Some clearence on the reloading issue???

It wasn't me!

Sikamick wrote: »

Good idea one book each page colour coded, rifle-pistol-shotgun-reloading.

And the beauty of it, the printers that produce the european passport
already have the template just change the text. And valid for three years.:):):)

That, if the DoJ accepted it, isn't a bad idea at all Mick, and quite possibly the viable way to do the three-year licences anyway, with detail pages for rifles, pistols, shotguns and reloading arrangements if any. It would be a lot easier to track as well, a lot neater, especially for guys with multiple firearms. To be honest, it could even be done on one page in subsections (After all, who has more firearms than that here?), with conditions, endorsements and the like (possibly a text copy of the firearms act and wildlife act?) making up the rest of the booklet, which would be a neat and handy feature and leave a lot of people better informed.

Grizzly 45

It isa good idea..Anything to make life easier.Now how do we sell it to the DOJ???after we are just "mere civillians" who dont know anything...:rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

Well, writing to the SSAI would be a good start, as it doesn't go straight to the top without getting help in framing the proposal, and the FCP can get hold of it then if it's given merit, and then it's on the table with the DoJ anyway. Besides, I imagine they know it's being discussed here. Too many "guest" watchers on here constantly for people not to be keeping an eye on the place in my opinion, far more than other fora.

Gunter Mauser

+;);););) only too right IWM.

Sikamick

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

It isa good idea..Anything to make life easier.Now how do we sell it to the DOJ???after we are just "mere civillians" who dont know anything...:rolleyes:

Grizzly45 I am sure that this forum is monitored and also sure that the DOJ are aware that we are intelligent, sensible people. Please give credit to the fact that they are intelligent also.

If you feel that the DOJ might not be picking up the good ideas/suggestions that shooting people are posting, then contact you local Governing body or write to the chairperson of the FCP and put your thoughts to him or even Devore and ask him to put your/our ideas to the FCP/DOJ.

Grizzly 45

Sikamick wrote: »

Grizzly45 I am sure that this forum is monitored and also sure that the DOJ are aware that we are intelligent, sensible people.

THAT Would be a FIRST here ever Sickamick....That Irish gunowners are considerd intelligent by the DOJ/Gardai... Where did this wonderous conversion of burrocratic thinking come about???Whatever next...That the Dept of enviroment consider motorists intelligent and listen to them complain about pot holed roads??

Please give credit to the fact that they are intelligent also.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sorry after rading their concerns RE Reloading and that they cant tell the difference between a select fire weapon and a civillian semi auto lookalike and seem to think silencers are commonly used in real life hits by every hitman.I WILL take that last comment with a BIG pinch of salt if you dont mind.

If you feel that the DOJ might not be picking up the good ideas/suggestions that shooting people are posting, then contact you local Governing body or write to the chairperson of the FCP and put your thoughts to him or even Devore and ask him to put your/our ideas to the FCP/DOJ.

I dont think my local body the IPSA is actually flavour of the month in the DOJ at the moment.Seeing that the intelligent people in the DOJ seem to think dynamic shooting is some form of terrorist training,and that shooting must be done at static targets etc. Unless we are putting an agreed statement forward,I think it is pointless firing off well drafted individual emails letters etc in the hope one person will read them.This is now where the FCP should be making it's voice heard.

It wasn't me!

Grizzly45, you do yourself and your sport no favours sitting behind your computer complaining that "Ah, shur the DoJ are a shower of eejits anyway, what would they know?!". If you want your point of view represented, write a letter to the SSAI. The powers what be do watch this forum, you could bet money on it, and how would you react to someone you're supposed to be working with scribbling all over the internet about how incompetent you are, how much better qualified they are and how they should be doing your job? I imagine you'd be pretty peeved, as would I, and I for one certainly wouldn't be inclined to help them out much, so if you're not willing to write that letter and sit back and wait, stop injuring the cause of bodies like the FCP who aren't just sitting on their collective hole waging keyboard war and let them get on with their objectives, which are your objectives ultimately, which they're doing for you, without getting the backs of those whose cooperation they need up.

