Great day for Fianna Fail?

I suspect a lot of FF members are surprised but not upset by todays news.

The party was taking a pounding over Bertie and his finances. At long last they have rid themselves of one headache, one issue that was becoming indefensible. I'd say a lot of Councillors are breathing a sigh of relief anyway.

stepbar

Not defending "de leader" now huh? The man could do no wrong in your eyes back in May......

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say a lot of Councillors are breathing a sigh of relief anyway.

Are they allowed to have opinions of their own, then ?

I seem to remember a good few of them around the Mid-West declaring their undying support for the people who elected them, only to head to Dublin for a meeting and suddenly develop amnesia as to why they were elected in the first place......

Can't see any of the muppets breathing any sighs of relief unless the party whip tells them to...... :rolleyes:

AckwelFoley

Party taking a pounding?

Eh no.

I think they done nicely in the last election amid all this contraversy crap

CCCP^

snyper wrote: »

Party taking a pounding?

Eh no.

I think they done nicely in the last election amid all this contraversy crap

That's all that matters - the Party. Not the people who put their trust in them. I think Bertie Ahern's decision to relinquish Taoiseach was one of political expediancy, it was on the cards. It couldn't have been long before the information coming from the Tribunal would have heaped pressure on FF and tarnished their credibility.

AckwelFoley

CCCP^ wrote: »

That's all that matters - the Party. Not the people who put their trust in them. .

The discussion is about Fianna Fail and Berties resignation . :rolleyes:

This sh1tfling tribunal crap was well underway and the people were well aware.

Bertie would be voted in again..and again.. and again..and again

edanto

Bertie will only begin to deal with this properly when he tells the whole truth.

I was tempted to shout that at him earlier today outside the Dail as he gave one final wave to the ten people outside the gate after the photocall and shuffle off.

Bertie waved to the small crowd, thinking they were fans, one person gave him a recognisably rude reply and his face fell. He knows that even though today was hard, he still has a way to go to regain trust. He could try telling the truth instead of shifting stories all the time.

"I have never received a corrupt payment"

For me, that's filed in the same place as:
"I never had sexual relations with that girl" Time will tell if I'm right or too quick to judge.

themont85

Fm104's phone show not the most respected of shows I know, but certaintly has a lot of ordinary folks on it. Listening to it now you'd swear he had died. They're doing a poll and over 75% didn't want him to resign. I heard similar on Newstalk when people called in and a lot of people in college who are dissapointed. IMO whether what Bertie did was corrupt or not this whole Bertie thing shows how disconnected the media/politics is from ordinary people. The new Taoiseach will find it tough to win over the electorate but I suppose with Enda Kenny still leader of FG it won't too much of a problem.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Not disconnected, just smarter.

stepbar

stepbar wrote: »

Not defending "de leader" now huh? The man could do no wrong in your eyes back in May......

You've just completely made that up. I have been critical of Bertie Ahern plenty of times. But then again, I guess you don't know me, which makes your decsision to post about me rather than the topic even more puzzling...

edanto

I'd agree with you that most FFers are probably relieved that he's stepping down and hope that any further disclosures will only serve to embarass Bertie and not the party.

I'm guessing you're a member of FF, right? I'm only asking because I'd like to know what kind of guidelines the party have now around accepting donations/loans/dig outs/favours What do they say to their members about this? There isn't anything that I can find on fiannafail.ie

Will there be a proper clean-up, and those that have been involved in corrupt decisions asked to step aside quietly over the next year or two?

Chakar

As a member of Fianna Fáil personally I was upset and angry when I heard of his resignation in his statement. The rest of my cumann members are all shocked and saddened that he had to resign at this point in time.

I hope Brian Cowen is elected unanimously as the seventh leader of Fianna Fáil. This will subsequently lead to his election as Ireland's 11th Taoiseach.

themont85

Willie Cool Hammock wrote: »

Not disconnected, just smarter.

Well we're the ultimate arbitrators of the leaders, not our media baying for blood. All we've been hearing these past weeks is that the public want Bertie to go but from what I've heard people are dissapointed. That shows a disconnection from the public imo.

stepbar

Deleted User wrote: »

You've just completely made that up. I have been critical of Bertie Ahern plenty of times. But then again, I guess you don't know me, which makes your decsision to post about me rather than the topic even more puzzling...

Conor, we all remember your posts back this time last year. If needed I'll root them out.....

stepbar

Chakar wrote: »

As a member of Fianna Fáil personally I was upset and angry when I heard of his resignation in his statement. The rest of my cumann members are all shocked and saddened that he had to resign at this point in time.

I hope Brian Cowen is elected unanimously as the seventh leader of Fianna Fáil. This will subsequently lead to his election as Ireland's 11th Taoiseach.

