Irish Poker, where do we stand?

5starpool

The Al Lad wrote: »

They just couldn't have banter without getting personal, dam teenagers :pac::pac::pac:

If only they were capable of such mature posts as this one :rolleyes:

The Al Lad

5starpool wrote: »

If only they were capable of such mature posts as this one :rolleyes:

U didn't think I was levelling

Theresalwaysone

Mr.Plough wrote: »

Jeff I think theresa was just pointing out that you can have players who grind through the levels at 20nl/50nl/100nl who have just as good an understanding of the game, if not better than some of the people who have the cash to jump straight in at 400nl. I'm pretty sure someone has mentioned this already actually. But obviously like you said the reg's at 400nl are better players than the regs at 20nl

This is what I meant. My example was a bit weak. My bad.

Still the point holds, the level you play is not a very good indicator of your ability.

Theresalwaysone

Also yes, my use of the word retarded is a bit unfair. Habit. Sorry.

5starpool

The Al Lad wrote: »

U didn't think I was levelling

If I didn't think you were levelling you would have got some sort of infraction thingy too. However, it had the potential to have oil on fire type impact in this thread, so I had to get my also extra mature comment in too before someone else did.

Goodluck2me

mistabutta wrote: »

the general consensus from people that dont post on boards and who dont play in dublin is that boards and 2+2 is full of 'up their own hole' type people who hide behind the SN and talk sh1t about other players and are generally losing players..i dont completely agree with this because there are some good posters who are obviously v.good at poker.. but i sometimes think that people on here think that poker is confined to boards or dublin and anyone else who plays it form down the country are terrible..the biggest limit you can find in dublin is 2/5.. i've dealt at regular 10/20 NL games and 5/10 PLO games last year "down the country" and the general play is excellent cause these guys are living off poker.. they dont feel the need to write a blog about how they are feeling at the moment or come on a public forum to proclaim themselves to be something they are not.. people dont realise the scale of poker across ireland and the games that are played.. the north west of the country for example i've dealt all types of lowball games and high/lo variations which had nosebleed limits.. people just dont seem to know this

i also know of some regular winners at 5/10 online who completely keep to themselves and are never on boards or 2+2

a bit off topic but why do most of all of irelands top players come from the north when its only a quarter of the population?? andy black, marty smith. michael trimby, allinstevie

I dont think this arguement stands up though to be honest, I know plenty of lads from tha area who played stakes of 10K+ sit down, who are absolutely funamentally flawed players with little concept of the games they play, they just happen to have a slightly better grasp than the others. They cannot beat the smaller stakes games, and are most often from my experience the value.

I also dont think that Michael trimby is in the same bracket as Marty or Andy, Michael muldoon is a much better player than him, as is Paul leckey. The fact that some of them happened to play up there/come from the North is irrelevant imo. There are plently of players who didnt, Scott G, Padraig, Donnacha, Liam F etc who didnt.

robinblinds

Its interesting to that the op was a question regarding why Irish poker and Irish poker sites do not sponsor more players and now it seems to be turning into a bit of an introspective look at boards and its players...

For what its worth, there is WAY too much misguided sponsorship of players.
Example - Marc Goodwin...Thats a monstrous deal he has with Mansion. What do they get out of this? Very close to zilch.

On the upside, there is now a very good opportunity to shape some really good deals for the Irish poker community, if the same community ignores the ridiculous way other countries/sites throw sponsorship cash around like its confetti.

YULETIRED

I have applied and hope to be accepted for sponsorship by Board Iascaigh Mhara . I remain hopeful.

robinblinds

hehe

Iago

mistabutta wrote: »

a bit off topic but why do most of all of irelands top players come from the north when its only a quarter of the population?? andy black, marty smith. michael trimby, allinstevie

becuase nordies are born with an overly developed aggressive streak and an abundance of confidence in general

5starpool

Also, another point about the whole 'boards' thing.

