debate that

The_Minister

Breezer wrote: »

When it became clear during this Dáil that the finances were becoming a distraction to Fianna Fáil running this country, he (along with many others) called for Bertie Ahern to resign, and kept up the pressure for many months until it eventually happened.

Sorry, but no.
Fine Gael called for his resignation for months, and nothing happened. Again and again, they cried for it, and the media gave them five minutes, and nothing more happened.

A PD senator calls for an explanation, then the PD leader does, and within days he is gone.

Fine Gael did put pressure on him to resign, but I think the credit for the final shiv must go to the Progressive Democrats. (and I don't think that is a good thing for them).

jmayo

mickd wrote: »

Its the Irish motto or have you lived abroad for the last 25 years

Indeed Its up to FG to grow a set of balls instead of the usual spineless supine individuals we see

One could debate that

So you are proud of Charlie, Ray, Padraig, Liam and Bertie ?
Ah sure who gets hurt if a few politicans accept a few gifts ?
Only thing is we all do since we all live with the consequences of bad planning, over priced services, poor infrastructure and poor value on state contracts.

daithicarr

Enda doesnt strike me as a particularily good leader for a country, but when the other option is Bertie i would happily see him in office.

Its a pity none of the partys seem to have any leaders of any great caliber. i wish they spent more time saying what they would do right, instead of what FF did wrong.
We know they are corrupt and incompetant. but as far as i can see none of the partys are putting forward any proposals or reforms which would help guard against future corruption and incompetance.