Champions League Final 2008

gimmick

Moscow seems an odd choice, and given the fact it will be most likely 2 premier league clubs involved, it will make travel all the more difficult, certainly price wise.

Who do people think will be involved, and who will win?

I think it will be Liverpool Vs Man Utd with the latter win 3 - 0.

Mitch Connor

whichever genius at Uefa decided to put the CL final in a country that requires EU citizens to have a Visa to get into needs to be shot.

gimmick

Do you not have to have some sort of visa for Turkey also?

Racing Flat

Don't know why people are discounting Barcelona so readily. hope to God if Liverpool go through, which will be tough, that it's Barcelona, as to watch Liv V Man U would be too tense and difficult to enjoy.

cruiserweight

gimmick wrote: »

Do you not have to have some sort of visa for Turkey also?

Yeah that you could get at the border. Thay had a special visa for the game that was free, so I have a stamp in my passport that says I was at the champions league final.

Mitch Connor

cruiserweight wrote: »

Yeah that you could get at the border. Thay had a special visa for the game that was free, so I have a stamp in my passport that says I was at the champions league final.

Uefa have as the Russian government to do something similar, but last i heard they weren't moving on it - official regular visas will be required.

RE*AC*TOR

Its also not widely known (although its not necessarily relevant anymore) but Luzhniki stadium was the site of one of the biggest football disasters of all time. Up to 340 fans died there in a crush in 1982. Was kept hush hush for a long time by the Soviets.

gimmick

Racing Flat wrote: »

Don't know why people are discounting Barcelona so readily.

I would watch more Spanish football than English, and Barcelona are not a great side at all this season. Their defense is shakey, shakier now that Puyol is suspended for the first leg. Plus they are not playing like a team. Very disjointed. Nowhere near as good a side they were in 2006.

I would love if Barca won the CL again this year, but I would be absolutely shocked if they get within 2 goals of Man Utd over 2 legs.

smemon

I hope we have a Chelsea / Utd final as they are the best sides left in the champions league.

The romantics will go for Utd / Liverpool and if that did happen, the losers would never be able to live it down again...

Based on performances so far in the CL, Utd deserve to win it.

Break it in to league format up to now and it's between Barca and Utd... Barca getting a bashing but they're undefeated and have won 8 of 10 games, just like Utd.

Man Utd. 10 played. 8 wins, 2 draws. 26 points. +13
Barcelona. 10 played. 8 wins, 2 draws. 26 points. +13
Liverpool. 10 played. 6 wins, 2 draws, 2 defeats. 20 points. +18
Chelsea. 10 played. 5 wins, 4 draws, 1 defeat. 19 points. +12

Mitch Connor

gimmick wrote: »

I would watch more Spanish football than English, and Barcelona are not a great side at all this season. Their defense is shakey, shakier now that Puyol is suspended for the first leg. Plus they are not playing like a team. Very disjointed. Nowhere near as good a side they were in 2006.

I would love if Barca won the CL again this year, but I would be absolutely shocked if they get within 2 goals of Man Utd over 2 legs.

Milito and Marquez are a stable enough partnership - it is picking Thuram (as they did against Schalke) that really causes them problems IMO. He just doesn't seem with it anymore.

gucci

it seems a bit daft alright considering the travel problems etc but i wont be going regardless of who gets there :-( although i hope liverpool get there and win!

scruff321

at this stage of the competition i think its very hard to call, i know barca are in bad form but with the quality they have in their squad you cannot rule them out,manu are the inform team,chelsea scrapped by fenerbahce, and this is liverpool's favourite competition form really does go out the window!

RE*AC*TOR

I think both semis are too close to call. On current form I'd probably give UTD the edge over Barca, although if the Boro match is an indication that UTD may have peaked a little early, who knows.
Moscow is a long way to go (as were Athens and Istanbul) for English fans. I think UEFA would be wary of a UTD / Liverpool final from a security point of view. There are certainly asshole elements of both supporter groups, and tensions would be high. Mind you I can't imagin the Russian police taking any prisoners.
Obviously the rivalry between Chelsea / UTD is less so, but Chelsea have a more organised hooligan / headhunter element. Perhaps this type or organised hooliganism is in fact easier to counteract.
Still I'm sure UEFA would prefer to be dealing with one English club vs Barca.

