Reloading UPDATE

Gunter Mauser

Was very tempted about buying a drop dead gorgeous remmy in .257 roberts a few years back. This is another great all rounder of a cartridge (quarter bore) that can do it all but more or less has dropped by the wayside to some of the more popular obvious choices.

The .257 will knock the wind out of the .243 especially in +p loadings, It can take vermin to Elk:eek: all in a days work but been a less popular cartridge ammunition for it is hard to find.

Reload this old timer just for the sheer fun of it along with having
something different to boot:rolleyes:

Gunter Mauser

Full bore revolver: shooting with cast lead bullets (no copper jacket ) the option to down load using a lead bullet rather than a copper jacket bullet loaded to factory ammo spec makes a long days target shooting much more pleasant, no soar wrist to contend with for the drive home.:o

Vegeta

I don't mean to be rude but the picture of the injured dude is fake and added for shock tactics.

Looking at the rifle there is no damage to the shooters end, only the barrel.

Sorry for my harsh PC'ness but its a clear fake, if the injured dude was real then fair enough but even for such a HUGE error on the shooters part I doubt he was even hurt at all

Gunter Mauser

Damo with all the best will in the world, that last photo you have up, looks
like a burst case to the un trained eye! The bloodied face will confirm
to some why reloading is not for the average joe but the dedicated.

The reality is if some plonker leaves a bore sighter on or cleaning rod part
in the barrel, any... round reloaded or commershal ammo will result in the
same results. Shooters beware the moral of the story!:mad:

Sethur

Why Reload? ( Cost/Savings – Flexibility – Science – Art - Fun )



Cost/Savings - Commercial ammo here in the South is way too expensive and you can’t legally purchase your ammo in the north and bring it into the South without a big rigmarole, so much for the open borders in the EU.

Flexibility - with one rifle one caliber allowing you to do shooting of vermin to deer stalking to target.

Science - It is a science that brings you into studying ballistics, trajectory's, wind effect on a bullet, basic engineering and a lot more.

Art - As you advance in the Art of reloading, wanting to create a load bring all the component parts together to give you one hole shots on your target.

Fun - The sheer fun of reloading as said before like the fisherman tying flies, the discussion and debate among friends and other shooters in relation to reloading.

Sethur

damo03 wrote: »

It mightnt split with bullets jammed in the barrel but dont leave your boresight in the barrel too.:D On a more serious note i would love to learn how to and be able to reload it would make the swift more interesting. With my views along the same lines of johngalways.

The Fool that did it and the idiot that posted it. this has nothing to do with reloading

This is one of the reasons we need control and training in our sport..

This fool should have not been allowed near a gun..

Did you say this happened in Canada and we are going to use their range rules and setup.

Sikamick

damo03 wrote: »

It mightnt split with bullets jammed in the barrel but dont leave your boresight in the barrel too.:D On a more serious note i would love to learn how to and be able to reload it would make the swift more interesting. With my views along the same lines of johngalways.

_________________________________________________________________

The powers that be should take note that this accident was not the results of reloading but that the person on what looks to be an official rifle range left a bore sighter in the barrel.

This was pure stupidity.

damo03 the smiley face only adds insult to the injury if it did happen.

Can we get back to the genuine people out there that want to show why we should be able to reload, keep the thread alive keep posting.

Rovi

Damo, those pictures have nothing to do with reloading, so I'd be of the opinion that it's deeply unhelpful to the 'Reloading Campaign' to post them in this way.

Here's part the blog of the gentleman who took those photos (Karl Leffer)-
http://jeffersonian.therealgunguys.com/blog0609.html#1284
Scroll to the bottom of the page for high-res versions and his report of the incident.
Note that he states: "There were no injuries."
The photo of the injured person on the stretcher has long since been de-bunked as a fake in relation to this incident.
He lived at the time in Portland, Oregon, so I'd say it'd be reasonable to surmise that the range in question was somewhere thereabouts.

This incident was as a result of human error in leaving an obstruction in the barrel; 'reloading' simply had no bearing on it one way or the other.

Sparks

I'm getting more and more sceptical of the other photos as well Rovi. I've no doubt that firing with an obstructed barrel is just bad news all round, but the extent of the damage - I mean, the Mythbusters programme happily fired away with a completely plugged barrel with the plug hammered into the barrel not just sitting there, and they couldn't get even a moderate split, let alone a complete banana effect - and the split is so exceptionally neat as well - four parts, equal in size, very clean tears all along the barrel - I'm not convinved they're faked, but I'm not convinced they're real either. The real accidents are never quite so clean.

Gunter Mauser

.303 (7.7mm) would benifit greatly if it could be reloded for classic target shooting events / hunting. Not so easy to find Ammo for this classic beauty but well worth the effort.:) It appears she just makes it onto the
restricted list:( which is a pity as .303 is not up to matching the likes of
the 7.62 but still should be easy to license.

