Some bits and bobs

bullets

Was at an antiques fair today and spotted a gem for 60 Euros
A nice big WWII shell dated 1941 that was being sold as an umbrella stand.

I really want to start collecting trench art once I get some savings going
and other militaria if I can big up nice small bargains every now and then.

Said I would post from bits and bobs that I have picked up over the years.
Its not much but its a start.

Pride and Joy is a 155mm shell that has been in my family since I was a kid
its got a date of 1915 on it. Beside that is the gem I picked up today
dunno what its from but I could not resist. After that there is some smaller
stuff that I picked up from various fairs.

The belted stuff is a mixture of .303/7.62 empty cases and also a belt of
used blanks. I got the first part of one of the belts as a child from a friend
of my grandfathers who collected Militaria. At the time he also gave my
Cousins a belt of 50 cals shells and I managed to get a few from him.



The 40mm stuff I got from a lad in work who had it for years.
He initially gave me one! but when he saw my level of interest and
the fact I spent ages getting it cleaned up and polished he arrived
into work and gave me 3 more and the huge clip that fastens them together
as well as two ammo boxes for them.



The smaller stuff is 35mm anti-aircraft, 30mm AA and also a 30mm drill round
from an A10-Tankbuster Aircraft. Also is a 50cal for scale. I got these
insert ammo as decorative pieces from an online store. The Head are made
from machined steel so would not be real so are there for display purposes only.



The Green Plastic containers I dont know what they were used for.
I got these when I was an extra in Braveheart in 1994 there was a rubbish dump in Kildare where the army dumped a lot of cool stuff like helmets,
ammo pouches, webbing and empty magazines. One mans rubbish is another
mans treasure.


This is a button shiner I think. I had two that were my Grandfathers who was a Col. in the Cavalry. The one in better condition I dont know where it is
I could only find the one that was worn and faded.


At work a few years back, my bosses boss came in and handed me a cardboard box with an old Irish issue gas mask that had been lying in his
house for years. I think the filter may contain asbestos am not sure.



Also found on a rubbish dumb was a leather magazine pouch with a Carl Gustaf 9mm magazine.


Got this gasmask I think its a Russian Childs gas mask in an army surplus
store in Galway about 10 years ago. Filter looks new and un-used.


A weird find...when in the FCA about 1994 we were camping overnight next
to a deserted house doing a radio exercise with the local civilian amature radio club. There was an old shed and I found this tin of anti-gas cream
with its contents intact.




~B

SpitfireIV

Nice collect Bulletins, nice 'dump' finds too, especially the Gustav mag pouch! . In your first pic, the shell at the end, its obviously not brass, do you know what it was used for? I have a non brass shell too with a load of printed text on the side of it, could never figure out what it was used for, its taller than the one in your pic.

I remember my first buy, it was a post war German canteen that I got at a market, for a £1 or 2, also there was a British pattern '37 binocular case with a '37 pattern waterbottle and harness, that was one 'lot' and cost about £3, then that night my dad brings home a Pattern 1916 Stahlhelm from the local pub and a couple of days later my great uncle gives me a gasmask, that was some week!..........it had begun! :eek::D

arnhem44

Hi Bullets,that is a fine collection,i wish i had a dump like that near me:(or relatives,i know theres some old brass lying around at my parents,someone gave it to them some time ago,must have a look if its still there,i remember an old tommy helmet thrown around the yard there years ago,long gone now,at the time no one had any interest in that stuff:eek:

Dr Strange

Nice brass there, bullets! I remember as a kid in my grandmothers house there were shells around but used as flower vases.

Nice rescue work on the ammo pouch and anti-gas cream. Amazing finds.

bullets

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Nice collect Bulletins, nice 'dump' finds too, especially the Gustav mag pouch! . In your first pic, the shell at the end, its obviously not brass, do you know what it was used for?

Dunno what it was but I ahem blatantly robbed it!! from a bin in a certain army
barracks where it was being thrown out. I think its more of a housing for something. Maybe a small mortar? not sure though, It's defo designed to go around something thats live and to stop it from moving about dureing transport/storrage.

~B

SpitfireIV

bullets wrote: »

Dunno what it was but I ahem blatantly robbed it!! from a bin in a certain army
barracks where it was being thrown out. I think its more of a housing for something. Maybe a small mortar? not sure though, It's defo designed to go around something thats live and to stop it from moving about dureing transport/storrage.

~B

Ah, seems my one is different so as I think the only thing it held was a propellant . I included a few pics, its 350mm tall and has a detonator tube inside and has been struck at the base, so it was fired by something. I always took it as a given that artillery shells were brass? Dont know what this is made of, its been living in the shed for a number of years now and has shown little or no signs of actual rust.






