TEFL/CELTA/CELT answers...

kateling

Hi all,

I'm thinking about doing either the CELT or CELTA course early this summer (the latter if I can afford it - from what I gather here, it seems to be the best option) in order to teach abroad later on in the summer, most likely in Germany.

What I want to know is how much time I need to dedicate to preparation before the course starts - I have a full-time job until mid-April and would ideally like to get the course done as soon as possible after that so that I could travel fairly early on in the summer, for example as soon as June. There were a few references to pre-course preparation, tasks etc in this thread and I'd just like to know if I finished my job, for example, in mid-April and then started the course at the end of April or start of May, would that be enough time to get myself ready? Also, how early do interviews tend to be conducted?

Hope someone can help me with this, the thread has been very informative so far!

Patricia_

Hi

You don't need any preparation, in fairness. You will learn everything on the course. The only concern is: it may take quite a while before you will receive your certificate. I finished my CELT at the end of April, graduated in May (mine course was a one year part-time CELT course) and got my cert in post in September. ACELS take their time ;-)

Interviews for Summer TEFL jobs in Ireland take place between April and late June. Demand for summer teachers is huge. As for jobs abroad it all depends on the school. Hopes it helps.

P.

Patricia_

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

I'm curious about this also, if anyone's got any ideas.

A bit late: but it is 100% correct. No one can teach English in Ireland without a degree.

See Ye

Patricia's right, the course is there to give you the tools you need. If you are accepted onto a course someone somewhere thinks you have the makings of an EFL teacher.

OTOH you may feel more confident yourself going into this if you are up to speed on some of the grammatical terms so you don't feel panicked when folk start talking about participles and auxiliaries etc.

Perhaps invest in a grammar book (second hand) like this and a methodology book by Harmer that you could dip into as the course approaches ?

ETA : schools etc. are well aware of the delay between the end of the course and certificates arriving, just as they are aware that the final grade recommended by the course tutors remains unchanged in well over 90% of cases so your end of course report is usually enough to get you your first job (altho' they may put in a clause about continued employment relying on the pass grade being confirmed).

lecker Hendl

Having put some thought into changing career, I am considering taking up either the CELT or CELTA. There is some great information in this thread, but on a side note, is it actually possible to create a career out of it?

I imagine starting off salary will be low and will also vary depending on whether you are teaching children or business adults. Does anyone have a rough guideline of what can be earned? Personally, I wouldn't be going further than mainland Europe.

MrMiyagi

Hello,

I have a full time job and a CELT qualification.

I wouldn't mind doing a bit of English teaching on the side.

Any way of getting a few hours teaching in the evenings in the Cork city region?

I have one months teaching experience from a summer school in England.

Regards,
Mr. Miyagi.

See Ye

Well, it depends what you mean by "career" I'm not going to post my salary here but suffice to say that my husband, a team manager in a telecoms company makes more than twice as much as me. I have the next qualification up from the CELTA, coming up for 18 years' experience, do specialist business courses as well as actually training people on the CELTA courses. That said there isn't that much difference between my salary and that of newly qualified teachers. You will never be rich, you will never make a bunch of savings but you can live an ok life. A lot of people on a career break enjoy the luxury of money coming on from renting out their home ... don't know if this is an option for you ?

The money you make depends on local tax laws, supply and demand (are you heading somewhere popular with twenty-somethings willing to continue a student lifestyle ?), the integrity of the school you work for, if you work as an independent consultant or can get into the higher education system. Do research, go to Dave's ESL café and see what folk are saying about different places.

OTOH I've worked in about ten different countries, taught kids, adults, exam preparation classes, business skills seminars, conversation classes, I do oral exams for Cambridge, have worked in materials development ... I would call that a career ;-)

ayumi

I would like to do a tefl course,but I have some questions regarding it.
Im currently studying a level 6 in supervision in childcare.I hope to teach English in Africa.
I have came across an online course for 140 hours.I was wondering if anyone has any advice on doing this course and anyone that has done the course.
I just want more information on it.