Most of the older (which includes a high proportion of successful) poker players either don't know of boards, don't care, or somethimes read but don't post. A large majority of the posters here are under 35 (90%+ I would guess), but are all aware of the large amount of high profile and successful irish players (not just the older ones, some of the younger ones too) that don't post here. However, whenever discussions happen, people usually turn to their own experiences which would include levels and games frequented by a lot of the players on here.

mistabutta

goodluck2me wrote: »

I also dont think that Michael trimby is in the same bracket as Marty or Andy, Michael muldoon is a much better player than him, as is Paul leckey.

they were just off the top my head.. i had forgotten about paul leckey and muldoon

a lot of the 2+2 pros that came and played in the irish open were under the impression that irish players are donks.. i wasnt impressed by it but these guys are successful players and know poker inside out

The Al Lad

5starpool wrote: »

Also, another point about the whole 'boards' thing.

Most of the older (which includes a high proportion of successful) poker players either don't know of boards, don't care, or somethimes read but don't post. A large majority of the posters here are under 35 (90%+ I would guess), but are all aware of the large amount of high profile and successful irish players (not just the older ones, some of the younger ones too) that don't post here. However, whenever discussions happen, people usually turn to their own experiences which would include levels and games frequented by a lot of the players on here.

Are you in that other 10% Dom:p:p:p

5starpool

The Al Lad wrote: »

Are you in that other 10% Dom:p:p:p

Not for another 3.417 years, so i'm still a whippersnapper.

phantom_lord

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Still the point holds, the level you play is not a very good indicator of your ability.

I think it is.

Goodluck2me

mistabutta wrote: »

they were just off the top my head.. i had forgotten about paul leckey and muldoon

a lot of the 2+2 pros that came and played in the irish open were under the impression that irish players are donks.. i wasnt impressed by it but these guys are successful players and know poker inside out

To be fair they were right, when you have a field of 500+ there will without doubt be donks. the majority of players were Irish so go figure.
The same will be said at the WSOP about american players, and the same was said of Italians last week in San Remo.
I wouldn`t be annoyed about it, in fact I`d be delighted by it, as it means there`s lots of value in our games.
I`d rather the avergae poker player in Ireland be terrible, and for me to make lots of monies, than to watch Andy or whoever win the WSOP and be broke like Reggie.

Lazare

My opinion on this fwiw, I couldn't really care less how well Irish players do on the international stage, I only care about my own game.


In general, patriotism is a good thing, but it just seems a little pointless in poker imo.

Who gives a fcuk at the end of the day?

HoLLLLLaments

probly the only country in the world where poker players complain because irish poker players are teh suck.

dagunman

I asked Mark Goodwin that question. What are the benefits for Mansion from hiring him. He gets $400k odd from mansion basic plus tournies and expenses so roughly $600k a year according to him. He said that in January 2008 $250k of mansions business was attributed to him, through his promo codes etc.
How many ppl have heard any poker player say oh I am potting on Boyle sports or ppp at da mo. Mayb a few beginers when they know no better. I think this says volumes about the 2 sites and how they are viewed by the Irish poker players. I think it was been a lose lose for both sides.
Re my comments regarding boards. Obv it hasnt made any one a worse player, but I dont think it has really had anything positive to add regard improving players. Its very good for tourney organisers but for players its meh. Advice given is usually very poor and dished out by losing players. Its a pity baords cant really have sponsors and affilate deals. Then it could hire winning players who could offer quality advice. Also I think boards allows us to believe in our greatness. Boards hails ppl who can beat the 1/2 plh game in the jack pot as the dogs bollox and basically they have achieved all that need to be achieved. All the back slapping that goes on in boards really sickens me to be honest. The majority of players are losing players but if you read the compliments given out here you would think that most players are crushing the game. You can say were a small Island with a small playing base, B0llix. I did my thesis on internet poker in Ireland. There are over 100k players in Ireland.
One of the best posts if not the best post I ever read on this site was by Hehawcantona's, to my disbeleif you had ppl rubbishing his post it really staggerd me. Any thread results in absolute slush by the end. It really is a pity baords cant be run more commerically. There would be more all round winners.

kpnuts

dagunman wrote: »

You can say were a small Island with a small playing base, B0llix. I did my thesis on internet poker in Ireland. There are over 100k players in Ireland.

