Are Arsenal 2008 the same as Liverpool 1996?

--amadeus--

In the 95-96 season Roy Evans was settling into the managers job at Anfield. While people tend to dismiss his time in charge it is forgotten that he had the team playing some magnificent football.

That year he gave regular places to some genuinely exciting young players - Redknapp, McManaman and Fowler began to make thier mark that season. This was blended well with established top rank players (Barnes, Rush) and big money buys (Babb, Scales and of course Collymore). With Dalglish moving upstairs at Blackburn and Utd relying on a very young team a lot of people tipped LFC to win teh title.

In fact they were in strong contention until April when they fell away (finishing 3rd) and suffered heartbreak in the FA cup final (thosewhite suits). And so a season of huge promise ended with a disappointing whimper. The future looked bright though with an exciting young team playing good football.

And then it fell apart. The next season they went backwards and the stylish football stultified into Barnes and Redknapp playing crab passes to each other and back to defence - passing for passings sake. Exciting young players faded. McManaman and David James fell to the glitter of big money and celebrity. Rob Jones and Redknapp to endless injuries. Some - like Fowler - never really recaptured those early highs. And some never fulfilled the promise or justified the fees (Collymore). Bad buys triggered panic and it took over a decade to repair the damage.

Are Arsenal at a similar crossroads? Could the same thing happen them? I hope not - they have a huge amount of potential but could it go wrong?

PHB

Nope
If anything, Liverpool are closer to that than Arsenal are. But neither are.

People constantly write off Arsenal, but you have to remember, Wenger understands the English league and how to win it, something that Rafa and Grant have yet to show.

UnitedIrishman

--amadeus-- wrote: »

In the 95-96 season Roy Evans was settling into the managers job at Anfield. While people tend to dismiss his time in charge it is forgotten that he had the team playing some magnificent football.

That year he gave regular places to some genuinely exciting young players - Redknapp, McManaman and Fowler began to make thier mark that season. This was blended well with established top rank players (Barnes, Rush) and big money buys (Babb, Scales and of course Collymore). With Dalglish moving upstairs at Blackburn and Utd relying on a very young team a lot of people tipped LFC to win teh title.

In fact they were in strong contention until April when they fell away (finishing 3rd) and suffered heartbreak in the FA cup final (thosewhite suits). And so a season of huge promise ended with a disappointing whimper. The future looked bright though with an exciting young team playing good football.

And then it fell apart. The next season they went backwards and the stylish football stultified into Barnes and Redknapp playing crab passes to each other and back to defence - passing for passings sake. Exciting young players faded. McManaman and David James fell to the glitter of big money and celebrity. Rob Jones and Redknapp to endless injuries. Some - like Fowler - never really recaptured those early highs. And some never fulfilled the promise or justified the fees (Collymore). Bad buys triggered panic and it took over a decade to repair the damage.

Are Arsenal at a similar crossroads? Could the same thing happen them? I hope not - they have a huge amount of potential but could it go wrong?

The difference with Liverpool was that they had the whole 'Spice Boys' tag at the time with a bit of a like for the nightlife of Liverpool. Collymore was a prime example, 20 plus goals the season before arriving at Liverpool but he had his on problems and his own friends that dragged him into pubs and clubs most nights of the week. Liverpool's youngsters were not far behind the likes of Scholes, Beckham and Neville in terms of skill when they arrived on the scene, but they didn't have the same determination and had the idea in their head that they'd already made it because they were in the first team. Each group took their own path and I'd say the likes of James and Fowler are really regretting the choices they made that year.

Arsenal won't fall apart like Liverpool did. They are too big and too rich to fall back next year. They just didn't have a big enough squad this year to cover the likes of Cesc and Adebayor and Gallas.

Royale with Cheese

--amadeus-- wrote: »

In the 95-96 season Roy Evans was settling into the managers job at Anfield. While people tend to dismiss his time in charge it is forgotten that he had the team playing some magnificent football.