Grizzly 45

Well itb wasnt me ...If YOU think the DOJ are such nice guys and are SOOO Cooperative with Irish gunowners and Soo helpful. and have put up with the BS we have had to for the last 35 plus years and the nonsenseical comments and ideas these people come up with..Well then I suggest you seriously question your outlook on your sport and on your govt and country!!. I have lived here long enough to realise that Irish Govtsand politicans say alot more than their prayers and a 180degrees the opposite that they promise.

If the shoe fits wear it!!!There is a marvellous device called the internet where anyone can find out information about just about everything.That includes the DOJ,[if they could be botherd].
If you think sucking up there will get you anything.It wont!! They are civil servants.Operative words CIVIL Servants.IE there to SERVE US.Not vise versa.:(. I have dealt with them long before Boards.ie and this is why I use the term "mere civillians" As this is what I was told Irish gunowners were from a minister of Justice in the 1980s.That has always stuck with me and I really dont think that attitude has changed much up there...

I have written more letters to the DOJ before the internet was ever invented when we were using stamps pen and paper and ink!!About shooting in Ireland,it got us sweet FK ALL!! Iwill write to SSAI and then what......????Will you,will each and every man jack of us on this board???
Will it be taken aboard by FCP or DOJ. Dont pin your hopes to much on our FCP remember they are ADVISORY.That does not mean DOJ has to TAKE it.....

So to finish of this critique Lets say I'm from Missouri..I'll belive all this wonderous and beautifull happy clappy good times Irish gunowners will have withthe DOJ and Gardai and us all happilly holding hands.WHEN I SEE IT!!! Until then I reserve my right as an Irish citizen to critizise a govt body who is paid by OUR taxes and is NOT repersenting us or our concerns very well.. DOJ TAKE NOTE!!

It wasn't me!

It's the ridiculous "fite da powah" attitude you display that's the problem. It's really not a good representation of a group of reasonable people willing to work with the DoJ, give them the information they need to best make decisions, review proposals with them, make proposals for legislation in view of the sports and such. Seriously, snide comments here do absolutely nothing. Write to the SSAI if you want. Recently, we had our questions recorded here, word for word, and submitted to the DoJ, which I thought was pretty fantastic, frankly. You can do this the exact same way we do everything political in this country, that being you can write letters and e-mails and engage in rational discussion with whosoever you please and make a good case for this, but if things don't turn out exactly how you want, do everyone else a favour and keep the toys in the pram.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I have written more letters to the DOJ before the internet was ever invented when we were using stamps pen and paper and ink!!About shooting in Ireland,it got us sweet FK ALL!

For a guy who's been doing all this sooooo much longer than all of us, you seem to forget the rolling back of the licence fee hike rather rapidly. As well as not having noticed that the FCP is something that has never happened before.

Grizzly 45

And HOW PRECISELY do you propose that John J Scmuck gets his singular opinion across to this agust body???Your letters have to be read,considerd and evaulated to have any value.What grauentee do you have that yours will be read or considerd??Singulary or in a group??

We made an exellent attempt last year with the grassroots liscense fee increase protest.Noted by all, and in the middle of an election year....but was much done about it???Some cock&bull story about living standards increases[IE we are all rolling in it,shure fleece them shooters.] E66 per gun per three years.Still no one man one liscense came from it.Any reasons given to us or the FCP???

Have you seen any answers posted here yet from this reasonable body the DOJ???Sorry.. I must have missed them! And you expect them to take an idea sensible and all on how the firearms liscense should look like when they wont even bother replying to the posted questions within areasonable timeframe???

I am keeping my toys in the pram.Because I know we wont have them for much longer to play with..If you think this is going to be an easy cake walk with ration al discussion and these people taking in your advice and opinions and considering them and actually adding them to law.Then I think you are suffering from delusion.

As for the fite de powah attitude.I am not fighting anything.I am stating a few simple home truths.

You are dealing with people who do not want to take responsibility for decisions should somthing go wrong.

Who because of their positions and training think they know better than the mob they must control.

Who have an abominable record of dealing with gun ownership and firearms matters over the last 35 years thru sucessive govts.The IRA and N Ireland excuse cuts no ice with me or should with anyone involved in shooting here.It has now been upgraded to criminals and law and order excuse.