Mr Alan

Uefa have made a bollox of it again by picking Moscow.

Need a visa, need a match ticket to get a Visa, supposedly need 2-3 nights booked in a hotel to get a visa, hotel prices are around £500 per night.

watever teams get there, the atmosphere will be ****e, hazard a guess that it'll be 75% corporate people in the crowd.

uefa dont care about fans.

Xavi6

FFS any chance of getting the semis out of the way before we start this? It's just going to turn into a 'my team are better/luckier than your team so we'll be there' thread.

IrishMike

smemon wrote: »

Man Utd. 10 played. 8 wins, 2 draws. 26 points. +13
Barcelona. 10 played. 8 wins, 2 draws. 26 points. +13
Liverpool. 10 played. 6 wins, 2 draws, 2 defeats. 20 points. +18
Chelsea. 10 played. 5 wins, 4 draws, 1 defeat. 19 points. +12

Excellent stats
Anyone got them for say the top 10 teams in the CL?

iregk

Mr Alan wrote: »

Uefa have made a bollox of it again by picking Moscow.

Would you all get off your high horses and have a bit of perspective. Why have uefa made a mess of it? By picking Moscow! It may not occour to you but they don't know who is going to be in the final at the time of picking the stadium. Lets say it was Lokomotive Moscow and Dinamo Kiev in the final, would it be a balls up then? No its ignorant fans that don't understand why their precious teams have to travel so far away and get a visa. Oh the hardship.

Should they just keep the big leagues happy and alternate the final between england, spain, italy and germany? Or how about anywhere in western europe for that matter and ignore trying to promote football on the eastern block.

They alternate the stadiums on the basis of countries that play in european competition. Believe it or not russia does play football so they have their turn. If ireland actually got a good stadium and infrastructure then we could have it as well. Would that make you happy?

gimmick

Tauren wrote: »

Milito and Marquez are a stable enough partnership - it is picking Thuram (as they did against Schalke) that really causes them problems IMO. He just doesn't seem with it anymore.

Can't agree with that. Marquez is a disaster. I really reckon the only reason he is there is for marketing in Mexico. Milito is an excellent player. I would have him and Thuram ahead of using Marquez every day of the week.

Mr Alan

Uefa gave the final to the highest bidder, without caring about fans. This is not news to anyone.

By having the final in Moscow, they have priced out 99% of fans from every country except Russia.

gimmick

gimmick wrote: »

Can't agree with that. Marquez is a disaster. I really reckon the only reason he is there is for marketing in Mexico. Milito is an excellent player. I would have him and Thuram ahead of using Marquez every day of the week.

Makes no sense, they have Geovanni dos Santos.

I rate Marquez to be honest but he's better as a defensive midfielder.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Uefa have made a bollox of it again by picking Moscow.

Need a visa, need a match ticket to get a Visa, supposedly need 2-3 nights booked in a hotel to get a visa, hotel prices are around £500 per night.

watever teams get there, the atmosphere will be ****e, hazard a guess that it'll be 75% corporate people in the crowd.

uefa dont care about fans.

I see what you're saying but UEFA have to spread the final around to promote the game. Its the Russian tourism office/government you should be blaming.

gimmick

Deleted User wrote: »

Makes no sense, they have Geovanni dos Santos.

I rate Marquez to be honest but he's better as a defensive midfielder.

But Giovanni has only broken through this year, while Marquez has been there for quite a while at this stage. I also think Giovanni is not quite ready for the first team. Too lightweight. Bojan is a far far better player than him.

Xavi6

Deleted User wrote: »

Makes no sense, they have Geovanni dos Santos.

I rate Marquez to be honest but he's better as a defensive midfielder.

+1 to that

Mr Alan

Deleted User wrote: »

I see what you're saying but UEFA have to spread the final around to promote the game. Its the Russian tourism office/government you should be blaming.

i disagree Neil.

