Some clearence on the reloading issue???

Grizzly 45

Has anyone seen the letter in this months Irish Shooters Digest from a Garrett Byrne,PO of the DOJ,St Stephens Green Dublin2??

Have enclosed this in file format..

All i can say on this one is...You gotta wonder somtimes what color is the sky on the planet these people are on..:rolleyes:

foxshooter243

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Has anyone seen the letter in this months Irish Shooters Digest from a Garrett Byrne,PO of the DOJ,St Stephens Green Dublin2??

Have enclosed this in file format..

All i can say on this one is...You gotta wonder somtimes what color is the sky on the planet these people are on..:rolleyes:

"super loads"

johngalway

"...in certain circumstances..."

Well that says it all. Bah humbug.

Heads up their you know whats.

Mellor

A concern that criminal types might use reloading to create armour piercing or improved ballistic rounds is pretty piss weak.
Firstly, if they needed armour rounds then they could likely import anyway,
Secondly, if they did wish to reload (unlikely given that the knowledge is likely lacking) then I doubt that they would give a seconds thought to the legality of it.

chem

One interesting point on the explosives act is that there is NO mention of a minimum amount of explosive that can be stored without the use of a magazine and other items listed for storage of explosives.

What I mean is how come I can have a box of 50 .22 rounds containing cordite/nitrocellulose (an explosive substance under the law) and not need an explosive licence as by law I should have one.

I have said it before if the government makes it so hard for lawfull use of reloading it will go underground, and so make criminals out of people who would not normaly break the law.

The same laws apply for fireworks and we all know how well that works every halloween:p

Grizzly 45

Did anyone pick up in the contradiction in the letter???
One side they said there is significant risk of overloading resulting in risk of death or injury.Next paragraph they are saying criminals & Co could overload the shells to get maximum ballistic effect with AP rounds!!!
So if you are a criminal,the laws of physics dont apply to you in Ireland????Guess no other laws do either...:rolleyes:

I dont know where they get their info regarding finding it difficult to trace reloaded rounds at a crime scene. Jill Dando murder case springs to mind.
Any competant CSI tech will be able to tell you the difference between loaded and reloaded ammo.

High level of training...Sheesh somthing like 80 million plus Americans must be total idiots as they dont have any training in reloading,apart from people showing them how to,or watching a DVD.

BOHICA. Bend Over Here It Comes Again......:eek:

Sandy22

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

........... from a Garrett Byrne,PO of the DOJ,St Stephens Green Dublin2.............

Chairman of the FCP, I'm told.

Sparks

And the most progressive person we've ever seen in the DoJ.
I'd not yell too loud until they're actually discussing the reloading in the FCP - the main worry is training, and that's the point of the reloading licence.

rrpc

Could I make a suggestion here?

I know the square root of feck all about reloading, and I've been shooting for almost thirty years. I would assume that anyone in the department of justice would know the square root of what I know, so instead of throwing up the hands and bemoaning their 'presumed' ignorance, why don't the people who do know something about the subject address the points made in that article. In a polite and friendly manner of course

Maybe they don't read boards, but maybe they do

btw, I'll play the role of the DoJ to anyone who replies

Grizzly 45

There is plenty of people rrpc out there who could talk to them about this...However will they be listened to and will the FCP take it aboard???

How does a Joe Average get his point across to people like this??You can write letters,emails and phone till you are bankrupt. You might get a polite return letter ,
basiclly saying,[politely of course] your singular unimportant opinion has been noted,now sod off and let more intelligent burrocrats decide whats best for you and the rest of the sheep out there!!
I mean isnt this the job of our elected repersentatives of our various shooting bodies who are on this panel???to find this info out,disseminate it and counter propose??? We are paying them to do somthing aren't we??

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

There is plenty of people rrpc out there who could talk to them about this...However will they be listened to and will the FCP take it aboard???

How does a Joe Average get his point across to people like this??You can write letters,emails and phone till you are bankrupt. You might get a polite return letter ,

I made a suggestion for you (or anyone with the knowledge) to reply here to their points. Apart from educating those in the DoJ, I personally would like to know the answers (if there are any).

I mean isnt this the job of our elected repersentatives of our various shooting bodies who are on this panel???to find this info out,disseminate it and counter propose??? We are paying them to do somthing aren't we??