A collective dare I say backwardness,whendealing with as subject they are supposed to be in charge of.The practical pistol matter being a prime example.
I suppose they think game hunters wear tweed caps ,plus 4s and monocoles and sprout handlebar mustaches ,shoot only bespoke double barrell SXS shotguns and say" I say jolly good shot what?":rolleyes:
Because this is the attitude that seems to emanate from that dept.

There is NO MORE EXCUSE for a Govt dept[especially] to be so backward on these kinds of issues with modern day internet communications.
And I hate to say it..They do show themselves up to be very ignorant of facts and knowledge that any competant 12 year old could find for itself or them if need be.

We are putting too much faith in an advisory body,repersenting more or less our intrests in shooting.But have no legislative teeth,or any method of putting across their point more forcefully thanadvise.Dont get me wrong they are doing afine job with what little they have.But what do we do if the DOJ says thanks lads,now go and play with your guns as your opinionsare noted.But we will make up our own minds and like it or lump it.

Reality Bites.I'd love to be proven wrong.But I think July 31st this year will be very intresting.No matter what I,you ,we,ye,they say.

It wasn't me!

Have you written that letter yet? If not, why not? No faith or trust in the system? Try change it. Represent yourself. Not bothered changing it? Nobody's forcing you to live here.

Sethur

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I have written more letters to the DOJ before the internet was ever invented when we were using stamps pen and paper and ink!!About shooting in Ireland,it got us sweet FK ALL!! Iwill write to SSAI and then what......????Will you,will each and every man jack of us on this board???
Will it be taken aboard by FCP or DOJ. Dont pin your hopes to much on our FCP remember they are ADVISORY.That does not mean DOJ has to TAKE it.....


Grizzly if I may ask what was all this letter writing to the DOJ about. Were you out here defending all your fellow shooters and looking after their rights.

Was that you I saw waving your Flag in 2001 outside government Buildings was that for us.

You remind me of the type person that stands in front of the mirror every morning and enjoys have a row with yourself

Grizzly 45

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Have you written that letter yet? If not, why not? No faith or trust in the system? Try change it. Represent yourself. Not bothered changing it? Nobody's forcing you to live here.

Have you???? Show me yours and I'll show you mine.Sorry am out country at the moment again.Promise to write it up for you as soon as I get home next week.


Seethur.
Back in the old days of the 1980s I was writing to the DOJ ,minister of justices and all the rest of them regarding the iniquitey of the unfairness of the firearms laws here at the time.Think the first letter I wrote I was 12 or somthing like that about trying to get an air rifle liscense.I'm sure I can find one of my old leaky school fountain pen letters to prove it for you??
Mind now that 30 years has passed since and two moves houses and countries.Mind you I was a great bveliver in the system then,so they are somwhat very niave
In the late 1980s I wrote two articles for the old Irish shooting news on practical shotgunning,which in those days was known as combat shotgun and would turn you into gibbering wrecks if I was to describe some of the combat style courses that were allowed then in the UK.
I sent to the DOJ one to Micheal Noonan FG who was Min of Justice and my geography teacher in school before he left for politics.Purpose was to see if even then practical shooting could have got off the ground.No reply from either apart from an acknowledgement. Ditto for seeing about getting paintball started here in the early 90s.Same old Blah,blah,could be used to train the IRAand criminals....Sound fammilar????
Ditto about retriving handguns to legal ownership after the good Friday agreement.

God alone knows how many letters to newspapers on defending shooting ,and hunting from the antis.Two radio interviews on shooting and belif in RTKBA.[Dont worry it was long before shooting on boards.ie.late 1990s]So you needn't worry that any damage has been done:rolleyes:

So do tell Sethur...You have been doing what exactly??????????

It wasn't me!

Why should I? I'm not the one with the massive chip off my shoulder here. I have no interest in the RTKBA, it doesn't exist here and I'm happier for that. Firearms ownership is a privilege, not a right, and our privileges in the area can only be furthered by cogent discussion with the DoJ.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And HOW PRECISELY do you propose that John J Scmuck gets his singular opinion across to this agust body?

Write to them. Talk to your local TD. Write to the SSAI or whatever body represents you. Ask parlimentary questions through your TD.

What grauentee do you have that yours will be read or considerd?