The pic of the base is bad, but it reads:

CN - 90 - 62 F1

PY 6 SMG 71

and also has a little '32' in a circle.

bullets

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Ah, seems my one is different so as I think the only thing it held was a propellant . I included a few pics, i

I've something nearly identical to your pics thats dented and stashed in my
attic. Its got a rod or protrusion on the inside of the base.

Will take a look tomorrow and take a pic! too late tonight and I am drunk
so not a good Idea to try climb up to the attic. (I dont have stairs or ladder)
~B

SpitfireIV

bullets wrote: »

Its got a rod or protrusion on the inside of the base.

Yep! Mine has like a rod coming approx. half way up the inside with little holes in it, I assume its a detonator of some sort.

Dr Strange

Hi guys,

I just saw this over at the shooting forum and was wondering if it would have a bearing on collectibles:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55596838&postcount=10

Note where Sparks also mentions brass!

bullets

Preusse wrote: »

Hi guys,

I just saw this over at the shooting forum and was wondering if it would have a bearing on collectibles:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55596838&postcount=10

Note where Sparks also mentions brass!

It raises the debate of what shooters should do with their empty cases
after they have fired them. There was discussion that said that once fired
a shell was no longer considered a component part of a firearm/ammunition.
There was also a court case at one stage that was thrown out of court.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055261545

I'd love to see that bit expanded or clarified or changed.
When I asked the Gardai they say its OK as long as its not a firearms itself.

As Collectors I cant see anything that allows you to have a collectors licence
to cover our backsides 100% If there was such thing I would sign up for it
straight away.

most places sell brass or inert ammo as Collectors Ammo or Insert Ammo and brass as "decorative" or "ornamental"
The Shell I bought yesterday was been sold as an Umbrella/Stick stand
and not as a component form of a firearm. And most places that
I have seen it normally would call it Trench Art even if its just a plain shell.
(I also dont have a WWII Battleship lying about to reload the shell and fire it
so the country is safe from me )

Every single shooter in the country that has a licence for a firearm and keeps
their empty cases if they go over their ammo limit on the licence with their empty casings
therefore would be in breech of the act. I've nearly every spent case I have ever used
on my rimfire rifle. rimfire cases cannot be re-loaded so that kinda also goes outside the act.

If the spent cases are being sent to a Recycle plant then the recycle plant
would be in breech of the act for possessing them.

You dump em in the bin then the Binman company is in possession of them.

Any Heavy metal fan or biker with a bullet belt around their waist would be in breech
of the act.

All the antique fairs that sell brass shells and all the army surplus stores
that have either window displays with brass or sell the bullet keyrings
would also be in breech of the act.

~B

Dr Strange

Hi bullets,

yes, I understand what you are saying and I agree with the sentiment of empty shells. I just wanted to point out something that may cause trouble for us as collectors (as well as firearm licence holders) because of inaccurate, or better, inconsidered wording, of certain Acts.

And I agree, if there was such a thing as a collectors' licence I would apply for it right away and jump through any (within reason) hoops to get it. Once granted it should cover all aspects of militaria collecting.

danpatjoe

Hello Bullets,

I thought you might be the man to help me with this..

I was buying some things (non-militaria) in an antique shop today, and I had spent so much that I asked them to throw this shell in as a bonus (it was the only military related piece in the shop!).

I know nothing about this sort of stuff, so hopefully you might be able to point me in the right direction.
The lady in the shop said it came from France and that is the sum total of what I know!! It has a few numbers and letters stamped into the base which make no sense to me. I don't even know it's calibre.

Any ideas?

Thanks for your time and best regards,
- Dan

arnhem44

Finally got around to getting the shell casings from my parents,my father was only delighted to see the back of them,will post a few pics tomorrow

arnhem44

These are the shell cases,these have been lying around at home for around twenty years now and were given to my father from his brother,i didn't realise the dates until i had a look earlier so i was quite surprised,some of the shells have been widend at the top for some reason and the photos are not picking up all the markings on the bottom,around each shell at the top is marked 4"mark 4 and vll FA,i guess there all British with the crows foot marking,the 40mm rounds are marked 1956,i did start to polish them and then decided to leave well alone,i must go back home and have a look,there used to be some ammo boxs there also.

arnhem44

Here are another few bits picked up over the last few weeks

arnhem44

Heres something different,I bought this from a dealer in the U.k who deals mainly in grenades,its a sea mine horn(no funny comments Kowloon:p)and an entrenching tool,post war as there is no marking on the shovel,there is a printed mark on the inside of the leather but again post war

Dr Strange

arnhem44 wrote: »