See Ye

Is the course entirely online or is there observed classroom time too ?
Ask yourself this would you want to learn to drive without ever getting in a car ? Would you be happy with an awarding body who gave you a licence on the strength of your knowledge rather than your driving skills ?

I'm aware I come across as preachy, apologies for that, but if the course has no element where you get objective feedback on your performance in front of a class I would think again.

queensinead

A friend has been caled to interview for the CELTA one-month course in International House in Dublin. She is very worried about the interview because it seems to be very difficult to get on the course, as many unemployed professionals (who get their fees paid because they are unemployed) are applying to do TEFL nowadays.

Has anyone done this interview and can they remember what the questions tended to be like?

Sorry if this has been asked before....

See Ye

queensinead wrote: »

A friend has been caled to interview for the CELTA one-month course in International House in Dublin. She is very worried about the interview because it seems to be very difficult to get on the course, as many unemployed professionals (who get their fees paid because they are unemployed) are applying to do TEFL nowadays.

Has anyone done this interview and can they remember what the questions tended to be like?

Sorry if this has been asked before....

I'm sure some of the folk here have done the course at IH Dublin and can answer but in the meantime : Was there a pre-interview task (part of the application) ? CELTA interviews are generally based on this ie going over your answers and seeing how much further you can go, see what your views on teaching are etc.

eg how would you explain the difference between "win" & "beat"; why don't we say "He's been in Cork yesterday." etc.

You're not expected to know everything but show potential, the tutors should actually guide you through.

queensinead

See Ye wrote: »

I'm sure some of the folk here have done the course at IH Dublin and can answer but in the meantime : Was there a pre-interview task (part of the application) ? CELTA interviews are generally based on this ie going over your answers and seeing how much further you can go, see what your views on teaching are etc.

eg how would you explain the difference between "win" & "beat"; why don't we say "He's been in Cork yesterday." etc.

You're not expected to know everything but show potential, the tutors should actually guide you through.

Thank you, See Ye, for your helpful and prompt reply. My friend has an Honours degree in English, and has been boning up on the CELTA textbooks, I think, but she finds it hard going, and does not feel confident answering English detailed grammar questions off the cuff.

She is also worried that after shelling out a lot of money (I think her course is very expensive) she could fail the course despite her best efforts. Do many people fail?

But she really wants to do it, and I've told her to go for it. She really got her hopes up when they called her for interview

See Ye

queensinead wrote: »

See Ye wrote: »

I'm sure some of the folk here have done the course at IH Dublin and can answer but in the meantime : Was there a pre-interview task (part of the application) ? CELTA interviews are generally based on this ie going over your answers and seeing how much further you can go, see what your views on teaching are etc.

eg how would you explain the difference between "win" & "beat"; why don't we say "He's been in Cork yesterday." etc.

You're not expected to know everything but show potential, the tutors should actually guide you through.

Thank you, See Ye, for your helpful and prompt reply. My friend has an Honours degree in English, and has been boning up on the CELTA textbooks, I think, but she finds it hard going, and does not feel confident answering English detailed grammar questions off the cuff.

She is also worried that after shelling out a lot of money (I think her course is very expensive) she could fail the course despite her best efforts. Do many people fail?

But she really wants to do it, and I've told her to go for it. She really got her hopes up when they called her for interview

She doesn't have to be 100% right, all she needs to do is show potential. Get her to the interview and she can discuss with the tutor what they think.
As the previous poster said centres don't take candidates they expect to fail. We don't like failing - it's a failure on our part too.

sedric

Thanks for your clear and sound advice.

Orizio

Anyone have any experience of the CELTA course offered by the language center in UCC? And is 1600 or so overpriced?

queensinead

A friend has just been told they failed the Celta TEFL course despite nights of preparation and doing their best.

Very upset after spending all that money to end up with nothing. You would think there would be some way to repeat or recoup the fees.

yosser hughes

queensinead wrote: »

A friend has just been told they failed the Celta TEFL course despite nights of preparation and doing their best.