IRLConor

Sparks wrote: »

I'm getting more and more sceptical of the other photos as well Rovi. I've no doubt that firing with an obstructed barrel is just bad news all round, but the extent of the damage - I mean, the Mythbusters programme happily fired away with a completely plugged barrel with the plug hammered into the barrel not just sitting there, and they couldn't get even a moderate split, let alone a complete banana effect - and the split is so exceptionally neat as well - four parts, equal in size, very clean tears all along the barrel - I'm not convinved they're faked, but I'm not convinced they're real either. The real accidents are never quite so clean.

There could be at least two explanations for that:

• The barrel in the photos above could have had pre-existing damage (maybe damage near the crown which would start a split from there?).
• The Mythbusters may have been using a heavier, tougher barrel.

That said, the peeling effect on the photos above doesn't look right, to get the forces to do that I would have thought you'd have to plug the barrel very firmly at the muzzle, so firmly that it would sustain the pressure in the barrel long enough to begin to split it. That would seem rather tricky to do.

damo03

Lads post deleted sorry about the hassle didn’t mean to offend anyone. I did know the injured party was a fake. I agree with IRLConor on his theory of barrel damage. There would be higher stress raisers at the crown due to machining etc of the barrel for this to start a rupture and once it started it would travel along the rifling. I have seen personally the result of a shotgun being fired after being pushed into earth/ clay and it was worse than balooning. And I wouldn’t call the shooter a clown either as he is a very responsible hunter of many years. Didn’t mean to side track the thread it was just a hasty act

Gunter Mauser

Damo,don't worry or loose any sleep over it, as the same thing can happen to a Bishop.:eek:

Sethur

? What advice would you give the newbie in starting reloading.

What are the basic tools that you need, not heads or powder or primers just the basics for starting off.

by the way damo03 all is forgiven

damo03

Good article in aprils shooting sports. He reckons ya need Single station loading press, dies an shellholder,weighing scales(I don’t think the ones from the bathroom will do),powder trickler vernier calliper, reloading data boook, chronograph, Balllistic software, powders ,primers, bullets,case trimmer, case cleaner and a neck chamfering tool. I don’t reload so maybe more or less is needed.

foxshooter243

Sethur wrote: »

What advice would you give the newbie in starting reloading.

What are the basic tools that you need, not heads or powder or primers just the basics for starting off.

First thing i would reccomend you to do is buy some reference books ,
in the form of reloading manuals, I have on my shelf the hornady reloading manuals alongside speer , Lee , Nosler and Sierra alongside a good instructional book like the A B Cs of reloading by Bill Chevalier,there are plenty of other good books out there too, these will give you a knowledge base to start with, these books will also advise as to the requirements of the task. The basic start up kit begins with your reloading press, mines is an RCBS rockchucker but there are others on the market which all do a good job, Sinclair international make some really classy set ups, the dies are interchangeable on these presses so if you purchase a set of rcbs dies they fit a lee press and so on..for the beginner a hand priming tool such as the rcbs type is the best method of priming as it makes the task of priming one which you pay particular attention to, a set of imperial calipers as the reloading manuals are all made in the states, i use a comporator which is made by sinclair and fits on the calipers so that the overall length of the finshed round is measured at the bullets shoulder or the ogive which gives a more stable measurement.A set of dies for your caliber, if its for a bolt rifle i would reccomend the lee collet neck sizing
dies as they give excellent results and lengthen case life due to the neck being resized with little working. A set of scales for powder weighing either digital or balance beam, a few tools for case preperation such a primer pocket cleaner and a case neck chamfer and deburring tool , a case neck
trimmer will also be one of your initial purchases as the brass gets used it requires trimming, some calibres /loads more than others, a couple of reloading blocks in the suitable calibres, a shell holder, this is used to seat the case on when its in the press and in the hand priming tool , youll recieve one free if you buy a set of lee dies, youll need 2 for each calibre
for handyness.There are other items which you may add to your set up as time goes on such as a concentricity guage which you would use to measure case neck concentricity and bullet run out, a kinetick hammer or bullet puller for wrongly seated bullets:eek: but the start up gear is fairly minimal as you can see , the first requirement is knowledge/safety.
save your brass and get out the brasso! you can get a tumbler later on.
and a good magnifying glass comes in handy to check for neck splits and
such especially in the beggining when you are slightly paranoid:D

Grizzly 45

Depends on how easy or complex you personally want to make it.
You can buy LEE loadall kits for one specific calibre,load and press and hand load one shell at a time.{not a bad starting kit for those who want to see if you really like this aspect of shooting].Or spend thousands buying Dillion Precision motorised reloading stations.

Sethur

GRIZZLY45 Could put a picture of comporator, excuse my ignorance but I am not that well up on reloading.

And could you explain why you would measure so that the overall length of the finshed round is measured at the bullets shoulder or the ogive which gives a more stable measurement rather than bullet tip to case base.

foxshooter243

Sethur wrote: »

GRIZZLY45 Could put a picture of comporator, excuse my ignorance but I am not that well up on reloading.

