Chinese Delegates walk out of Greens Conference following Gormley's remarks on Tibet

Grudaire

Capital Slow wrote: »

Oh, in case you miss that as well, here is the figure Ireland export €5billions:rolleyes: to China each year and import only €2billion, we can spend the 5 elsewhere, obviously Ireland is not the only country in the world produce software and potatoes, we can get on with it without buying from you, but your economy will not be:(.

Really? somehow I can't believe those figures, I mean EVERYTHING is "made in China"
Of course I could take this to mean that you are threating us, but hey, you wouldn't!

Capital Slow wrote: »

With all respect, the message I am trying to confer is different source provides different "fact", the history we learnt in China is Tibet was ours and I am sure your argument will be our history lessons wasn't true from what you get on BBC, Wiki, or whatever, therefore we can argue this for ages and never come up anything.

You see it's not about who owns it. talking with the Irish, who put up with a foreign power for many many years, and arguably still does, you will get little sympathy with a Unionist viewpoint.

On that note, do Tibetans want freedom, have any surveys been done etc? If so, chances are I'll side with the Tibetans, if not however..... then the whole Free-Tibet thing is pointless. Anyone?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well now a whole lotta stuff is made in taiwan too, but of course the chinese consider that part of China too.

leninbenjamin

lonesome wrote: »

The Chinese Ambassador walked out as Gormley referred to Tibet as a country.
however RTE only partially broadcasted the part of Human Right?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0413/green.html

twas bad editing alright. i think they were emphasising the walking out rather than the comments in the clip, the camera was focused on the ambassador through most of it. i'd only just seen that mind, what a bloody idiot Gormley is.

Pro C

Cliste wrote: »

Really? somehow I can't believe those figures, I mean EVERYTHING is "made in China"
Of course I could take this to mean that you are threating us, but hey, you wouldn't!



You see it's not about who owns it. talking with the Irish, who put up with a foreign power for many many years, and arguably still does, you will get little sympathy with a Unionist viewpoint.

On that note, do Tibetans want freedom, have any surveys been done etc? If so, chances are I'll side with the Tibetans, if not however..... then the whole Free-Tibet thing is pointless. Anyone?

I was just told he can't answer that to you unfortunitely, he was banned by Boards.ie as well, that's your so-called freedom of speech.

Grudaire

Pro C wrote: »

I was just told he can't answer that to you unfortunitely, he was banned by Boards.ie as well, that's your so-called freedom of speech.

Do tell! what's he do?

leninbenjamin

Pro C wrote: »

I was just told he can't answer that to you unfortunitely, he was banned by Boards.ie as well, that's your so-called freedom of speed.

boards.ie is a private entity. there's no freedom of speech here, everything you post is hosted at the discretion of the admins and mods. you're mate posted some fairly derogatory comments about Irish in general which were frankly completely out of context and not in the slightest constructive in terms of debate. politics is heavily modded to avoid threads degenerating in such a fashion. there was no preferential treament there, many more users have been banned for Bertie bashing and other unsubstantiated and unhelpful remarks.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

if you think about it, the politics forum is like China. what the mods say goes, and woe betide you if you get in their way. They don't like journalists either.

lonesome

leninbenjamin wrote: »

twas bad editing alright. i think they were emphasising the walking out rather than the comments in the clip, the camera was focused on the ambassador through most of it. i'd only just seen that mind, what a bloody idiot Gormley is.

I am afaird RTE did that on purpose. It didn't want you know the truth behind the walking and mess them up.

yawtin

Tomas_V wrote: »

Your voice gets little respect because it's full of hatered and anger.

DO YOU MEAN MINE OR THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT?

My anger came from the strong sense of western media injustice.

If you are talking about the Chinese government, I do agree the Chinese governer you refered to is tactically wrong. He has received a lot of criticise in China too. As for CCTV, they are controled by the largely disliked Central Propaganda Department (CPD) of China, which also control "the Great Firewall". unfortunately, Chinese Government is not a dictatorship after all, CPD's big boss belong to an opposition group within the goverment. The removal or at least reformation of CPD will take a lot of power struggle, but I believe another 10 years is enough for the situation to be improved.