Very upset after spending all that money to end up with nothing. You would think there would be some way to repeat or recoup the fees.

Ouch! I don't think people realise that it can be quite hard especially if you do the intensive course. A person on my course failed it as well.

queensinead

yosser hughes wrote: »

Ouch! I don't think people realise that it can be quite hard especially if you do the intensive course. A person on my course failed it as well.

There is a pretty intensive interview to get accepted, and teaching practice is assessed almost from day one.

Surely if somebody is going to be such a disaster that they are fail level, this should be obvious on first teaching practice and they could be told "Look, this is not for you, I can't see you making the grade"

And their deposit at least could be refunded to them.

But for a person to put themselves in financial hock to the tune of 1,700 Euro, and to complete and hand in all their assignments, to spend nights preparing classes, and to do their level best, not to mention booking to go abroad and depending on this CELTA cert which they have paid so highly for..

Well, it is very disappointing.

My friend is cleaned out financially, and has taken an awful blow to his confidence. He thought he was improving and was going to pass. He has a Masters in English, not that that means much, but he is quite good at languages.

So there go all his dreams for next year.

Beware folks. Just because you spend 1,700 Euro, and get accepted on the course does not mean that you will get a CELTA cert

See Ye

queensinead wrote: »

A friend has just been told they failed the Celta TEFL course despite nights of preparation and doing their best.
Very upset after spending all that money to end up with nothing. You would think there would be some way to repeat or recoup the fees.(bolding mine)

First let me say that I deeply empathise with your friend, completing a CELTA course is draining at best and to be unsuccesful is pretty devastating.

The following applies if your friend did a Cambridge CELTA course, if this final grade came as a shock then something went wrong somewhere.

At interview it should be made clear that this is a pass fail course and any weak candidates should be given guidance with regard to what their weak areas are and how to improve.

Once the course is underway
- candidates are given written and verbal feedback on every lesson they teach; more than 2 non-standard lessons should set off some alarm bells.
- candidates are given written feedback on their written assignments; more than one failed written assigmnet is an automatic fail however candidates are allowed to submit each assignment twice with clear guidelines on how to improve their second submission.

In addition the following is recorded in the pale blue Cambridge booklet/work record :
- Feedback at the end of week 1, this can just be written but is often accompanied by a quick tutorial, outlining general prgress and identifying action points for the next stage of the course.

- Mid-course tutorial. THe candidate is required to grade their own performance on the different assessment criteria and given the opportunity tio record any concerns regarding the written assignments or any other issues (this is usually set as "homework"), grade their overall performance and identify action point for the next stage of the course. Then, in the tutorial everything is discussed and a tutor completes the same sections with the addition of identifying strengths. At the end of this tutoral every candidate knows if they are to standard or not "for this stage of the course". (In my experience the shortest mid-course tutroial was just over 20minutes with some taking as long as an hour and 30-40mins as an average.)

If the candidate was graded "not to standard" in the Mid-course tutorial or tutors are worried about a lack of progress then there is a
- Third tutorial - at the end of week three or Monday of week 4. A tutor sits down with the candidate going over and grading each of the assessment criteria, commenting on progress and outlining what the candidate needs to do in order to pass the course. Typically this will be three or four bullet points like "Show you can deal effectively with errors in the classroom.", "Teach a successful language focus lesson" "Pass two of the remaining written assignments" etc.
If a candidate is worried about their progress they can request a third tutorial which then follow the format above.

If your friend feels let down by the course tutors with regard to the above then they can follow the Cambridge Complaints procedure. (This is given in the booklet I mentioned and candidates do sign to say they have read it but since the booklet stays with the centre that's not much help, a quick search should tell your friend what to do.) Essentially the candidate's portfolio is sent off to Cambridge (all the lesson plans, written assignments feedback & pale blue booklet) and reviewed by an independent board - however your friend should know that final grades have already been approved by the assesor (an Cambridge assessor visits every course).

