WWE Dropped The Ball....

gimmick

Where have you felt WWE have dropped the ball in the past hen it came to character enhancement, feuds which were never, a guy who should have been champion but never happened?

I was thinking one major one which WWE dropped is not putting Cena and Orton together earlier on in their career while they were still mid carders. One was IC Champ and the other US Champ for quit a bit, not sure it over lapped or not. I just feel had they been on the same roster, they could have develped a good feud which could run to where they are today, much like how Rock HHH, Rock Austin, HHH Austin went in the late 90s. It would have given their current impasse far more depth.

I'm hoping this is what they are doing with MVP and Matt Hardy.

Kane-N-Nite

Not giving Kane a "World Title" for 10 years.:eek::eek:

fatal

Kane-N-Nite wrote: »

Not giving Kane a "World Title" for 10 years.:eek::eek:

I have to agree with that one.Its very hard to still believe that he's the "the big red monster" anymore

Handsome Bob

• Carlito- when he got the 'somewhat' push in late '05/ early '06 I don't think the WWE really had their heart in it. Carlito's attitude has declined but only because the WWE let the opportunity pass to really push him.
• Benjamin- I don't buy the whole 'complacent' stuff. His mic work hasn't improved in over 5 years. Is it his fault? Somewhat. But I don't think anyone really invested their time into helping him improve.
• Matt Hardy- V.1 was one of the most enjoyable gimmicks I have seen in a long time. He arguably gets one of the best pops on SD!, with ease. But they fired him and then brought him back with 'the plucky guy who lways gets beat and comes back' gimmick. Pathetic.
• Christian- absolutely crazy that they didn't do enough to try and keep him.

rizzla

The Invasion angle.

Handsome Bob

rizzla wrote: »

The Invasion angle.

Yep, they could have really made one big awesome storyline. Instead they chose to bring the big boys one by one to maximise their product sale. Think what the invasion angle could have been had they brought in Steiner, Mysterio, Goldberg, Booker T, Ric Flair and the NWO all in one go. Instead we got Stasiak, De Mott, Awesome and DDP's humilaiting angle.

rossie1977

WWE NWO, the WWE version sucked as soon as hogan, hall, nash had to give that awful spiel in the ring at No Way Out 2002; by the end of their piece, the NWO had lost all momentum

Hogan v Flair (a missed opportunity, reading bret harts piece i now understand what vince was thinking but still this feud was guaranteed money and an opportunity lost at the time)

ECW as a hardcore show; i am not sure how much it would have drawn but it would have made a hell of alot of people happy if the ECW tv show continued along the lines of ONS 1 and 2 and not become just another name for velocity

Machismo Fan

rossie1977 wrote: »

WWE NWO, the WWE version sucked as soon as hogan, hall, nash had to give that awful spiel in the ring at No Way Out 2002; by the end of their piece, the NWO had lost all momentum

I disagree, they dropped the ball after WM. Come on, who didn't love it when they destroyed the ambulance with a truck. Though the promo at No Way Out did suck.

Vince135792003

RVD in 2001.

Mr.Nice Guy

- Christian in 2005 is the one that springs to my mind. I'm convinced that if it had been the Attitude era they would have pushed him to the moon instead of pushing him aside because of his size or whatever. I reckon he'd be a main eventer like Edge right about now if they'd just had some f*cking sense.

- RVD in 2001 and 2002 was insanely over. They should have done more with him then instead of waiting years.

- Chris Jericho was shamefully handled following his Undisputed Title run. I think his title match with Cena in 2005 was the first one-on-one title match he'd had for several years which is ridiculous.

- Booker T was getting over in 2003 and they pissed all over his momentum.

- Owen Hart should have been given a lot of backing following the Montreal Screwjob and a good feud with Shawn Michaels, as there was a ready-made storyline for him there, but they put the breaks on it which was a mistake in my view.

In terms of angles, the Invasion angle should have delivered more.

AlphaMale 3OO

Never putting the world title on Doink. He could have carried the torch into the attitude era.

