Should Ireland have bait cars?

SV

Haven't seen anything on this and yes I did do a search..sorry if I missed it.


Anyway, as far as I know Ireland doesn't have bait cars?

If you're not familiar with this they're simply cars left there that would be easy enough to steal and when they're stolen they have tracker systems on them and the police are waiting down the road for the car to be stolen etc..when it happens the police are on them and they're arrested.


Do you think Ireland should have them?
Personally I think it would be a great idea..a nice detterent to stealing a car as they'd never really know?

astraboy

Think they are a good idea but do we have the resources to do it? Plus, it would be pointless unless judges start cracking down HARD on car crime. If the poilce put in all the effort only for the scrote to be let go with a small fine it would be a futile exercise.

Kintarō Hattori

Absolutely. Like yourself I think their a great idea and believe they should be introduced, BUT, you know it's never going to happen here for the foreseeable future.

eringobragh

Yes without a doubt they should us them..and a remote control onboard so the guards can crash it into a nice brick wall (airbags disabled of course) and blame the thieving scum on it.

Seth Brundle

The gardai probably don't have time to manufacture new crimes what will all the current ones happening

S.I.R

yeah i ireland should but no Real criminal steals say , a honda civic or starlet , only small timers , the good cars are the ones you wanna start ( bmws , mercs audis etc ) which the police can't catch till its too late.


besides most cars these days just get a brick through the window and there change in the window stolen....

DublinDilbert

S.I.R wrote: »

yeah i ireland should but no Real criminal steals say , a honda civic or starlet , only small timers , the good cars are the ones you wanna start ( bmws , mercs audis etc ) which the police can't catch till its too late.


besides most cars these days just get a brick through the window and there change in the window stolen....

But when you hear of court cases where the guy gets a suspended sentence for joy-riding, and has 50 previous convictions for robbing cars and joy riding, you would wonder what the point is.... Is one more conviction going to stop him? not a chance.... the system is completely wrong in this country.... Robbing a car should be treated as a very serious offence, it is after all a lethal weapon.

Stealdo

While we're at it, why don't we leave bags of money lying around with guards watching them so we can catch all the thieves?
Or maybe leave syringes full of heroin to catch the drug users?

This is called entrapment. I don't know if it has a basis in Irish Law, but it is a vary shady practise legally.

faceman

Stealdo wrote: »

While we're at it, why don't we leave bags of money lying around with guards watching them so we can catch all the thieves?
Or maybe leave syringes full of heroin to catch the drug users?

This is called entrapment. I don't know if it has a basis in Irish Law, but it is a vary shady practise legally.

Its not the done thing in Ireland. i.e. you cant convict someone over a "controlled drop" (which i believe is the official name for it in ireland?) Odd really that we cant.

javaboy

I don't know about the legality of the bait car approach but I would like to see unmarked Garda cars have L plates occasionally. They would nail so many people for dangerous overtaking and tailgating. Slightly off topic but similar idea.


On the controlled drop thing being illegal, what's the difference between monitoring a stretch of road where people are known to break the speed limit and monitoring a car that is likely to be stolen?

EL_Loco

maybe someone here also saw the program where they left keys in the door of a car in a dodgy area in the UK. 2 characters of low moral fibre took the chance to hop in and drive off, only when they turned the ignition the doors locked and the car started to fill with foam. didn't leave them too long in it, but it was funny all the same.

Hellm0

Not a bad idea actually, though I prefer the concept with a few minor changes.

1) No Garda involvement.
2) When the car engine starts the doors lock and the car doesnt move.
3) Sleep inducing gas is pumped into the cabin.
4) Skumbag gets dragged out in the morning and treated to a SAW style torture regime.
5) Body gets put on display in his home estate/area with a sign indicating the criminal's intent and the name of his/her parents in large print as mark of shame.

My poor Mitsubishi Colt was broken into countless time's by deviant little c*nt's so excuse me if the proposed solution seems harsh.

L-M

Stealdo wrote: »

This is called entrapment. I don't know if it has a basis in Irish Law, but it is a vary shady practise legally.

Funnily enough, i was havin a conversation with a Sargent Garda and he said that while entrapment is legal in England, any many other places, it's illegal in Ireland.

Tipsy Mac

Would be far better to have immobilisers a requirement for all cars to pass the NCT, this would eleminate almost all oportunist car crime.

pwd

It is entrapment alright.
And I don't think it would be a real deterrent. The type of people who go joyriding are looking for kicks and aren't concerened about convictions. Being chased by guards is major kudos to them, and having traps like this might just pique their interest. And intentionally making a car easy and appealing to steal just encourages someone to rob t and go joyriding anyway.

cyclopath2001

ClioV6 wrote: »

If you're not familiar with this they're simply cars left there that would be easy enough to steal and when they're stolen they have tracker systems on them and the police are waiting down the road for the car to be stolen etc..when it happens the police are on them and they're arrested.

