NCT test or get a pre-nct test

jimmyw

Pattylou wrote: »

I've just failed by NCT Test, I got a five point health check on my car by
Fast Fit and they told me there was nothing wrong with my car. It was free so no bother. My car failed on the following:

Brake effort: Nearside 0.66kN offside 1.19kN
Ovality: Nearside 27% offside 28%

Imbalance: 45% it should have been under30%

I phoned Advance Pit Stop and was assured by the Mechanic that he knew exactly what was the matter. A leak in the Brake Cylinder and that I would have to buy 2 at E87 a piece. I asked him was that all and he said no it may need other things. I asked if I could bring up the car to him to have it checked and get an estimate and he said OK. I did that and was told again after having (I Hope) the car checked that it was a leak in the cylinder and that the total cost for repair would be E.200 and that the
sidelamps that failed also would be replaced free of charge.

I came home and phoned the Hyundai Dealers( The car is Hyundai Atos with a milage of 32,000 miles) what they would charge for the same job and they also quoted E200 because they said the labour would cost approx. 110E. So as I am a woman who knows very little about cars wonder should I keep looking, I read on Boards.ie that for 2 cyliners + brakepads should'nt be an more that E150. Any help would be appreiaced.

Them pre-nct tests are silly, no need for them. Wait and see if and what it fails on and then you know exactly where the problem is instead of paying money to these people for nothing.

Pattylou

Thank you Jimmy, I dont know how I got myself into a Waterford thread. I agree that the Pre tests are silly BUT I went through the test and failed, if you read my post you would see what I failed on. At the test centre when I asked if they could be more specific they told me they could'nt tell me any more, go see my mechanic. I have been going around trying to get more info from Garages, dealers, anybody and I am being told it could be anything, so that has left me at a great disadvantage. I was told to have my NCT test first and I would at least know what the problem was before going to a garage but I spent E50 on the test to be failed on a nonspecific break problem which could be anything. All they do in Dublin Deansgrange test centre is give you the figures, none of them speak English and tell you to retest in 28 days. Very bad service from the NCT in Deansgrange Dublin. It's a scam. I did put in a complaint and was ignored, so one cannot even complain.

jimmyw

Any competent mechanic should be able to find out what the problem is. The dealers are always going to charge more. Did you try an independent garage?Cant really expect the nct guys to tell you what the problem is, they are only using the figures from the machine. Is the problem with the front or back? Might be only sticking shoes/pads or maybe replacement of same. What condition is the handbrake?

Pattylou

Thank you Jimmy for that. I wish it was proving that simple.

Result of Test:
Parking Brake = passed.
Brake test Front Axle= Passed

Rear Axle:
Brake effort: Ovality

Nearside: Offside Nearside Offside Imbalance 45%
.66kn 1.19kn 27% 28%

Car weight: 059 kg
Brake effort: 68%
Parking: 23%

No visual defects:

What I have done since:
Phoned Hyundi dealers and asked for an estimate, they could not give it on the readings, said that it could be so many things. E60 per half hour to locate the problem!!
Phoned: Advance Pitstop: said it was a leak in the cylinder, need to get 2. E200 I asked him how he knew and he said he just knew but there could be more wrong....
Phoned: Hyundai dealers to price replacement of cylinders: Approx E200

Read on Boards that it should'nt cost more than E150

Have 2 back street mechanics who told me that they would take in the car, take off the wheels and then would come back to me with a price, didn't know from the reading what was wrong. The reservation I have about them removing the wheels ect. is that it seems pointless if during the test there were no visual signs of defect, and I would be sure what they were doing!

What surprised me that the only mechanic that seemed to know from the reading what was wrong was Advance Pitstop. Big decision. i dont have that much money to play around with.

jimmyw

Well you see the problem probably cant be seen unless you take off the drum after removing the wheel (if thats what is on the back which I assume is).The only way someone will know for sure is to take off the drum.It could well be the cylinders but I dont know how anyone can tell without taking this off,unless there was fluid leaking from it, so the AP guy could be bluffing. Afraid you will have to have someone who knows what their doing to take this off and have a look.I could even do this on my own car and should have a good idea whats wrong, if I had this problem.

