Chinese people's protest

bill_ashmount

RedPlanet wrote: »

Tibet is NOT a country, period.
It is not a country because it is:
- not a member of the UN
- not among "United Nations General Assembly observers"
- not among "International organizations", or "non-governmental organizations" whom have access to the UN General Assembly.
- not listed in the "Montevideo Convention"

Ireland for example cannot enter a treaty with Tibet, nor with the Dalai Lama group, as they are not part of the UN.

Since when did the UN decide who can and can't be a country?

RedPlanet

Whom does then?
Irish public opinion?

CPT. SURF

Not trying to just stir the pot here but I heard on the radio (NPR) this morning that the Chinese government assasinated more "criminals" last year than all other nations.

Also the number of offences in China that carry the death sentance in China is 60:eek:

Heard it all on NPR, a more than credible source btw

CerebralCortex

RedPlanet wrote: »

Countries are not about feelings, they are about International Treaties.
From wikiepdia:
How do the indigenous people in the rainforest of Brazil feel about their lot in life? Seeing their habitat destroyed?
Do those people make countries too?
You might personally believe that Tibet should be a country, but that doesn't make it so.
Personally i don't believe that the Tibetan people can be a soverign state because nobody would let them have at it, either the Russians or India or USA would make it their own playground.
The Tibetan people are better protected by China.

Think about how you would say that to Padraig Pearse and the boys before the 1916 rising. I can just imagine it now:

Connolly: Paddy RedPlanet reckons we have no right to express the wish for Ireland to be ruled by its people with a bloody rebellion because theres no "International Treaties" recognising Ireland.
Pearse: Ah heck! I was so looking forward to laying down my life for Ireland, now all I have is a pain in my hand from writing the proclaimation of independence.

CerebralCortex

RedPlanet wrote: »

Whom does then?
Irish public opinion?

The people who live in the said country. If tomorrow the rest of the world decided China wasn't a country you're telling me honestly you'd accept it as fact because the UN said so? Come on now RedPlanet I don't think so. Whats your agenda? What are you afraid of?

RedPlanet

CerebralCortex, i've an earlier post in which i stated how countries get formed.
They get formed sometimes by revolt, sometimes by peaceful negotiation. If the Tibetan people rise up in revolt and win their independence then grand, but guess what? China has the right to crush that revolt. Sometimes that's just what happens.
It is rather optimistic for the Dalai Lama to go around hat-in-hand and beg all the other world powers to give him a country, specifically a quarter of Chinese territory.
Whether you believe that Tibet was a country before the Chinese Communists took over or not, is moot as Tibet as a country has no basis in International law.
For the west today, to go around propping up the Dalai Lama group and pretending they are some sort of soveriegn government is just sad, a bit like the USA going around pretending the ol' Shah of Iran was the "legitimate" government of Iran, get over it.
In the interests of PEACE, the west should withdraw it's support of the Dalai Lama group and stop using them to agitate China which does little more than politically help the Chinese Communist party and Chinese nationalism within China, and maintain the political disenfranchisement of many Tibetans inside India.

CerebralCortex

RedPlanet wrote: »

CerebralCortex, i've an earlier post in which i stated how countries get formed.
They get formed sometimes by revolt, sometimes by peaceful negotiation. If the Tibetan people rise up in revolt and win their independence then grand, but guess what? China has the right to crush that revolt. Sometimes that's just what happens.....

I suppose I'm really referring to oppressed people who want sovereignty in general not just Tibet(I don't even know if they want sovereignty or if thats the issue?) Are Tibet being given the opportunity to be heard by the Chinese or to engage in peaceful negotiation? Why would they want to revolt if they hadn't serious problems with the government?

RedPlanet wrote: »

Sometimes that's just what happens.....

....when dictatorships are involved.

GuanYin

Pridefighter and folks. Apologies for my earlier post. Of course PF was correct, under Mao China the death toll was huge, I'm not quite sure where my head was last night.

PF, I apologise for that point, however, my others were valid.

RedPlanet

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Are Tibet being given the opportunity to be heard by the Chinese or to engage in peaceful negotiation? Why would they want to revolt if they hadn't serious problems with the government?

I don't know, but i think that's what the CIA funded Dalai Lama would have us believe, i wonder if there could be an agenda there?

CerebralCortex wrote: »

....when dictatorships are involved.

Democracies too, or are you omitting how the "West was won" in America and the plight of the indigenous people there. Not to mention the indigenous peoples of Australia, Canada, New Zealand...