So at least now you know CCTV is by enlarge a propaganda machine and we Chinese do not agree with the way it is run. But the problem is if western media claim their mission is to report fairly, but in reality seem to be propaganda machine too, why shouldn't people be angry.

leninbenjamin

lonesome wrote: »

I am afaird RTE did that on purpose. It didn't want you know the truth behind the walking and mess them up.

ummm... they explain it on their own site. the link you posted as evidence towards their omission came from the same newsroom... what possible reason have you to suggest its a 'conspiracy' rather than an editing error? seriously you're making some pretty substantial allegations there, you might want to start backing them up with some proof.

yawtin

Somebody asked on this forum before about the evidence of BBC and other channel's misleading reporting. The main evidence in picture are shown on www.anti-cnn.com. However, I am more angry about their mistranslation, which can only be noticed by Chinese speakers.

I heard BBC translate "things should be done according to the law" into "there is no justice", I have also heard Channel 4 translate " We demostrale peacefully, it is a better way, there is no need for fight" into "there is no need to suppress us but they fire at us".

CCTV claimed 19 people died, Dalai said his sorce said over 90 died. Did your media tell you what these figure refer to? CCTV's 19 people refered to innocent people being killed by the roitors on 14th of March. They never said no roitors were killed. On the other hand, people went to check the 90 people on Dalai's list, at least 40 of the names on the list did not exist in the villages where they suppose to come from, or could not match the discription. Some of other guys had not contacted their villages for a long time so no body knows where there were. Did your media analyse these information for you? I only heard some people jumping on the figures to say the Chinese government admitted they killed 19 people.


Anyway, we are disappointed about western media and that seem to unify Chinese peoiple in general. For the first time even the Taiwan media is now on our side, because they speak Chinese too. I guess China actually benefited more in this roit and the related rally mess.

leninbenjamin

yawtin wrote: »

But the problem is if western media claim their mission is to report fairly, but in reality seem to be propaganda machine too, why shouldn't people be angry.

i would like to see some evidence towards this grand conspiracy. can you supply some? (and not some bullsh*t from the other side of the atlantic either, we know well enough what they can be like)

i'm also beginning to suspect that some people here dont know the difference between an editorial/opinion column and a report.

edit: oh yeah, anti-cnn wont work for me. just times out. that's why i'm asking. twould be better if you post the offending articles along with the links in the thread. some of us have limited interweb access.

eoin5

Here we are debating about wether Tibet is a country or not when people are being killed. All Gormless asked for was that the Chinese government would open discussions with the DL. If the Chinese ambassabor has some hangups over sovereignty then he should see that peace and discussion are needed first instead of such defensive brick wall actions.

Pro C

leninbenjamin wrote: »

boards.ie is a private entity. there's no freedom of speech here, everything you post is hosted at the discretion of the admins and mods. you're mate posted some fairly derogatory comments about Irish in general which were frankly completely out of context and not in the slightest constructive in terms of debate. politics is heavily modded to avoid threads degenerating in such a fashion. there was no preferential treament there, many more users have been banned for Bertie bashing and other unsubstantiated and unhelpful remarks.

Mordeth wrote: »

if you think about it, the politics forum is like China. what the mods say goes, and woe betide you if you get in their way. They don't like journalists either.

That's the whole point, isn't? It happens everywhere. They (westerners) shouldn't accuse the Chinese if they are not doing right in the first place, isn't it?

But the difference is, when western is doing something wrong the Chinese government always choose not to express opinions on because it is western's own internal affair and does not want to be nosy, but on the other hand the Chinese does not have the same respect in return, so who is wrong here?

yawtin

leninbenjamin wrote: »

if you'll look carefully in my previous post I linked to the most recent article i could remember that went into such details about the level of trade with China (albiet i should have made it more obvious). the TWO WAY trade for 2006 was around 5.5 with, the net effect on CHINA's side. unless you can provide me with definitive evidence to the contrary I will continue to believe you just plucked those figures out of your ass.

What figure did I use?

It is your Dunnes and Pennys and Musgrove buying from China. Did China force you to buy anything? Just boyccot Chinese products if you wish.

On the other hand, tell me what is it that China has to buy from you?

Grudaire

yawtin wrote: »

Somebody asked on this forum before about the evidence of BBC and other channel's misleading reporting. The main evidence in picture are shown on www.anti-cnn.com. However, I am more angry about their mistranslation, which can only be noticed by Chinese speakers.