I agree that they have to spread it around, but they have to do so responsibly, stadiums should be up to the job (granted from all reports, this one is...but Athens and the Attaturk were not) and the country in question should be easily accessible from all corners of Europe. Moscow most certainly isnt. Also transport and accomadation to the cities in question should be affordable. Why alienate the people who follow teams week in week out in order to appeal to non-football people?

imo its a disgrace.

Xavi6

Mr Alan wrote: »

i disagree Neil.

:eek: How dare you,. Us Neil's are never wrong. Look at me for instance. Never wrong. Ever.

Mr Alan

I used to work with Neil, and he is always wrong-especially about football

He's about as Manc as ya can get btw! shame on you sticking up for him

gimmick

Without being from Manchester I assume?

Mr Alan

No Neil is from Utd fan-he's from London, obviously.

Xavi is from Manchester.

And i am from Liverpool.

Now carry on with your business

kaimera

I'll have to find a place in Tehran to watch it...with no booze

mike65

Thats the third eastern venue in 4 years - where's next years final?

Mike.

Mr Alan

Rome, i think?

Everyone knows how welcoming their fans are, more super work from Uefa.

gimmick

Mr Alan wrote: »

No Neil is from Utd fan-he's from London, obviously.

Xavi is from Manchester.

And i am from Liverpool.

Now carry on with your business

Well, that didn't work

Xavi6

Mr Alan wrote: »

I used to work with Neil, and he is always wrong-especially about football

He's about as Manc as ya can get btw! shame on you sticking up for him

You know as well as I do that there's only one team from Manchester

egan007

smemon wrote: »

Based on performances so far in the CL, Utd deserve to win it.

Luckily they don't decide it on performances so far

It's knockout now - past performances have nothing to do with Semi Finals

To the OP - Football teams travel all the time I can't imagine Visas are problematic.

Mitch Connor

iregk wrote: »

Would you all get off your high horses and have a bit of perspective. Why have uefa made a mess of it? By picking Moscow! It may not occour to you but they don't know who is going to be in the final at the time of picking the stadium. Lets say it was Lokomotive Moscow and Dinamo Kiev in the final, would it be a balls up then? No its ignorant fans that don't understand why their precious teams have to travel so far away and get a visa. Oh the hardship.

Should they just keep the big leagues happy and alternate the final between england, spain, italy and germany? Or how about anywhere in western europe for that matter and ignore trying to promote football on the eastern block.

They alternate the stadiums on the basis of countries that play in european competition. Believe it or not russia does play football so they have their turn. If ireland actually got a good stadium and infrastructure then we could have it as well. Would that make you happy?

Rubbish - the odds on two Russian teams gettig to the final are remote at best (when was the last one?) so for virtually every team you would expect to get into the final it will be neccessary for the fans to get Visas - which won't be easy given the numbers and time. So your are going to have 10's of thousands of fans applying for visas at the same time and needing them within a 4 week periodIf Russia didn't have the visa issue the game placement wouldn't matter - but it does, so it is an issue. At the least Uefa could have said you will not get the final unless you make it easier for fans to get to the game, but they didn't and apparently the Russian government don't have any intention of making things easier at this point.

gimmick wrote: »

Can't agree with that. Marquez is a disaster. I really reckon the only reason he is there is for marketing in Mexico. Milito is an excellent player. I would have him and Thuram ahead of using Marquez every day of the week.

I agree that Marquez had been poor last season and some of this, but he is getting back to his pre-WC2006 form and looking good.

iregk

Tauren wrote: »

Rubbish - the odds on two Russian teams gettig to the final are remote at best (when was the last one?) so for virtually every team you would expect to get into the final it will be neccessary for the fans to get Visas - which won't be easy given the numbers and time.

I know its remote two russian teams getting to the final but I was using them as a case in point. Also you'll find I mentioned Kiev and correct me if I'm wrong but thats not a Russian team.

A lot of people here seem to think its unfair based on the fact that the teams going to be traveling are from England and Spain with expensive hotel rooms. I'm sure there are cheaper hotels in Moscow than 500 a night. Again do people simply want the final rotated around the 4 big countries?

