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New Passat engines

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  • 12-04-2008 10:09pm
    #1
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭


    This I'm sure will be of considerable interest to those contemplating buying a new one with our new VRT rules.

    The 2.0 TDI PD engine is being dropped in favour of the new Common Rail unit currently found in the Audi A4. It's already on sale in the UK according to WhatCar?. No idea of cost or CO2 data, but the same power and torque etc as the current PD motor, and like the old 2.0, is available in 140 and 170 bhp guises.

    There will be a new Bluemotion 1.9 TDI with 105 bhp. CO2 emissions are the same as a BMW 520d at 136 g/km - it will be the only Passat to get into the 16% VRT category, so obviously that will be the biggest selling Passat when it hits our shores presumably well in time for July. This has also just gone on sale in the UK. The engine will also be available in the Estate and pollutes 137 g/km, again the only Passat to get into the 16% VRT category.


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    #2
    alpina
    Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭alpina


    The benchmark engine in this sector had long been BMW’s 163bhp 320d but that looks to have changed with the advent of this punchy 170bhp diesel. It’s not only got the drop on the BMW in terms of power output, it also does a number on the Munich unit in terms of torque, the 320d fronting up with a peak figure of 251lb/ft as opposed to the Passat’s 258. The BMW may still appeal to more coorporate buyers on account of its lower CO2 emissions, but the Passat is a much more spacious car and will attract customers who need a genuine five seater. Opt for the six-speed manual and you’ll still only churn out 160g/km – less than a Kia Cerato 1.6.


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    #3
    Zonda999
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Zonda999


    E92 wrote: »
    This I'm sure will be of considerable interest to those contemplating buying a new one with our new VRT rules.

    The 2.0 TDI PD engine is being dropped in favour of the new Common Rail unit currently found in the Audi A4. It's already on sale in the UK according to WhatCar?. No idea of cost or CO2 data, but the same power and torque etc as the current PD motor, and like the old 2.0, is available in 140 and 170 bhp guises.

    There will be a new Bluemotion 1.9 TDI with 105 bhp. CO2 emissions are the same as a BMW 520d at 136 g/km - it will be the only Passat to get into the 16% VRT category, so obviously that will be the biggest selling Passat when it hits our shores presumably well in time for July. This has also just gone on sale in the UK. The engine will also be available in the Estate and pollutes 137 g/km, again the only Passat to get into the 16% VRT category.

    These are all coming in the new skoda superb as well i mite add.The superb is also gettin an eco friendly 1.9 tdi.Puts out the same co2, 136g/km.Skoda call it the "greenline".It may also come in the octavia in a while.The octavia is due to get a facelift toward the end of the year so expect it then as well as the introduction of the 1.4tsi 122ps replacing the 1.6fsi.Also rumours of an all new 1.2tsi to replace the 80ps 1.4 engine.This, of course would be across the board on all vag cars.I'm nearly sure its coming but we may have to wait a little while yet.It seems to be vw's general policy to downsize alll newly developed engines.....


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    #4
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    You only get the Common Rail in the Superb if you go for the most expensive 2.0 TDI 170 engine, The 140 engine is the current PD unit, and the volume seller for Ireland, is the stone age 1.9 TDI, which as noted will be in the 16% VRT category.

    It is VAG's policy that future petrol engines will have direct injection and increasingly turbochargers. I hope that fuel issues have been sorted, we don't want another replica of Mitsubishi's GDI engine now, do we? That is a complete disaster, and can fail(and when I say fail, I mean the word in the most literal sense) as early as 60k miles because of the high sulphur petrol and the lack of 98 RON petrol(though for some reason Volvo recommend 95 RON for that engine in the S40).


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    #5
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    On a related note, the A4 is now available with the 2.0 TDI 170 bhp engine.

    CO2 is unchanged from the 143 bhp version at 144 g/km. So 20% VRT for that then.

    In Germany it's €1,800 more than the 143 version.