Scant solace I suspect but having at least done the course, your friend is "Cambridge Trained" (rather than Cambridge Qualified) and will still be ahead of folk who haven't done the Cambridge course when looking for work.

See Ye

I was composing my previous reply and things have moved on but I'd like to address the following :

queensinead wrote: »

Surely if somebody is going to be such a disaster that they are fail level, this should be obvious on first teaching practice and they could be told "Look, this is not for you, I can't see you making the grade" And their deposit at least could be refunded to them.

That's just not workable I'm afraid - on a human level you'd be telling someone they have no potential to improve at all ! The whole course is about progress, each lesson is graded "for this stage of the course", some people take longer to just be able to stand up in front of a class than others but they may be miles ahead in terms of their ability to analyse language. I've seen people struggle for the first two weeks then suddenly something clicks and they leave with more than a simple pass grade, I've seen others start very strong indeed but make minimal progress and just scrape a pass.

Then of course that just doesn't make financial sense for the centres - they need a certain number of participants for the course to be viable and they may have had to turn people down because a course is full ..

Your "Look, this is not for you, I can't see you making the grade" should be used at interview, that's the whole purpose of the interview after all - but there is no guarantee people will really hear it, or accept it.

queensinead wrote: »

Beware folks. Just because you spend 1,700 Euro, and get accepted on the course does not mean that you will get a CELTA cert

I don't know any centre which would make this claim, again this is what everyone should be told at interview.

I've experienced how people can react to being unsuccessful really I have but again, please let your friend know that all this means in that he didn't meet the required standard in the time available. He still has potential to become a good teacher, find teaching work, as a native speaker who has followed a CELTA course I'd employ him over someone with no training and some places will employ him over a CELTA qualified non-native speaker. He needs to make sure he gets an attendance certificate "This is to certify that Mr X attended a Cambridge CELTA course at .... from ... to ...." and see if his tutors will give him some sort of report or profile.

queensinead

See Ye wrote: »

First let me say that I deeply empathise with your friend, completing a CELTA course is draining at best and to be unsuccesful is pretty devastating.

The following applies if your friend did a Cambridge CELTA course, if this final grade came as a shock then something went wrong somewhere.

At interview it should be made clear that this is a pass fail course and any weak candidates should be given guidance with regard to what their weak areas are and how to improve.

Once the course is underway
- candidates are given written and verbal feedback on every lesson they teach; more than 2 non-standard lessons should set off some alarm bells.
- candidates are given written feedback on their written assignments; more than one failed written assigmnet is an automatic fail however candidates are allowed to submit each assignment twice with clear guidelines on how to improve their second submission.

In addition the following is recorded in the pale blue Cambridge booklet/work record :
- Feedback at the end of week 1, this can just be written but is often accompanied by a quick tutorial, outlining general prgress and identifying action points for the next stage of the course.

- Mid-course tutorial. THe candidate is required to grade their own performance on the different assessment criteria and given the opportunity tio record any concerns regarding the written assignments or any other issues (this is usually set as "homework"), grade their overall performance and identify action point for the next stage of the course. Then, in the tutorial everything is discussed and a tutor completes the same sections with the addition of identifying strengths. At the end of this tutoral every candidate knows if they are to standard or not "for this stage of the course". (In my experience the shortest mid-course tutroial was just over 20minutes with some taking as long as an hour and 30-40mins as an average.)

If the candidate was graded "not to standard" in the Mid-course tutorial or tutors are worried about a lack of progress then there is a
- Third tutorial - at the end of week three or Monday of week 4. A tutor sits down with the candidate going over and grading each of the assessment criteria, commenting on progress and outlining what the candidate needs to do in order to pass the course. Typically this will be three or four bullet points like "Show you can deal effectively with errors in the classroom.", "Teach a successful language focus lesson" "Pass two of the remaining written assignments" etc.
If a candidate is worried about their progress they can request a third tutorial which then follow the format above.