CerebralCortex

RedPlanet wrote: »

.....Democracies too, or are you omitting how the "West was won" in America and the plight of the indigenous people there. Not to mention the indigenous peoples of Australia, Canada, New Zealand...

Whats your point? Are you justifying China's actions good or bad on something the US did, which was wrong and undemocratic on so many levels, at least a 100 years ago? In a democracy I can vote I can run for election the people can change governments. In the dictatorship in China masquerading as communism none of these things can be done you're just ruled by corruption, the people of China deserve better!

RedPlanet

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Whats your point? Are you justifying China's actions good or bad on something the US did, which was wrong and undemocratic on so many levels, at least a 100 years ago? In a democracy I can vote I can run for election the people can change governments. In the dictatorship in China masquerading as communism none of these things can be done you're just ruled by corruption, the people of China deserve better!

That's your point?
Don't you think that if the Chinese people no longer consented to be governed by the communist party they couldn't do anything about it?
You should stop exporting your doctrines to other countries and let them formulate their own path.

cahalfinbarr

Chinese must justify everything from simple spelling/grammer mistakes to assertions they make about their own country.
Irish people can say what they wish, without facts, figures or knowledge.
Chinese must accept the opinions and prejudices of their Irish protaganists.
Irish people know more about China and the Chinese government than the Chinese.
Chinese people have no right to criticise other counties.
Irish people have a God given right to tell the Chinese how they should be governed.
We objected to our country being partioned and a protestant state for a protestant people being formed, but the Chinese people should cut off Tibet and let it be ruled by a dictatorship of holy monks.

Pro C

It is getting ridiculous to keep going like this, you want to talk about China, I give you China and every single point below relates to China, so here is my summary,

Our ambassador’s job here is to form good relationship with Irish people, negotiating trade, encourage understanding of differences, exchanging cultural diversities, not tolerating impolite gestures. In fact, you did not see his work does not mean he did not do. It was well covered in our newspaper here, as it has interest in the mutual benefits and well-being between the people of the two nations. We have come with friendly mindset and in China we are genuinely welcoming foreign people with love, not like so many Irish only show it on the face. It has to be said that there are vast amount of Irish people with open mind-set, and we do respect those people, very much.

We do have human rights issues; nobody denied that, our government did not deny that. But so does the Americans and British with their prisoners of war, they have problems as well. I am not switching the focus; I am just comparing the like with like. We are improving, doing a better job than years ago. So, why do the West focus your comments on China all the time?

We do have censorship in China, but by and large we are happy where we are, the country does not appreciate your way of freedom, thanks very much. By the way, your media has control of what they want you to know as well, for instance, so many Westerners saw the photo that a student standing right in front of the Chinese Army tank on 6.4 and making assumptions that it crashed over him or fired at him, but the guy simply left after climbing up the tank and having a look, and how many of you knows that. The BBC simply stopped the tape right at where it gives you a scene that you can imagine what the worst scenario might be, why did they do that and isn’t it a form of censorship?

About Tibet, very clear, it was and is always part of China, 99% of Irish have never been there themselves, which is nearly 10,000 miles away from Ireland. How on earth do you think you know everything right through the LCD, maybe through your biased Western media, like the one above? If your media is always right, why did the Express Newspaper compensate Gerry McCann? If the Western government is always right, why there is no Weapon of Mass Destruction found in Iraq?

I am a patriot, in fact majority of Chinese are patriots even they may not be happy with the corruption of the government, but so is Bertie, corruption is everywhere; your government is not doing much better than ours at the end of the day. A slip of the tongue of a minister by calling Tibet is a country is totally unacceptable. Let alone, Tibet never wanted freedom; the Dalai Lama never wanted freedom of control but of religion. They wanted autonomy and they had been a TAR for year and they can be TAR as long as they wanted, which is consistent with the Chinese government policy towards the 7 SARs in China. If you are trying to divide our country, it is a very very serious insult, (if you didn’t know so just to let you know) just as much insult you will get from saying the land we are now standing on is part of the Great Britain, the only way you left us to defend your unfair attack and accusation is fire with fire. You guys may think this is aggressive, but the nature of the aggressiveness comes with a reason.

China never point its fingers at any other country before it resolves its own problems, whereas foreign countries, especially the West, have long established history of suppressing other countries freedom of dealing their internal affairs in their own way, and the West are always nosy about others’ issues before having their own issues sort it our first, who has more sensible mentality here? Yeah, we may be suppressing some minority people, but you are suppressing another country, which is crazier?

