Chinese Delegates walk out of Greens Conference following Gormley's remarks on Tibet

ircoha

Just watching the above on TV, JG called for China to open dialogue with DL: the 3 Chinese delegates walked out in protest.:(

Denis Irwin

ircoha wrote: »

Just watching the above on TV, JG called for China to open dialogue with DL: the 3 Chinese delegates walked out in protest.:(

Says it all about the Chinese attitude towards Tibet really.

Tomas_V

I just spent one hour watching CCTV9's official rant on Tibet followed by the more mellow BBC program by Dan Cruikshank.

China needs to do some anger management, they may have valid points to make but they're clueless about getting people to listen.

Jimbo

Typical of Chinas attitude to this whole thing.
First time I've ever agreed with Gormley

Sherifu

Good on Gormley, didn't think he had it in him.

Denis Irwin

I also see that the Ambassador was told before hand that there would be comments made about the Tibet situation. Yet he chose to still go to the speech and then walk out when the comments were made. Looks like someone was told by Beijing to get some valuable propaganda footage for State TV.

Grudaire

Denis Irwin wrote: »

Looks like someone was told by Beijing to get some valuable propaganda footage for State TV.

What exactly did Gormley say?

Calling for 'Open Dialogue' isn't the most inciteful thing I've ever heard

Tomas_V

Denis Irwin wrote: »

Looks like someone was told by Beijing to get some valuable propaganda footage for State TV.

Maybe they'll show the Chinese demonstrators outside of the GPO....something about their right to govern Tibet going back to the 12th century. I'm sure the men of 1916 would have had an answer for that!

Denis Irwin

The Ambassador walked out soon after Gormley said the Chinese govt. should speak with the Dalai Lama. Who as we all know from that bastion of press freedom that is Chinese state TV is an evil man.:rolleyes:

Grudaire

Tomas_V wrote: »

Maybe they'll show the Chinese demonstrators outside of the GPO....something about their right to govern Tibet going back to the 12th century. I'm sure the men of 1916 would have had an answer for that!

You're not letting go of that one are ya!?

Ah on a lighter note this implies (I hope) that Gormley hasn't lost all his balls going into government

Tomas_V

Denis Irwin wrote: »

The Ambassador walked out soon after Gormley said the Chinese govt. should speak with the Dalai Lama. Who as we all know from that bastion of press freedom that is Chinese state TV is an evil man.:rolleyes:

Well, CCTV9 (Official Chinese Government controlled news channel in English) broadcast an interview with a former editor of Japan Times who has connected the Dalai Lama to Adolf Hitler by way of Heinrich Harrar. Also pointed out that the Nazis looked to Tibet as the origin of the Aryan race....:rolleyes:

Their media management is just a hoot. They need professional help.

Denis Irwin

Tomas_V wrote: »

Well, CCTV9 (Official Chinese Government controlled news channel in English) broadcast an interview with a former editor of Japan Times who has connected the Dalai Lama to Adolf Hitler by way of Heinrich Harrar. Also pointed out that the Nazis looked to Tibet as the origin of the Aryan race....:rolleyes:

Their media management is just a hoot. They need professional help.

Well if the Nazi's claimed that Tibet was the origin of the Aryan race surely that ends all Chinese claims to Tibet.:D

Tomas_V

Denis Irwin wrote: »

Well if the Nazi's claimed that Tibet was the origin of the Aryan race surely that ends all Chinese claims to Tibet.:D

Nope, apparently they (the Nazis) said that the Aryans then interbred with Mongols and give rise to the inferior (i.e. ugly) Tibetans and that this could happen to the Germans if they did not watch their racial purity etc.

This was all part of a major mud-slinging exercise on CCTV. The official news reader was loving every minute of the interview. Even got up and shook the hand of the Japanese journalist, he was so delighted with the information.

OK-Cancel-Apply

'They walked out in protest'

Maybe they are just tired of the BS. It's shamefull that Ireland may ruin its excellent relations with China over the United States' political games. But hey, we all know who really calls the shots in the world. After all, we are violating both our own constitution and international law by allowing the U.S. military through Shannon.