If your friend feels let down by the course tutors with regard to the above then they can follow the Cambridge Complaints procedure. (This is given in the booklet I mentioned and candidates do sign to say they have read it but since the booklet stays with the centre that's not much help, a quick search should tell your friend what to do.) Essentially the candidate's portfolio is sent off to Cambridge (all the lesson plans, written assignments feedback & pale blue booklet) and reviewed by an independent board - however your friend should know that final grades have already been approved by the assesor (an Cambridge assessor visits every course).

Scant solace I suspect but having at least done the course, your friend is "Cambridge Trained" (rather than Cambridge Qualified) and will still be ahead of folk who haven't done the Cambridge course when looking for work.

Thank you for that clear information, See Ye. You sound like a very professional tutor.

My friend is too devastated to track back exactly. Perhaps he was just not hearing how bad things were.

He says he failed two TPs very early on in the course, but then was told he was improving, so this gave him confidence. He went over his weak points with his tutor and discussed them.
His last TP went badly as he became nervous.

But I think he just could not believe that after putting such work in, he was a goner.
He has never failed anything in his life. And the people who failed in College used to be the dossers or those who made no effort or skipped lectures. So this was a shock.

He bitterly regrets spending all that money now, because no matter what way you slice it, whatever cert or paper they give him, it is telling a future employer he failed a TEFL course, so in this tough market it's pretty useless.

There was an external examiner sitting in at his last (failed) TP. Would that have made a difference I wonder?

See Ye

You're welcome :-)
I think one of the things that is really hard to grasp about the CELTA is that, despite the written assignments, it's not an academic course and sometimes, however hard you try, some people can't apply knowledge to practice - this is especially hard to deal with if you're someone who hasn't struggled at school, uni etc.

While we look at progress & consistency when the final TP is not to standard then it's pretty hard to say that someone is to standard at the end of the course. However it's not always a nail in the coffin - tutors can, and do, argue the case of someone they believe to have shown they are consistently to standard when it comes to awarding final grades. In my experience assessors rarely argue against tutors' opinions but ask questions which help crystalize their thoughts.

To comment further I'd have to know more details about the length of that last TP (ie what proportion of his 6 observed teaching hours were to standard) and focus (was it the same issue as the other 2 problem TPs ?) and what the issues were deemed to be.

If he has the impression that it all came down to that last TP, and feels that he was not aware he was in danger of failing the course then perhaps he should follow up on things and ask to have his portfolio sent off for a second opinion.

Where was he looking to work ? If I can I'll see if I can think of any leads for him.

queensinead

See Ye wrote: »

You're welcome :-)
I think one of the things that is really hard to grasp about the CELTA is that, despite the written assignments, it's not an academic course and sometimes, however hard you try, some people can't apply knowledge to practice - this is especially hard to deal with if you're someone who hasn't struggled at school, uni etc.

While we look at progress & consistency when the final TP is not to standard then it's pretty hard to say that someone is to standard at the end of the course. However it's not always a nail in the coffin - tutors can, and do, argue the case of someone they believe to have shown they are consistently to standard when it comes to awarding final grades. In my experience assessors rarely argue against tutors' opinions but ask questions which help crystalize their thoughts.

To comment further I'd have to know more details about the length of that last TP (ie what proportion of his 6 observed teaching hours were to standard) and focus (was it the same issue as the other 2 problem TPs ?) and what the issues were deemed to be.

If he has the impression that it all came down to that last TP, and feels that he was not aware he was in danger of failing the course then perhaps he should follow up on things and ask to have his portfolio sent off for a second opinion.

Where was he looking to work ? If I can I'll see if I can think of any leads for him.

Thanks, See Ye. I guess it's like the Driving Test. You have to be able to walk the walk, not just do the theory.