Vince135792003

Eric Bischoff. He was good in his role but he could have meant so much more. Having him hug Vince on his debut was so stupid. They killed a money angle instantaneously.

Vince135792003

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

- Owen Hart should have been given a lot of backing following the Montreal Screwjob and a good feud with Shawn Michaels, as there was a ready-made storyline for him there, but they put the breaks on it which was a mistake in my view.

Owen was pushed pretty hard coming out of it. Don't forget, Steve Austin was on the rise at that time, 3 months from 'Mania and even though Owen was over at the time, he was never going to be Steve Austin.

They could have followed up on Owen more a little bit I guess. They did seem to give up on him as a good guy too soon I thought.

Mr.Nice Guy

Vince135792003 wrote: »

Owen was pushed pretty hard coming out of it. Don't forget, Steve Austin was on the rise at that time, 3 months from 'Mania and even though Owen was over at the time, he was never going to be Steve Austin.

They could have followed up on Owen more a little bit I guess. They did seem to give up on him as a good guy too soon I thought.

Yeah I know Austin needed to be the guy they got behind but I feel Owen could have been pushed harder as a strong babyface. Maybe there was too much bad blood from the Bret situation I dunno but it's a shame he never really managed to make it beyond the mid-card.

gimmick

Vince135792003 wrote: »

They could have followed up on Owen more a little bit I guess. They did seem to give up on him as a good guy too soon I thought.

Personally I neevr liked Owen Hart as anything other than a heel. Agreed that its a pity he wasn't pushed harder, but perhaps it was in the pipeline? That said, at the time of his death his gimmick was pretty idiotic.

Bubs101

Obviously Christian is the big one.

Not signing AJ after his trial match is also fairly high up

The development of Rene Dupree. Could have had a good career, looked the part and wasn't terrible in the ring. Also, the French thing gave him instant heel heat.

The handling of Crystal if that is what made Lashley leave.

Not developing their tag team division enough ATM

Vince135792003

gimmick wrote: »

Personally I neevr liked Owen Hart as anything other than a heel.

I'm with you there. He was a natural heel.

oneofakind32

The cruiser weight title. It had some credability there for a while but all that went out the door when they put the strap on jaqulin, then chavo sr. and the final insult to years of international wrestling tradition, Hornswoggle! While guys like london, Henrick and Akio never got the chance to run with it

orestes

oneofakind32 wrote: »

The cruiser weight title. It had some credability there for a while but all that went out the door when they put the strap on jaqulin, then chavo sr. and the final insult to years of international wrestling tradition, Hornswoggle! While guys like london, Henrick and Akio never got the chance to run with it

The tag team and intercontinental titles have gone the same way if you ask me. It's been ages since I actually cared about either of these titles, and I'm a massive Jeff Hardy mark. It just seems like these titles don't mean anything anymore, like they are just there to try and give people some semblance of credibility instead of being titles that are actually worth something in their own right.

Charlie

- Matt Hardy, at various stages of the last 5 years.

- Not really dropped the ball, but DX of 2006 was lame. From 97-99 they were cutting edge, pushing the envelope. In 2006 they were a pair of 40 yr olds trying desperately (and failing) to be a bunch of 20 yr olds.

- Ric Flair since Evolution disbanded. Flair could have been used alot better, particularly on the mic. Why would you get soap writers to script Flair's lines!!!

- Paul Heyman. Why they let this chap go from the company is beyond me. Whether he is booking, on-screen talent, or announcing he will always be an asset.

- Kane v. Kane. The beginning of this feud really intrigued me and I thought it would give some insight and backstory to the Kane character. Sadly, like most things in 2006, the WWE dropped the ball.

- Stone Cold Steve Austin in 2003. Whether Austin was right to walk or not, Vince backed him into a corner knowing how volatile a character Steve Williams was, resulting in a muted ending to one the wwe's greatest, in-ring carear.

Handsome Bob

charlie mchugh wrote: »

- Matt Hardy, at various stages of the last 5 years.