Pattylou

O Jimmy, you are so right. AP may well be bluffing, he told me there WAS a leak in the cylinder at the rear axle and that I needed the 2 replaced. The thing is that would mean that there would have been some signs of a leak during the test but there were no visable signs also the brake fluid would have been down ( I think, I've only been learning about cars during the past few days here on Boards.ie) Anyway, I'll have to trust one of the mechanics who offered to do a visual and take my chances. I'm just sorry that M.J.O'Shea doesn't live in Dublin, and if it was anything other than the brakes, I'd nearly drive down to see him. Thank you Jimmy for all your help, really appreciated. Have a good weekend and don't forget to put your clock back. It is this weekend isn't it.:cool:

jimmyw

Well as I said before, there is only one way to find out and thats to get them drums off to know for sure I am afraid. Might be only something simple. If it is the cylinders you may be able to get one from a scrappy, I know its not ideal and a bit risky, but if you want to save a few cents might be an option, tho the new ones would be better.


P.S Oh I didn't read your earlier thread where you said the AP did check it, sorry.

I did that and was told again after having (I Hope) the car checked that it was a leak in the cylinder and that the total cost for repair would be E.200 and that the
sidelamps that failed also would be replaced free of charge.



Is this the car?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hyundai_Atos_front_20080328.jpg#filelinks

Pattylou

Hi Jimmy, about the checking bit, well while I was speaking to the mechanic on the telephone , I asked if I could have a free check to check exactly what the problem was, and he told me to bring the car to the garage to check it , to leave it for a couple of hours. I brought the car to the garage and there was a blue car on the ramp being serviced, went away for about 2 hours returned and the blue car was still on the ramp with my car parked in front of it on the ground. He came out to me and told me he had checked the car and it was a cylinder leak I asked him, how come there was not sign of a leak during the test and he told me it would be in the inside on the pads. He was a very nice guy but would he really have taken down the blue car( that he would have been paid to service) and put my car there and checked it? I cannot say.


The car in the picture? Yes that's my BABY only mine is RED.

jimmyw

MMMMM!! Well I suppose he could have checked them by just jacking up the car and take off the wheel. Pads?, was it on the back or front they checked? If it was the back I would have thought that it would be drum brakes on such a small car.

Pattylou

Hi Jimmy, Yes, he could have done that and that would be fantastic if he did, it would be wonderful to be certain what the problem was for definite.

Its a rear brake imbalance and the Engine is:

Type; Dual hydraulic with brake booster.
Front brake type: Solid disc
Rear Brake type: Drum.
Parking Brake: Cable operated on rear wheel.

He told me that the cyliner was leaking. It would take E200 (for 2) to repair with
the sidelights in for free.

lollypop41

Quigs Snr wrote: »

All Advance staff get bonuses based on extra stuff they convince you to get done. Plus they do not hire proper mechanics, their main one left not so long ago apart from that they have an apprentice or two and a few manual laborours for want of a better term, all of whom depend on what they can convince you to get done to bring their pay up to something you can actually live on. I wouldn't bother if I were you. Its much the same as the scientologists "free personality test" years ago, they just want you in the door so they can get closer to your wallet !

Just get the NCT done, its the best value in town. My bro's a mechanic and I am still sending mine in on Friday to see what it fails on..

this is actually really annoying me i personally know the staff in advance and i can tell you they do not get extra money for talkin people into gettin things they dont need and if they did they would be in trouble for it i really think people should not be allowed post things about people unless they have prof to back it up

jimmyw

Pattylou wrote: »

Hi Jimmy, Yes, he could have done that and that would be fantastic if he did, it would be wonderful to be certain what the problem was for definite.