And could you explain why you would measure so that the overall length of the finshed round is measured at the bullets shoulder or the ogive which gives a more stable measurement rather than bullet tip to case base.

measuring cartridge length across the bullet tips is not reliable as its not uncommon for variations in bullet lengths due to the way they are made,
it can be up to 25 thou at times,therefore the most reliable point to measure from is the bullets ogive-pronounced o jive-as its here that the bullet first makes contact with the rifling , so if you measure from here
youll find the seating depth which gives you most accuracy, measured from a reliable point-this in turn gives you better repeatibility in your handloads.
for this reason the comparator is a useful measuring tool and as its supplied with several inserts it covers a wide range of calibres.

on the subject of chronographs/ ballistics software,
theres enough free software on line to compute downrange ballistics and create useful drop charts
for the beginner, the chrono will be useful for checking your muzzle velocity and the balance of your load etc, but its not strictly required from the start, however the purchase of one will add to your understanding of reloading as you can measure the changes your making as you increase powder charges and adjust your bullet seating depth etc-its also neccesary to know your muzzle velocity and not try and assume it from reloading tables as its required for inputing into ballistic programs etc...many jaws drop on seeing the results after chronographing .

chem

Gunter Mauser wrote: »

.303 (7.7mm) would benifit greatly if it could be reloded for classic target shooting events / hunting. Not so easy to find Ammo for this classic beauty but well worth the effort.:) It appears she just makes it onto the
restricted list:( which is a pity as .303 is not up to matching the likes of
the 7.62 but still should be easy to license.

Am I missing somthing here? Is it not up to and inc .308? So how can the .303 be on the restricted list? I have an SMLE in .303 and didnt think it will be on the restricted list

Gunter Mauser

Sorry to burst your balloon chem.:(

Sparks

The SMLE shouldn't make it onto the restricted list. It's under .308, it's longer than 90cm, it's not semiautomatic - there are no grounds to include it under the SI.

chem

Cheers sparks:D I`ll stop drinking the vodka and move back to the beer:D tought I`d missed somthing in the CJB! Enfields for all YAHOO!!!:D

Not that drunk realy;):p

Sethur

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunter Mauser
.303 (7.7mm) would benifit greatly if it could be reloded for classic target shooting events / hunting. Not so easy to find Ammo for this classic beauty but well worth the effort. It appears she just makes it onto the
restricted list which is a pity as .303 is not up to matching the likes of
the 7.62 but still should be easy to license.

Quote=chem.. Am I missing somthing here? Is it not up to and inc .308? So how can the .303 be on the restricted list? I have an SMLE in .303 and didnt think it will be on the restricted list



Sethur here:rolleyes:, Im not that well up on the measurement but I don't think any of the old classic type rifles should be on the restricted list.


Gunter Mauser What make you think that it will be?

Also can anyone tell me what would be the cost for the basic starting off kit for reloading inluding powder,primers,heads for 6.5x55.

Gunter Mauser

Metric calibres for small arms are usually expressed with an "x" between the width and the length, for example, 7.62x51 NATO. This indicates that the cartridge uses a 7.62 mm diameter bullet, loaded in a case 51 mm long. Similarly, the 6.5x55 Swedish cartridge has a bullet of 6.5 mm, and a case length of 55 mm. The means of measuring a rifled bore varies, and may refer to the diameter of the lands or the grooves of the rifling; this is why the .303 British, measured across the lands, actually uses a .311 inch bullet (7.70 mm vs. 7.90 mm), while the .308 Winchester, while dimensionally similar to (but should not be considered interchangeable with) the 7.62x51 mm NATO cartridge, is measured across the grooves, and uses a .308" diameter (7.82 mm) bullet.

A little Wiki saves some time!

Rovi

Sparks wrote: »

The SMLE shouldn't make it onto the restricted list. It's under .308, it's longer than 90cm, it's not semiautomatic - there are no grounds to include it under the SI.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but according to my reloading manuals, the .303 British employs a bullet of between .311 and .317 inches (standardised at .313"), and strictly speaking, is therefore bigger than the .308" threshold.
It may slip in under the old 'calibre = the numbers on the barrel' system whereby a .220 Swift was the same as a .22LR, but I wouldn't like to be betting the house on it.

edited to add:
Looks like Gunter got here before me!

chem

Gunter Mauser. you may very well be righ but when it comes to calibers, your local super is not going to produce his "bullet dimensions, a history" book from his shelf and flick to the page containing .303 ammo information.

He will most likely say ".303 sure thats a smaller number then .308, now where`s my rubber stamp":D I hope;)

Gunter Mauser

Bending the rules better get it cleared up as we don't want any more grey areas:eek: Lets just say Your super may be super on the day but some other super not so super. So we go back to the, Ah Chem me auld flower its you be gorra 303;) for you anything!

foxshooter243

chem wrote: »

Gunter Mauser. you may very well be righ but when it comes to calibers, your local super is not going to produce his "bullet dimensions, a history" book from his shelf and flick to the page containing .303 ammo information.

He will most likely say ".303 sure thats a smaller number then .308, now where`s my rubber stamp":D I hope;)

as my FO asked me " is .243 less than .25" ?;)

Traumadoc

Sethur wrote: »

? What advice would you give the newbie in starting reloading.

What are the basic tools that you need, not heads or powder or primers just the basics for starting off.

by the way damo03 all is forgiven

RCBS do a good video teaching reloading. Anything I have seen on youtube is very amature