- Ric Flair since Evolution disbanded. Flair could have been used alot better, particularly on the mic. Why would you get soap writers to script Flair's lines!!!

- Paul Heyman. Why they let this chap go from the company is beyond me. Whether he is booking, on-screen talent, or announcing he will always be an asset.

- Kane v. Kane. The beginning of this feud really intrigued me and I thought it would give some insight and backstory to the Kane character. Sadly, like most things in 2006, the WWE dropped the ball.

- Stone Cold Steve Austin in 2003. Whether Austin was right to walk or not, Vince backed him into a corner knowing how volatile a character Steve Williams was, resulting in a muted ending to one the wwe's greatest, in-ring carear.

Spot on about Matt Hardy who has the most natural pop in terms of never really getting a huge push. Very competent in the ring and great on the mic.

Spot on about Flair and Heyman.

Absolutely spot on in terms of Kane. The ending to that feud was an anti-climax and was pathetic. It really let me down.

Since Stone Cold is my all time favourite I strongly agree with your sentiment. Never got any real closure to his career because they kept on trying to bring him back. Well, WM25 is in Houston Texas and there are rumours that it will be his last match. It will require some storyline that's all I will say.

+1

daveyie84

orestes wrote: »

The tag team and intercontinental titles have gone the same way if you ask me. It's been ages since I actually cared about either of these titles, and I'm a massive Jeff Hardy mark. It just seems like these titles don't mean anything anymore, like they are just there to try and give people some semblance of credibility instead of being titles that are actually worth something in their own right.

There's too many titles in the wwe now. With three different brands on one ppv they can't fit all them in and make them credible. The ECW belt is now where the intercontinental used to be. That 's probably why the mid card is so weak right now.

WWE have been dropping balls ever since taking WCW. Saying that they dropped the ball not signing AJ ? That is a blessing for AJ as they would have ruined him.

HBK

one i havent seen mentioned so far...

Sean O'Haire - the devils advocate charactor back from 03/04 ....loved this character....'im not telling you anything you dont already know'

Once the stuck him with Piper, i felt it went downhill

Tricity Bendix

Indeed. Its a shame it didn't work out for him. And Nathan Jones. That fella was pretty awesome.

Handsome Bob

b.ie curious wrote: »

Indeed. Its a shame it didn't work out for him. And Nathan Jones. That fella was pretty awesome.

Nathan Jones is a blemish on the Undertaker's WM record. He simply sucked tremendously.

big syke

i think character development has been lacking an awful lot in the wwe in the past 2-3 years. i think a mix of steph mcmahon being "lead" creator and lack of backstage character development are some of the reasons for this.

RichieLawlor

i really liked the original Mankind character, 9 boiler rooms lurker, feuding with Kane, Undertaker), then they ruined Foley and turned him into a sock fondling cartoon character:mad:

Fozzy

RichieLawlor wrote: »

i really liked the original Mankind character, 9 boiler rooms lurker, feuding with Kane, Undertaker), then they ruined Foley and turned him into a sock fondling cartoon character:mad:

Ruined him? If they hadn't done that then he'd be nowhere near as well off as he is today. I think that it made him more than ruined him

Tricity Bendix

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Nathan Jones is a blemish on the Undertaker's WM record. He simply sucked tremendously.

We'll just have to disagree.

He barely got any ring time before quitting, so there isn't much to judge him on, but I saw a lot of potential - mainly because he was a big scary-lookin dude who had some mean martial arts kicks. A year spent in OVW probably woulda done a world of good.

Rjd2

Has anyone mentoined Muhammed Hassan yet? Seriously Randy Orton would kill to get the kind of heat he did:pac:

Handsome Bob

Rjd2 wrote: »

Has anyone mentoined Muhammed Hassan yet? Seriously Randy Orton would kill to get the kind of heat he did:pac:

Ah it was cheap heat. Considering WWE's American demographic audience he was always going to be booed out of the building. But you're right, they kind of wilted to the pressure after 7/7 instead of riding out the storm.

Handsome Bob

b.ie curious wrote: »

We'll just have to disagree.

