Mystery Items!

José Alaninho

Just thought I'd start this to see if anyone could give me any info on some strange stuff I have acquired over the years. Note: It's ALL Third Reich, so I apologize for any offence to anyone.

First up is this Spanish Civil War cross in silver with swords.

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It was found buried in the forests south of Berlin by a German friend of mine who sends stuff over to me. As far as I remember this is where most of Hitler's 9th (?) Army was surrounded and obliterated in 1945 by the Russians. My friend finds loads of stuff there. Anyway, it is in fair condition, but a bit shipped and rough around the edges, and most of the silver finish is gone. The strange thing about it is the "RZM" mark and "Ges. Gesch" mark on the back, which can be seen in the second picture.

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Being a high grade medal would this not have been made by a private manufacturer? And i have only ever seen the "Ges. Gesch" mark on tinnies and small badges. Anyone help?

José Alaninho

Next up we have an M35 Combat Helmet I picked up in Prague for the princely sum of €25.

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It has an original and almost perfect black gloss finish (SS?) and intact and matching 'large' style liner bolts. The thing that gets me is the liner. I reckon it has to be post-war manufacture. It is made of synthetic leather-type stuff with '57' and 'Drutex Praha' printed in red ink on one of the flaps.

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Anyone seen anything like this before?

José Alaninho

And, finally for now, my M42 Kriegsmarine helmet, given to me by my aforementioned German pal's grandfather, who kept it from his navy days serving in the Atlantic and Mediterranean.

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It has no chinstrap but the liner is very good, with one strange feature- it has a genuine snakeskin pad at the crown! The detail can be seen here:

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I asked the original owner and he said it was issued like that. Very strange, or am I wrong? Let me know what ye think.

FiSe

José Alaninho wrote: »

Next up we have an M35 Combat Helmet I picked up in Prague for the princely sum of €25.

DSC00564.JPG

It has an original and almost perfect black gloss finish (SS?) and intact and matching 'large' style liner bolts. The thing that gets me is the liner. I reckon it has to be post-war manufacture. It is made of synthetic leather-type stuff with '57' and 'Drutex Praha' printed in red ink on one of the flaps.

DSC00565.JPG
DSC00566.JPG

Anyone seen anything like this before?

Yep, it's from the post war era. So no SS I'm affraid...
Production of these helmets continued for some time after the war in Czechoslovakia using war supplies found in a warehouses all over the place.
If you will take a look under the linen you might find Reich's "chicken" or any other manufacturer's stamp which should tell you exactly from wich era this helmet coming from.
Firebrigade units and Civil defence units were equipped with these gloss black painted helmets.

danpatjoe

Hello José,

I admit I know very little about these awards, but I would be wary of that one. Being ground-dug, I can forgive the lack of detail but my main concern is that it looks like it is a one piece construction. As far as I can remember, the central disc with the swastika should be a separate piece.

Also, I have never seen the RZM logo without a code or used in conjunction with the "Ges. Gesch" mark. Some very early Party pins had the "Ges. Gesch" but not with an RZM mark.

I may well be wrong, but if it were a private purchase piece (especially of a high grade award), I would imagine that it would have had a high quality construction of a quality material, but this one looks like it is zinc.

Forgive me if I am incorrect about any of this information, like I said, I don't know much about these awards, and this is just my humble opinion.

Regards - Dan

José Alaninho

I have to admit that the title 'mystery items' should read 'items I suspect of being fakes and /or postwar'. I had my suspicions about the Spanish Cross and the helmet alright. Still it looks nice in my cabinet!

Anyone know about the snakeskin padding in the Kriegsmarine, which is genuine beyond doubt?

arnhem44

José Alaninho wrote: »

And, finally for now, my M42 Kriegsmarine helmet, given to me by my aforementioned German pal's grandfather, who kept it from his navy days serving in the Atlantic and Mediterranean.

DSC00568.JPG

It has no chinstrap but the liner is very good, with one strange feature- it has a genuine snakeskin pad at the crown! The detail can be seen here:

DSC00569.JPG

I asked the original owner and he said it was issued like that. Very strange, or am I wrong? Let me know what ye think.

is there any makers mark on the helmet or liner,both leather and metalwork,it might be able to be traced back to a manufacturer and what they used at the time

José Alaninho

arnhem44 wrote: »

is there any makers mark on the helmet or liner,both leather and metalwork,it might be able to be traced back to a manufacturer and what they used at the time

Helmet shell is marked 'EF64' (could be 'EF04', it's faded a bit) and underneath that '3662'. No visible marks on the liner.

Dr Strange

José Alaninho wrote: »

Helmet shell is marked 'EF64' (could be 'EF04', it's faded a bit) and underneath that '3662'. No visible marks on the liner.

Hi,

the EF stands for the maker Emaillierwerke A.G. (EF = Emaillierwerke Fulda) and the 64 is the metric helmet shell size. The 3662 is the particular production number of the helmet lot.

As for the M35 FiSe is right. These helmets were also reused after the war by Czechs and Romanians for their firefighters outfits etc. This is notable because of the new liner. The large bolts or rivets are a dead give-away for reused and possibly reproduced post-war helmets. The original German helmets did not have large rivets like these.

José Alaninho

Preusse wrote: »

Hi,

the EF stands for the maker Emaillierwerke A.G. (EF = Emaillierwerke Fulda) and the 64 is the metric helmet shell size. The 3662 is the particular production number of the helmet lot.

As for the M35 FiSe is right. These helmets were also reused after the war by Czechs and Romanians for their firefighters outfits etc. This is notable because of the new liner. The large bolts or rivets are a dead give-away for reused and possibly reproduced post-war helmets. The original German helmets did not have large rivets like these.

Cheers for that Preusse, nice to know a little something about it at last. Any idea about the snakeskin though?

Per the M35, the shell itself appears genuine, i was dead sure the liner was a fake though, thanks for the info anyway! The M35 shell is marked '3885' if that's any help, no other makers marks or anything. It has the rolled edges and seperate vent-holes so I'm presuming an original shell?

José Alaninho

Okay, got another item here, a copy of the SS weekly 'Das Schwarze Korps'. Can't find much online info on it, any ideas on rarity and / or value?

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