Heres something different,I bought this from a dealer in the U.k who deals mainly in grenades,its a sea mine horn(no funny comments Kowloon:p)and an entrenching tool,post war as there is no marking on the shovel,there is a printed mark on the inside of the leather but again post war

Nice. I was tempted to press the delete button for "sea-mine-horn"

Grizzly 45

Bulletts,
Methinks your two plastic containers may be for HESH anti tank rounds?
High Explosive Squash Head.It has the shape for these.They look like ,well a blunt cylinder with a long rod protruding from the front.

the GALL

hey bullets
them green plastic cases look like the quiver for the 'gustav 84 anti tank'
maybe the 'tptp round'

arnhem44

I went to a vintage rally today and came across a guy from the noth selling a whole range of militaria,helmets,uniform,webbing,bayonets and other weapons,so i go up to this guy and of course starts talking to him and does a little haggiling on a few bits i had seen,he wanted mega bucks:eek:,i ended up buying a lovely patern 1888 mk1 type2 lee metford bayonet with plenty of dates and of course the tornister which has no markings and missing its straps which i think might be swiss maybe,he had other choice items in the back of the van:) but i declined

arnhem44

Here are a couple of bits that came Monday

arnhem44

Ok then here we have some British webbing,one belt with an unissued holster for my Webley revolver(if i ever get it),also a British entrenching tool with its cover,I've attached a mark 2 Enfield bayonet to the end to show it complete,I think thats what the connection on the handle is for anyway,I do have a few more bits of British webbing but no photos at present so will post them up in due course

SpitfireIV

Where are you picking up all these 'bits and bobs' Arnhem? The bayonet does indeed fit on the end of the entrenching tool handle, the logic or reason behind it I dont know. I guess they thought that if the rifle failed you could charge at the hun with your bayonet on a stick.

Interesting that they were still employing tactics from the 18th century :rolleyes:

arnhem44

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Where are you picking up all these 'bits and bobs' Arnhem? The bayonet does indeed fit on the end of the entrenching tool handle, the logic or reason behind it I dont know. I guess they thought that if the rifle failed you could charge at the hun with your bayonet on a stick.

Interesting that they were still employing tactics from the 18th century :rolleyes:

I pick most of it off the net,just pick and choose your items carefully and things can be picked up quite reasonable,some of the stuff may not be in the best of condition but these can be off loaded again at a later stage,I wouldn't of fancied seeing some guy come at ya and all you had was an entrenching tool:eek:,when needs be I guess:rolleyes:

enfield

The idea of the bayonet lug on the opposite end of the entrenching tool helve was for finding mines.
Regards.
Tom.

arnhem44

enfield wrote: »

The idea of the bayonet lug on the opposite end of the entrenching tool helve was for finding mines.
Regards.
Tom.

that does make a little more sence to it looking at it that way,has anyone got a photo of a complete pattern 37 webbing?,I'm hopeing to put a full British uniform together for display

arnhem44

here is the rest of the webbing,an american belt with ammo pouches,bren gun pouches(post war),shoulder straps and a British water bottle

arnhem44

Came across these lately,got these with a medal one time,its a selection of buttons and an acme medal

SpitfireIV

You must have some collection massed by now Arnhem! I'm the same as yerself, I have odds and ends of the '37 webbing, but not enough to make the whole set. I have a '37 pattern small pack, dated 1953, perhaps it once went with those pouches you have

You'll have to get yourself a leather holster for the Colt .45 for that US belt, you have the .45 mag pouches there, then get yourself an airsoft M1911 and stick it in there for the look :pac:

EDIT: This any use to you?
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-equip/37-web01.htm

arnhem44

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

You must have some collection massed by now Arnhem! I'm the same as yerself, I have odds and ends of the '37 webbing, but not enough to make the whole set. I have a '37 pattern small pack, dated 1953, perhaps it once went with those pouches you have

You'll have to get yourself a leather holster for the Colt .45 for that US belt, you have the .45 mag pouches there, then get yourself an airsoft M1911 and stick it in there for the look :pac:

EDIT: This any use to you?
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-equip/37-web01.htm

Thanks for the link CB1798,some real interesting stuff there,I've added it to my favourites to check out proparly later,the collection of bits are growing steadly,always swaping and changing from one type of militaria to another which doesn't really help,the wife kills me(lol)over it,theres always something coming in the post,she keeps telling me the attic will come down one of these days:eek:,luckily enough we should be moving in the next eight weeks or so to a slightly bigger house,hopefully I should be able to display things a bit better then

arnhem44

Here we have another Tornister,this one is the WW2 German version unlike the last one I posted which I would think was Swiss