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Reliability..........the big myth(s)......

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  • 10-04-2008 12:17am
    #1
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭


    so, according to HonestJohn, here's the current state of affairs for electrical problems in the UK.

    NOT GOOD, IS IT ? Audi, BMW and Mercedes..........all worse than Alfa?? Crumbs.......:( All the nice stuff, the stuff you want............seems to be rubbish. And having had most of those, over the last few years, it's not wide of the mark, either.........

    If you look under engine reliability, even stalwarts like Porsche are appalling - so much for quality engineering, then...........

    Was thinking of a V70, but that gets slated, too.........

    I think it's time to back to motorbikes - at least you can get performance and style for reasonable money...........and not much grief in the mechanical dept, either............long time since I saw a motorbike at the side of the road...........

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #2
    jayok
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭jayok


    I'm not debating the figures, but just wondering about the interpretation. For example, for Honda has 20.55% of faults are electrical, Alfa Romeo 19.55%. This would suggest that Alfa's are more reliable here.

    But on the overall reliability index, Honda get's 37.91 whereas Alfa get's 153.65 (eek). So, of the 37.91 failures by Honda 20% of them are electrical (7.58) where as for Alfa 19.55% are electrical (30.03).

    DAIHATSU is another example. So I assume that this figure in isolation doesn't really mean anything, you need to take the overall reliability index, where Alfa is still well below average (60).

    Am I correct in this?


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    #3
    deegs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭deegs


    Look at it this way, alfa's have ahd years of slating..... therefore they try harder these days for more reliable components than say the likes of BMW and honda etc who always took that for granted.

    And alfa look sweeeeet ;)


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    #4
    jayok
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭jayok


    deegs wrote: »
    Look at it this way, alfa's have ahd years of slating..... therefore they try harder these days for more reliable components than say the likes of BMW and honda etc who always took that for granted.

    Eh... No.
    And alfa look sweeeeet ;)

    Agreed, but this isn't a beauty contest.


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    #5
    deegs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭deegs


    jayok wrote: »
    Eh... No.

    How do you qualify that? The 159 is one of the most reliable cars out there in all reports.


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    #6
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Audi, BMW and Mercedes..........all worse than Alfa??
    Altho focussing on electrical problems alone is not indicitive of the overall picture, Audi, BMW and Mercedes were never top of the pack for reliability anyway... I don't think any of them ever made the Top 10.


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    #7
    itarumaa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭itarumaa


    I really dont think that Daewoo is so good you can see in the stats:)

    But it is also really confusing if you compare overall stats to stats like in engine etc


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    #8
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    jayok wrote: »
    Eh... No.

    ...and there are the words of someone who hasn't driven or in any way experienced a modern Fiat Auto group car...


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    #9
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    MYOB wrote: »
    ...and there are the words of someone who hasn't driven or in any way experienced a modern Fiat Auto group car...

    Jayok can speak for himself but he might have been saying "no" to some other part of the sentence, like "BMW and honda etc who always took that for granted." Most reliable car on that list is a Honda. I don't think they got there by taking stuff for granted.


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    #10
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    Engines are probably a better reflection of reliability.

    http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=engine&apc=3128339010848601

    As is time off the road, a better measurement of breakdown severity

    http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=avglabour&apc=3128339010848601


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    #11
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    maoleary wrote: »
    Engines are probably a better reflection of reliability.

    http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=engine&apc=3128339010848601

    As is time off the road, a better measurement of breakdown severity

    http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=avglabour&apc=3128339010848601

    Is the best one of all the Reliability Index itself?
    http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=relindex&apc=3128339010848601


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    #12
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    maoleary wrote: »
    Engines are probably a better reflection of reliability.

    http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=engine&apc=3128339010848601

    As is time off the road, a better measurement of breakdown severity

    http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=avglabour&apc=3128339010848601
    On this basis a BMW is better than a Toyota... no mean achievement that. And nearly 4 times better than a Scooby:eek:. The more I look at it the more I think that that survey doesn't make sense though. There's no way a Scooby is 4 times more likely to let you down than a BMW with engine trouble.

    That said BMW engines are very good for reliability provided they're looked after and you stay away from noted trouble spots like the 02-04 320d etc. It's suspension and electrics that will go wrong in a BMW usually.

    Though having looked the reliability index itself it's clear that while BMW are some way from the top, they are still a better bet than several makes, and some way below the average score of 112.


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    #13
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,712 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Is the best one of all the Reliability Index itself?
    http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=relindex&apc=3128339010848601

    I reckon so. I takes every other factor into account. Some surprising results there.


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    #14
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Is the best one of all the Reliability Index itself?
    http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=relindex&apc=3128339010848601

    Depends on how they weight the individual groupings into the index. It could be very subjective!


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    #15
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    E92 wrote: »
    On this basis a BMW is better than a Toyota... no mean achievement that. And nearly 4 times better than a Scooby:eek:. The more I look at it the more I think that that survey doesn't make sense though. There's no way a Scooby is 4 times more likely to let you down than a BMW with engine trouble.