Its a rear brake imbalance and the Engine is:

Type; Dual hydraulic with brake booster.
Front brake type: Solid disc
Rear Brake type: Drum.
Parking Brake: Cable operated on rear wheel.

He told me that the cylinder was leaking. It would take E200 (for 2) to repair with
the sidelights in for free.

Yeah I was thinking it would be drum brakes on the rear. If it was me I would like to get a second opinion but I know you dont want to be throwing money away. I would be looking at them myself and not go to any garage, but everyone is not like me. If the handbrake is ok it could well be the cylinder, and not worn shoes for instant, tho how could both cylinders need replacing? unlikely both are leaking.

Pattylou

Thank you Jimmy and thank you Lollypop4

Jimmy:
Why two cylinders, well I have checked that out and it appears 'Standard Practice' for repairs to brakes that if one thing has gone on one side, it needs to be repaired on the other side as well. I am happy with that, and cylinders are not expensive, it's the labour that's expensive, far more expensive than the parts by far. I suppose what threw me was the fact that he was able to tell me on the telephone immeditely what was wrong, when it could have been one of many things. I asked him how he could be so certain and he said, he just KNEW. I asked him could I bring the car up to him for him to confirm what he knew as I needed an exact diognosis and he asked e to leave the car up with im for a couple of hours and he would do exactly that. I did that and he told me when I came back to the car that it WAS a leaking cylinder and the cost would be E200 with the sidelights thrown in. He was very polite and professional. He left me his card with the price and what was wrong on it and let me go. He could'nt have been nicer. 100% for his treatment of me. I am checking out prices at the moment for the same job at this moment. He's coming in at the higher end. But if his is correct, I would let him do the job, because he was so nice to me. I am getting a second opinion on Tuesday, and maybe a third opinion. If his is correct, I will go with him.

Lollypop4.

Yes it appears that everyone is out to get Advance Pitstop and their staff. but I did exactly as Quigs Snr suggested. I did go to Fast Fit for their preNCT check and they told me my car was perfect I then went along and did the test and failed. I expected the NCT to be a little more specific as to exactly what was wrong so I could get it fixed before my retest but all they could tell me in broken english was that there was an imbalance, they didn't know the cause and get a mechanic So much for that, they might as well have told me that the earth was somewhere in the solar system for all the help that was. At this stage of the game, I am sorry that I didn't go to ADVANCE PITSTOP before my NCT and had a free check from them and then had my NCT not the other way around.

jimmyw

Why two cylinders, well I have checked that out and it appears 'Standard Practice' for repairs to brakes that if one thing has gone on one side, it needs to be repaired on the other side as well. I am happy with that, and cylinders are not expensive, it's the labour that's expensive, far more expensive than the parts by far. I suppose what threw me was the fact that he was able to tell me on the telephone immeditely what was wrong, when it could have been one of many things. I asked him how he could be so certain and he said, he just KNEW. I asked him could I bring the car up to him for him to confirm what he knew as I needed an exact diognosis and he asked e to leave the car up with im for a couple of hours and he would do exactly that. I did that and he told me when I came back to the car that it WAS a leaking cylinder and the cost would be E200 with the sidelights thrown in. He was very polite and professional. He left me his card with the price and what was wrong on it and let me go. He could'nt have been nicer. 100% for his treatment of me. I am checking out prices at the moment for the same job at this moment. He's coming in at the higher end. But if his is correct, I would let him do the job, because he was so nice to me. I am getting a second opinion on Tuesday, and maybe a third opinion. If his is correct, I will go with him.


