Dab Radio

Enda Caldwell

More Music wrote: »

DRM is not and will not be a replacement for FM as we know it. DAB is the current offering and it's all we have. Whether it's DAB or DAB+ is not an issue, that's just a software/codec update on the MUX equipment.

FM will be around for a long-time yet, just like MW still is.

Enda, you do have a habit of name/place dropping. We know you're not working in Ireland, you don't need to keep telling us.

Have you actually stood in the transmitter halls of RTE? Have you witnessed THEIR DAB rigs working? Well then stop having a go at them!

Yes, I have, I worked there too remember!

Enda Caldwell

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/digitalradio/0,39029435,49271811,00.htm

More Music

Enda Caldwell wrote: »

Yes, I have, I worked there too remember!

I know, I was just quoting back your earlier response.

For every anti DAB link you put up, I could post 10 more pro DAB links. It's almost like you want it to fail.

You could say internet radio has even worse audio quality than DAB. 20kbps stream anyone? Internet radio is gaining popularity but even that won't outsell DAB anytime soon.

For our lifetimes at least, radio will continue to serve people with RF from a mast on a mountain. The transport mechanism isn't that important to 99% of the end users.

RTL can make mistakes too, you know. Just like the BBC did when they first launched DAB. They went ahead without the support of the commercial sector.

L1011

And for every pro Internet radio link you post, theres still massive unescapable problems that you've not tried to even answer.

The Internet is not a broadcast media. Some shows will continue to have hundreds of thousands of listeners at one time, resulting in a requirement for huge, always-on bandwidth capacity.

There is not yet, not on the horizon, and to be honest never will be a method to provide fast, low-lag, high QoS internet to moving vehicles.

Existing codecs in use by the majority of internet 'broadcasters' either consume huge amounts of bandwidth for them and for users - high rates - or provide abysmal quality. AAC+, as used by DABv2 and DRM+ solves this, but has high licencing costs and very poor support.

The future is going to continue to be, as More Music says, "RF from a mast on a mountain" - it is the only affordable way, and THE only way for mobile listening. And for cost-effective, widespread digital RF broadcasting, DAB/DABv2 is the only choice.

Enda Caldwell

MYOB wrote: »

And for every pro Internet radio link you post, theres still massive unescapable problems that you've not tried to even answer.

The Internet is not a broadcast media. Some shows will continue to have hundreds of thousands of listeners at one time, resulting in a requirement for huge, always-on bandwidth capacity.

There is not yet, not on the horizon, and to be honest never will be a method to provide fast, low-lag, high QoS internet to moving vehicles.

Existing codecs in use by the majority of internet 'broadcasters' either consume huge amounts of bandwidth for them and for users - high rates - or provide abysmal quality. AAC+, as used by DABv2 and DRM+ solves this, but has high licencing costs and very poor support.

The future is going to continue to be, as More Music says, "RF from a mast on a mountain" - it is the only affordable way, and THE only way for mobile listening. And for cost-effective, widespread digital RF broadcasting, DAB/DABv2 is the only choice.

Well if some stations are pulling out of this digital agreement.. then they must not see it as cost effective?!

To be honest, there will be problems ahead for all...

Radio|Man

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool-than to speak and remove all doubt !

Enda Caldwell

Radio|Man wrote: »

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool-than to speak and remove all doubt !

I am just as entitled to speak as anyone else posting on this thread.
Most of you seem to own a Digital Radio and think that this gives you "enlightenment" with regard to DAB, DRM, and any other form of Digital Radio.

Opinions, as much as they may differ are merely that, just opinions.

" There will be problems " - not my words, but the words of one senior person in UK radio when we spoke about Channel 4 Radio and how that will affect this industry.

Can you conclusively show me all the stations falling in line behind this DAB idea???.. - when it is clear from speaking to people actually involved in the situation that it is not a foregone conclusion re: DAB being accepted by all stations in Ireland as MYOB, More Music and Radio Man seem to think it is the only way forward for Digital Radio.
It may be a "quick fix" to be seen to be doing something, for now, the usual Irish way of thinking just like the roads and mostly everything else in The Banana Republic.

