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Referendum called for a weekday

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  • 02-04-2008 9:06pm
    #1
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    The Lisbon Treaty referendum was just called for Thursday June 12th

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhojojidojau/rss2/

    Yet again, an important election/referendum has been called for a weekday and in the middle of student exams. I don't understand why people just allow this to happen? It's a patently obvious attempt to minimise the student vote.

    As I understand it, it is written into Spanish and French law that elections & referendums must happen on a Sunday. Moreover, citizens of these countries are allowed to vote at their embassies when abroad.

    Why isn't it like this in Ireland? How can we change this?


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    #2
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    I can't understand the logic of holding referenda or elections on weekdays other than to as you point out, minimise the student vote, (and to a lesser extent people that work away from home during the week).

    Why do the government seem to not want young people to vote?


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    #3
    PHB
    Registered Users Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Students tend to be more in favour of Europe than other people.

    That said, I do think FF actively don't want students to get involved in politics, because they are likely to just help out if there isn't exams on, and if they don't help out, they won't get involved, and since they tend to be disproportionately Labour and Green voters, never good.

    Nonetheless, from the point of view of the Lisbon treaty, silly thing to do. The larger the turnout, the more chance it has of passing. The No vote is pretty strong, but no voters are always gona vote no, while yes voters have to be lured to the polls.


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    #4
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    not again. they are probably just doing it because it gives all the civil servants a day off, whereas a Saturday would require them to, shock horror, work an extra day.


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    #5
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    leninbenjamin wrote: »
    not again. they are probably just doing it because it gives all the civil servants a day off, whereas a Saturday would require them to, shock horror, work an extra day.

    I'm sure they wouldn't mind too much if they got some overtime.


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    #6
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    They should give everyone a holiday, or at least a half day, to vote.

    You just have to get up extra early, but unfortunately so many people have a massive commute and so won't be around in the morning when the polls open, or at night when they close.

    Last election I got up an hour early, only to find my bike's tyres were flat, had to walk there and then get a crazy bus into work - arrived an hour late. 2 hours and a pain in my ass, to put in my vote. I'd do it again though.


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    #7
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Half a day, my arse.

    An extra hour of your day is all it should reasonably take if the polling stations are well situated.

    And I like weekdays. For starters, it means that I don't need to leave the house on a weekend, or otherwise interrupt my weekend plans.

    I'm out anyway. I can detour via the polling station on the way home from work. Or on the way into work.

    NTM


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    #8
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Half a day, my arse.

    An extra hour of your day is all it should reasonably take if the polling stations are well situated.

    And I like weekdays. For starters, it means that I don't need to leave the house on a weekend, or otherwise interrupt my weekend plans.

    I'm out anyway. I can detour via the polling station on the way home from work. Or on the way into work.

    NTM

    All well and good Manic but what about the many students and people working away from home during the week?


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    #9
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    All well and good Manic but what about the many students and people working away from home during the week?

    Since it's a referendum then surely changing where you're registered to vote would be the smart move? I can see why you mightn't want to do that for a general election, but for a referendum there's no real reason to stay in your "home" constituency.


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    #10
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    IRLConor wrote: »
    Since it's a referendum then surely changing where you're registered to vote would be the smart move? I can see why you mightn't want to do that for a general election, but for a referendum there's no real reason to stay in your "home" constituency.

    True enough, you could register in another constituency for a referendum. But why not make it easier and give all students studying away from home a postal vote if elections are held on weekdays.

    Or what about holding referendums and elections over two days, eg. friday and saturday?


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    #11
    EamonnKeane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 950 ✭✭✭EamonnKeane


    student exams in mid june? no they aren't, i'll be quarter-way through my four months holiday by then


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    #12
    Breezer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    EamonnKeane wrote: »
    student exams in mid june? no they aren't, i'll be quarter-way through my four months holiday by then
    Leaving Cert. Remember that thing? :p Less numbers involved though, and most will be living at home. Also Trinity exams go on for quite a while, although probably not that long.


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    #13
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    Ah, well spotted, I thought it was on May 12th.


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    #14
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    All well and good Manic but what about the many students and people working away from home during the week?

    A problem which many people have. I'm spending six months in Kentucky instead of my home State of California. The answer is the provision of an absentee vote. I think that's going to solve a lot more problems than moving the vote to a weekend.

    NTM


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    #15
    daithicarr
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭daithicarr


    the last election was also held mid week was it not and with very little advanced warning of the exact date, i went on holidays and there was no date set, and i came back and it was over and done.

    I recall when i was a student in university a number of important votes were during the week or near exam time when i could not possibly go home for them. i truely think the reason for this is a much larger than normal number of student voters, vote for other partys other than FF and PD (probably FF too) .

    also i know people from other countrys (such as spain) who can vote in their embassy. why cant we have that option.


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    #16
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    guinnessdrinker wrote: »
    True enough, you could register in another constituency for a referendum. But why not make it easier and give all students studying away from home a postal vote if elections are held on weekdays.

    Or what about holding referendums and elections over two days, eg. friday and saturday?

    TBH, the real solution is a proper postal vote system.


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    #17
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    daithicarr wrote: »
    also i know people from other countrys (such as spain) who can vote in their embassy. why cant we have that option.

    Number of Irish Citizens in Ireland, 4 million.

    Number of people holding Irish Passports, abroad, 44 million.

    Do you really want Irish Elections settled by a vast Diaspora across the globe?