Upset and angry? Huh? The man should have resigned back in May. True to form, Irish politicans have a habit of waiting to resign until they absolutely have to. There's nothing shocking about it. It's Ireland. Sh1t like this happens :rolleyes:

juuge

Chakar wrote: »

As a member of Fianna Fáil personally I was upset and angry when I heard of his resignation in his statement. The rest of my cumann members are all shocked and saddened that he had to resign at this point in time.

Remind the members of your cumann that fianna fail in the eyes of the irish people was and will now always be regarded as a corrupt political party. Bertie's behaviour has reinforced this. You should be all very proud of yourselves.

Liam Byrne

Don't read the thread about "Worzel Gummige" so, juuge......they've even got ME speechless - and that's a tough thing to do!!!! :O

Liam Byrne

themont85 wrote: »

Well we're the ultimate arbitrators of the leaders, not our media baying for blood. All we've been hearing these past weeks is that the public want Bertie to go but from what I've heard people are dissapointed. That shows a disconnection from the public imo.

You've obviously only been talking to hardline FFers.......at least 5 people I spoke to today were breathing sighs of relief!!!! and since I don't - normally - talk to myself, I guess that makes 6...

ozt9vdujny3srf

themont85 wrote: »

Well we're the ultimate arbitrators of the leaders, not our media baying for blood. All we've been hearing these past weeks is that the public want Bertie to go but from what I've heard people are dissapointed. That shows a disconnection from the public imo.

That really depends on where you are / who you are listening to. The (purely personal) impression that I have gotten is more educated people are more likely to be anti-bertie.

Now I might be on the extreme end of things because I have never thought Bertie to be a good Taioseach. Mostly because we have come through a phase of economic boom and we have **** all to show for it. The biggest supporters of bertie that I know are filthy rich as a result of the building boom.

stepbar

stepbar wrote: »

Conor, we all remember your posts back this time last year. If needed I'll root them out.....

Please do. Because I'm not sure how you got the impression that I ever said he could 'do no wrong'. Here's something to help your memory...

When someone said he was negligent...in late 2006

Deleted User wrote: »

I would go a step further and say 'at best negligent, at worst fully aware of what was happening'.

Post election

Deleted User wrote: »

But the whole Bertie story was certainly not something planned by FF, he had to respond to a serious allegation made against him. And clearly the nature of his response got him out of the hole - though I still cannot fathom how or why...

When someone said he was Borrowing Bertie...

Deleted User wrote: »

You could possibly have stuck in a 'bungling' somewhere too! I wouldn't argue...

And it could have been written for you, again from last year...

Deleted User wrote: »

I've often said FF got things wrong, many things. I said Bertie should have gone last year. But I could say it 100 times, and I'll still get someone who doesn't know the first thing about FF (except that they hate them) saying 'you lot blindly follow Bertie and you lot never admit mistakes'...

redspider

edanto wrote: »

I was tempted to shout that at him earlier today outside the Dail.

Its a pity you and some others didnt boo. That would have sent him a clear message, left it ringing in his and other FF ears.

edanto wrote: »

"I have never received a corrupt payment"
For me, that's filed in the same place as:
"I never had sexual relations with that woman"

I thought exactly the same thing when Bertie said it. Even the body language was similar and the 'tells' were there. He obviously did receive payments, he knows that we know that, but whether they were corrupt payments or not is something that is subjective in his mind anyway. Likewise 'sexual relations' with Clinton. Clinton in his own mind did have sex with her, did get BJ's or whatever, but didnt have 'sexual relations' in his mind. Likewise with Bertie, they were payments, but to him they werent corrupt payments. Indeed he would be of the opinion that the money source was legitimate and the people with the money didnt get the money from corruption.

"I did not receive a corrupt payment from Eoin O'Callaghan"
=
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

[mod edit: stop anticipating Mahon's report! :mad:]

How did the people vote him/FF in last May, I just cant fathom!

Redspider

themont85

Willie Cool Hammock wrote: »

That really depends on where you are / who you are listening to. The (purely personal) impression that I have gotten is more educated people are more likely to be anti-bertie.

Now I might be on the extreme end of things because I have never thought Bertie to be a good Taioseach. Mostly because we have come through a phase of economic boom and we have **** all to show for it. The biggest supporters of bertie that I know are filthy rich as a result of the building boom.