None. Of course, I'm still getting response letters from emails sent to TDs last year about the fees, and the DoJ and DoF dropped their fees plans completely following the campaign here, so I'm going to go with thinking that the civil servants in there do actually follow their own office rules. Of course, if you want, you could ring them up and ask if the letter was received and when you can expect a reply, or use the FOI act to get the record of incoming mail for the department to check it was logged.

We made an exellent attempt last year with the grassroots liscense fee increase protest.Noted by all, and in the middle of an election year....but was much done about it?

Yes. The licence fee has now been dropped below where it was before the hike for most shooters. (Granted, your costs went up on subsequent shotguns, but you were getting away with a lot there beforehand while all the rest of us got stiffed). So this year instead of somewhere around the grand mark, many of us are paying less than two hundred for three years. And not only that, the FCP picked up enormous weight from that one act - because that was the Dail getting a short sharp reminder that there are items the shooting community will unanimously refuse to accept. It's a pity it's the money end, but I suppose it's to be expected.

Still no one man one liscense came from it.

So we didn't get something we weren't asking for? Heaven forfend!

Have you seen any answers posted here yet from this reasonable body the DOJ?

Nope, but that's unsurprising given that the guy due to get them and pass them on has been rather ill of late. But how would you know, he only posted it here earlier?

As for the fite de powah attitude.I am not fighting anything.I am stating a few simple home truths.

Then listen to one in return. Don't lose your temper. None of us want it, we have plenty of our own. And if you think there's no point even trying, don't bother telling us - most of us have been round long enough to learn that, and some long enough to learn that it's wrong.

Who because of their positions and training think they know better than the mob they must control.

Ah, but we know better than that, right? :rolleyes:

There is NO MORE EXCUSE for a Govt dept[especially] to be so backward on these kinds of issues with modern day internet communications.

And they're not. And they're not being silent. But before official statements on behalf of the Minister can be made, you have to get him to agree to them, and if you've not noticed, politics is a bit busy with things like leadership succession right now, so expecting instant results is just displaying a lack of knowlege of what you're complaining about.

We are putting too much faith in an advisory body,repersenting more or less our intrests in shooting.But have no legislative teeth,or any method of putting across their point more forcefully thanadvise.

And they're in that place because of the actions of a very few, very identifiable troublemakers who spent the last few years yelling what you're now yelling and getting us all into deep ****e. So you can understand that you yelling it is not a wonderfully welcome noise at this point. There are far too many echoes of the bad old days of constant romantic failure in the "fight the man" approach to life.

rrpc

Something familiar here

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So to finish of this critique Lets say I'm from Missouri..I'll belive all this wonderous and beautifull happy clappy good times Irish gunowners will have withthe DOJ and Gardai and us all happilly holding hands.WHEN I SEE IT!!! Until then I reserve my right as an Irish citizen to critizise a govt body who is paid by OUR taxes and is NOT repersenting us or our concerns very well.. DOJ TAKE NOTE!!

Clare gunner wrote: »

OK,I am still from Missouri on this one.
But after me,Kramer,Vegeta and Bullets met Willie O Deas councillor /secetary on this issue,and laid it out about the dumb situation of the three year liscense and the extortionate fees involved,and that a UK type situation of 5 years with a OMOL would be more appropriate.Also discovering that Willie O Deas secetary is a gun owner as well,but more a farming type shooter[takes it out once a decade for a flake at a pheasent type shooter:) ] He agreed with us and said he would consult Willie on it on Sunday morning.

Clare gunner wrote: »

Ok seeing the ol crystal ball is out.Could I have next Weds six numbers???:rolleyes:
Lets just say ,I am from Missouri on what might happen over the next few years.Hey,they are the people in the know if they think high level Garda matters should be sorted out in the DC,their problem.We are just the tax payers who want the law dealt with,if this is the route so be it.Let them deal with it.

Welcome back CG ?