As one person put it. It should only been in a country thats easily reached from the whole of Europe. Ok then. England and Spain are on the west coast (so to speak) of Europe. Italy/Greece ... the south. Russia the east. So thats leaves Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Ok so lets only have the final in those countries!

Mitch Connor

iregk wrote: »

I know its remote two russian teams getting to the final but I was using them as a case in point. Also you'll find I mentioned Kiev and correct me if I'm wrong but thats not a Russian team.

A lot of people here seem to think its unfair based on the fact that the teams going to be traveling are from England and Spain with expensive hotel rooms. I'm sure there are cheaper hotels in Moscow than 500 a night. Again do people simply want the final rotated around the 4 big countries?

As one person put it. It should only been in a country thats easily reached from the whole of Europe. Ok then. England and Spain are on the west coast (so to speak) of Europe. Italy/Greece ... the south. Russia the east. So thats leaves Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Ok so lets only have the final in those countries!

Most coutries can be easily reached, and my gripe is not with the cost of getting there, it is the fact it will be damned awkward to get there with thousands of people applying for Visa's at the same time, and it needing to be sorted so quickly - it will be an administrational nightmare, and it could end up with people having tickets but not getting a Visa so they can't go t the game. Again, if Russia had no Visa policy, or made it a lot easier for people to get one in the run up to the final (you have a ticket, it counts as a Visa or something) I would have no issue, but the fact is there is a Visa issue, and it could be a highly problematic issue.

Just for completeness, the rail network is pretty good throughout Europe, so it isn't all that difficult for people in europe to get anywhere within it without too much hassle.

Lister1

Any truth in the rumor that Abramovich had block booked all the decent hotels in Moscow for the dates around the final? Anyone else see this report a dew weeks back?

cournioni

Xavi6 wrote: »

You know as well as I do that there's only one team from Manchester

Indeed...

http://www.tshirtsunited.com/images/designs/0161mir_design.jpg
---
On topic Moscow is a terrible venue for any supporter travelling to it. My Dad was at the Russia vs. Ireland match there a few years back and he said he would never ever go back. Police as crooked as a Swiss road and everywhere is completely run by the mafia. Then you have the trouble from the local skin heads... He saw a group of skin heads holding up an LVF banner in an attempt to rise the Irish fans, when that didn't work they started firing bottles at the Irish fans. Not to mention what went on in Moscow after Japan knocked them out of the WC in 2002.

Not a fan friendly place at all.

iregk

Lister1 wrote: »

Any truth in the rumor that Abramovich had block booked all the decent hotels in Moscow for the dates around the final? Anyone else see this report a dew weeks back?

That rumour has ran for the past couple of years, replace the city with what ever one the final is in. No truth in it at all I'd say.

lpool2k05

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rome, i think?

Everyone knows how welcoming their fans are, more super work from Uefa.

Yeh 2009 Rome!!
2010 Madrid! so it does get better
2011 should be wembley!

Killme00

lpool2k05 wrote: »

Yeh 2009 Rome!!
2010 Madrid! so it does get better
2011 should be wembley!

Yep
2009 Olympic Stadium Rome
2010 Bernesbeu Madrid
2011 should be CROKER!!!

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

You know as well as I do that there's only one team from Manchester

Yea United, there is a team in blue around Stockport though!! :D:D

I see Mike beat me to it, interesting 3 of the last 4 finals were in eastern cities. And the Paris final was for the 50th anniversary otherwise it probably would have been in Timbuktu.


I agree Alan btw, UEFA should have got guarantees from the Russians about the VISA issue. No doubt with it being a home game for Chelski IF they make the final, then their fans will be ok :D

PHB

UEFA don't give a **** about fans. It's nuts to have a final in Moscow.
Nowhere near enough hotel space, extremely expensive to get to, and then theres the VISA cost!
If you don't travel with the club you'll have trouble.

Mr Alan

see iregk?

if me and PHB are agreeing, you know you are onto a loser

IrishMike

I agree with PHB and Mr Alan.

I actually feel dirty after saying that.

kenco

Any one planning to go over for the game should note that kick off time is a quarter to 11 to cater for the west euro tv audiences!

Lots of English fans of one shade or another with nothing to do all day but hit the pubs. Come around 8 or 9pm the 'fun' with the locals and police should be interesting.....