He barely got any ring time before quitting, so there isn't much to judge him on, but I saw a lot of potential - mainly because he was a big scary-lookin dude who had some mean martial arts kicks. A year spent in OVW probably woulda done a world of good.

Yeah maybe. I can only judge him on what I saw and besides for the odd cool kick I didn't see much worth of note.

Dickmcsavage

Definitely Christian. I don't need to elaborate on this one as people have already mentioned my exact thoughts.

I totally forgot about Sean O'Haire though. I remember seeing those promos and thinking that they were amazing. WWE well and truly F'd that one up. I wonder why they give up on these things so easily?

To a lesser extent, Goldust. Goldust is one of the very few wrestlers that can actually make me laugh out loud. I seen people mention how bad his in-ring skills are in the thread about the under-rated/over-rated TNA folk but if Regal can be used primarily for his promo skills then they should have held on to Goldust and made use of him in some manner. Remember the whole Goldust wanting to join the NWO/ be Bookers friend thing? That was pure gold, pun INTENDED!

Also I see someone mentioned that DDP was awful in WWE but to be honest I REALLY liked that gimmick. Don't ask me why but I just did. I found it highly entertaining! That's not a bad thing......It's a good thing!

Handsome Bob

Dickmcsavage wrote: »

Definitely Christian. I don't need to elaborate on this one as people have already mentioned my exact thoughts.

I totally forgot about Sean O'Haire though. I remember seeing those promos and thinking that they were amazing. WWE well and truly F'd that one up. I wonder why they give up on these things so easily?

To a lesser extent, Goldust. Goldust is one of the very few wrestlers that can actually make me laugh out loud. I seen people mention how bad his in-ring skills are in the thread about the under-rated/over-rated TNA folk but if Regal can be used primarily for his promo skills then they should have held on to Goldust and made use of him in some manner. Remember the whole Goldust wanting to join the NWO/ be Bookers friend thing? That was pure gold, pun INTENDED!

Also I see someone mentioned that DDP was awful in WWE but to be honest I REALLY liked that gimmick. Don't ask me why but I just did. I found it highly entertaining! That's not a bad thing......It's a good thing!

Yo that was me. It's not that DDP is awful, but the gimmick they gave him was humiliating and turned him into a sideshow. It's situations like this that has Sting convinced that it would be a huge mistake to work with Vince.

And yeah goldust was great, a few months back I checked out his promos with Booker T and I forgot how comical he was. The croc hunter is my personal favourite!

Cactus Col

I'd say wwe dropped the ball with d'lo brown. He was (is?) talented in the ring and pretty good at the promos. While he may never had headlined, he certainly could've made a bigger impact then he did.

Also Davari and Eugene (Nick Dinsmore), by all accounts both wrestlers were great workers, also great talkers. But Davari was messed around and not given anything to show case his abilities. And poor olde Nick Dinsmore was landed with the eugene gimmick ... which may have been nice to get him some immediate popularity, but essentially handicapped any further motion he could have in wwe.

gimmick

Not sure is it true, but apparently Nick Dinsmore himself came up with the Eugene gimmick, and WWE gave it the green light. If true, no one to blame but himself for it. On the other hand, it could be argued that if he did not come up with such a gimmick, he would have only had a very short run on the main roster, a la Mark Conway, who as well, by all accounts, is a fantastic wrestler. In fact these two feuded for a while in OVW for their world title if I'm not mistaken.

Regarding Daivari, I agree. First he was saddled with Mohammed Hassan, another character who they destroyed with their horrific racism and fishing for the lowest common denominator. Then after Hassans release he was left in limbo really, never doing anything of note.

I also thought more could have been done with Ernest "The Cat" Miller, but more from an announcer point of view, or even a manager, than a wrestler. he was funny and could use the mic well.