Sethur

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Seethur.
Back in the old days of the 1980s I was writing to the DOJ ,minister of justices and all the rest of them regarding the iniquitey of the unfairness of the firearms laws here at the time.Think the first letter I wrote I was 12 or somthing like that about trying to get an air rifle liscense.I'm sure I can find one of my old leaky school fountain pen letters to prove it for you??
Mind now that 30 years has passed since and two moves houses and countries.Mind you I was a great bveliver in the system then,so they are somwhat very niave
In the late 1980s I wrote two articles for the old Irish shooting news on practical shotgunning,which in those days was known as combat shotgun and would turn you into gibbering wrecks if I was to describe some of the combat style courses that were allowed then in the UK.
I sent to the DOJ one to Micheal Noonan FG who was Min of Justice and my geography teacher in school before he left for politics.Purpose was to see if even then practical shooting could have got off the ground.No reply from either apart from an acknowledgement. Ditto for seeing about getting paintball started here in the early 90s.Same old Blah,blah,could be used to train the IRAand criminals....Sound fammilar????
Ditto about retriving handguns to legal ownership after the good Friday agreement.

God alone knows how many letters to newspapers on defending shooting ,and hunting from the antis.Two radio interviews on shooting and belif in RTKBA.[Dont worry it was long before shooting on boards.ie.late 1990s]So you needn't worry that any damage has been done:rolleyes:



So do tell Sethur...You have been doing what exactly??????????

Well Grizzly at 12 I was thinking about girls, went through a few , found one and married her, got a house and had children, got to twenty eight and a friend introduce me to hunting rabbits. I have been enjoying my sport since then and then I got a computer, found boards and then came across you.

Grizzly not all of us will have been involved in the politics but I am glad that we have the likes Des Crofton (NARGC) and Frank Brophy who didn't just keep bang tables and shouting what our rights were. Instead they took the action and went to court and go us back what we have.

Grizzly for one that has done so much from so young an age I am very surprised that you are not on one of the NGBS. If you could control you temper and move on from the past you probably would make a good negotiator.

As for the old days who was representing us then and what good did they do for the sport.


Quote=It wansnt me :Firearms ownership is a privilege, not a right, and our privileges in the area can only be furthered by cogent discussion with the DoJ.

Gunter Mauser

I do know mad boy.JPG

Grizzly 45

Jessus talk about the kiddies losing their teddies from their collective prams!!!

Sparks I'll answer your questions since the rest seem to have gone back to being ten year olds.:rolleyes:

Yes,have done so the TD route,have done the letters and emails.Very difficult to judge the sucess failure rate if you get no feedback.
Dont you think it is abit imopractical paying 150 euros for a FOI request to see if your letter was recived??? I seem to remember alot of people asking for the OMOL here and in the shooting circles.
And you please clarify since you are making an accusation about me HOW exactly I was getting away with alot while stiffing others???

Not knowing that our guy who passed on our questions and was expecting a reply is ill[Get well soon] is hardly a reason to personally attack somone for not knowing this.....I dont read every post here y know.

for not trying ...I think thats VERY unfair to level an accusation at anyone involved in this sport as long as I have been.But then if you are better at it than I am YOU DO IT THEN!! Glad that there are younger people to do it.Cos I am bored with it and am going to go shooting more often than waste my time writing to all and sundry on emails,etc etc.You know it all better and are better,off you go.

And how exactly was this advisory body going to be any more effective in a legislative sense considering we are there by invitation,not by statute decree???Do explain?

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yes,have done so the TD route,have done the letters and emails.Very difficult to judge the sucess failure rate if you get no feedback.

Did you call and follow up? Did you write more than once? Did you ever get a confirmation note that the letter or email or fax or phone call was received? Remember, we've proven only last year that not only does it work, but that it can cause a complete reversal in department policy, so its potency is fairly proven.

Dont you think it is abit imopractical paying 150 euros for a FOI request to see if your letter was recived?

FOI requests are generally about 20 euro plus any costs if they're substantive. Photocopying the mail logbook pages for a given week should not run to more than five minutes of time and five to seven photocopy pages, if you're quoted more than 25 euro, I'd be reporting it to the FOI commissioner after calling up the department to ask what they're playing at. Who told you it'd be 150 euro to make an FOI request?

I seem to remember alot of people asking for the OMOL here and in the shooting circles.

Yes, but not as part of the licence fee hike protest.

And you please clarify since you are making an accusation about me HOW exactly I was getting away with alot while stiffing others???