That year he gave regular places to some genuinely exciting young players - Redknapp, McManaman and Fowler began to make thier mark that season. This was blended well with established top rank players (Barnes, Rush) and big money buys (Babb, Scales and of course Collymore). With Dalglish moving upstairs at Blackburn and Utd relying on a very young team a lot of people tipped LFC to win teh title.

In fact they were in strong contention until April when they fell away (finishing 3rd) and suffered heartbreak in the FA cup final (thosewhite suits). And so a season of huge promise ended with a disappointing whimper. The future looked bright though with an exciting young team playing good football.

And then it fell apart. The next season they went backwards and the stylish football stultified into Barnes and Redknapp playing crab passes to each other and back to defence - passing for passings sake. Exciting young players faded. McManaman and David James fell to the glitter of big money and celebrity. Rob Jones and Redknapp to endless injuries. Some - like Fowler - never really recaptured those early highs. And some never fulfilled the promise or justified the fees (Collymore). Bad buys triggered panic and it took over a decade to repair the damage.

Are Arsenal at a similar crossroads? Could the same thing happen them? I hope not - they have a huge amount of potential but could it go wrong?

You've answered your own question there. Arsenal have a proper manager, Liverpool didn't. Houllier wasn't really one either, and Benitez hasn't shown any progress in the league.

Mr Alan

i heard someone make an interesting point the other day.

Has Wenger ever built a title winning defence and metality or were they things that were already at the club when he inherited it?

Royale with Cheese

Yeah he inherited that from a team that hadn't won the title in about 6 years when he took over, and it lasted until 2004 when he won his last league title.

DerekD Goldfish

Reminds me pf the days when I didnt hate liverpool(and was still a utd fan)
before Hoiller 1 and 2 turned me against them

UnitedIrishman

Mr Alan wrote: »

i heard someone make an interesting point the other day.

Has Wenger ever built a title winning defence and metality or were they things that were already at the club when he inherited it?

Errm.. the unbeaten team of 03-04

Campbell, Cole, Toure were brought in with only Keown there from before his time.

--amadeus--

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

You've answered your own question there. Arsenal have a proper manager, Liverpool didn't. Houllier wasn't really one either, and Benitez hasn't shown any progress in the league.

That's harsh on Evans but there is some truth in it. There is a story that an un-named player (must have been James) wanted to skip a few days training to go for a modelling assignment somewhere. Evans told him he would be fined for each session he missed so the player just pulled out his chequebook, wrote it up and did the modelling job. Hard to see Ferguson doing that...

I think Evans was too soft (as a reaction to teh too harsh Souness) and he lacked the steel to pull the team back. Wenger has the nerve to get rid of players he sees as not performing and he has the teams respect. He's also proven himself again and again.

But he refuses to spend money. And potential doesn't always translate - it did for Utd's 96 team but not Liverpools. The Arsenal squad must have taken a confidence hammering over the last month or two. I think it's possible that a couple of players could de-rail or fade. There are already signs of potential injury weakness in a few as well.

I think that the next season could be a lot tougher than people think for them

Mr Alan

ok and since the last of the old school players has left, how have Arsenal fared?

and this is not my judgement, its an ex arsenal players, cant remember which one.

PHB

They challenge for the league this year. They led for a good while.
Had it not been for injuries, they would have won I think, or at least come very close.
They were also in a very very very close CL quarter final, and lost to United in the FA Cup.

Malice

I think Arsenal 2008 are far better than Liverpool 1996. The most obvious department where they are immediately better is in defence. James, Bjornebye, Babb, Ruddock, Scales, Kvarme versus Almunia, Sagna, Gallas, Toure, Clichy? No contest!

Offensively they were pretty good but I watched virtually every cross and corner come into the Liverpool box expecting James to drop the ball or Ruddock to fail to get off the ground or Babb to be staring at his own feet. Now if we could only transplant the Hyypia and Henchoz partnership of 2001 back to 1996!

mike65

and lost to United in the FA Cup.

They threw the FA Cup.

Mike.