Low flying aircraft <1000ft

Our man in Havana

There is a small aircraft that has been disturbing myself and my animals for the last few days. Looks like a single engined aircraft and it has been flying over the village at less than 1000ft. Sounded like a bigger aircraft was going to crash so I ran outside.

That is the min altitude that an aircraft may fly at? Also do such low level flights require ATC approval?

I would love to know who it is and what they are up to.

electric69

If there is an aerodrome close to you there is a possiblilty that the aircraft may either be in a traffic pattern or shooting an approach to the runway.The minimum altitude depends on both the terrain and how densely populated your location is. 1000 ft is the minimum altitude at which most aircraft fly but that is also depending on the weather conditions as the altitude is based on pressure and not the actual height above ground. so it really all depends on a few different factors. If you have a set of binoculars you can get the tail number on the aircraft and then make an enquiry to the IAA about the height that the aircraft is flying at.

highlydebased

Depends where it is. If its in the middle of nowhere, could be uncontrolled airspace

Our man in Havana

The nearest aerodrome would be either Kilkenny or Birr both 25 miles away so they wouldn't be about to land anytime soon i would think.

Re: Uncontrolled airspace, I assume a pilot can do what he wants and fly at any flight level that suits him?

highlydebased

Yea.....alot of that area is uncontrolled. They might be not be in communication with any ATC at all.

*Kol*

Could be taking aerial photos??

Our man in Havana

*Kol* wrote: »

Could be taking aerial photos??

5 days running at this stage? All at the same time of day also. I doubt it is photographs tbh.

cp251

These are the rules as laid down by in the 'Rules of the Air' SI No. 72

(1) Except as permitted by the appropriate authority or as hereinafter provided aircraft
shall not be flown:
(i) closer than 150 metres, (500 ft) to any person, vehicle, vessel or
structure, or
(ii) at a height less than 150 metres (500 ft) above the ground or water,

Over towns and congested areas the minimum is 1500 feet but I don't think your village would count as a 'congested area'. But the minimum is 500 feet. By the sound of it the aircraft hasn't broken that rule. If it had the registration would be clearly readable. However it is odd for an aircraft to repeat the same thing five days running. Which probably means the same pilot. Possibly it's a new pilot is flying over his house or something with different members of his family? Has anyone in the village learnt to fly lately? On the other hand could it be an Air Corps aircraft? They would often be flying low during training. Or is there a new road or other construction project being built nearby? It could be contracted to fly over every day to review progress?

It's unusual to say the least for an aircraft to visit the same spot five days running. It must have a good reason for it. If you can get the reg and post it here. It might narrow down the search.

jmayo

OP Do you know if anyone in the area has bought a little runabout recently ?
They could be operating from field nearby and thus decide to overfly nearby village.

Also do not write any smart messages on shed roof or ground for him/her because it may then attract others so you get even more traffic.

http://www.targeta.co.uk/wheretogo.htm

Our man in Havana

Well he must be reading this thread. Not a sign of him today. I made some enquiries and it turns out it was a charter working for the county council looking for illegal fires. :eek:

APM

I'm 99% sure there is a calibrator aircraft knocking about them there regions calibrating the local VOR's.

Could possibly be that?

cp251

Ah a 'spyplane'. I've an idea who it might be now. County councils often charter aircraft to spy on unauthorised developements, dumping, illegal quarrying, polluting lakes etc. It something that pays for itself in fines.

PS If my guess is right, the pilot will have stayed at a legal height. 500 feet minimum. They are quite strict about it and very professional. But it does prove that legal can still be annoying to people on the ground.

highlydebased

APM wrote: »

I'm 99% sure there is a calibrator aircraft knocking about them there regions calibrating the local VOR's.

Could possibly be that?

Aint any VOR's in the midlands!

mrbungle

A guy at work told me he was out on Bettystown beach last week and a light a/c flew along the breaking water for about 2-3 miles at about 50-100ft !!

Hardly the council, probably some sham showboating. Quite dangerous.

Steyr

mrbungle wrote: »

A guy at work told me he was out on Bettystown beach last week and a light a/c flew along the breaking water for about 2-3 miles at about 50-100ft !!

Hardly the council, probably some sham showboating. Quite dangerous.

Perfectly normal/legit if he has a DA ( Display Authorisation ) Licence to allow him operate at 50ft.

cp251

Have to admit I've done that once or twice just off the beach. Not too low. Great fun but still illegal. In Ireland it's illegal to fly within 500 feet of any person, vehicle or structure and below 500 generally, even over the sea. In the UK and other countries you may fly below 500 feet as long as there are no people, vehicles or structures. So low flying over the sea or lake or isolated countryside is legal. Odd that we should have a more restrictive rule.

I remember a story of an young Air Corps pilot, Lieutenant X, returning from a sortie in his PC9. He decides to descend to low level, unauthorised, along the coast. Soon he's skimming the waves. Then he notices two isolated figures on the beach obviously having a picnic. No one else is around. This is to good a chance to miss. He breaks hard and barrels straight towards the couple, right on the deck. He knows they can't read his numbers because of the angle of approach and in any case his OC in Baldonnel is on a day off so even if it's reported. They will never trace him. Straight over the top he goes and the picnic scatters. He catches a glimpse of the man diving headfirst into the sand. How he laughs as he performs a victory roll.
Soon he's back in Baldonnel. As he taxies in, he notices on the duty officer waiting for him. He looks grim. Soon the pilot finds out why.
Apparently the OC had just called in. Apparently he was enjoying a nice picnic on the beach with his lovely wife when.............................:D

A true story honest! Although I have to admit I have read versions with an RAF or USAF pilot. Possibly an aviation legend:cool:

yaeger

Doubt calibrator was in the midlands below 1000ft. HE BE BACK on track!
O and a 100ft above the waves aint dangerous, its called fun !
If low flying is annoying just take a pic if possible get the reg ( as already stated ) and call local airfields like birr or kilkenny and tell them you aint happy, your idea or the joe publics idea of lowing flying and what is legally permitted could probably be two different things.