His last (failed) TP was an hour long. I think he left out some technical thing you're supposed to do, questioning concepts or some acronym, I did not understand. He forgot to include it. Then the class got a bit chatty. But overall he thought they got the message perfectly
He always thought his TPs went well until he got feedback

He was hoping to work initially in Dublin in a Summer School or such. But he was hoping his CELTA cert would swing it for him there.
Then he was going to go abroad. He will not go abroad without CELTA Cert, and can't afford to now anyway after paying for the course.
. He has found the job market in every field he is qualified in to be cut throat competitive, and he has no illusions.
He knows he needs an edge
He did a Masters rather than just a Degree.

Then he saved up for a year and used all his money for the Celta course. I think that is the final straw, the fact that the money is gone with nothing to show for it.

I wonder about the wisdom of this intensive 4 week course. Some people just cannot improve fast enough over that short time span. In the normal PDGE you have a year to improve your skills, and to mature, and to come to grips with the course and with the reality of teaching.

Maybe they might consider extending the course

In these hard-pressed times it just seems an awful lot of money to part with in good faith and to end up with nothing

See Ye

queensinead wrote: »

His last (failed) TP was an hour long. I think he left out some technical thing you're supposed to do, questioning concepts or some acronym, I did not understand. He forgot to include it. Then the class got a bit chatty. But overall he thought they got the message perfectly

Well that's clearer, sadly the bit he forgot is considered one of the key elements.

queensinead wrote: »

Maybe they might consider extending the course.

For those considering the course and worried about this it is possible to do the course extensively & online however far fewer centres offer this option (there's nowhere in France for example).

actua11

I'm interested in going down the language teaching route, but find myself getting confused with the many different courses and acronyms that are being mentioned.

As the CELTA is accredited by the university of Cambridge, what, if any relation do the 'TELF Cambridge' courses I've seen offered have to Cambridge in terms of accreditation?

Also, although doing a course in person is preferable to an online course, where do blended courses lie in the spectrum? I've read conflicting reports that a 120 hour blended course may a) be not looked upon favorably as it lacks the necessary teaching experience due to the focus on the online element and thus restricts job opportunities, or b) result in the same certificate as the traditional course but done at a cost and schedule to suit those unable to do the full course. Which should I believe?

DeeMitch

Anyone know if the Celta course at International House Dublin is funded - fully or partly - by the Department of Social Welfare? If not, why not? Post-course job prospects appear to be more promising than those offered by the vast majority of rubblish FAS courses.

I find the fact that they failed someone who put in the effort very off-putting. Would have expected them to allow him to re-sit the tests until he was up to scratch. It's a lot of money to gamble.

simonsez

DeeMitch wrote: »

Anyone know if the Celta course at International House Dublin is funded - fully or partly - by the Department of Social Welfare? If not, why not? Post-course job prospects appear to be more promising than those offered by the vast majority of rubblish FAS courses.

This is a question that is not really being answered. If you are an Arts graduate you have three options from what I can see.

1 Do a post-grad in a technical subjects like ICT or Pharma-science.
2 Fas fetec course which is of no value to an Arts graduate student.
3 Do an enterprise course when there are no funds available unless you have a high technology background for start up.

It baffles me considering that there are thousands of native English speaking graduates and millions wanting to learn english......

Now I'm sure there is a simple math equation there however not being a technical graduate I wont be able to work it out.

1000's of native English speaking third level level 8 graduates and millions of students wanting to learn English from Native English speaking graduates...........

SS:)

Are there many jobs teqxhing English in Ireland though?

simonsez

Deleted User wrote: »

Are there many jobs teqxhing English in Ireland though?

lol not if ya cant spell teaching...........haha:)

ss

DeeMitch

As to whether there are many jobs teaching English in Ireland, I imagine they are limited, probably seasonal, summer schools etc.

BUT... there are lots of jobs teaching English abroad so if it's a choice between staying here doing nothing or going to work abroad, you'd think it's a no-brainer. Would they rather pay the course fee (the equivalent of two months' dole) or pay social welfare for potentially much longer?

The latter it turns out. They don't fund it. They'll fund a van driving course though which takes 3 months but consists of only 20 hours actual driving (in a car not a van). Work that one out. FAS should be scrapped.