Britain should invade Zimbabwe

djpbarry

mike65 wrote: »

Which religious groups are oppressed/imprisioned in Europe?
Which crimes are punished by death in Europe?
Which journalists are in jail for thier writings in Europe?
Which ethnic minorities are oppressed as policy by governments in Europe?

I was referring to China.

mike65

Ah, you're from China. That exposes my eurocentrict mentality.

Mike.

Kev_ps3

mike65 wrote: »

Which religious groups are oppressed/imprisioned in Europe?
Which crimes are punished by death in Europe?
Which journalists are in jail for thier writings in Europe?
Which ethnic minorities are oppressed as policy by governments in Europe?

Mike.

The west likes to do its terror on foreign soil. Iraq, guantanmo bay, secret torture centres, 'rendition', bombings, sanctions that kill thousands the list is endless.. We like to keep our people happy but treat other like animals and think we are great.

El Stuntman

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

The west likes to do its terror on foreign soil. Iraq, guantanmo bay, secret torture centres, 'rendition', bombings, sanctions that kill thousands the list is endless.. We like to keep our people happy but treat other like animals and think we are great.

what is this 'the west' that you speak of?

they sound like a sinister bunch and best avoided

Kev_ps3

El Stuntman wrote: »

what is this 'the west' that you speak of?

they sound like a sinister bunch and best avoided

You know well who they are, and yes, they are sinister and best avoided!

El Stuntman

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

You know well who they are, and yes, they are sinister and best avoided!

I actually don't - is it some sort of homogenous grouping comprising North America, Western Europe and Israel? Are they plotting secretly together to keep the rest of the world in servility and poverty?

or could it be the case that maybe, just maybe, events in, let's say - Zimbabwe, - are mainly due to internal factors?

Kev_ps3

El Stuntman wrote: »

I actually don't - is it some sort of homogenous grouping comprising North America, Western Europe and Israel? Are they plotting secretly together to keep the rest of the world in servility and poverty?

Spot on.

djpbarry

El Stuntman wrote: »

...or could it be the case that maybe, just maybe, events in, let's say - Zimbabwe, - are mainly due to internal factors?

Damn fascist.

<Shakes fist in an angry manner>

El Stuntman

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Spot on.

good job we're inside the circle then eh?

I'd keep quiet about it if I were you

wes

El Stuntman wrote: »

I actually don't - is it some sort of homogenous grouping comprising North America, Western Europe and Israel? Are they plotting secretly together to keep the rest of the world in servility and poverty?

Well now that you mention that :

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Joking aside. The situation in Zimbabwe is due to Mugabe. He has made a right mess of his country.

Kev_ps3

El Stuntman wrote: »

good job we're inside the circle then eh?

I'd keep quiet about it if I were you

Unfortunately your right. Hopefully that will change in the future!

El Stuntman

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Unfortunately your right. Hopefully that will change in the future!

hopefully it won't change - think I want to give up my privileges as a member of this 'Western' clique? No sirreee Bob, I'm a gonna keep on exploitin'!!

Kev_ps3

wes wrote: »

Joking aside. The situation in Zimbabwe is due to Mugabe. He has made a right mess of his country.

Its not Mugabes fault:

Mugabe claims that massive financial isolation through American, British and EU legislation such as the Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery act of 2001 is the actual cause of hyperinflation. Under ZDERA, the IMF and other financial institutions are prohibited from extending loans, credit or cancelling debt to the government of Zimbabwe. As Zimbabwe needs to import all its energy, and oil is paid for in US dollars, this made the country vulnerable to financial sanctions like ZDERA.
Mugabe points to foreign governments and alleged "sabotage" as the cause of the fall of the Zimbabwean economy, as well as the country's 80% formal unemployment rate
Critics of Mugabe's administration, including the majority of the international community, blame Mugabe's controversial programme which sought to seize land from white commercial farmers.

whites made up less than 1% of the population but held 70% of the country's commercially viable arable land

----

So they took back the land from the brits who invaded their country and made up of only 1% of the population and gave it to the native population, sounds more than reasonable to me. Then the west destroyed their economy because of this.
And now we blame them because their country is in a state?!