    On a separate note, the same engine is also available in the TT. It is available with quattro 4 wheel drive only. CO2 is 139 g/km in the Coupé and 145 g/km in the Cabrio. Impressive stuff considering it's got 4WD. In Germany it's €35k roughly for the Coupé. Considering that the €37.7k in Germany BMW 520d makes it over here for €46k and is in an identical VRT bracket, I would be expecting the TT 2.0 TDI quattro Coupé to come in at around €43k, which I duly note is a not inconsiderable €6k less than the 2.0 petrol costs at the moment.

    The 2.0 TFSI will also be available with quattro 4 wheel drive shorty, in conjunction with the S tronic gearbox. Ironically CO2 improves compared to the front wheel drive version, but it's still in the same VRT category. It's €2,350 dearer than the front wheel drive equivalent. Will be available in both Coupé and Roadster guises.

    There will be a 1.8 TFSI 160 bhp for both Coupé and Roadster. The Coupé narrowly escapes 20% VRT. If only it polluted 3 g/km less! The roadster misses out by 6 g/km.

    The TTS gets into 28% VRT if it has the S tronic 'box for both Coupé and Roadster. The manual is in 32%.

    The A3 has a new 7 speed flappy paddle gearbox on the way. It's the one that VAG announced recently and the first VAG product to benefit from it is the 1.4 TFSI A3.

    It's so good it emits less CO2 than even the super frugal BMW 116i. At 137 g/km, it's the only non diesel, non BMW premium hatchback that manages to get into 16% VRT.

    Time to start a new thread me thinks!


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    #6
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    alpina wrote: »
    The benchmark engine in this sector had long been BMW’s 163bhp 320d but that looks to have changed with the advent of this punchy 170bhp diesel. It’s not only got the drop on the BMW in terms of power output, it also does a number on the Munich unit in terms of torque, the 320d fronting up with a peak figure of 251lb/ft as opposed to the Passat’s 258. The BMW may still appeal to more coorporate buyers on account of its lower CO2 emissions, but the Passat is a much more spacious car and will attract customers who need a genuine five seater. Opt for the six-speed manual and you’ll still only churn out 160g/km – less than a Kia Cerato 1.6.
    The 320d has 177 bhp and 258 lb ft. Has had since last September when it and the 520d got EfficientDynamics(the same engine is now found in the X3 2.0d). That engine was first introduced over a year ago as a 120d when the 1 series was facelifted last March.


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    #7
    maidhc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭maidhc


    E92 wrote: »
    The 320d has 177 bhp and 258 lb ft. Has had since last September when it and the 520d got EfficientDynamics(the same engine is now found in the X3 2.0d). That engine was first introduced over a year ago as a 120d when the 1 series was facelifted last March.

    Should the 123d not figure in this debate?


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    #8
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    maidhc wrote: »
    Should the 123d not figure in this debate?
    The 123d is BMW's performance diesel. Can't really Passat PD GTI TD PDI, can you?


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    #9
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    JHMEG wrote: »
    The 123d is BMW's performance diesel.

    The 3.0 twin sequential turbo diesel with 286 bhp and 413 lb ft is the most powerful diesel the company makes. Much more like a performance diesel to me;)! Though the 123d is the world's most powerful diesel of it's kind and it has the highest specific output of any road going diesel on sale.

    There was a lot of talk about a diesel Rolls Royce, well fortunately that extremely unlikely to happen, as the only engine that would have had any hope of getting into a Roller was the twin turbo V8 diesel BMW has, however the V8 diesel sold in the continent will be abolished when the next generation 7 series debuts next year.

    The V8 will be replaced by a twin sequential turbo straight 6 diesel, as it can deliver the same performance but superior economy. With the 745d currently delivering 329 bhp, clearly the current 286 bhp straight 6 diesel will need an upgrade, and the next generation 5 series in 2010 will have around 300 bhp from it's most powerful diesel, the 535d.

    That also means we'll be spared of a diesel with the M badge too with a bit of luck:)!