Oilrig

I don't mind fixed wing flying low, but a rotary flying low & slow over populated areas always makes me nervous...

skybus

It's not this person is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S61zLcMFp1A

or the most impressive of all is on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmOiF4FppYI

Even the big jets do it now and again. Ever see a commercial type aircraft go into a vertical climb?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYZOByowrlU&feature=related

Or the clip from a few months ago where the Cathay Pacific captain got sacked for this stunt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1ijLu2HzvI&feature=related

electric69

Oilrig wrote: »

I don't mind fixed wing flying low, but a rotary flying low & slow over populated areas always makes me nervous...

LOL...if i was on the ground i would much rather have a low flying helicopter than a fixed wing. What do you think is gonna happen if the engine goes? Helicopter can land in your back garden while a fixed wing is going to go through your house along with quite a few others..

andy_g

electric69 wrote: »

LOL...if i was on the ground i would much rather have a low flying helicopter than a fixed wing. What do you think is gonna happen if the engine goes? Helicopter can land in your back garden while a fixed wing is going to go through your house along with quite a few others..

for a helicopter usually the airspeed need to be above 40kts so it can auto-rotate if the engine fails and with fixed wing you can glide im a fixed wing pilot myself and tbh i wouldnt fancy a low level whirleybird

electric69

no u dont need to be going over 40kts for an auto in a helicopter...and where is the fixed wing going to glide to when it is surrounded by houses and bulidings?

Chances of survival in a helicopter are greater than a fixed wing if they are both at the same given height and speed over a crowded residential area.

chickenhawk

Electric69 is right. A plane will glide but unless you are near a park or something it is only going to glide into houses a bit further down the st.

cp251

No in fact Andy g is correct. An single engined aeroplane has a lot of options after an engine failure. Even over a city, where it should be at least at 1500 feet. That's three minutes or more to pick a piece of open ground as far as about 3 or 4 miles away depending on the aircraft. Flying over Dublin city recently there were many places I could have put the aircraft down with hitting any houses. The beach in particular which is reachable from anywhere in the city centre. The higher you are the more options you have. Take a map and draw a circle 6 miles in diameter from O'Connell street. That's a lot of space.

Helicopters on the other hand have to go straight down. They can land in a tight spot but room for manoeuvre is minimal. Helicopters tend to fly lower than fixed wing aircraft too.

chickenhawk

Three minutes may seem like a long time while training. But put yourself in an emergency with stress and even if you set best glide speed immediately then you still have to find a place to land and everything else.

cp251

It would be a tense three and a bit minutes to be sure. But it's plenty of time to avoid houses, creches, primary schools and nuclear power stations.

My Cessna 172 manual indicates you would glide 4 nm from 2000 feet in zero wind at 65 knots. That gives you a lot of options. In a chopper it's all downhill. You have to take what you're given.

electric69

Well as the topic says, and what we were refering too, 1000ft and low airspeed is not going to get you very far when u are in a built up area.A helicopter, on the other hand is going to have time to pick out a suitable landing area which can need only be a road,large garden,park etc.A fixed wing at the same altitude is going going one place.What is the gliding distance of a 172 at 1000ft or less at low speed?not very far i would guess.

Steyr

Speaking of low flying we had 2 PC9M's over Galway City today around midday, tight enough, great sight and sound.

jackofalltrades

cp251 wrote:

It would be a tense three and a bit minutes to be sure. But it's plenty of time to avoid houses, creches, primary schools and nuclear power stations.

My Cessna 172 manual indicates you would glide 4 nm from 2000 feet in zero wind at 65 knots. That gives you a lot of options. In a chopper it's all downhill. You have to take what you're given.

Having flown both fixed wing and rotary, I'd have to say that in the event of an engine failure I'd take the chopper over the plane any day.

You may drop fast in an autorotation, but you still have a good deal of maneuverability, that and it doesn't take a lot of space to land a chopper in. A plane on the other hand you need to find something unobstructed that looks like a landing strip, and unlike a helicopter the bigger the plane the more difficult this job usually becomes.

cp251

I saw them too, Steyr, rules of the air obviously don't apply to the military. Formation flying at less than 1500 feet over a city, tsk tsk.:p If things had worked out, you might have seen me later, or rather heard me overhead. But the flight was scrubbed.

Electric, if you are at a 1000 ft over a built up area then you are A. Illegal and B. Stupid. Even so you would still have about 2 minutes and a couple of miles to put it down away from the proverbial primary school. A helicopter would be a much better option in that case.

What is absolutely true is that away from a city, a helicopter is much better in the engine failure case at low level. In a dense city environment, you take what you get. In Dublin, there's Stephen's Green or even the pad on the roof of Leinster house. Not to mention the numerous other green spots dotted around the town.

But we are kind of comparing apples and oranges here. Helicopters are more likely to be low level over a city or anywhere really. Aeroplanes are not. They tend to fly higher and are legally bound to remain over 1500 ft over a city. I've flown over Dublin at that height many times in a Cessna 172. I always have a get out, but it's surprising how many options there are, parks, beaches, golf courses. A heli at the same height would be even more comfortable.