To give you a perfect example, you have your point by saying your way of solving problem by open dialogue, which I personally. But what about the West boycott the Olympic if China doesn’t buy your suggestion, isn’t it a suppressing? Is that what you do when your point is not taken? Isn’t it another slap on your own face?

Having said that, if a war is required regarding on Tibet or Tiawan, the integrity of motherland has the highest priority, that’s called self-esteem. China will do it at all cost, the US has already financed two and half wars, they simply can’t afford this one and their people can’t see American people die in a much much larger scale, and by the way, Shannon is not needed this time, too far, too small. Also, Russia is our very good buddy, just in case you don’t know.

Let’s have some about economics, shall we? It is not our cheap labour to be blamed for your loss of jobs and employments such as in Iralco, it is your choice, it is the sheer greedy of the West, the capitalism’s hanger for profits and how your economic theory works - your demand. If the Irish companies want survive and compete successfully in the global market in manufacturing or service sector, they had better known that other countries are not as laid back as the Irish, well maybe not to include the French. Your favourable tax regime will not last forever, your EU mates won’t allow that happening, and when it is done, lots of jobs will go, either head North or the far East and once it is gone, it is gone, unless other unique value added industries can be created and developed in these short phase of time, you are heading into a disasters situation, plus your education and the depth of your R&D is not the greatest of the world, few institutes are known to the globe, well apart from Trinity – to be fair – it can’t be seen why the housing price will go up when the economy is going down. I am not targeting the Irish people in particular but simply pointing out the problem, take it or not, it is your choice. And, how about that? If we were not offended in the first place, this would not be said.

Back to politics, there is an old Chinese saying is that “frog at the bottom of the well”, it is perfect to define Irish position on the whole issue. You are so lazy to go out there and find the truth yourselves, and the sky you can see from the bottom of the well, will be always the same size as the well.

If you think I am all alone sharing this view, then you are wrong.

cahalfinbarr

Thirdfox wrote: »

It's probably going to be in paper format - but they may put it up on www.therecord.ie (Trinity's local newspaper). (Might have to wait some time though).

I will not try to talk about the whole issue of Tibet (that would take a whole supplement, if not a book) but I'll try to present what many Chinese people feel about the situation (something that I had felt was lacking in the media here). An 800 word limit won't give you much chance to say everything that needs to be said but hopefully I can give a balanced Chinese view.

good for you, not that anyone will pay any attention, Who said the Chinese have any rights to their own opinions anyway

LCI

Glad to see your discussion. Some questions to those Chinese students however:

If 1000 Japanese people were waving their flags on the Tian AnMen square,

1 Would you allow them to do so?
2 Would your country’s media do the same thing as you asked here?

If answers to the above are “No”. Then why?

Pro C

LCI wrote: »

Glad to see your discussion. Some questions to those Chinese students however:

If 1000 Japanese people were waving their flags on the Tian AnMen square,

1 Would you allow them to do so?
2 Would your country’s media do the same thing as you asked here?

If answers to the above are “No”. Then why?

Nop, causes wave Japanese flag in China is going for a suiside mission.:D

Another one clueless about what we did on Saturday,

But if you wave Irish flags in Tian Anmen Square, and saying "Welcome to Dublin, Welcome to Ireland", like exactly what we did on Saturday, you are loved by the Chinese!