Sorry you must be sick of me!:o, but what was wrong with the sidelights? A bulb? if it is, its not to difficult to change a bulb so its not really a sacrifice on their part! considering they are charging you 200 quid for the rest. I found the words "I just knew" to be abit a arrogant to be honest. They might have an idea but they could not know for sure until the drum was off. I do agree with you that its the labour that drives up the price and not always the part/s them selves.If they were on the high side price wise, and you got a cheaper quote, why would you go with AP? You might detect a certain level of cynicism:D;) on my part, but with me its guilty until proven innocent:), Sorry again for that.

Pattylou

Hi Jimmy, Well I certainly am not sick of you:D It has been wonderful to have had someone to discuss this with and have a look at all aspects of the problem and clear my head. Yes you are right, why would I go with him is he is going to cost E50 more than anyone else. Silly me, but ........if it turns out in the end that he was correct, then that tells me that there is a likelyhood that others knew the answer as well but wouldn't commit themselves, also remember that he told me over the phone, no commitment, I didn't have to take his word.

On the other hand, if my problem was so easy to diagnoise, why when I failed my NCT est didn't the NCT tester just tell me I had a leaking cylinder go get it fixed? I did notice that none of the guys testing the cars there were all foreign and pretended not to speak English. All my man could say to me was don't know...mechanic. So much for the NCT helping you as it states in the NCT manual that they would guide you on your repairs. I'm afraid the NCT is a bit of a money maker. If I get my car fixed and I fail again, I am not returning a third time like my friend who went for her third test last saturday.

Maybe the NCT testers in the country are different from Dublin, but at least if you go for a pretest with Advance you get it free and I would NOW recommend people go get the free test, don't get anything fixed and go straight and do your test at least if they diognoised a proble and you then fail your test you can nail down the NCT failer and ask questions and get his oponion, If you go and do your test without a pre-test and you are expecting to get it, you get such a shock that you are not able to open your mouth.:eek:

jimmyw

I am sure everyone will tell you stories about the ncts and the inconsistencies with regard to test results, but to be fair they are only there to test the car and not tell anyone what the problem is and the problem might not be evident from the outside anyway and its the machine that tells them that there is a problem. There are some foreign people in the Waterford centre down here, but there are also Irish people aswell.You said that you got a pre-test with quick-fit, well I once had to get a section of exhaust on my Honda civic a few years back and they done it(wont say where or the mods might be after me;)) and when I came home I noticed that it was leaking and had to go back the next day to sort it.They did do it no problem but it was hardly a professional job.I like to know when you get the second opinion, but I would not say anything about the other diagnosis to them to be sure.


P.S I do not work for the ncts:)

Pattylou

Thank you Jimmy, Ha Ha, I am so sorry that you don't work for the NCT, wouldn't that have been great. As you suggested I will keep my mouth shut to the mechanics I meet. But to get back to the question should you go and have you NCT done first and not bother with the Pretest, I would suggest GOING for a Pretest if the garage is offering it Free, what have you got to lose, but one should'nt assume that when they give you a free health bill...like Quickfix gave me, that you will pass your test.After they gave my car the all clear, I failed the NCT on my brakes, not exactly a small thing. That's because the Garage's only do a five point check and it's just a quick scan. But if it's free , why not.
One thing for sure, is that if you fail you NCT, you will certainly become motivated to learn a thing or two about your car. Before I failed, I knew nothing about my car. I never read the Handbook, the advice the Handbook gave me about how to maintain my car. I knew nothing about brakes, or the braking system on my car. So for the E50 I have learn't so much valuable information about the car I'm driving so I'm beginning to think that there should be classes in the VEC schools during the evening for about 10 weeks for people could go to and learn about the car and what to look out for...Maybe the NCT could run such a course for Free for the Irish people.:D Sorry Jimmy, I'm ranting now....

freebird23

i have been reading this with great intrest, i worked in garage for few years. some things that go wrong in cars are common so for him to say over the phone its the cylinder maby because he has come accros it before. but yes he is still wrong to say so. there are adjusters inside the hub and as the break wears the adjusters compensate for this. there are more then one reason for breaks behaving like yours failing the test.