Who exactly are you paying Grizzly? AFAIK, pretty much every shooting association on the FCP is run by unpaid volunteers.

chem

Garrett Byrne 01 479 0221 (DOJ)

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmniaf/548/4110331.htm

Number posted on public site listed above:)

Grizzly 45

NARGC perhaps????Belive Des C is on the board???

You Do pay a membership for your club/ organisation so whoever they sent or elected to the FCPmust be getting some sort of renmeration???

I can gladly answer some questions RR ,but it will take more than a few days to post this up and where to then with it??

Think you have the wrong link there Chem.... National comittee on inter cultural racisim in the UK???

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

NARGC perhaps????Belive Des C is on the board???

Des is full time right enough, but to be fair, the NARGC wouldn't run into the reloading issue that much.

You Do pay a membership for your club/ organisation so whoever they sent or elected to the FCPmust be getting some sort of renmeration???

I'm a member of the NTSA and the NASRC and I can tell you that no-one on those committees is paid a cent. The money is used to send people overseas for competitions, pay international affiliations, audit fees (that one particularly annoys me because there is no other choice for sporting bodies), coaching, prizes for national competitions and bank charges.

I just happened to have the NTSA accounts on my desk from the last AGM

I can gladly answer some questions RR ,but it will take more than a few days to post this up and where to then with it??

Lets start with the answers. Post them here and lets all debate them, have them properly assembled and I'll email them to the NTSA and SSAI reps. They may already know this stuff, but then again, there's no such thing as having too much information. :cool:

chem

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Think you have the wrong link there Chem.... National comittee on inter cultural racisim in the UK???

No look down the page his name and DOJ number is on it as a contact number

Know Racism was a three year public awareness programme which aimed to contribute to creating the conditions for building an inclusive and intercultural society in Ireland, where racism is addressed and cultural diversity is valued. Additional information is available on the campaign's website: www.knowracism.ie. A final evaluation of Know Racism is currently being conducted by Siobhan Lynam. The Equal Status Unit of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform would be able to provide you with additional detail about this evaluation, Garrett Byrne can he contacted on +353 (0)1 479 0221

Maybe he has changed departments???

Sparks

He came to the DoJ firearms department from the anti-racism programme chem.

Traumadoc

Has anyone been able to get through to this number?

Gunter Mauser

"Explode if confined Danger" Hmmmm. Cook Off more like a firework!

Confined in Shed Danger!

Lawn mower petrol stored in shed, not sealed properly. Hot summers day, vapour build up. Ignition accidentally triggered. Result no shed, localized dammage possibly fatal consequences.

Confined under the stairs!

Camping gas stored under the stairs after trip, slow gas leak not detected!
Result blow out! possible fire.

Confined home gas leak!

Gas cooker / fire leak, resulting in large amount of gas build up. Gas ignited.
Result, house / houses demolished, possible deaths, highly lightly.

Common sense used with any flammable dangerous / hazardous products along with following the manufactures instructions should be followed at all times.

Everything we do has some risk attached to it, from driving the car, deep frying chips the list is endless. Someone who reloads is someone who is serous about perfecting the ammunition they use to advance the sport they love! This type of person tends to be diligent with the abality to use good common sense, they do not take risks. If reloading carried with it such possible high risks as alluded to in the Digest article, then this unsafe practice would not be practiced world wide including the nothern part of this Island.
Does the NRA have any study results on reloading accidents from the practice of reloading.

Reloading used for armored piercing bullet cartridge manufacture!

This would be a red herring if you don't mind me saying.
Simply take one cartridge replace the std bullet with one Armoured Piercing Bullet acquired illegally from outside the state, obtained from some security/ military forces manufacturer / supplier,this approach to obtain AP bullet heads to "reload" is far fetched and a load of... mumbo jumbo!
Facts would suggests the import of AP ammo will be the same rat run as ever via the ports, shipped in with a consignment of drugs. Does anyone think drug dealers / drug takers will waste time learning the process of reloading when this type of ammunation pre loaded ready to go "could be shipped in" provoided it can be sourced in the first place.

SUPER LOADS!

Don't do it don't even try! If someone wants to risk a case burst while the cartridge is chambered
with a super load of extra propellant, run for cover as they are fools! If for some reason extra powerful ammunation is needed then you need to licence for a more powerful firearm.


Reloading propellant used for improvised explosive devices.