Bubs101

gimmick wrote: »

Not sure is it true, but apparently Nick Dinsmore himself came up with the Eugene gimmick, and WWE gave it the green light. If true, no one to blame but himself for it. On the other hand, it could be argued that if he did not come up with such a gimmick, he would have only had a very short run on the main roster, a la Mark Conway, who as well, by all accounts, is a fantastic wrestler. In fact these two feuded for a while in OVW for their world title if I'm not mistaken.
.

The Eugene character was gold and in a few years I think it'll be remembered quite fondly. There were alot of comedy moments like the musical chairs and the bit with the Rock. Also, he made much more with that gimmick than his charisma would ever allow otherwise.

gimmick wrote: »

I also thought more could have been done with Ernest "The Cat" Miller, but more from an announcer point of view, or even a manager, than a wrestler. he was funny and could use the mic well.

Never saw him in WCW but that spot in the Rumble is my favourite rumble moment ever

Not doing a Mr. Perfect VS Kurt Angle match at WrestleMani X8.

chopperbyrne

Not making Perfect or DiBiase world champion ever.

gimmick

That was Hogans fault. AFAIK, he politicked for neither of them to get it.

Vince135792003

gimmick wrote: »

That was Hogans fault.

From what I can see if I was Vince McMahon I wouldn't have let Hogan drop the belt to either of them. Hogan was the man back then. Yes every feud he had was pretty forumulaic but it worked. It worked for a long time.

I can't think of a time when it was "right" for either of them to get it and would have done more business than Hogan or Savage with the belt.

Don't get me wrong, Mr. Perfect and DiBiase were great. They just peaked at the wrong time as far as getting a run with the belt I think.

rovert

This thread makes me LOL

Vince135792003

rovert wrote: »

This thread makes me LOL

Any specific bits in particular?

rovert

Vince135792003 wrote: »

Any specific bits in particular?

Mr. Perfect as World Champion in 1990, he lit AWA on fire didnt he?

ECW as a hardcore show

Yeah they should bring back Chris Candido, Public Enemy, Mike Awesome, Louie Spicoli, Kronus and Bam Bam Bigelow. Oh yeah they are dead, Hmmm i wonder if the ring style was a contributing factor?

Christian in 2005 is the one that springs to my mind. I'm convinced that if it had been the Attitude era they would have pushed him to the moon instead of pushing him aside because of his size or whatever. I reckon he'd be a main eventer like Edge right about now if they'd just had some f*cking sense.

A comedy upper midcarder at best. If Christian was around fully in the Attitude Era he would be another Owen Hart. You know Vince Russo was the main writer during that era so Christian would used at the same level as he is now if not lower

Booker T was getting over in 2003 and they pissed all over his momentum.

He was not a long term bet due to age and injuries. He was speaking about retirement then.

Owen Hart should have been given a lot of backing following the Montreal Screwjob and a good feud with Shawn Michaels, as there was a ready-made storyline for him there, but they put the breaks on it which was a mistake in my view.

Too small and couldn’t cut a promo. Fundamentally far too cheesy to be taken seriously for the edgey product they were presenting.

Not signing AJ after his trial match is also fairly high up

He turned WWE down. Not to mention he didnt have a thimble of ring psychology then.

Kane v. Kane. The beginning of this feud really intrigued me and I thought it would give some insight and backstory to the Kane character. Sadly, like most things in 2006, the WWE dropped the ball.

Pity NOBODY cared and the guy who played fake Kane/Festus was not ready to be called up.

To a lesser extent, Goldust. Goldust is one of the very few wrestlers that can actually make me laugh out loud. I seen people mention how bad his in-ring skills are in the thread about the under-rated/over-rated TNA folk but if Regal can be used primarily for his promo skills then they should have held on to Goldust and made use of him in some manner. Remember the whole Goldust wanting to join the NWO/ be Bookers friend thing? That was pure gold, pun INTENDED!

Too bad he had drug, emotional, eating and relationship problems.

Charlie

rovert wrote: »

Pity NOBODY cared and the guy who played fake Kane/Festus was not ready to be called up.