Did your thesis uncover any interesting findings aside from that we're all trout?

Ste05

dagunman wrote: »

One of the best posts if not the best post I ever read on this site was by Hehawcantona's, to my disbeleif you had ppl rubbishing his post it really staggerd me.

Link??

smoothcall

pretty sure this...

from http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55185759#post55185759

HeeHawsCantona wrote: »

I cant agree with this its just too naive.I'm going to give you a simple lesson in life as a professional punter and you can take it whatever way you want to It has taken me many years to learn the truth of it and I am much the better and more financially well off because of it.

When I was a student we used to play a simple game called HI LO. I'm sure many of you know it. When the odds were in my favour I bet everything I could (as much as was in the pot) , when they weren't or were nuetral I had no bet - Result was if I got unlucky in the big pots I went bust.

I have always been a big Sports bettor, mainly on Racing and Greyhounds but at times on everything. Analysing these bets is my lifes work and I do it better than most people and better than most of ye would believe. The more the odds are in my favour the more I will bet (but up to a self controlled point and not beyond it) and I have won fortunes doing it. This is fact not fantasy and I dont really care whether you believe it or not. I have seen alot of really good racereaders and sports bettors go bust because they have not controlled their betting and have gone bust. They were to a man betting when the odds were in their favour (+ EV).

Now how do we convert this to poker? I guess that we all choose the level we want to play in and if Daithio is playing 5 5 NL it is not an unfair assumption to make that once he believes that the odds are in his favour (+ EV) in any situation at this level then he should call - however this pot was probably the biggest of the night, the table by his admission is full of fish, the decision is very very close - on the night he can go bust if he is wrong or he can play more prudently and pick better spots.

That is what Adam I believe is saying and I for one agree with him.

Anyone who says its "SIMPLE" will in time learn a hard lesson.

think this deserves another look to , lol

HoLLLLLaments wrote: »

phantom_lord

dagunman wrote: »

, to my disbeleif you had ppl rubbishing his post it really staggerd me.

that's what usually happens when someone posts something that's wrong!

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ianmc38

Hey Dagunman,

I completely disagree with your post. I'm not sure how long you've been reading the boards poker forum but there is alot of quality advice given on boards. Of course there is often a high signal to noise ratio but that's to be expected amongst a community with an eagerness to learn, improve and to be generally involved in hh discussions. Howver, there are still at least 7 regular posters here who always post excellent and imo close to perfect advice in hh threads.

I would attribute at least 50% of my poker learning off the tables to boards and would go as far as to say that I would probably never have become a winning player without reading and taking part in the forums.

As for HeeHaws post, it's fine but it's hardly the follow up to The Theory of Poker.

Anyway, good luck, hope San Remo is going well.

Hitman Actual

dagunman wrote: »

Advice given is usually very poor and dished
out by losing players.

dagunman wrote:

The majority of players are losing players

Why do you think that? Where are you getting your information that "The majority of players are losing players"? Please point me to some threads where you think a losing player has given bad advice.

Also, IIRC, a couple of months ago, you were the person giving bad advice regarding pocket pair/flopped set implied odds.

dagunman wrote: »

Boards hails ppl who can beat the 1/2 plh game in the jack pot as the dogs bollox and basically they have achieved all that need to be achieved. All the back slapping that goes on in boards really sickens me to be honest.

I agree with you here to a certain extent. There is a level of disillusionment amongst some players. But in any community-oriented discussion board, especially where so many players know each other, "back-slapping" (deserved or not) will be very evident, and is actually quite important to the 'health' of the forum. Granted, it is OTT at times, but important none the less. Would it be better if it was a forum like "neverwinpoker", or whatever that low-life site is called?

dagunman wrote: »

One of the best posts if not the best post I ever read on this site was by Hehawcantona's, to my disbeleif you had ppl rubbishing his post it really staggerd me.