Why did Ireland never build automobiles? What happened the ones they DID assemble for Ford, VW and Toyota?

Why am I able to sit in a friends house in Italy and on freeview watch a Russian TV station covering the US elections or a French TV station - In English I might add .. whilst RTE are nowhere to be found on the freeview spectrum over here? No, you have to pay for them on Sky.

You are not all right, all of the time. I am not sorry to be posting on here and don't care if you think it foolish. When I told someone the other day here in Europe - a broadcast media analyst who covered DAB for Radio publications internationally and has links with BBC they said categorically that RTE must be wasting their time with DAB as it is not the technology of the future.

As I said before, it is you Radio Man and MYOB and More music that look the fools as you yourselves have not all the facts re: the international Digital Radio situation and are trying to shoot me down in flames just because I offer another angle on this debate.

As I said before I am too old a cat to be F***ED by a kitten.

Radio|Man

Enda, I think if you do your research, you will find that I am actually more "DAB" than anyone here, am well aware of the argument for and against and really could not be bothered getting in to a null and void conversation about DRM.

Tell me, how do you cater for regional stations on a DRM network ? How do you regionalize stations ? How do you cater for decent audio bandwidth with so many stations to cater for ?

As I have stated many times before, overall, DAB is the best alternative to FM than has been conceived in the last 15 years. I state this after many many weeks spent researching, talking, investigating and deliberating this, and every other technology. I have been around Europe to see what others are up to and anyone making any progress, is making it with DAB.

As with any technology, it will take a while to get it right, but it is a good start, certainly a heck of a lot better than DMB or DRM.

With regard to RTE and the upcoming launch of new services-these are "digital" services, not DAB services. They will be available on many more platforms other than DAB so when referring to them within the "DAB" argument, bare this in mind.

L1011

Stations are pulling out temporarily as there is no regulatory framework in place. That is all.

"Why did Ireland never build automobiles?"

We did - Shamrock and some small sportscar makers. It wasn't financially viable. Ditto assembling knockdown kits.

RTE are not FTA on satellite for rights reasons, as the main problem. They cannot afford FTA rights for their imported content. I thought anyone who worked in broadcasting would know this?

Additionally, their satellite carriage is provided free-of-charge by BSkyB in exchange for encryption. The costs of carriage and EPG slots if they paid for it would be in the region of a few million euro a year.

As goes what the technology of the future is - NOTHING which is at a stage which is implementable is 'technology of the future'. Its technology of the present. And DRM/Internet radio are niche products of the present whereas DAB is a mainstream product of the present in the country we have a symbiotic relationship with and whos media we devour incessently.

Enda Caldwell

MYOB wrote: »

Stations are pulling out temporarily as there is no regulatory framework in place. That is all.

"Why did Ireland never build automobiles?"

We did - Shamrock and some small sportscar makers. It wasn't financially viable. Ditto assembling knockdown kits.

RTE are not FTA on satellite for rights reasons, as the main problem. They cannot afford FTA rights for their imported content. I thought anyone who worked in broadcasting would know this?
quote]

It's still lame, RTE waste valuable millions of taxpayers money in other areas.

L1011

Thats fairly accurate, but in this case, the cost to benefit in their eyes at least wouldn't justify FTA.

Initially RTE were uninterested in satellite entirely, as it happens, except as a platform for getting Radio 1 to a wide audience as it happens!

Enda Caldwell

MYOB wrote: »

Thats fairly accurate, but in this case, the cost to benefit in their eyes at least wouldn't justify FTA.

Initially RTE were uninterested in satellite entirely, as it happens, except as a platform for getting Radio 1 to a wide audience as it happens!

I am 33 years on this earth and all my life RTE have probably done one thing that made me say a) They know what they are doing and b) this is good, worth the money and puts us on the map. - Riverdance.

What a barren, bleak and boring radio landscape my youth radio listening would have been were it not for pioneers like Chris Cary starting Radio Nova. I might add that he was already doing Satellite Radio and Pirate TV and a whole manner of other wonderful things that RTE failed to do.

I will never be happy with RTE and have no faith in them, never will I fear.