Chris_Heilong

Just have to say something to Jenny first as she doesn’t seem to be expressing herself very well. Jenny 你应该别说了.我肯定你是恨年轻的人.你说的时候每个人不要听.现在你英文还好.很多爱尔兰人知道中国好.你说不好意思.
The other Chinese here now how to talk to Irish so let them talk and stop embarrassing China.
I saw the newspaper, As I expected, instead of showing a nice protest show the large numbers that turned up on the day or very much like the shots posted on this forum but instead opted for an aggressive locked off shot showing very little about what happened on the day so its easy to see why the Chinese feel misrepresented by western media, using terms like crackdown instead of restoring order in Tibet and other such politically confusing comments, I must say many Americans still hold negative views of Communism left over from the cold war days(commies are the enemy and stuff like that) and cant believe that while their economy is in decline a Communist country is on the rise setting a government model for other developing countries like those in Africa. I remember view Chinese songs one you tube last year and almost all the comments where about how bad China was and all had one thing in common, they were all from Americans(and this was just a simple music video).
Also I had the uneducated affection that leads people to praise the Dali Lama, although I think he is a peaceful man now, what someone posted on the forum is true, while in Tibet he was seen as a living god, the normal folk were considered worthless and only there to be used. The young Dali Lama saw China as a good thing to be a part of and signed over Tibet to them, the Chinese were happy as the saw Tibet as being a part of Chinas past stolen by foreign powers, But the Dali Lama found himself unhappy with this unification and so with the help of the CIA start a revolt against the Chinese, After 2 years the Chinese troops had taken over all of Tibet and the Dali Lama and his Band of Leaders ran away to India. The Chinese said the were freeing the slaves(But this is just a propaganda slogan) 99% of the Tibetans you hear saying FREE TIBET are family of those that were exiled and as such have no country to call theirs(so that were the bitterness lies) Also you cant say the (real)Tibetans say they don’t want freedom but really do, you cant speak for them. The problem is China let Tibet keep its religion which has a loyalty to the Dali Lama, so some people(like Monks) will always be supportive of that man. Chinese people move everywhere in the world, why would Tibet(a part of China as they see it) be any different, this is the media creating a mountain from a mole hill. I want other Irish to relise these facts before spouting out the trendy ‘Free Tibet’. I always think its funny when people here think China is a bad place to live, Its not North Korea.:D

LCI

Pro C wrote: »

Nop, causes wave Japanese flag in China is going for a suiside mission.:D

Another one clueless about what we did on Saturday,

But if you wave Irish flags in Tian Anmen Square, and saying "Welcome to Dublin, Welcome to Ireland", like exactly what we did on Saturday, you are loved by the Chinese!

1 For Japanese people doing that is a suicide mission. Why is not it the same for Chinese students in the US? Please think about the deep reasons.

2 You cannot represent the Chinese government simply because you cannot even represent yourself when you go back to China. The evidence is that you cannot hold such a rally in Beijing.

If I use this example "the English waving their flags in Ireland", you'd say the reason is obvious. However, think about the Russian students doing the same thing in Dublin and demanding local media to follow them. Do we HAVE TO accept that?

After all, they are only guest to Dublin.

fly_agaric

Chris_Heilong wrote:

I saw the newspaper, As I expected, instead of showing a nice protest show the large numbers that turned up on the day or very much like the shots posted on this forum but instead opted for an aggressive locked off shot showing very little about what happened on the day so its easy to see why the Chinese feel misrepresented by western media

I see what you mean but I think they went for the "excitement" eye-grabbing factor rather than blandly accurate representation in that photo...

If you read the IT regularly you'll know it is an very "right-on" sort of newspaper when it comes to covering immigrants and minorities in Ireland. I'd be very surprised if they would try to negatively slant their coverage in the way you suggest even if they did not agree with the protest.

fly_agaric

Pro C wrote:

Good talking, after all, if we all care our own business, it wouldn't be any non-sense here anyway.

I think my point got a bit lost. I was just wondering did you expect this massive coverage of the protest in Irish media when it's nothing to do with us at all really? It was a group hug - a piece of patriotic flag waving about how great China is (+ boo to those who criticse China!) and has no relevance to Irish people at all. Most of the "Western Media Bias" the protest seems to be directed at was in CNN, BBC etc.

Pro C wrote: »

We are improving, doing a better job than years ago. So, why do the West focus your comments on China all the time?

They are critical right now, but they have not been in general. IMO, China has gotten a good to fair press over the past few years in the media of alot of Western countries.

The first really negative thing I can recall recently is the tainted exports & safety scares late last year (and I think there were also tainted product & food scares within China itself?).

Pro C wrote: »

If the Western government is always right, why there is no Weapon of Mass Destruction found in Iraq?[/B]

Well, I do have to say, an obvious point here is how do you know that the governments/leaders in question distorted the facts about these mythical WMD?
Oh yes - its because of the pesky media themselves (who earlier relayed and amplified the lies), and a culture of freedom of info , the idea that people actually do have a right to know. In "Western" countries govts can't totally clamp down on this even in cases where they wish to.
Unfortunately not enough people will stay "on message" to cover up the leaders/politicians lies and deceptions for too long...<sigh>

If the CCP had been in charge of the invasion and the subsequent "Iraq Survey Group", maybe WMD could have been unearthed for the cameras in Iraq :pac:, stuff like Abu Ghraib may still have happened but I doubt we (the ignorant peasants) would have heard anything more than a few whispers...
The CCP seems to be quite good at "media management". They have a bigger stick to wave at errant journalists, leakers, naughty bloggers etc than the politicians in Western countries.