The problem with HeeHaws post, as I saw it, was that it was purely anecdotal. That never goes down well in a forum where a lot of people look for logic in a post. I'm not saying I disagreed with what he was saying (it actually seemed to be coming from a ROR point of view), but he didn't seem to have any 'hard' evidence to back it up.

dagunman wrote: »

I did my thesis on internet poker in Ireland. There are over 100k players in Ireland.

I'm intrigued. Are your findings published online anywhere? (genuine question)

NickyOD

dagunman wrote: »

I asked Mark Goodwin that question. What are the benefits for Mansion from hiring him. He gets $400k odd from mansion basic plus tournies and expenses so roughly $600k a year according to him. He said that in January 2008 $250k of mansions business was attributed to him, through his promo codes etc.
How many ppl have heard any poker player say oh I am potting on Boyle sports or ppp at da mo. Mayb a few beginers when they know no better. I think this says volumes about the 2 sites and how they are viewed by the Irish poker players. I think it was been a lose lose for both sides.
Re my comments regarding boards. Obv it hasnt made any one a worse player, but I dont think it has really had anything positive to add regard improving players. Its very good for tourney organisers but for players its meh. Advice given is usually very poor and dished out by losing players. Its a pity baords cant really have sponsors and affilate deals. Then it could hire winning players who could offer quality advice. Also I think boards allows us to believe in our greatness. Boards hails ppl who can beat the 1/2 plh game in the jack pot as the dogs bollox and basically they have achieved all that need to be achieved. All the back slapping that goes on in boards really sickens me to be honest. The majority of players are losing players but if you read the compliments given out here you would think that most players are crushing the game. You can say were a small Island with a small playing base, B0llix. I did my thesis on internet poker in Ireland. There are over 100k players in Ireland.
One of the best posts if not the best post I ever read on this site was by Hehawcantona's, to my disbeleif you had ppl rubbishing his post it really staggerd me. Any thread results in absolute slush by the end. It really is a pity baords cant be run more commerically. There would be more all round winners.

Isn't Goodwin a really poor example? At the London EPT eveyone was taking the piss saying next year he was going to be sponsored by "Cottage" Poker because he was broke.

ianmc38

oh and i also agree with what you said about people beating the live 1/2 games. even the best would get destroyed in SSNL games online. That's not a testament to their ability, but more the fact that online poker is a completely different animal where the competition is much tougher anf the game dynamics are totally different. I think with application and learning some of them have the ability to become winning online players.

Goodluck2me

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What would help a lot though is if people like yourself stuck up a few hands the odd time or decided to post occasionally. As I noted to you before in person - the time you corrected me on a very basic mistake I was making was invaluable.

+1, if you`re so good why not join in and change the opinions.

We may have lost our way somewhat and the forum has descended into pointless bitching and backslapping to some extent. That could be changed though if more competent players decided to butt in with high content posts. You are friendly with a group of players that are very good and can bounce ideas back and forth which must be very useful.

I think it was better when people weren`t so friendly and they just gave their frank opinions on hands. When I started posting two years ago the content was much greater and a smaller group of people were very good contributors. Even in Vegas it was really helpful to ask Ocallagh, Roundtower, Reggie, valor etc their opinons on hands, which certainly helps.
John post up a few hands there and see what people think, omaha or w/e.

Ste05

ianmc38 wrote: »

oh and i also agree with what you said about people beating the live 1/2 games. even the best would get destroyed in SSNL games online.

Yup, it's kind of what confused me about the OP here, what does Live Poker in Ireland and representation of Irish people at some donkament in San Remo have to do with the number of Irish people beating 5/10 online Cash games??