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    #10
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    E92 wrote: »
    Though the 123d is the world's most powerful diesel of it's kind and it has the highest specific output of any road going diesel on sale.
    Yes, but using two blowers, and Mitsubishi get 200bhp per litre in the FQ400 production version of the Evo.

    When/if BMW do 100bhp a litre in a diesel without forced induction I'll be impressed. I'd be very very impressed.


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    #11
    maidhc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭maidhc


    JHMEG wrote: »
    Yes, but using two blowers, and Mitsubishi get 200bhp per litre in the FQ400 production version of the Evo.

    And it did 54mpg and was under 140g for co2?

    BMW make an engine with more power than a cosworth, that does better mpg than a yaris, and has very favourable fiscal benefits and you go off raiméising again!


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    #12
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    maidhc wrote: »
    And it did 54mpg and was under 140g for co2?

    BMW make an engine with more power than a cosworth, that does better mpg than a yaris, and has very favourable fiscal benefits and you go off raiméising again!
    It's even got more torque than a Ferrari 360 Modena too:eek:!

    It's an amazing achievement really, I prefer petrols to diesels but it is proof if any were needed how much diesels have changed in recent times. No-one can deny that this is progress for diesel. I hope it wins the 1.8 to 2.0 engine category in the International Engine of the Year awards this year. You still get all that dreadful diesel clatter though(well the 520d and even the 730d let you know what fuel powers them), but 204 bhp AND 54.3 mpg I'm sure is more than adequate compensation:D!

    I have a feeling that the new Merc diesel will be a good bit better though, the same 204 bhp, but 369 lb ft of torque rather than 295 from it's 2148 cc. That's what a 530d has today. I sometimes think how can car makers possibly squeeze more out of a diesel and yet they still manage to do so. And each time I'm truthfully amazed that they do it! If only car makers invested this much time and energy in petrols. We'd probably have 400 bhp 2.0s in our sleep that would do 40 mpg without any fuss:eek:!


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    #13
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    maidhc wrote: »
    And it did 54mpg and was under 140g for co2?

    BMW make an engine with more power than a cosworth, that does better mpg than a yaris, and has very favourable fiscal benefits and you go off raiméising again!
    Ah maidhc, give it up boy. Have you ever driven a 400bhp car and wondered if it was achieving the same fuel economy as a Yaris? And Cosworths are dinosaurs...


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    #14
    maidhc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭maidhc


    E92 wrote: »
    We'd probably have 400 bhp 2.0s in our sleep that would do 40 mpg without any fuss:eek:!

    If it was that easy it would be done long ago.

    JHMEG, I have never driven a 400bhp car, and yes, Cosworths are from a bygone era. But you must say it is impressive to have a car with substantially more power than a golf gti that can still do massive mpg and come in with a low tax rate. I'm thinking in terms of it being an everyday runabout... which the 123d is, and for that it is one phenomenal machine and one I assume that has no petrol equivalent...


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    #15
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    maidhc wrote: »
    If it was that easy it would be done long ago.

    JHMEG, I have never driven a 400bhp car, and yes, Cosworths are from a bygone era. But you must say it is impressive to have a car with substantially more power than a golf gti that can still do massive mpg and come in with a low tax rate. I'm thinking in terms of it being an everyday runabout... which the 123d is, and for that it is one phenomenal machine and one I assume that has no petrol equivalent...



    Arghh... its starting again!


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    #16
    RedorDead
    Registered Users Posts: 1,596 ✭✭✭RedorDead


    E92 wrote: »
    Though the 123d is the world's most powerful diesel of it's kind and it has the highest specific output of any road going diesel on sale.

    I take you mean in comparison to other 2.0 litre diesels when you say the above?


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    #17
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    RedorDead wrote: »
    I take you mean in comparison to other 2.0 litre diesels when you say the above?
    Yes. It is the most powerful 4 cylinder diesel on sale at the moment. Of course it's not anywhere even near close to the world's most powerful diesel:D!

    And even when Merc's new diesel comes, it will still be the most powerful 2.0 diesel. Though Audi are meant to be having a 200 bhp twin turbo 2.0 TDI on the way too.


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