No wonder you've only gotten round to using your Boards account now, it must have taken years to go round and see who cared and who didn't. Generalisations often lead to this

Otis Driftwood

charlie mchugh wrote: »

No wonder you've only gotten round to using your Boards account now, it must have taken years to go round and see who cared and who didn't. Generalisations often lead to this

LMFAO

Fozzy

charlie mchugh wrote: »

No wonder you've only gotten round to using your Boards account now, it must have taken years to go round and see who cared and who didn't. Generalisations often lead to this

You can't deny that the fans weren't into it at all when they fought on PPV. Watch it, nobody cared about the match and it got a boring chant too: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=26lJ14mJfec

Handsome Bob

rovert wrote: »

Mr. Perfect as World Champion in 1990, he lit AWA on fire didnt he?

Yeah they should bring back Chris Candido, Public Enemy, Mike Awesome, Louie Spicoli, Kronus and Bam Bam Bigelow. Oh yeah they are dead, Hmmm i wonder if the ring style was a contributing factor?

A comedy upper midcarder at best. If Christian was around fully in the Attitude Era he would be another Owen Hart. You know Vince Russo was the main writer during that era so Christian would used at the same level as he is now if not lower

He was not a long term bet due to age and injuries. He was speaking about retirement then.

Too small and couldn’t cut a promo. Fundamentally far too cheesy to be taken seriously for the edgey product they were presenting.

He turned WWE down. Not to mention he didnt have a thimble of ring psychology then.

Pity NOBODY cared and the guy who played fake Kane/Festus was not ready to be called up.

Too bad he had drug, emotional, eating and relationship problems.

• How can you diss Perfect? He was called Perfect for a reason, 'perfect' execution of a gimmick and 'perfect' matches. I suggest that you watch his matches with Bret Hart, quite possibly the finest matches during that time period. Not just that but also he could bring the best out in everyone. Bret Hart was notoriously awkward doing promo's but maybe did his finest work in front of the camera with Perfect and he credited Perfect for that. Perfect had all the tools, he was as someone already said to be unlucky to be around amidst Hogan's run.
• Who knows what Christian would have become had he not been reduced to the comedy act and being referred to as the CLB. What Edge is doing on SD in my opinion is something that Christian would be capable of doing too. WWE had a number of superstars that they had to make a decision on at the time in terms of getting a push to the ME. Christian just lost out an simply tried his craft elsewhere.
• Booker T was red hot in 2003 and furthermore, I think that it was anyone's game and they went with the HHH win at the 11th hour. How else do you explain HHH 'implying' racism towards Booker if he wasn't going to get retribution for it? To this day I still don't understand why WWE would play the racism card and let HHH's 'racism' triumph at WM. Booker was buried by that loss for a long time because of it.
• It's on record somewhere that Owen was due a title run so obviously he had people who believed in him.
• The Kane vs. Kane angle had limitless possibilities and surely must have been the most poorly executed storyline since....well........the 'racist' HHH triumphing over Booker in 2003.

Charlie

Fozzy wrote: »

You can't deny that the fans weren't into it at all when they fought on PPV. Watch it, nobody cared about the match and it got a boring chant too: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=26lJ14mJfec

But that illustrates, to me anyway, how WWE dropped the ball on it. It's premise was very interesting and I think there was a good story to be told looking more into the Kane character and his past. The WWE just handled it so badly, blew hot and cold with it, and got a poor wrestler to play the part, that the fans couldn't get into it.

My argument is that their poor handling and build ultimately lead to it's failure, not that it was a story that couldn't go places, and thus they dropped the ball with it.

Handsome Bob

charlie mchugh wrote: »

But that illustrates, to me anyway, how WWE dropped the ball on it. It's premise was very interesting and I think there was a good story to be told looking more into the Kane character and his past. The WWE just handled it so badly, blew hot and cold with it, and got a poor wrestler to play the part, that the fans couldn't get into it.

My argument is that their poor handling and build ultimately lead to it's failure, not that it was a story that couldn't go places, and thus they dropped the ball with it.

Spot on. As I said it must have been one of the most poorly executed storylines in recent memory. It had limitless possibilities.