Also, boards isn't the only way to guage how many players beating 5/10+ (nor is it even a good way to tell). I'd say there are probably only maybe 3 or 4 posters (max) who are beating those levels here, but I'd say there is more then 6 throughout the rest of the country.

Hawk Eye

dagunman wrote: »

base, B0llix. I did my thesis on internet poker in Ireland. There are over 100k players in Ireland.

Are you implying that theres over 100k Irish players on the internet:eek:. I'd be amazed if the number was over 1,500 playing regularly online.

dagunman

This kinda a mess as I said in my opening post. My main reason behind it was trying to identify why in my opinion we dont have the same amount of good young poker players being produced proportionaly as other nations. My point regarding boards may be a little unfair and before I ever heard of baords was when I was playing at limits from 2/4 to 10/20 and therefore my opinion is based on the quality of advice it offers me.
Lazare poker is a game that involves constant learning. The game is always changing. You will pick up on somethings yourself but wont pick up others. By having a big pool of players theres a bigger exchange of knowlwdge and info. My game has always leaned heavily on the things I have learned from others and I would not be the player I would be today if I didnt have ppl like chub od and reesy to constantly teach me things. The rest I learned from taking shots at bigger games. In the past I played Hali and the coo hu in 10/20 just to learn things from superior players. I am now trying to crack 25/50 and have been for the last year but lesson's up there come at a v expensive price and one I am un willing to pay. Like you Lazare the bottom line is I only care about my own game but unlike you I relaise my games depends on the ppl around me.
Llyod I think myself and others would post more on boards if not every post was meet with 3 ppl telling you your wrong etc. Poker is a game where a certain amount of arrogance is nessecary, but when you post up basic thing like odds to hit a set on the flop and ppl tell you ur wrong you have to wonder why. The few times i posted theory on baords it was like banging my head off a brick wall. You ended up getting dragged into an argument with some idiot who is prob playen .10/.20, you reason with them and give them your line of taught only to relaise there completley locked to their train of taught.

corkie123

Hawk Eye wrote: »

Are you implying that theres over 100k Irish players on the internet:eek:. I'd be amazed if the number was over 1,500 playing regularly online.

to imply that only 1500 play online regulary online is bull every young guy are playing on line and a lot of girls play as well at the moment and take into account us old guys on any given night i say there must be 30k plus playing online at least

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

mistabutta

who is dagunman? a well known player obv.??? or not?? just wondering like

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

strewelpeter

dagunman wrote: »

I did my thesis on internet poker in Ireland. There are over 100k players in Ireland.

I'd be really interested to see that if its available. How many would you say are regualr, >10 hours per week?

dagunman wrote: »

...Advice given is usually very poor...

Thats a bit harsh, of course there is bad advice...its an internet forum FFS! ;-)
In most of the good strategy threads the best thinking filters through.
There is always room for contributors who can communicate well thought out arguments and are mature enough not go all hissy when anyone argues with them.



On the threads original topic - I think it is useful to make a clear distinction between people who play poker as their main source of income at whatever level they play and those sponsored pros whose business is much more concerned with getting TV exposure than actually playing profitably. Most sponsored pros are little more than Meejia hoors who will do anything to be seen and maintain their c list celebrity (e.g Devilfish at the IO).

AKQJ10

mistabutta wrote: »

who is dagunman? a well known player obv.??? or not?? just wondering like

cashrichboy.blogspot.com

New favourite blog. He's barred from most casinos due to public indeceny like running accross a table

opr

dagunman wrote: »

but when you post up basic thing like odds to hit a set on the flop and ppl tell you ur wrong you have to wonder why.

This is unfair and i think it should be pointed out that its not what happened

I rememeber reading this thread at the time and talk about bending the truth. You were and still are wrong in regards to the assumptions you made in that thread on calling for set value.

Have a look at this thread in the HH's forum.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055269469

Opr

Goodluck2me

mistabutta wrote: »

who is dagunman? a well known player obv.??? or not?? just wondering like

I think his real name is Kaizer Soze.