Grudaire

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

'They walked out in protest'

Maybe they are just tired of the BS. It's shamefull that Ireland may ruin its excellent relations with China over the United States' political games. But hey, we all know who really calls the shots in the world. After all, we are violating both our own constitution and international law by allowing the U.S. military through Shannon.

By calling for dialogue,

to be fair now, a bit of talking never hurt a politically unstable situation

Mike...

After he left, the ambassador told RTÉ News

that Chinese people loved peace and wanted good relations with Irish people.

'I hope our relations with Ireland, including economic relations, can go on.

Wonder what he is hinting at?

Grudaire

*mono* wrote: »

After he left, the ambassador told RTÉ News

that Chinese people loved peace and wanted good relations with Irish people.

'I hope our relations with Ireland, including economic relations, can go on.

Wonder what he is hinting at?

...he wants to keep getting our money?:rolleyes:

yawtin

John Gormleys comments were so cheap, he has shown his ignorance as to what is actually going on in China, Tibet, and the history behind the situation.

Does he know that at least 95% of the people living in Tibet prefer remain part of China, and all the troubles are being caused by a small minority. This minority were historicaly the slave owners (Yes Slave Owners) of the 95% of the Tibetan people. As all people are equal in the eyes of the Chinese government, the 5% could not handle equal rights, fled the country. In the last 50 years, living conditions for the majority of the Tibetan people have vastly improved. Shame on the western media for taking a swing at China at every opportunity, with little of the true facts, or distorting the truth. The Olympics and Sport in general are a good thing for people and nations, and China putting it's best into hosting the games and welcoming all nations of the world.

I ask you to just think about this, if I am sitting in a room of 10 western people and ask what do you think of the Tibetan situation, most of them will say something like "oh yeah, they should be free". However, ask them what is going on there and maybe one of them might know. Then mention one or two of the real truths, and most of them will be very supprised. How can people be sure of something which they do not know enough about to make a fair judgement upon. Again, I must point a finger at the media for ignoring the voice of the Chinese people, for ignoring the facts, and portraying a distorted view of situation.

(The above comment is from one of my Irish friends.)

SkepticOne

yawtin wrote: »

Does he know that at least 95% of the people living in Tibet prefer remain part of China,

Could you post a source for this please?

yawtin

SkepticOne wrote: »

Could you post a source for this please?

Sorry I do not have that figure for you.

I suppose you do agree that before 1959 when Dalai fled Tibet， 95% of the population was slaves. The monks and aristocrats owned the slaves and had the right to take a slave's life any time they like. many of the aristocrats who did not flee with Dalai were put into prison by the Tibetan autonomy Government since the flee.

My friend assumed that since these 95% slaves were liberated, they definitely fully supported the Communism government. You may discard that commend.

There is no official statistical figure on how many tibatens really want independency. But I have seen Tibetan people posting their support on Chinese boards.

One of them said there was 1 person in their village who had "political ambition". According to him, this seperatist brought 2 friends back and had a fight was villagers, one died, the other two rescued by the local police. He accused seperatists for betraying their people for a few hundred yuan (11 Yuan=1 Euro) extra money from Dalai's government. He also estimated there are maximum 10000 seperatists in Tibet. The Tibetan population in China is over 6 million. 10,000/6,000,000= 0.16%?

There are many other stories to confirm the Tibetans' support towards Chinese. One of these stories were from Taiwan, in which a girl descibed how her friend from Beijing was protected by Tibetan students from the violence.

I have no way to show you what I have seen, because most of the information is in Chinese.

If you want more information in English, watch these vedios:
Tibet Diary（1-6）： http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNeGcLoPFow

Tibet: The Truth ： http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

CIA： http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGCjoNXo1o

Dictator： http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5sOm-uQH9Y

Old Tibetan man Protest against "Free Tibet"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCDmWLWMvY8

irishmilk

Brian Capture wrote: »

China is a f*cking joke of a country.

Insane censorship.

Cruelty on a unprecedented scale.

No respector of copyright.

Rolling Stones having to censor their setlist when playing there.

GIVE ME JAPAN ANY DAY.

The censorship is much better compare 20 years ago, and still improving.
A ironical thing is All brand of PC sold in China must have a legal Windows preinstalled by government rule. You will be jail by selling a PC with Ubuntu only.