El Stuntman

The government of Zimbabwe faces a wide variety of difficult economic problems as it struggles with an unsustainable fiscal deficit, an overvalued official exchange rate, hyperinflation, and bare store shelves. Its 1998-2002 involvement in the war in the Democratic Republic of the Congo drained hundreds of millions of dollars from the economy. The government's land reform program, characterized by chaos and violence, has badly damaged the commercial farming sector, the traditional source of exports and foreign exchange and the provider of 400,000 jobs, turning Zimbabwe into a net importer of food products. The EU and the US provide food aid on humanitarian grounds. Badly needed support from the IMF has been suspended because of the government's arrears on past loans and the government's unwillingness to enact reforms that would stabilize the economy. The Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe routinely prints money to fund the budget deficit, causing the official annual inflation rate to rise from 32% in 1998, to 133% in 2004, 585% in 2005, passed 1000% in 2006, and 26000% in November 2007. Private sector estimates of inflation in 2007 are well above 100,000%. Meanwhile, the official exchange rate fell from approximately 1 (revalued) Zimbabwean dollar per US dollar in 2003 to 30,000 per US dollar in 2007.

wes

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

----

So they took back the land from the brits who invaded their country and made up of only 1% of the population and gave it to the native population, sounds more than reasonable to me. Then the west destroyed their economy because of this.
And now we blame them because their country is in a state?!

I am not fan of the actions that the "West" take some times, but Mugabe is suppressing rival in his country and this makes him look very bad imho.

I have no issue with him reclaiming the land or anything like that, but the way he has been treating the opposition and the farce of elections make him look bad.

I personally don't want to see an invasion, but Mugabe has to allow the people of his country to decide who runs it. Right now he is doing his utmost to hang on to power.

oscarBravo

Folks, can we attribute quotes from external sources, please? Ideally with links.

kthxbye.

Kev_ps3

wes wrote: »

I am not fan of the actions that the "West" take some times, but Mugabe is suppressing rival in his country and this makes him look very bad imho.

I have no issue with him reclaiming the land or anything like that, but the way he has been treating the opposition and the farce of elections make him look bad.

I personally don't want to see an invasion, but Mugabe has to allow the people of his country to decide who runs it. Right now he is doing his utmost to hang on to power.

I agree that if he lost the election then he should go. But lets look at both sides of the story and not make everything out to be so black and white.

mike65

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

But lets look at both sides of the story and not make everything out to be so black and white.

Ha! I like a good unintentional gag.

Mike.

El Stuntman

wes wrote: »

I have no issue with him reclaiming the land or anything like that

get a grip Wes

to put what the land reclamation did in context:

They took away the main engine of the economy from the only people that knew how to manage it properly and allowed thugs and criminals to steal it through violence and intimidation. Then these selfsame thugs and criminals mismanaged these farms so badly that they ran the economy into the ground, causing hyperinflation, mass unemployment, famine and death. Zimbabwe was a model African state, now it's a disaster zone - 100% Mugabe's fault. Mugabe is nothing more than a pschopathic mass-murderer and kleptomaniac.

Not a black/white issue despite how Mugabe might try to play it - it's an issue of stupidity and corruption. Incidentally Mugabe's thugs also massacred 20,000 fellow blacks in Matabeleland -some liberator! link here

wes

El Stuntman wrote: »

get a grip Wes

Come off it Stuntman, I hardly sang Mugabe praises or anything.

El Stuntman wrote: »

to put what the land reclamation did in context:

They took away the main engine of the economy from the only people that knew how to manage it properly and allowed thugs and criminals to steal it through violence and intimidation. Then these selfsame thugs and criminals mismanaged these farms so badly that they ran the economy into the ground, causing hyperinflation, mass unemployment, famine and death. Zimbabwe was a model African state, now it's a disaster zone - 100% Mugabe's fault. Mugabe is nothing more than a pschopathic mass-murderer and kleptomaniac.

Yes, he is a poor politician and a mass murderer. I never claimed otherwise.

I also stated that the mess was his fault earlier. You really are looking to be out raged, even against people who more or less agree with you.

wes wrote:

Joking aside. The situation in Zimbabwe is due to Mugabe. He has made a right mess of his country.

See, the part in bold? Thats me saying it Mugabe's fault. Bit silly of you to tell me to "get a grip", don't you think?

Personally, my main issue with him is what he is doing right now against opponents to his regime.

El Stuntman wrote: »

Not a black/white issue despite how Mugabe might try to play it - it's an issue of stupidity and corruption. Incidentally Mugabe's thugs also massacred 20,000 fellow blacks in Matabeleland -some liberator! link here

Never claimed it was a black/white issue.

However, you had a nice opportunity to fly off the handle.

El Stuntman

wes wrote: »

However, you had a nice opportunity to fly of the handle.

too much coffee

apologies (now there's something you won't see to often in this forum!)

wes

El Stuntman wrote: »

too much coffee

apologies (now there's something you won't see to often in this forum!)

Accepted. I have been guilty of it myself several times.

brianthebard

wes wrote: »

I am not fan of the actions that the "West" take some times, but Mugabe is suppressing rival in his country and this makes him look very bad imho.