    As one of the lads in work has just said - is the Scooby engine failure rate by any chance down to the kind of person who drives them rather than reliability :D


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    #16
    Slidey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭Slidey


    MYOB wrote: »
    As one of the lads in work has just said - is the Scooby engine failure rate by any chance down to the kind of person who drives them rather than reliability :D
    Not sure about that but the rear piston on the left bank of the turbo is made out of chocolate!!


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    #17
    cashmni1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 629 ✭✭✭cashmni1


    The very nature of a survey, is just that. Its a survey and not fact. It will never cover all eventualities.
    Not all cars will have the same problems as listed in the survey.
    Keep in mind that a survey will never ever cover everyones car or everyones opinion on whatever "they" are surveying.
    It has flaws, just like statistics!


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    #18
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    cashmni1 wrote: »
    The very nature of a survey, is just that. Its a survey and not fact. It will never cover all eventualities.
    Not all cars will have the same problems as listed in the survey.
    Keep in mind that a survey will never ever cover everyones car or everyones opinion on whatever "they" are surveying.
    It has flaws, just like statistics!
    That would all be true, if it was correct.

    It's not a survey. It's warranty claim data.


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    #19
    ambro25
    Registered Users Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭ambro25


    MYOB wrote: »
    As one of the lads in work has just said - is the Scooby engine failure rate by any chance down to the kind of person who drives them rather than reliability :D

    Ummm... dunno... what kind of person drives a Forrester? A Justy? An Outback? A Legacy? ;)


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    #20
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    ambro25 wrote: »
    Ummm... dunno... what kind of person drives a Forrester?

    Lesbians. And they're known for being hard on cars.


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    #21
    jayok
    Registered Users Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭jayok


    deegs wrote: »
    How do you qualify that? The 159 is one of the most reliable cars out there in all reports.

    I qualify it as that Honda, BMW et al, are not now taking their reliability for granted.
    ...and there are the words of someone who hasn't driven or in any way experienced a modern Fiat Auto group car...

    Not true. Driven a few when I've hired cars - the diesels are fliers. The built quality seems fine, but I have no experience of ownership of these new models so I am not making any claims here.

    FWIW I'm not approaching this as "Alfa's are sh1te and Hondas are deadly" brigade. I appreciated manufacturers improve with time. But I was simply trying to put the the results of "Alfa Romeo are more reliable that say Honda or BMW" into context of the OP.

    Don't see the issue.


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    #22
    zilog_jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,638 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    Kinda not really surprising that Daihatsu are top of the index there - I'm sure things would be different if they sold a lot more in the UK. I'm surprised Mazda are still very high (higher than Honda), especially considering their apparently dodgy diesels in the 6...


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    #23
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    zilog_jones wrote: »
    Kinda not really surprising that Daihatsu are top of the index there - I'm sure things would be different if they sold a lot more in the UK. I'm surprised Mazda are still very high (higher than Honda), especially considering their apparently dodgy diesels in the 6...

    Could be a key word there.


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    #24
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Henry Ford III wrote: »
    I reckon so. I takes every other factor into account. Some surprising results there.

    Yeah, whats the deal with this? PORSCHE 242.99


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    #25
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Stekelly wrote: »
    Yeah, whats the deal with this? PORSCHE 242.99
    Porsche is (not surprsingly) the most expensive of all to fix. Average repair cost is £810.50. That drags Porsche's score waaayyy down.

    By comparison Mazda is £214.50 and Skoda £170.99.


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    #26
    green123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭green123


    going on this information a punto is more reliable than a fiesta

    and a punto is just as good as a polo

    nearly all fiats are more reliable than a toyota corolla

    a renault megane is more reliable than a corolla

    in fact the corolla is one of the worst cars , coming in at number 91

    so either this reliability infomation is wrong or alot of people on this forum are wrong


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    #27
    cozmik
    Closed Accounts Posts: 984 ✭✭✭cozmik


    galwaytt wrote: »
    I think it's time to back to motorbikes - at least you can get performance and style for reasonable money...........and not much grief in the mechanical dept, either............long time since I saw a motorbike at the side of the road...........

    If we all rode motorbikes our A&E departments would implode.


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    #28
    S.I.R
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭S.I.R


    car relyablity vairyys per user/poll taker as not all of these people can drive cars correctly let alone maintain them...

    the toyota is very good but isnt flawless

    fiats are the worst cars on the road


    as for eadverage fix costs , when im there... including parts it works out about 500 quid per fix though thats mainly engine fixing... but meh , thats life , why complain about prices when you should be just happy you have a car !


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    #29
    siralfalot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 447 ✭✭siralfalot


    S.I.R wrote: »
    fiats are the worst cars on the road

    yawn.....:rolleyes:


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    #30
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    S.I.R wrote: »

    fiats are the worst cars on the road

    Statement you frequently make and have never been able to back up. How about you stop making it until you can?


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    #31
    Max_Damage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭Max_Damage


    S.I.R wrote: »
    fiats are the worst cars on the road

    I'd be more inclinded to say Renault's are the worst, however Fiat's are fairly bad too (with the exception of the Panda).

    I worked in a FIat/Alfa garage before (not as a mechanic mind you), but the Grande Punto from what I saw was poorly built, plastic trimmings falling off, body panels not fitted properly and out of alignment, boot and bonnet release cables breaking, and so on. And it happened to more than one car too. And as for the Stilo, utter rubbish, electrics were constantly failing on them.


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