Fuzzy Clam

Enda Chttp://static.boards.ie/vbulletin/images/editor/color.gifaldwell wrote: »

I am 33 years on this earth and all my life RTE have probably done one thing that made me say a) They know what they are doing and b) this is good, worth the money and puts us on the map. - Riverdance.
My God!
What a barren, bleak and boring radio landscape my youth radio listening would have been were it not for pioneers like Chris Cary starting Radio Nova. I might add that he was already doing Satellite Radio and Pirate TV and a whole manner of other wonderful things that RTE failed to do.
Chris was doing satellite radio when almost nobody else was. Unfortunatly not too many listeners either. Would you not have accused RTE of wasting money had they attempted it back then? You are correct that RTE did not do pirate TV




I will never be happy with RTE and have no faith in them, never will I fear.

Ditto

tSubh Dearg

This is a very interesting debate, but can it continue without the sly digs at each other please.

This is an official warning to the whole thread.

LordSutch

Anyone bought a DAB roof Aerial for the house? and does it need to go on the chimney stack or ......... ?

DMC

Receiving DAB is a bit like that property show.

Location, location, location.

Once we know where you are, then we can tell you what you can get

LordSutch

Bray Co Wicklow (Dublin side) .........

L1011

Camelot wrote: »

Bray Co Wicklow (Dublin side) .........

If you can get Dublin FM stations you should have a decent stab at getting DAB, I actually can't remember what coverage is like in Bray

I have a Maplins DAB 'roof aerial' in my attic to stablise reception here - with a whip it can burble but I get 5 bars / no decode errors*. Took a bit of positioning, but in the end its ended up just resting on some screws wrapped in plastic screwed in to the wall supports of the attic room. The feed from it is split using a passive splitter and all, to two receivers.

If you signal is VERY weak, outside would be required, and height would help.

*my uber geeky DRM/DAB receiver will even show how many frames were error corrected, its sub 1%, major improvement over a ground level whip.

mbur

Enda Caldwell wrote: »

I will never be happy with RTE and have no faith in them, never will I fear.

We should always be "on the case" all broadcasters. I've just finished reading "The rise and rise of Kerry Packer" and believe me there are a lot worse thing than a stogy public broadcaster.

LordSutch

MYOB wrote: »

If you can get Dublin FM stations you should have a decent stab at getting DAB, I actually can't remember what coverage is like in Bray

I have a Maplins DAB 'roof aerial' in my attic to stablise reception here - with a whip it can burble but I get 5 bars / no decode errors*. Took a bit of positioning, If you signal is VERY weak, outside would be required, and height would help.

I wonder would it pick-up DAB signals from Wales or Northern Ireland?

L1011

Camelot wrote: »

I wonder would it pick-up DAB signals from Wales or Northern Ireland?

I've tried. I've failed.

I didn't try very hard mind... I get FM from NI (where not obscured by locals here) so I suspect if I paid more attention to positioning I might. For BBC National you've also got the choice of possibly trying for the IOM transmitter?

LordSutch

I get the distinct impression that its going to be a bit of a bugger when 'FM' is let go .............

At least FM signals could be 'pulled-in' from Wales or NI - but DAB seems to be border bound.

What a pain in the arse :mad:

LordSutch

I rang Newstalk in the end & they confirmed that they are indeed finished transmitting on DAB, all other commercial stations will also cease DAB transmissions from next week beginning (December/08) ......

Which leaves what on DAB ?

RTE Radio One - RTE Radio Two - RTE Lyric FM - RTE Chill - RTE Gold.

I think thats about it - from the beginning of December 2008

Radio|Man

RTÉ goes live officially live with six DAB services on Monday December 1st: RTÉ Choice - speech, RTÉ Junior - kids, RTÉ Gold, RTÉ 2XM, RTÉ Pulse and RTÉ Chill. rte.ie/digitalradio will have full schedules for four of the services: RTÉ Choice, RTÉ Junior, RTÉ 2XM and RTÉ Pulse.

aphex™

None of my dab stations are working now. I'm in Dublin. Did a full scan too.

GREAT RELAUNCH RTE.:mad:

Radio|Man

None?