Lazare

dagunman wrote: »

This kinda a mess as I said in my opening post. My main reason behind it was trying to identify why in my opinion we dont have the same amount of good young poker players being produced proportionaly as other nations. My point regarding boards may be a little unfair and before I ever heard of baords was when I was playing at limits from 2/4 to 10/20 and therefore my opinion is based on the quality of advice it offers me.
Lazare poker is a game that involves constant learning. The game is always changing. You will pick up on somethings yourself but wont pick up others. By having a big pool of players theres a bigger exchange of knowlwdge and info. My game has always leaned heavily on the things I have learned from others and I would not be the player I would be today if I didnt have ppl like chub od and reesy to constantly teach me things. The rest I learned from taking shots at bigger games. In the past I played Hali and the coo hu in 10/20 just to learn things from superior players. I am now trying to crack 25/50 and have been for the last year but lesson's up there come at a v expensive price and one I am un willing to pay. Like you Lazare the bottom line is I only care about my own game but unlike you I relaise my games depends on the ppl around me.
Llyod I think myself and others would post more on boards if not every post was meet with 3 ppl telling you your wrong etc. Poker is a game where a certain amount of arrogance is nessecary, but when you post up basic thing like odds to hit a set on the flop and ppl tell you ur wrong you have to wonder why. The few times i posted theory on baords it was like banging my head off a brick wall. You ended up getting dragged into an argument with some idiot who is prob playen .10/.20, you reason with them and give them your line of taught only to relaise there completley locked to their train of taught.

Fair point about having a pool of players around you, but that pool of players is reachable online via here, 2+2 to a far bigger extent, msn and coaching. I obviously know I need to interact to improve my game, I just don't think Irelands lack of talent naturally equates to hindering me as a player.

As for your reasoning for staying away from strat posts, that 'idiot' you got into a row with was me. Yes you're beating bigger games than me, yes you're probably a better player than me, but in that instance you were wrong, and your advice was -EV. Your response that time showed you to have serious ego issues, but hey, you're only a kid (no offence) so it's to be expected.

By the way, when the implied odds for PP's was pointed out to me, I just accepted it and learned from it immediately, I didn't call the other guy an idiot because he proved me wrong, maybe ten years ago I would've.

mistabutta

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Does it really matter?

whats your problem??!?? i'm just wondering who it is.. everyone else in this thread seems to know him and i just want to know but of course i have to get the usual replies.. so unless you can answer me dont say anything at all.

cheers AKQJ10 for the blog link

ditpoker

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

(I'm stuck with ditpoker for strategy discussions).

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

YULETIRED

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And whats your problem??!??

I thought you were asking from a perspective of working out whether he was a successful player or not and you could therefore decide what weight to give to his posts. And maybe that is something we need to stop doing around here and just take posts on the merit of the argument contained within.

So I wasn't being unhelpful for the sake of it.

what an ironic post . imo

Mr Minraise

YULETIRED wrote: »

what an ironic post . imo

.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

DocO

just to touch on the original post - whilst in drogheda i was chatting with michelle abecacus or whatever his name is, he was enquiring do i play much on the european tour - i sort of laughed saying no, havnt had the chance as of yet - and he merely suggested "why dont you just get sponsorship". I found it funny how he said it. Not for one minute am i saying i deserve anything like this, but the point im making is how he thought it was just as simple as asking someone for sponsorship. So in reference to the original point, there are def sponsorships easier got in different countries than over here. Whether it is the companies decision to spend money on advertising, hosting large tournaments, or something else (only they can answer) but sponsorships are more easily got in other european countries

HoLLLLLaments

phantom_lord wrote: »

that's what usually happens when someone posts something that's wrong!

trew dat

YULETIRED

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Whatever Willie.

Well lloyd, even though you don't do it so much these days , what you incorrectly say to the poster in your post is really what I got from reading a lot of your posts last year, so I call that irony. The guy didn't come accross to me as starryeyed at all so why say that to him....