If he was truly suppressing rivals in his country he would've banned all other political parties and censored the press. Your opinion is typical of what the media and a lot of heads of state have been peddling, but not all of it holds up to scrutiny.

turgon

And just when we think it couldnt be more messed up those smelly, filthy, dirty rotten, corrupt, freedom killing, no-good chinese stinking communists send over a boat with guns. We should strap a nuclear bomb onto the boat and send it right back to where it came from.

On topic now, mugabe is a bad person. Bold robert.

Victor

censored the press.

Check.

brianthebard wrote: »

If he was truly suppressing rivals in his country he would've banned all other political parties

Check. Eh, well actually whats he's done is hound, suppress, murder, steal ... to bad would make the ruse transparent.

turgon

So they took back the land from the brits who invaded their country and made up of only 1% of the population and gave it to the native population, sounds more than reasonable to me. Then the west destroyed their economy because of this.
And now we blame them because their country is in a state?!

Well done "Kev_ps3" ive see youve actually put no thought into your words.

Mugabe in one gracious step erased the economy. Stop being racist for a second and realize that these Brits, despite being "invaders", were expert farmers and the backbone of the economy. What your suggesting is to get rid of the economy simply because the people running it were british decendants. Stop being racist and be more realistic.

wes

turgon wrote: »

Well done WES ive see youve actually put no thought into your words.

Mugabe in one gracious step erased the economy. Stop being racist for a second and realize that these Brits, despite being "invaders", were expert farmers and the backbone of the economy. What your suggesting is to get rid of the economy simply because the people running it were british decendants. Stop being racist and be more realistic.

Wow, this is bloody funny. Well it would be funny, if it wasn't so bloody stupid. You see the quote you attribute to me, well I never posted that. So your accusation of me, putting no taught into it is correct, but because I never posted it and not the reason you think.

Oh and accusation of Racism, well I never posted that. Perhaps you should work on you reading and comprehension, as it needs a bit of work, before calling me or anyone a racist.

Whats even funnier is that I am not pro-Mugabe. I think the guy has brought ruin to his country.

Wow, it seem to be bash Wes day today for some reason.

**EDIT**

Turgon apologized so ignore the above.

Thanks for the apology as well Turgon.

Duzzie

brianthebard wrote: »

If he was truly suppressing rivals in his country he would've banned all other political parties and censored the press. Your opinion is typical of what the media and a lot of heads of state have been peddling, but not all of it holds up to scrutiny.

He did worse than just ban his political opponents. In the Mid 80s he all but whiped out the only viable opposition, Zapu PF, by unleashing the North Korean trained 5th Brigade on the people of Matabeleland, this was in response to Zapu uprisings such as Entumbane in 1983, The 5th Brigade were brutal and killed thousands of Zapu supporters and officials. After whiping them out, he declared Zimbabwe a one party state and began on his ruination of the country. It was only as a result of international pressure in the 90s that the one party state status was removed.

As for censorship of the press, only reporters with government accreditation can report from Zimbabwe. Any reporter that says anything against Mugabe has their accreditation removed. I think that counts as censorship. That is why it is very hard to get unbiased news out of the country. Even South Africas independant press is banned as they have criticised Mugabe in the past, only the state controlled SABC can report from within Zimbabwe.

Both of these are fact and "hold up to scrutiny"

turgon

wes wrote: »

Oh and accusation of Racism, well I never posted that. Perhaps you should work on you reading and comprehension, as it needs a bit of work, before calling me or anyone a racist.

Whats even funnier is that I am not pro-Mugabe. I think the guy has brought ruin to his country.

Wow, it seem to be bash Wes day today for some reason.

Well my mistake, imreally sorry about that! Got the quote from a reply you posted above and in my hastiness credited to you which must have been extremely insulting. Ive edited it above.

Please accept my apologies. And sorry as well if your having a rough day here, its all my mistake about above.

Duzzie

Duzzie wrote: »

He did worse than just ban his political opponents. In the Mid 80s he all but whiped out the only viable opposition, Zapu PF, by unleashing the North Korean trained 5th Brigade on the people of Matabeleland, this was in response to Zapu uprisings such as Entumbane in 1983, The 5th Brigade were brutal and killed thousands of Zapu supporters and officials. After whiping them out, he declared Zimbabwe a one party state and began on his ruination of the country. It was only as a result of international pressure in the 90s that the one party state status was removed.

As for censorship of the press, only reporters with government accreditation can report from Zimbabwe. Any reporter that says anything against Mugabe has their accreditation removed. I think that counts as censorship. That is why it is very hard to get unbiased news out of the country. Even South Africas independant press is banned as they have criticised Mugabe in the past, only the state controlled SABC can report from within Zimbabwe.

Both of these are fact and "hold up to scrutiny"

http://www.sokwanele.com/pdfs/BTS.pdf

This is a link to a report on the troubles in Matabeleland in the early 80s