However, the west never "care" those improvement. And do you get what you have today instantly? How long does it take 'Magdalene Asylum' to get end? (Sorry for this example.)

Do you think the west are really try to help china's democracy or chinese people's life. The russia never be accepted by the west even it became democracy.

Also the situation of China: Large unemployment rate, Big gap between rich and poor areas, etc. A mass of people espicially of those poor are easily ANGRY with government for any cause. The government promised the country will become more democracy and they are improving. The chinese better believe them rather than the west as just thinking what does the west did to China in one hundred years ago.

Ps: You seem do not know japanese pray in Yasukuni Shrine for their WWII national heros evey year.

edanto

Cliste wrote: »

What exactly did Gormley say?

I just had a look over on the Green Party site and found the speech. It's here - http://blogs.greenparty.ie/2008/04/leaders_address_to_convention.html#more

Here's the only paragraph referencing Tibet:

John Gormley wrote:

Respect for human rights must extend to all cultures and countries. One country which has been exploited and suppressed and suffered for far too long is Tibet. We condemn unequivocally the flagrant human rights abuses by the Chinese government and call on the Chinese government to enter dialogue with the Dalai Lama.

Yawtin, where did you learn that history of pre 1959 Tibet? Can you link to any sources on the net to support that narrative? You could well be right - I'm not saying I know any better - I'm just interested in the credibility of your claim.

Grudaire

it's not a conservative statement, but I don't see any problems with it...

The_Minister

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

After all, we are violating both our own constitution and international law by allowing the U.S. military through Shannon.

No we aren't.
There is a UN mandate calling for aid to the war effort in Iraq.
There is nothing in our Constitution to stop us helping out.

yen

edanto wrote: »

I just had a look over on the Green Party site and found the speech. It's here - http://blogs.greenparty.ie/2008/04/leaders_address_to_convention.html#more

Here's the only paragraph referencing Tibet:



Yawtin, where did you learn that history of pre 1959 Tibet? Can you link to any sources on the net to support that narrative? You could well be right - I'm not saying I know any better - I'm just interested in the credibility of your claim.

I can tell you some truth I know about Tibet.
In 1959, there are only 5% of people control all of futune inculde lands in Tibet. most of people are slaves of this 5% of controlers. 40% of men are monks in the total population,because their parents has no money to fed them up. Dalai Lama was the most powerful person in Tibet who performs as a real king of Tibet. There was no electricity, no any factory or any technical things. only is land. those poor people and slaves all work on that 5% people's land for their living. Tibet is an big region in the west of china, which is highest tableland in china, there was even had no roads wider then 1 meter. people were lived in dark and hard and poor in their life,the only education they have got is from temples which controlled by Dalai Lama. the only thing they hoped is that their pudda can help them,but Dalai Lama was treated as the person who pass the messages to them from Pudda. that is ture situation at that time.

how about Tibet today, I think a lot of european has been there for travelling, you might find information online the words from those travellers.

The truth are from what is exactly there but not by making for some special purposes.

Jim_Are_Great

yawtin wrote: »

Sorry I do not have that figure for you.

I suppose you do agree that before 1959 when Dalai fled Tibet， 95% of the population was slaves. The monks and aristocrats owned the slaves and had the right to take a slave's life any time they like. many of the aristocrats who did not flee with Dalai were put into prison by the Tibetan autonomy Government since the flee.
...
There is no official statistical figure on how many tibatens really want independency. But I have seen Tibetan people posting their support on Chinese boards.
...
One of them said there was 1 person in their village who had "political ambition". According to him, this seperatist brought 2 friends back and had a fight was villagers, one died, the other two rescued by the local police.
...
There are many other stories to confirm the Tibetans' support towards Chinese. One of these stories were from Taiwan, in which a girl descibed how her friend from Beijing was protected by Tibetan students from the violence.
...
I have no way to show you what I have seen, because most of the information is in Chinese.
...

A lot of your arguments are flawed and your claims often seem apocryphal. But I'm not going to argue about them with you. Here's the thing, though: Even taking your arguments supporting the legitimacy of Tibetan occupation as acceptible, how do you justify
(a) the violent measures used against anti-Chinese activists
(b) The reticence of China to furnish anyone with clear information on what is happening in Tibet

MasterSun

Cliste wrote: »

What exactly did Gormley say?