Mr Alan

If Utd and Liverpool meet in this game

(which i dont think they will)

It will, quite literally, end in bloodshed.

iregk

Mr Alan wrote: »

see iregk?
if me and PHB are agreeing, you know you are onto a loser

Hahaha, fair point. To be honest I covered myself in dirt earlier in the week and agreed with PHB on a different point.

I will conceed the visa aspect on all points as honestly I wasn't aware of the visa need when I first posted so for those (PHB) that made that the basis of their argument fair enough. For people that complained simply on the fact that its moscow I stand firm.

RE*AC*TOR

If Liverpool do end up going, there'll be a lot of hacked off decent fans who travelled to Athens who won't go near Moscow.

Malice

Mr Alan wrote: »

If Utd and Liverpool meet in this game

(which i dont think they will)

It will, quite literally, end in bloodshed.

If Man Utd and Liverpool meet in the final there won't just be bloodshed in Moscow unfortunately. There's enough dickhead supporters on both sides who won't be able to help themselves wherever they are.

As for the stadium choice, I agree with what's been written on here already. The stupidity in having a venue that requires a visa essentially means more tickets for "corporate hospitality" rather than the average supporter.
There's an excellent article here. It's from a Liverpool fan site but that shouldn't stop you reading the article even if you don't follow the team! It discusses Athens, Istanbul, Moscow and Rome (next year's location). This is the Moscow section:

This year there are 4 domestic sides still in the competition, and the final venue being Moscow. It's now confirmed that at least one of ourselves or Chelsea will be travelling to Moscow, and with the form Barcelona are in, pretty much certain that United will be there as well for an all english final. This is a city that is home to one of the most corrupt police forces this side of South America. A very expensive city, and one very difficult to reach without paying top dollar for a chartered and organised flight. Then there is the visa issue.

UEFA have stated that all fans must produce a match ticket and proof of accomodation before they will be granted a visa. There will obviously be no day trips, as UEFA state everyone travelling must stay over on the night of the game in order to be granted a visa. Are there enough hotels rooms available to cope with that demand? And what happens to those that don't get a match ticket from the club until just over a week before the final, depending on the sale criteria? Will they be able to obtain a visa in that short a time period?

William Gaillard, the UEFA Spokesman said this: "You will not get a visa without an official ticket, it will be as simple as that...and visa requirements will be strict. Fans will also have to stay overnight on the evening of the final and give the name of their accommodation before receiving a visa."

Then add the cost cost for the visa. Surely UEFA would have negotiated, like that did with Turkey, that the visa will be waived on production of match ticket? It seems not. I just can't see how the Russian Embassy will be able to cope with 40,000+ visa applications in the space of 3 weeks before the final.

Take into account the policing and corruption in Moscow, the accessibility issues, cost issues and visa issues - just how did UEFA deem Moscow to be a suitable venue to host the biggest game in club football, but Madrid was not adequate until they made those ground improvements? Madness. Or maybe there is a reason, covered by William Gaillard again when he stated, due to the strict ticketing and visa policies in place, "We don't expect to see thousands of intoxicated ticketless supporters hanging around Red Square causing trouble". In other words. He doesn't want us there.

No matter what happens in the next few weeks, I won't be going to Moscow. I never thought I could hear myself saying that I'd miss my side in a European Cup Final, but Moscow is a reciepe for disaster. Istanbul and Athens will seem like a trip to Aston Villa away in comparison.

I have a friend that travels everywhere with Liverpool, but has missed our previous trips to Moscow due to the abuse he thought he'd recieve, just for being black. I know of another asian man that has followed Liverpool home and away for years. He travelled to Moscow a few years ago for a Liverpool game, and on attempting to enter the stadium, the police ripped his match ticket infront of his face, being told hid kind weren't welcome. Others were mugged and beaten by the local police for no reason at all. Yet this city is deemed fit to host a European Cup Final?

Thank you UEFA.

The second quote from the UEFA spokesman is very interesting. They essentially won't want fans congregating which given that the game won't kick off until late due to television scheduling could well be a recipe for disaster.