Just one thing, anti-cnn points out that it's not the Chinese police who are attacking Tibetins, it is the local police- surely since there is no Government in Tibet(open to correction), it's the government who calls for a crackdown, so it is China's crackdown no?

leninbenjamin

Pro C wrote: »

That's the whole point, isn't? It happens everywhere. They (westerners) shouldn't accuse the Chinese if they are not doing right in the first place, isn't it?

in fairness there's a big difference between a privately owned internet forum and a publicly licensed broadcaster who have regulated professionals to do their reporting.

Pro C wrote: »

But the difference is, when western is doing something wrong the Chinese government always choose not to express opinions on because it is western's own internal affair and does not want to be nosy, but on the other hand the Chinese does not have the same respect in return, so who is wrong here?

that's the key. we choose to. China could choose to if they wanted and we couldn't do zilch about it but make a few anti-CCTV websites. by and large though it seems Western society is much more globalized than Chinese and accordingly would have a much greater appetite for such global information. i'm sure more Westerners are likely to have a stake or interest in a chinese operation than vice versa (although ic ould be wrong i guess)

leninbenjamin

yawtin wrote: »

What figure did I use?

i quoted captital slow's wrongly reported figures saying Ireland had a net balance of trade of some €3billion with China. you quoted my reply saying that because just because i did not see such figures they didn't exist (which was clearly wrong on your part)

It is your Dunnes and Pennys and Musgrove buying from China. Did China force you to buy anything? Just boyccot Chinese products if you wish.

On the other hand, tell me what is it that China has to buy from you?

yeah, we buy largely finished products (like ****ing GRANITE that we could have bought 5 miles down the road :mad:) that add little to our own economies worth, often at the expense of our own homegrown economic activities. you could buy much more specialised products such as medical devices, software and other crap (our wonderful Asia Strategy lol) that will add towards an increase in Chinese productivity (notice i say could, in that i havn't a clue what it actually is you buy so meh on this, but i would love to see a breakdown if you could obtain one?).

yawtin

Cliste wrote: »

it's the government who calls for a crackdown, so it is China's crackdown no?

It is a crackdown if the French Police putting protesting students into Jail was considered a crackdown. To be honest i don 't really know what is the right word to be used here. It is due to my limited English.

i am not saying China did not use violence. I am saying the western media decided not to give a fair report about China. After all the evidence I provided from my own experience, would you at least agree the media shouldn't predetermine China as "the evil one"?

I have to go now guys. My boyfriend is complaining that I am not giving him enough attention and he misses the good old days before Tibet turned my attention to politics.

Enjoy your debate.

Grudaire

yawtin wrote: »

It is a crackdown if the French Police uping protesting students into Jail was considered a crackdwn. To be honest i don 't really know what is the right word to be used here. It is due to my limited English.

i am not saying China did not use violence. I am saying the western media decided not to give a fair report about China. After all the evidence I provided from my own experience, would you at least agree the media shouldn't predetermine China as "the evil one"?

I have to go now guys. My boyfriend is complaining that I am not giving him enough attention and he misses the good old days before Tibet turned my attention to politics.

Enjoy your debate.

Lucky him:D

Ehm well It's difficult to blame the police, they were ordered to stop the protest (I'm sure, this assertion comes from logic, not fact!)

Pro C

leninbenjamin wrote: »

in fairness there's a big difference between a privately owned internet forum and a publicly licensed broadcaster who have regulated professionals to do their reporting.


that's the key. we choose to. China could choose to if they wanted and we couldn't do zilch about it but make a few anti-CCTV websites. by and large though it seems Western society is much more globalized than Chinese and accordingly would have a much greater appetite for such global information. i'm sure more Westerners are likely to have a stake or interest in a chinese operation than vice versa (although ic ould be wrong i guess)

It just shows the attitute, I am sure this forum has some representation about what people think, you wouldn't want your opinon to be expressed on somewhere you think it is not playing fair.

Yes, the western have a much greater appetite because they are greedy and they see China's rise as a threat rather benefit, therefore they choose to attack in many ways.

Here is another one, every country has problems but the western media are focusing and only focusing on the cons, just hold for 5 minutes, when can you last remember BBC or CNN report a single piece of good thing about China, so every country will do exactly the same if they are in China's position, but the thing is they are not. Your press or the media you choose to listen to are biased, isn't it that you should be up against?

On a brighter note, it is fact that every single foreign people lives in China feels great and genuinely welcomed whereas the Chinese in the west are not the same.

eoin5

Is anyone here actually defending the ambassadors walkout?