I can see this being self-financing if the police do a deal with the TV networks to sell them the footage of the thieves taken by hidden cameras in the cars.

But, fitting all cars with GPS transponders would be much more effective. The hardware is getting quite cheap and so are the operational costs. This technology would help locate stolen cars more quickly and there would be fantastic spin-off benefits in effective policing of general motorist discipline and in monitoring insurance risks.

Some systems are capable of safely disabling the car via a remote command sent over the data connection. It could be the end of those high-speed chase videos.

eringobragh

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

I can see this being self-financing if the police do a deal with the TV networks to sell them the footage of the thieves taken by hidden cameras in the cars.

But, fitting all cars with GPS transponders would be much more effective. The hardware is getting quite cheap and so are the operational costs. This technology would help locate stolen cars more quickly and there would be fantastic spin-off benefits in effective policing of general motorist discipline and in monitoring insurance risks.

Some systems are capable of safely disabling the car via a remote command sent over the data connection. It could be the end of those high-speed chase videos.

No thanks. Rather not have big brother watching when i pull in or a piss. Anyways ever heard of a GPS jammer :rolleyes: . There cheap and they work

nialler

Entrapment ahem isn't legal over here but it's done. My friend was on his way to cork heading down the m7/m9 car passes him in the right lane, pulls in front of him and slows to 75mph (in old money when it happened), so guys sitting there in front of him, he spots it's an unmarked car and slows down to match speed (was doing 80ish, we're all guilty of pushing it slightly) and the guy behind him promptly gets impatient and rips by the pair of them, car in front pops the blue and reds on and pulls the guy over, that's entrapment.

cyclopath2001

eringobragh wrote: »

No thanks. Rather not have big brother watching when i pull in or a piss. Anyways ever heard of a GPS jammer :rolleyes: . There cheap and they work

The technology is already successfully used in hire cars, high-value cars and with high-value consignments. Costs are coming down. So, I think it's just a matter of time the technology will be in general use. For private motorists, the carrot would be lower insurance premiums. For reps, their employers will probably insist on it for company cars for H&S and administrative reasons.

faceman

nialler wrote: »

Entrapment ahem isn't legal over here but it's done. My friend was on his way to cork heading down the m7/m9 car passes him in the right lane, pulls in front of him and slows to 75mph (in old money when it happened), so guys sitting there in front of him, he spots it's an unmarked car and slows down to match speed (was doing 80ish, we're all guilty of pushing it slightly) and the guy behind him promptly gets impatient and rips by the pair of them, car in front pops the blue and reds on and pulls the guy over, that's entrapment.

thats not entrapment. Nobody "tricked" yer man into speeding.

Zapp Brannigan

javaboy wrote: »

I don't know about the legality of the bait car approach but I would like to see unmarked Garda cars have L plates occasionally. They would nail so many people for dangerous overtaking and tailgating. Slightly off topic but similar idea.

I've lost count of the amount of times that I've been overtaken by people while I'm doing the speed limit on a solid white line. Would be great to see Gardai pulling the w*nkers over.

dubstub

faceman wrote: »

thats not entrapment. Nobody "tricked" yer man into speeding.

Entrapment doesn't mean tricking someone. It means creating a situation which encourages someone to commit an offense where that person may not have committed the offense otherwise.
The common example is the female cop posing as a prostitute and offering a guy sex for cash. That guy may not have been looking to solicit so it's entrapment.
In the example above, the car behind may not have sped if the Garda car didn't pull into the lane in front and start slowing down - though, I admit, it would be a harder case to prove.

Stealdo

dubstub wrote: »

In the example above, the car behind may not have sped if the Garda car didn't pull into the lane in front and start slowing down - though, I admit, it would be a harder case to prove.

that's pushing the bounds of may not have - the guy said that the cop car slowed to 75 MPH while the speedlimits were still in MPH so no limit higher than 70 in the country, he would have had to be speeding already just to keep up with the cop car. Driving at or slightly above the speed limit is not providing someone with an opportunity to break the law or encouraging them to.

cyclopath2001

faceman wrote: »

thats not entrapment. Nobody "tricked" yer man into speeding.

That reminds of how many years ago I was on a long drive from the north back to Dublin. Got stuck behind a car doing 30mph in a village. I 'jumped' him some 200 metres before the 40mph sign and put the foot down and bombed past the annoying eejit at 50+. I felt really cool at the time.

Ticket arrived promptly.

Lesson learned.