Pro C wrote: »

I am a patriot, in fact majority of Chinese are patriots even they may not be happy with the corruption of the government, but so is Bertie, corruption is everywhere; your government is not doing much better than ours at the end of the day.

Yes corruption is present everywhere at all times but some countries are still more corrupt than others.

Pro C wrote: »

China never point its fingers at any other country before it resolves its own problems

China regularly "points its finger" at modern Japan for not accepting guilt for invading China in the past and killing lots of people.
I suppose one could say that Japan has a "problem" and China (and other Asian countries who suffered Japanese aggression) are none too shy in pointing it out and offering solutions...

You (and the Chinese govt.) are also "pointing the finger" at the whole of the "West's" media (god knows how many national broadcasters and companies) for "bias" (which causes us to have wrong opinions about Tibet and China) over these issues when China's own "media" is an organ of the rulers and outside media are severely curtailed in China.

Pro C wrote: »

whereas foreign countries, especially the West, have long established history of suppressing other countries freedom of dealing their internal affairs in their own way, and the West are always nosy about others’ issues before having their own issues sort it our first, who has more sensible mentality here? Yeah, we may be suppressing some minority people, but you are suppressing another country, which is crazier?
To give you a perfect example, you have your point by saying your way of solving problem by open dialogue, which I personally. But what about the West boycott the Olympic if China doesn’t buy your suggestion, isn’t it a suppressing? Is that what you do when your point is not taken? Isn’t it another slap on your own face?

Obviously, the West isn't a single entity and its borders are very fuzzy. You can't apply that to the entire "West".

An organised political boycott (Countries' govts decided teams will not be sent) would be pointless and wrong at this stage IMO. If individuals feel strongly enough about this that they decide not to go to the Olympics, that is totally up to them IMO.

hzy33

LCI wrote: »

After all, they are only guest to Dublin.

so ... because we are only guests, that means we don't have right to protest? don't you think this is contradict with you guys claim ireland is democratic nation? if ireland is indeed not democratic then welcome to communist comp

Pro C

hzy33 wrote: »

so ... because we are only guests, that means we don't have right to protest? don't you think this is contradict with you guys claim ireland is democratic nation? if ireland is indeed not democratic then welcome to communist comp

No, you are missing his point, he indicates we are not that welcomed and they don't really care anyway. Typical Islanders attitute.

At least we know we would treat foreign people with warm hands, that's enough.

There is another Chinese saying "Friends and guests come from far, so happy and welcome"

leninbenjamin

Pro C wrote: »

No, you are missing his point, he indicates we are not that welcomed and they don't really care anyway. Typical Islanders attitute.

At least we know we would treat foreign people with warm hands, that's enough.

There is another Chinese saying "Friends and guests come from far, so happy and welcome"

heh, now ye're telling us how to conduct our internal affairs

Pro C

fly_agaric wrote: »

I think my point got a bit lost. I was just wondering did you expect this massive coverage of the protest in Irish media when it's nothing to do with us at all really? It was a group hug - a piece of patriotic flag waving about how great China is (+ boo to those who criticse China!) and has no relevance to Irish people at all. Most of the "Western Media Bias" the protest seems to be directed at was in CNN, BBC etc.

They are critical right now, but they have not been in general. IMO, China has gotten a good to fair press over the past few years in the media of alot of Western countries.

The first really negative thing I can recall recently is the tainted exports & safety scares late last year (and I think there were also tainted product & food scares within China itself?).

To cut it short, the fact you can't recall doesn't mean they are not out there, I am not going to waste my time lecturing you how negative the west media has been, there is a site called Google.

fly_agaric wrote: »

Well, I do have to say, an obvious point here is how do you know that the governments/leaders in question distorted the facts about these mythical WMD?
Oh yes - its because of the pesky media themselves (who earlier relayed and amplified the lies), and a culture of freedom of info , the idea that people actually do have a right to know. In "Western" countries govts can't totally clamp down on this even in cases where they wish to.
Unfortunately not enough people will stay "on message" to cover up the leaders/politicians lies and deceptions for too long...<sigh>

If the CCP had been in charge of the invasion and the subsequent "Iraq Survey Group", maybe WMD could have been unearthed for the cameras in Iraq :pac:, stuff like Abu Ghraib may still have happened but I doubt we (the ignorant peasants) would have heard anything more than a few whispers...
The CCP seems to be quite good at "media management". They have a bigger stick to wave at errant journalists, leakers, naughty bloggers etc than the politicians in Western countries.