Because the others were paying up to almost forty euro for a licence for an air pistol and subsequent shotguns were costing six euro, which is patently unfair. The new situation is that every cert cases 22 euro, which is a reduction for almost everyone and the only case where it's a hike was a grossly unfair situation to begin with. Now all certs are created equal in the eyes of the Revenue

But then if you are better at it than I am YOU DO IT THEN!

I'm not better, but I have being doing it. I've put three years into NTSA admin and a decade into running DURC and WTSC and competitions and newsletters and websites and this place. And it's been a while since I was a "younger person" at that. The difference between those who do this crap and those who don't is not down to competence, there's no entrance exam, it's that there's unpaid unthanked work to do and 2% of shooters seem to do 98% of it.

And how exactly was this advisory body going to be any more effective in a legislative sense considering we are there by invitation,not by statute decree???Do explain?

Because the panel was created by a ministerial directive. It's an official, ongoing consultation mechanism. We were crying out for that during the bad old days when the CJB was being debated and the Minister at the time gave the notion a metaphorical finger from the floor of Dail Eireann - today it's a reality. And no, it's got no veto over the Minister, but would you care to point out any sport, any NGO with such a thing? (You can't - no NGO can have a constitutional veto over the Dail or Government in Ireland. We're all advisory bodies in this state).

Gunter Mauser

As Brian would say Cheer up Grizzly! Its not as if the treaty is been negotiated all over again with DEV:rolleyes: sending Michael over on the boat to get shafed by the brits. If you really want to look out for him
contact Des and the boys, they know a thing or two about representing
the sport, see can you get on board before departure put in your oar and hope for the best as four weeks from now, who knows who will hold
the hot seat in justice.:eek:

Grizzly 45

[

quote=Sparks;55633135]Did you call and follow up? Did you write more than once? Did you ever get a confirmation note that the letter or email or fax or phone call was received? Remember, we've proven only last year that not only does it work, but that it can cause a complete reversal in department policy, so its potency is fairly proven.

Yup did all that,never got a confirmation that anything arrived there by phone,fax,email or carrier piegon.

FOI requests are generally about 20 euro plus any costs if they're substantive. Photocopying the mail logbook pages for a given week should not run to more than five minutes of time and five to seven photocopy pages, if you're quoted more than 25 euro, I'd be reporting it to the FOI commissioner after calling up the department to ask what they're playing at. Who told you it'd be 150 euro to make an FOI request

Not the DOJ,anotherGovt dept on a totally different matter.But since I was quoted there 150 E I am ASSuming that that seemed to be the standard fee for any info under this act from any Govt dept.

?

Yes, but not as part of the licence fee hike protest.Because the others were paying up to almost forty euro for a licence for an air pistol and subsequent shotguns were costing six euro, which is patently unfair. The new situation is that every cert cases 22 euro, which is a reduction for almost everyone and the only case where it's a hike was a grossly unfair situation to begin with. Now all certs are created equal in the eyes of the Revenue

Oh ok Apologies..I thought you meant ME personally..:o Doesnt really matter,as I have never been entitled to a subsuquent liscense for some reason.So I never had the benefit of that in the first place.Still works out at near enough the same tho PA what I am paying for 8 guns.

I'm not better, but I have being doing it. I've put three years into NTSA admin and a decade into running DURC and WTSC and competitions and newsletters and websites and this place. And it's been a while since I was a "younger person" at that. The difference between those who do this crap and those who don't is not down to competence, there's no entrance exam, it's that there's unpaid unthanked work to do and 2% of shooters seem to do 98% of it.

And no, it's got no veto over the Minister, but would you care to point out any sport, any NGO with such a thing? (You can't - no NGO can have a constitutional veto over the Dail or Government in Ireland. We're all advisory bodies in this state).

From reading your previous post you seem to be implying that because of some troublemakers this panel would have some more power than it currently has???What exactly are you trying to say???
Said troublemakers might be blamed for getting us into the current mess.But at least the rock was rolled downhill.When would have been a good time to start shifting it???I never could get a straight answer on that one,even back in the 80s,or the 90s,pre and post good Friday agreement.Ten years later you old friend FLAG started it off with a few others. So IYO when should we have started asking for our stuff back???