Grudaire

Pro C wrote: »

On a brighter note, it is fact that every single foreign people lives in Chinese feels great and genuinely welcomed whereas the Chinese in the west are not the same.

It is? :rolleyes:

right has anyone looked at anti-cnn.com? Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo

What the f*ck? I'll assume I don't have to point stuff out here?

SeanW

I heard, on the 9 O clock news I think, that Ireland imports €5 billion worth of Chinese goods every year. This came as no surprise, given current realities.

But what DID surprise me was that Ireland EXPORTS €2 billion worth of goods to China every year, and on that basis a representative of the Irish Exporters Alliance was calling for cool heads all around, in light of the Gormley speech controversy.

This doesn't seem logical, after all everything these days seems to be made in Asia, using very cheap labour plus there's that little matter of the highly overvalued Euro and our above-the-EU-average rate of inflation.

Anyone have any clue where this €2bn of exports to China is made up of?

leninbenjamin

Pro C wrote: »

Yes, the western have a much greater appetite because they are greedy and they see China's rise as a threat rather benefit, therefore they choose to attack in many ways.

see as a threat or see as a way to make money? a lot of western companies have a lot of money invested in CHina and wouldn't exactly be happy if the country were suddenly to close it's doors...

Pro C wrote: »

Here is another one, every country has problems but the western media are focusing and only focusing on the cons, just hold for 5 minutes, when can you last remember BBC or CNN report a single piece of good thing about China, so every country will do exactly the same if they are in China's position, but the thing is they are not. Your press or the media you choose to listen to are biased, isn't it that you should be up against?

uhh, when was the last time the BBC reported something good about England? or France? or Ireland? or any other nation? China is getting its 5 minutes of fame over the Olympics/Tibet things. tomorrow it will be somewhere else. that's who western media works. they sell are story. the story of the day. China aren't getting any different treatment here tbh, our media is excessively negative as a rule. that's what sells.

Pro C wrote: »

On a brighter note, it is fact that every single foreign people lives in China feels great and genuinely welcomed whereas the Chinese in the west are not the same.

source? you can't make unsubstantiated claims like that without a source. read the charter of the forum.

leninbenjamin

SeanW wrote: »

Anyone have any clue where this €2bn of exports to China is made up of?

some of it's agricultural, but afaik (i've seen no breakdown now, only comments on the likes of finfacts) the bulk of it is the likes of pfizer, intel and so on.

have a look here. slighty biased against the govt. but i have to say i agree with a lot of what's said. if you can find anything more reliable please let me know.

Pro C

Cliste wrote: »

It is? :rolleyes:

right has anyone looked at anti-cnn.com? Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9QNKB34cJo

What the f*ck? I'll assume I don't have to point stuff out here?

It represent the Chinese anger against the western biased media and press. Cause 99% people who is making a accusation about China hasn't been and lived in China and what they "know" about it is all through those media.

Chose someone who has been there and talk to them see what they say!

leninbenjamin

Pro C wrote: »

It represent the Chinese anger against the western biased media and press. Cause 99% people who is making a accusation about China hasn't been and lived in China and what they "know" about it is all through those media.

funnily enough, all those 'things' the author lists off about Britain and Oz etc. I agree with. FREE SCOTLAND!!!!*

:pac:

*only if they decide to in an internationally monitored referendum.

Pro C

source? you can't make unsubstantiated claims like that without a source. read the charter of the forum.[/quote]

with respect, by your way of thinking, everything has to come with a proof, I am sorry this time as I can't ask everyone of them signing a sheet of paper of their satisfaction score, but in China, the Chinese, all know and foreigners are really treated with great amount of respect, friendship and love, in a lot of circumstances they are treated even better than the Chinese. See it in your own eyes rather than the LCD. Seeing is believing!

leninbenjamin

Pro C wrote: »

with respect, by your way of thinking, everything has to come with a proof, I am sorry this time as I can't ask everyone of them signing a sheet of paper of their satisfaction score, but in China, the Chinese, all know and foreigners are really treated with great amount of respect, friendship and love, in a lot of circumstances they are treated even better than the Chinese.

fair enough but it's not unreasonable to ask for survey's of tourists satisfaction or something similar, even blogs etc. we make that type of thing all the time here (like this). more importantly i assume you have some sort of source to back that up, it isn't purely anecdotal is it? The charter of this forum clearly states you need to provide sources for what you state as fact, otherwise its just an opinion.