Respect for human rights must extend to all cultures and countries. One country which has been exploited and suppressed and suffered for far too long is Tibet. We condemn unequivocally the flagrant abuse of human rights by the Chinese government and call on the Chinese government to enter dialogue with the Dalai Lama.

---

extracted form Gormley 's speech

after the Chinese ambassador Liu Biwei walked out, Mr. Liu said it was 'totally wrong' to describe Tibet as a country, and claimed Mr Gormley had accused the Chinese government without knowing what was truly happening there.

OK-Cancel-Apply

Quote:
Originally Posted by OK-Cancel-Apply
After all, we are violating both our own constitution and international law by allowing the U.S. military through Shannon.

No we aren't.
There is a UN mandate calling for aid to the war effort in Iraq.
There is nothing in our Constitution to stop us helping out.

British MP and anti-war campaigner George Galloway told Bertie Ahern that allowing the United States armed forces through Shannon airport was a direct violation of the Irish Constitution, and Bertie's reply was, "Yeah, true enough..."

Also, by your reasoning, the US and UK are perfectly justified in being there, because they are 'helping out' too.

edanto

Jaysus it's bad enough that every China thread is descending into the same kindof discussion without mixing Iraq into it.

Yawtin, mind if I repeat the questions?

Where did you learn that history of pre 1959 Tibet? Can you link to any sources on the net to support that narrative?

Here's an example site - it's very pro-Tibet, but it does have an interesting page giving at least two of the views on the history.

http://www.rangzen.com/history/views.htm
Sample

World Governments Do Not Recognize Tibet: China's Perspective
China asserts that no country has ever recognized Tibet. China also contends that Britain masterminded the Simla Conference (1913-1914) in collusion with Tibetan pro-British individuals. Both wanted to separate Tibet from China. At the time of the Simla Conference, even though the "McMahon Line" was negotiated between Tibet and Britain, at the end of the tripartite conference on Tibet's status and boundaries, Chinese officials who were present refused to recognize the "Line" on the grounds that Tibet was subordinate to China and had no power to make any treaties.

World Governments Recognize Tibet: The Tibetan Perspective
International law states that recognition can occur by explicit or implicit acts including treaties, negotiations, and diplomatic relations. Mongolia and Tibet signed a formal treaty of recognition in 1913. Historically, Nepal and Tibet had peace treaties. Tibetºs independence was also confirmed at the Treaty of Simla (1914) which was concluded by Tibet and British India.
In 1949, Tibet maintained diplomatic, economic, and cultural relations with such countries as Nepal, Sikkim, Mongolia, China, British India, and to some extent, Russia and Japan. Further, Nepal maintained an Ambassador in Lhasa and told the U.N. in 1949 that it conducted international relations with Tibet. In fact, Britian, Bhutan, India, and even China also maintained diplomatic missions in Tibet's capitol, Lhasa.
The Tibetan Foreign Office conducted talks with President Franklin D. Roosevelt when he sent representatives to Lhasa to discuss the allied war effort against Japan during World War II. In 1950, El Salvador formally requested that China's aggression against Tibet be placed on the agenda of the U.N. General Assembly. The issue was not discussed. However, during four U.N. General Assembly debates on Tibet (1959, 1960, 1961, & 1965), many countries (e.g., Philippines, Nicaragua, Thailand. United States, Ireland) openly stated that Tibet was an independent country illegally occupied by China.

Tomas_V

MasterSun wrote: »

after the Chinese ambassador Liu Biwei walked out, Mr. Liu said it was 'totally wrong' to describe Tibet as a country, and claimed Mr Gormley had accused the Chinese government without knowing what was truly happening there.

I wonder why he made a big scene instead of sending a diplomatic note to the government?

It seems to me that China is mostly interested in communicating its anger with world.

Captain Slow

Tomas_V wrote: »

I just spent one hour watching CCTV9's official rant on Tibet followed by the more mellow BBC program by Dan Cruikshank.

China needs to do some anger management, they may have valid points to make but they're clueless about getting people to listen.

Well, westen people are clueless about Tibet, all you know is what you get from your media, but Tibet is part of China, more than 200 coutries recognise it as part of China and that's a fact!