The makers of this type of devices at the moment appear to be using shotgun case powder for this pourpose along with other materials, match heads etc, as this type of propellant is slow burning its explosive effect is not be as forceful as conventional high explosive used in hand grenades. The internet is a source of pipe bomb devolvement for increased potency,step by step terrorist manuals apparently show you how to use domestic & easily available products to make what is in effect homemade explosive many times more powerful than "reloading propellant"
More worrying the use of imported hand grenades / rpg rockets and other lethal hardware available from Eastern Europe is becoming more commonly used by Gangs for Turf War Battles.
In summary reloading powder does not appear to be something to get worried about, If it didpose a real and present treat, then the Brittish authorities who have more genuine terrorist fears
than us would ban the sale of reloaders propellant to the shooting community and that would bethe end of it.

Hope for rational debate & thinking.

Sikamick

Gunter Mauser : Re your posting I hope the powers that be are looking in and see that as you have stated it is not from the person/persons that would like to legally and legitimate reload that the treat is, but from the criminal element which they are already keeping an eye on.


Gunter Mauser you make a lot of sense in your posting I wish some of the people that post on this forum made a much sense.

dimebag249

Criminals with armour piercing super bullets. It's a problem alright... I know, why not refuse reloading applications from criminals! Maybe even prosecute those who use firearms for criminal ends! Crazy, I know, but that would mean they wouldn't need to punish the rest of us for what a criminal might do.

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

Gunter Mauser you make a lot of sense in your posting I wish some of the people that post on this forum made a much sense.

Indeed

Gunter Mauser

Please be aware that said one pound containers of propellant are sold
in plastic containers then futher stored in a locked heavy wooden cabinet
to avoid the risk of any static build up! Outside shed of block construction preferably should do the job nicely!

One pound of propellant stored in this situation poses no risk and is far more safe and less volatile by a factor several times less than petrol for the lawn mower.:)

chem

Sparks wrote: »

He came to the DoJ firearms department from the anti-racism programme chem.

lucky old us:rolleyes:

chem

The point on black powder is rubbish to. Real black powder is pritty prone to what he says but noone uses black powder much now that pyrodex or tripple7 are around.

Sparks

To be fair chem, I've met the man. He's not anti-gun, he's not unreasonable, and while he doesn't have decades of experience with firearms like we would have, he's not thick either. We could do far, far worse (and have in the past).

chem

Sparks wrote: »

To be fair chem, I've met the man. He's not anti-gun, he's not unreasonable, and while he doesn't have decades of experience with firearms like we would have, he's not thick either. We could do far, far worse (and have in the past).

Maybe your right sparks, but from his letter printed in the SD he seems to have made his mind up already.

So has he been directed by the minister of justice to introduce these measures or is it his call?

Its all worded in a very nanny state approach. And alot of what the DoJ seem to think about the dangers of reloading come right out of the new rambo film.

Again the lose wording, used to write the firearms laws, are been used against licence holders and I can see it all in the high courts again, if they proceed in the way they seem to be going.

Gunter Mauser

If all the facts are offered to this man in a well crafted document that
clearly show up some of the misconceptions about what exactly is involved in the process of reloading, a lot of the scandalmongers who don't know what exactly is involved but think they do will get an education that debugs the myths once and for all.:)

chem

Gunter Mauser wrote: »

If all the facts are offered to this man in a well crafted document that
clearly show up some of the misconceptions about what exactly is involved in the process of reloading, a lot of the scandalmongers who don't know what exactly is involved but think they do will get an education that debugs the myths once and for all.:)

Thats true GM but who is telling the DoJ the misinformation in the 1st place? They have to be getting there info from somewhere. So if a letter is sent in from us "shooters" whos info is it contradicting? Is it the firearms dept, army,ferensics or all the above? They will not listen to anything we have to say if its other government depts who are saying different.

patbundy

chem wrote: »

Thats true GM but who is telling the DoJ the misinformation in the 1st place? They have to be getting there info from somewhere. So if a letter is sent in from us "shooters" whos info is it contradicting? Is it the firearms dept, army,ferensics or all the above? They will not listen to anything we have to say if its other government depts who are saying different.

good point chem ,i think we would all like to know

Sparks

chem wrote: »

Maybe your right sparks, but from his letter printed in the SD he seems to have made his mind up already.
So has he been directed by the minister of justice to introduce these measures or is it his call?

The thing about working in the DoJ is that if you write a letter on behalf of the DoJ, you're writing on behalf of the Minister. So I would want to talk to him before figuring out if the letter started with him or started higher up.

Traumadoc

interesting discussions in Canada.

http://www.nfa.ca/content/view/247/199/