60kmph or 80kmph?

Trick of the Tail

Thats not at all what I'm implying, thats just what you erroneously inferred.

What I'm saying is that median-separated dual carriageways are inherently safer than contra flow roads.

So I'd be interested in knowing what exactly was the cause of the accident.

You don't just 'lose control'. There is always a cause, however remorseful. It might be a cat ran out in front of you, a tyre blew out, or you had a heart attack.

I'd just be interested to know the cause. Because we often hear about accidents happening on roads that would normally be regarded as very safe: wide, good visibility, no bends etc.

A.

Sully

alinton wrote: »

Thats not at all what I'm implying, thats just what you erroneously inferred.

What I'm saying is that median-separated dual carriageways are inherently safer than contra flow roads.

You questioned how you could have an accident on such a road cause of the median. That to me is clearly implying that its not possible or that the OP was liying.

You don't just 'lose control'. There is always a cause, however remorseful. It might be a cat ran out in front of you, a tyre blew out, or you had a heart attack.

Driving to fast to meet the conditions of the road, skidding and hitting the median (happened on the ORR before), lost control going around the bend, didnt slow down quick enough in advance of the roundabout, hitting another car by switching lanes / approaching to fast... the list goes on. It might be safer, but its still possible.

Trick of the Tail

What I said was:

---

I'm always interested as to how accidents happen on roads like dual carriageways with separated medians, which you'd think are really safe.
----

I don't think there's any implication there that its not possible or that he was lying. Purely curiosity. One of the often-repeated reasons for accidents is 'the state of the roads', so I'm curious as to what can cause accidents when there is nothing wrong with the road. Guesswork isn't enough, I'd like to know what caused it in this case.

Your last paragraph above lists examples of 'bad driving', poor judgement, lack of skill etc. Not 'speed'.

If someone does not posess good driving skills and/or judgement then they should drive more slowly than an expert driver. If they don't, and they drive too fast for their ability/the road conditions/the other traffic/etc/ then that is: Bad Driving.

A few years ago I witnessed a crash on the New Ross road at one of the many Glenmore turn-offs. A woman awith her kids in the car was stopped, intending to turn right but was not indicating. A large truck came up the hill behind her, rounded the bend and was unable to stop or swerve before hitting her, killing all aboard.

The truck driver was judged (from skid mark evidence) to have been breaking the speed limit by 5mph and was therefore held totally responsible, and prosecuted.

Terrible. But my conjecture, however insensitive it may sound, is that if the truck had been travelling 5mph slower the collision still would have occurred, but it would have more likely been judged the other driver's fault for driving dangerously (i.e. not indicating and being in the incorrect position on the road).

So in that case, 'speed' was not the cause, Bad Driving was.

[The road markings have since been changed there to provide turn lanes which has made that part of the road safer].

A.

Sully

alinton wrote: »

What I said was:

---

I'm always interested as to how accidents happen on roads like dual carriageways with separated medians, which you'd think are really safe.
----

I don't think there's any implication there that its not possible or that he was lying. Purely curiosity. One of the often-repeated reasons for accidents is 'the state of the roads', so I'm curious as to what can cause accidents when there is nothing wrong with the road. Guesswork isn't enough, I'd like to know what caused it in this case.

Sorry its just because the way your not agreeing with his points and then question how such an accident can occur. Thats what it looked to me, but I accept if you did not mean that!

Your last paragraph above lists examples of 'bad driving', poor judgement, lack of skill etc. Not 'speed'.

Its pretty hard to loose control going slow Bad Driving & Speed were a factor of such an accident. The faster you go, the harder you hit the median or ditch, the higher the chance the car might flip etc.

If someone does not posess good driving skills and/or judgement then they should drive more slowly than an expert driver. If they don't, and they drive too fast for their ability/the road conditions/the other traffic/etc/ then that is: Bad Driving.

Thats one of the problems in Ireland. We have drivers with hardly no ability driving to fast and not being able to handle the car at such a speed.

Obviously speed is not the only cause, but its a considerable cause of accidents.

A few years ago I witnessed a crash on the New Ross road at one of the many Glenmore turn-offs. A woman awith her kids in the car was stopped, intending to turn right but was not indicating. A large truck came up the hill behind her, rounded the bend and was unable to stop or swerve before hitting her, killing all aboard.

Must have been horrible to witness. I assume the lady driver turned as the truck turned?

The truck driver was judged (from skid mark evidence) to have been breaking the speed limit by 5mph and was therefore held totally responsible, and prosecuted.

Not sure about 5mph but iv seen Gardai argue that it can make a difference. Iv seen UK and Australian ads saying the same. Not sure if I would hold him responsible tho, tough call.

Trick of the Tail

I came upon it seconds after it had happened. Other witnesses confirmed what had happened. She was in the right (overtaking) lane, facing Waterford. The truck came up behind her in the same lane. Had she been indicating he might have realised what was happening, or if she'd actually carried out the turn instead of delaying, it wouldn't have happened.

In any case the driver was held responsible, was prosecuted and, worse, has to live with that for the rest of his life.

So: in summary, I think we're agreed! _Inappropriate_ speed can be cause of accidents and inappropriate speed is one example of bad driving!

In any case, the speed limit on the ORR should be 80!

Andy.

CantGetNoSleep

alinton wrote: »

I'm very pleased you weren't injured. But please tell me, out of interest, the exact cause of the crash.

I'm always interested as to how accidents happen on roads like dual carriageways with separated medians, which you'd think are really safe.

A.

Bad driving was the cause of the accident - i;m not disputing that

But accidents will happen because of bad driving, at higher speeds these accidents will be worse

Dual carriageways are generally safer than single lane roads but accidents still occur on them very frequently, just not head on collisions

Sully

alinton wrote: »

So: in summary, I think we're agreed! _Inappropriate_ speed can be cause of accidents and inappropriate speed is one example of bad driving!

Exactly.

Next we need to fix up our ****ed up driving system and fix it properly!

Trick of the Tail

yes!