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    #18
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Number of Irish Citizens in Ireland, 4 million.

    Number of people holding Irish Passports, abroad, 44 million.

    Do you really want Irish Elections settled by a vast Diaspora across the globe?

    I know that millions of people around the world claim Irish heritage, but do they all have passports? (I know they can, but have they followed it through?)


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    #19
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Diogenes wrote: »
    Number of Irish Citizens in Ireland, 4 million.

    Number of people holding Irish Passports, abroad, 44 million.

    Do you really want Irish Elections settled by a vast Diaspora across the globe?

    Hmm. Are Irish parties allowed to accept funding from them?

    intrigued,
    Scofflaw


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    #20
    Diogenes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Diogenes


    IRLConor wrote: »
    I know that millions of people around the world claim Irish heritage, but do they all have passports? (I know they can, but have they followed it through?)

    My mistake actually. 44 million is the figure for the potential Irish Passport holders. People who if they applied for Irish Nationality by heritage, (ie a grandparent is Irish) they would receive it. Source wikipedia

    The number of actual Irish citizens abroad is massive though. Nearly a million Irish citizens live in the UK alone according the 2001 census. If allowed the vote they would radically effect the outcome of any general election or referendum.


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    #21
    Chakar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭Chakar


    I'm a student in UCD and all UCD exams are finished on 30th May. I'm finished my exams on the 15th May. As a result I will be able to canvass for a 'Yes' vote with my fellow Fianna Fáil members for a good while.


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    #22
    daithicarr
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭daithicarr


    why shouldnt we be allowed to vote if we are out of the country for a while? if i am away for 2 years working, who gets voted into office will have an effect on my life when i get back.


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    #23
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    You are. You just have to come back here for election day.


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    #24
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Chakar wrote: »
    I'm a student in UCD and all UCD exams are finished on 30th May. I'm finished my exams on the 15th May. As a result I will be able to canvass for a 'Yes' vote with my fellow Fianna Fáil members for a good while.

    Wow. Great. Congratulations. It suits you. Fantastic.

    What about the many people that it doesn't suit? Typical Fianna Fail attitude: sure I'm grand, what are the rest of you complaining about??


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    #25
    nhughes100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭nhughes100


    Preach on. Now if only we could vote electronically, oh wait a minute......


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    #26
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    nhughes100 wrote: »
    Preach on. Now if only we could vote electronically, oh wait a minute......

    Not just no, but hell no! I have the skills and experience necessary to audit electronic voting machines (if given sufficient access to them) but most people do not. Do ye all really want to use a voting machine you don't understand? Is it fair to the average punter to require them to trust that someone else has audited the system? The current system is a) good enough and b) auditable by every voter, why would you want to change?


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    #27
    nhughes100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 845 ✭✭✭nhughes100


    I don't want a change, it was a joke.


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    #28
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    nhughes100 wrote: »
    I don't want a change, it was a joke.

    Oh, OK. Sorry, my mistake.


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    #29
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Having the election on a weekday could be a double edged knife. Ill personally be knee deep in the Leaving Cert exams at that time, but have the twelfth off.

    Very few Leaving Certs will be voting at all, and my opinion is that those who vote will be:
    • Moral Obligations: who feel it is their civil duty to vote. Probably mostly YES votes as they would be passive
    • Those with strong opinions (such as me). These, like me, will probably vote NO, as no one would really be extremely for the treaty (whereas there are definitely extremists against it)

    Plus people might want to punish the BERT for taking money, this treaty is probably a main cause for his resignation. If a NO vote is passed it will basically be lie a bullet to his future in politics.


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    #30
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    turgon wrote: »
    Those with strong opinions (such as me). These, like me, will probably vote NO, as no one would really be extremely for the treaty (whereas there are definitely extremists against it)

    You should vote on the substance of the Treaty, not who is for or against it.

    I'm currently leaning towards voting yes for the Treaty. This isn't due to any extreme feelings either way, it's just that having read a large portion of the Treaty it's a broadly positive thing for the EU. So far, the "extremists" (as you call them) who are campaigning for a no vote appear (to me) to be campaigning either on the basis of misunderstanding the Treaty or by deliberately spreading FUD about it to further their own political goals.
    turgon wrote: »
    Plus people might want to punish the BERT for taking money, this treaty is probably a main cause for his resignation.

    I would really hope that no-one would vote against the Lisbon Treaty on the basis that it would "punish" Bertie. Apart from being petty, it won't punish Bertie in the slightest if the No campaign wins.

    The main cause for his resignation is the effect the tribunal is having on the reputation and credibility of the government. He's jumping now rather than dragging the government down with him later.

    Good luck in your exams.


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    #31
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    IRLConor wrote: »
    Those with strong opinions (such as me). These, like me, will probably vote NO, as no one would really be extremely for the treaty (whereas there are definitely extremists against it)
    You should vote on the substance of the Treaty, not who is for or against it.

    I'm currently leaning towards voting yes for the Treaty. This isn't due to any extreme feelings either way, it's just that having read a large portion of the Treaty it's a broadly positive thing for the EU. So far, the "extremists" (as you call them) who are campaigning for a no vote appear (to me) to be campaigning either on the basis of misunderstanding the Treaty or by deliberately spreading FUD about it to further their own political goals.

    To be fair, turgon is not voting because of extremists - he's just pointing out a concrete fact, which is that those on the No side tend to have very strongly held opinions about the EU/the Treaty - whether rightly or wrongly - and that he falls into that description himself.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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