Bit snoby there mate, although I don't really see your point because this is people in college i'm talking too who i'd hope have had some sort of education:rolleyes:. I don't neccesarily agree with them or the people phoning into radio stations. Its mainly people who follow politics such as the media/folks on this boards who said he should go, I'd agree too because the tribunals were affecting the work. Its just my point that the media/political folk are disconnected with the general puclic mood and use hyperboles in describing dissatisfaction.

ozt9vdujny3srf

Ok sorry you're right,what i mean to say is the more politically aware people that I know, tend to be anti-bertie. I think anybody, apart from members of Fiana Fail, can see the web of lies bertie has caught himself up in. And thats without any media spin at all.

tech77

themont85 wrote: »

Well we're the ultimate arbitrators of the leaders, not our media baying for blood. All we've been hearing these past weeks is that the public want Bertie to go but from what I've heard people are dissapointed. That shows a disconnection from the public imo.

Would the guy have gone if he/FF felt public support was as robust as ever.
There has been a definite slide in support for FF in the polls recently and this played its part in his departure.

Healio

Willie Cool Hammock wrote: »

the more politically aware people that I know, tend to be anti-bertie. I think anybody, apart from members of Fiana Fail, can see the web of lies bertie has caught himself up in. And thats without any media spin at all.

Classic case of bull****ting your way through a few sticky situations, then forgetting what your story actually was.

ninty9er

It is a great day and all previous 5 leaders had to resign at some point too. It's not like a resignation was never going to happen, even without the Planning Tribunal.

I would still defend Bertie, but I'm not angry or disappointed that he's gone. His heart hasn't been in the job recently and I think when something becomes a chore, it's time to give it up.

There is only 1 question that the Tribunal has to answer, and that is: does it believe that Bertie Ahern received money from Owen O'Callaghan in return for planning favours. Nobody has come anywhere near proving the answer to that is yes. Bertie is essentially a good man.

I was sad to see him go, but I'll be happy that the party can move on under a new leader. And to all the anti-FF people that seem to turn up on the internet (particularly FG supporters), take a look at the Sunday Business Post's Red C poll and see where Enda Kenny's popularity is at?

At least Enda tackled the Mahon issues with respect, dignity and compusure as opposed to those nut jobs Hayes and Varadkar...I rally can't see why he's THAT unpopular, but I still wouldn't like to see FG in power etc...

patmac

Read the title and thought it was about the return of Beverley Cheesy Grin who imo is one of the most loathsome politicians since her father, another great move by Fianna Fail still she get's votes from the Mayo electorate so I suppose it's worth it for them, another of the 'Let's get all the unpopular decisions out of the way in our 1st year in office so people will have forgotten them by the time the next election comes around' policy along with the pay increases etc.:rolleyes:

murphaph

patmac wrote: »

Read the title and thought it was about the return of Beverley Cheesy Grin who imo is one of the most loathsome politicians since her father, another great move by Fianna Fail still she get's votes from the Mayo electorate so I suppose it's worth it for them, another of the 'Let's get all the unpopular decisions out of the way in our 1st year in office so people will have forgotten them by the time the next election comes around' policy along with the pay increases etc.:rolleyes:

yup, and we the dopey electorate will probably fall for it, again.

HydeRoad

ninty9er wrote: »

There is only 1 question that the Tribunal has to answer, and that is: does it believe that Bertie Ahern received money from Owen O'Callaghan in return for planning favours. Nobody has come anywhere near proving the answer to that is yes. Bertie is essentially a good man.

You are standing over the bottom line of the tribunal, and that is the question into verifiably CORRUPT payments, which is basically correct.

However your last line beggars belief. Bertie as essentially a good man.

Answer this one point. The worst elements in power in Irish political life since the dawn of the Irish Free State came to prominence under Bertie's watch. Bertie PROMOTED very bad people to office, people who were known to be bad, people who were part of the Bertie/Haughey circle, people who went on to adversely affect the wellbeing of this country and it's citizens. When they were found out, Bertie supported them in the Dáil, long beyond the point where it was reasonable to do so. Most of these corrupt people came to grief, some even earning jail sentences, but certainly not because of any yearning in Bertie or Fianna Fáil to bring honesty and accountability into Irish politics. As a result, apathy among the general public, too large a percentage of whom do not vote at all. Which calls democracy into question.

Bertie PROMOTED bad people. He SUPPORTED them. And he bears RESPONSIBILITY for their despicable actions over ten wasted years of squandered boom and unbridled corruption. The present tribunal enquiries into Bertie's personal financial affairs will not lessen that rueful legacy.

dresden8

Bertie had to go because he couldn't shut Mahon down himself. Cowan will have to do that for him.

It also gets Cowan out of Finance before it's all buggered up and he has to take the rap for the state of the economy. He'll pass that poisoned chalice to somebody else.

It's also a good chance to get that yoke Flynn back into the party when everybody is distracted.

A happy co-incidence of events for the lads.

EamonnKeane

dresden8 wrote: »

Bertie had to go because he couldn't shut Mahon down himself. Cowan will have to do that for him.

Ah, the executive controlling the judiciary. What a great little country.