And BTW I am not Yelling at anyone!!!Here or at the DOJ.I am just pointing out that maybe we are putting too much trust in a Govt body,that does not have our best intrests at heart,hold us in contempt,[mere civillians]and have proven themselves along with the Gardai to be VERY poor losers and to be aware of them puling a fast one on us,for their own self perservation and PR of making their minister look good on "doing somthing" against the "gun culture of Ireland".
Simple thing;Dont trust them!!leopards dont change their spots.
If that is a seemingly treasonous outlook to have here and express it,then God help us all.

It wasn't me!

Whatever about treasonous, it's distinctly unhelpful, and somewhat unfounded. It's comparable to useless scummy teenagers with their "All cops are bastards" bullshít. Our revolving door political system means policy is morphing all the time. The latest minister for Justice has held the brief rather a short time overall, but you're writing him off already, which is just silly, along with his whole department, who have no agenda against shooters. Really, it's unhelpful. You're watching people do a huge amount of work on your behalf, achieving rather impressive goals, and sitting in your castle sniping the "ACAB" "You're wasting your time" type comments.

Vegeta

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Whatever about treasonous, it's distinctly unhelpful, and somewhat unfounded. It's comparable to useless scummy teenagers with their "All cops are bastards" bullshít. Our revolving door political system means policy is morphing all the time. The latest minister for Justice has held the brief rather a short time overall, but you're writing him off already, which is just silly, along with his whole department, who have no agenda against shooters. Really, it's unhelpful. You're watching people do a huge amount of work on your behalf, achieving rather impressive goals, and sitting in your castle sniping the "ACAB" "You're wasting your time" type comments.

In fairness IWM shooting has been oppressed in this country for decades so its not like G45 is pulling this out of the air.

I can hardly blame him for being skeptical.

It will be interesting to see how the reloading issue goes and things like reasonable grounds for being granted permission to use a moderator on a fullbore rifle. The day to day things which effect shooters, rather than the bigger picture like what's restricted what isn't, security guidelines etc

It wasn't me!

Vegeta wrote: »

In fairness IWM shooting has been oppressed in this country for decades so its not like G45 is pulling this out of the air.

I can hardly blame him for being skeptical.

It will be interesting to see how the reloading issue goes and things like reasonable grounds for being granted permission to use a moderator on a fullbore rifle. The day to day things which effect shooters, rather than the bigger picture like what's restricted what isn't, security guidelines etc

But to be entirely fair, the DoJ are the ones who invited the FCP to the table as an advisory group. If that doesn't give them a serious chunk of credibility I don't know what does. The humility it shows is phenomenal and admirable. Regardless of the past, they're now inviting a balanced group of people with more experience than the civil servants and politicians (Gardai, firearms dealers, representatives of shooting sports bodies, game and conservation organisations) to advise them on what's the best way forward for all concerned now. That's incredible, don't you agree?

Vegeta

It wasn't me! wrote: »

to advise them on what's the best way forward for all concerned now. That's incredible, don't you agree?

It is incredible, it is progress and I am delighted there is a sensible approach being take (thank feck) but lets not pat ourselves on the backs just yet. The DoJ could have invited these organisations just to be seen to be fair and still shaft us on various issues

Only time will tell.

At the moment all we can do is write to and ring our clubs on the FCP and make sure they are on the ball and don't miss anything.

We can sit back and debate our trust in the DoJ all day but it is time we could be writing to our clubs or out shooting.

dimebag249

Judging by the impending ban on plinking, the restriction of many kinds of .22 rifles, the attitude towards reloading, I think it's fair to assume that the DoJ are either:

1. Suffering from some form of collective retardation,

2. A shower of pr!cks who hate guns for some reason.

Going on the evidence at our disposal, it'd be pretty difficult to come to any other conclusion, for example that they are committed civil servants working hard to provide for the best interests of the public (us).

rrpc

dimebag249 wrote: »

Judging by the impending ban on plinking, the restriction of many kinds of .22 rifles, the attitude towards reloading

OK, you're going to have to enlighten me here dimebag. What ban on plinking and what restrictions on .22 rifles?

Vegeta

rrpc wrote: »

OK, you're going to have to enlighten me here dimebag. What ban on plinking and what restrictions on .22 rifles?

Off the top of my head

Noting over a ten round mag?
Not allowed to shoot targets unless its an authorised range?