In short again, no WMD is no WMD.

fly_agaric wrote: »

Yes corruption is present everywhere at all times but some countries are still more corrupt than others.

So, what are you exactly saying? :rolleyes: In different degree, but in the same nature?

fly_agaric wrote: »

China regularly "points its finger" at modern Japan for not accepting guilt for invading China in the past and killing lots of people.
I suppose one could say that Japan has a "problem" and China (and other Asian countries who suffered Japanese aggression) are none too shy in pointing it out and offering solutions...
.

The problem is Japan does not accept the truth. (Please don't link it back to Tibet, the truth about Tibet is that it has always been part of China, you can start the whole debate again, nobody will debate with you)

fly_agaric wrote: »

Obviously, the West isn't a single entity and its borders are very fuzzy. You can't apply that to the entire "West".

An organised political boycott (Countries' govts decided teams will not be sent) would be pointless and wrong at this stage IMO. If individuals feel strongly enough about this that they decide not to go to the Olympics, that is totally up to them IMO.

The West do share so many political opinions in Common. Here West does not define territory, but way of thinking, here is one for you to learn today.

It is pointless to allow the coutries to compete who boycott the ceremony.

ilikerei

fly_agaric wrote: »

Yes corruption is present everywhere at all times but some countries are still more corrupt than others.

Hmmm...

With this sentence there is one thing confused me.

Some countries are still much more aggressive than China.
Why do you always censure China but ignore much more aggressive countries?

Pro C

leninbenjamin wrote: »

heh, now ye're telling us how to conduct our internal affairs

No, no, no. Not telling you, it is what and how we treat foreign people, there is nothing wrong of being nice

LCI

hzy33 wrote: »

so ... because we are only guests, that means we don't have right to protest? don't you think this is contradict with you guys claim ireland is democratic nation? if ireland is indeed not democratic then welcome to communist comp

First of all, I do not think you understand what DEMOCRACY is. To my very limited knowledge, democracy is based on “ownership”. In politics, it is relating to country, voting and citizens because this country belongs to citizens. Every citizen has equal rights (ownership) to this country. Obviously, a foreigner does not have the same rights as a citizen. They are not equal. Like it or not, we have to accept that.

"Democracy" cannot be applied everywhere, to all situations.

For example, foreigners cannot make a democratic movement with a visa officer to get their visas extended or granted. Another example is that employees cannot ask for “democracy” from their boss simply because they do not have ownership to that company. However, share holders can take part in voting and making business operation decisions according to their shares of the company (weight of ownership). I hope you can think about this example.

I think what you mean is actually relating to freedom of speaking and expressing. For this, of course a guest can have some rights as long as such rights are granted by law according to his personal status. For example, a US citizen can rely on donation to advocate communism. However, a foreigner would not be allowed to enter the US to do the same thing.

In fact, if you think about a guest to a family, you might know what I am talking.

Even for us, I do not think we have the right to ask a local media to do whatever we want. Yes, we can pretest what ... However, they do have the right to simply ignore that.

MasterSun

LCI wrote: »

Glad to see your discussion. Some questions to those Chinese students however:

If 1000 Japanese people were waving their flags on the Tian AnMen square,

1 Would you allow them to do so?
2 Would your country’s media do the same thing as you asked here?

If answers to the above are “No”. Then why?

ur questions reminded me of the the Love Munster parade in Belfast.
I Dare Ya
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z-PsR5xYIKk&feature=related

Listen to those Belfasters, Some of them have never heard of Munster .
which really shocked me

and the parade went through peacefully, not even a single incident occurred.
Compare it to the Love Ulster parade in Dub,
Does it tell us something?

Pro C

LCI wrote: »

"Democracy" cannot be applied everywhere, to all situations.

That's one of the key thing the Western or the Irish have to understand,

in your democracy domain, you may have more rights than what we have in ours,

but the thing is you are happy with what you have and most Chinese enjoys what we have,

And here is the question what borders you people?

Pro C

LCI wrote: »

1 For Japanese people doing that is a suicide mission. Why is not it the same for Chinese students in the US? Please think about the deep reasons.

2 You cannot represent the Chinese government simply because you cannot even represent yourself when you go back to China. The evidence is that you cannot hold such a rally in Beijing.

If I use this example "the English waving their flags in Ireland", you'd say the reason is obvious. However, think about the Russian students doing the same thing in Dublin and demanding local media to follow them. Do we HAVE TO accept that?

After all, they are only guest to Dublin.

You logic of debate is a complete disaster.