None of the commercials or none at all ?

Nothing wrong with my reception here.

aphex™

Radio|Man wrote: »

None?

None of the commercials or none at all ?

Nothing wrong with my reception here.

None working

They have "service not available" messages on them. They also have ?marks beside the station names.

I bought the radio in argos during the summer. So it's not like it's an old one.

Do you think they messed with the broadcast specifications (ie changed settings?). Newstalk went over the weekend for me. Last week the Rte junior/ choice ones weren't working and that was when the ?s started appearing beside station names (rte only it seemed).

Was listening to Phantom about 9.30 on it and now it's gone with the rest.

DMC

As predicted, MUX 2 and all the commercial stations are off the air. Only RTÉ Radio's offerings are on.

It was always marketed as a trial before its launch today. Caveat Emptor.

aphex™

Aw, ****. That's it. Rte just working now.

Do the other stations need to reapply? Why weren't they given a chance to reapply so that they would be on air for the relaunch like RTE was?

DMC

RTÉ's press release from October, stating that...

... it intends to roll-out DAB digital radio to 56% of the population over the coming three years however the broadcaster has stated that it will not progress with this roll-out until there is a regulatory framework in place that will allow commercial broadcasters to move to digital radio. This is to ensure that the whole industry moves together for the benefit of the listener.

Trick of the Tail

There is no framework or mechanism for BCI-licenced stations to apply for DAB.

The only reason RTE's DAB is on is that (for now) RTE is licenced directly by ComReg.

A.

Council Kid

Digital radio with nothing but RTE? Might as well shut it down!

Mossy Monk

DAB is a failure then. A tiny part of the country with coverage and no commercial channels.

L1011

Over on Broadcasting there's suggestion Phantom are attempting to speed up their return; and the warning messages on the DAP stations mentioned 'Spring 2009' as when they expected to be back. Hopefully the BCI will get the finger out as goes getting some form of framework in place ASAP...

VERYinterested

I too hope they return. We bought a nice little Phillips DAB radio during the summer because where I work in Harcourt St is the wrong side of several tall buildings that block FM reception. It is bitty at best. Our lives were 'transformed' when we got the DAB radio, it was great we could listen to all the Independent stations loud and clear but for some reason the MUX that the RTE stations is on seems to have a weaker signal (not sure how that's possible, but the fact remains) but we didn't mind as we rarely listen to RTE. Now with the Independents gone, all we are left with is RTE reception that digitises itself anytime someone goes next or near the radio. Luckily there is an FM receiver on the radio but we're back to bitty FM reception! Hopefully something gives and the stations realise that they were being listened too on DAB by quite a lot of people.

future_plans

Is there a problem with Radio Kerry on DAB? It seems to have disappeared off the list. I can't find it again by scanning, but no luck!! Anybody else have this problem?

BrianD

All the independents are gone from DAB as the trial has ended.

tba

I don't give a **** about chill fm or any of this other RTE crap, Ive switched my DAB receiver off and am using the FM receiver.

never though I would miss radio kerry

sidekick

How does one speed up the BCI? Honestly, I don't understand how the 'trial period' can end and then it takes months (at best) to get the commerical stations back on air? Why did the BCI not plan to finalise the commerical element of the bill to coincide with the end of the trial period? We, the consumers, are the ones left suffering.

It just doesn't make any sense. I want my commerical stations back! Now! The RTE offering just isn't cutting it for me.

Very unhappy with the current situation.

LordSutch

I concur.

L1011

Email the BCI and complain; may also help to remind the commercial stations they've lost you as a listener to RTE (neglecting to mention you've got FM if you so wish ) while they're offair; as if they assume nobodies listening, they're unlikely to care; ditto possibly dropping a mail to DCENR as they 'control' the BCI in this regard.

sidekick

Email sent to BCI today. I wonder how long it will take for them to respond. I'll also ping the radio stations.

More Music

sidekick wrote: »

Email sent to BCI today. I wonder how long it will take for them to respond. I'll also ping the radio stations.

What are your ping statistics for the radio stations?

DMC

Request timed out?

zenno

does anyone know if i can receive dab radio in leitrim thanks