Pattylou

Hi Freebird 23, Thanks for reading all about my car. WoW a Mechanic on board......is this my lucky day.

OK, Firbird, just to refresh your memory on what exactly the fail was on NCT sheet.

Rear Akle: Brake Effort Ovality
Nearside: .66kn 27%
Offside: 1.19kn 28%
Imbalance: 45%
FAIL /REFUSAL
Under the VISUAL SIGNS: None.

What I have been advised so far from reading the Boards.ie post.
1. Garage practice to change cylinders.
2. proportioning valve is the answer,
3.Fix new pads, drums,seals and anything else that needs replacing.
4.Brakes might just need tightening.

It is all so confusing to me. I am at the total mercy of the honesty of mechanics to tell be whats wrong. I would have no problem doing this is I had the lots of cash, I would just hand it over, but because money is tight I have to try as much as possible to just pay for what needs to be done.

Pattylou

Advice I'd like to give to people about to have their NCT Test:

1. Lights. People are so focused on the Headlights alignment, brake lights, indicators ect, and if these are ok they think they are safe. Wrong.
All these things were working on my car, but I had a FAIL/Refusal on my sidelamps one was not working. So don't forget to check your sidelights I didn't even think I had any.
2. On the day of your NCT, don't just leave your car at the NCT and go off for a smoke or coffee. Stay there and watch them checking your car through the window. I didn't, went off for a cup of coffee for 15min and my car was out when I came back and I am now thinking, as my car failed the brake test and there were no visual signs..did they visually look at the brake system at all. Were they just relying on their equipment readings, maybe that's why they could'nt even point me in the right direction. I suppose they can see through the window, who is watching them test...and if they dont see you there......
On my retest, I'm thinking of bringing my video camera and filming them recheck it, and if I fail again, I'll post it on Utube.:pac:

danjo-xx

Your turning into a right Inspector Morse, arn't you

Pattylou

You know Danjo, you could be right!!! My brother doesn't call me "Sherlock Homes" for nothing.........

jimmyw

Did you get your problem sorted out?

Pattylou

Hi Jimmy, thanks for asking. No, Mechanic No 2. has been hard to nail down, he keeps asking me to phone him, wont make a proper appointment. I thoned him this morning and he told me to phone him again at 3pm which I failed to do, it was raining hard here and I went out without his phone no.Anyway I made another appointment with a garage in sandyford tomorrow where the garage man said he would take a look at the car and give me an estimate. Nickemma Auto Repairs. I got the contact from a Latvian living next to me so I shall go and see what happens.

jimmyw

Oh right, dont like people giving me the runaround, been there wore the t-shirt .Well at least your getting it sorted. Hope you will have enough time left for the re-test, otherwise full test.;)

Pattylou

Retest is booked for the 18th November:cool: I hope to have it sorted by then!

Pattylou

:pac:Hi Jimmy,

Just to let you know, I got my car fixed and Serviced all for E190. I went on the Saturday, to 'Nickemma Auto Repairs, kellystown Road, Ticknock, Sandyford, dublin 14 .PH 087 9382975. The Manager Nicolai, who is from
Moldovia, asked me to bring the car up to check out the cause of the 'Brake Imbalance'. I brought the car up and the mechanics also from Moldovia, gage my car a thorough checkout and finally found the problem
'a leaking Cylinder' ( So the guy from Advanced WAS spot on) Anyway I asked how much and he told me that my 'Shoes' were ok on the car and that he would replace the 2 cylinders the next day when he had baught the parts. I went up and got them replaced, the old ones were packed and given back. they were a new set of cylinders as I say him unpack them from the box. The cost E110 and he told me E100 I was so happy with that so I ordered a full service asap. Next day went again and got a full Service E90. What I liked about them, is that I was allowed watch the whole procedure, ask questions, take photo's ect. that was the first time I ever got anything done from an Eastern European Company and I must say I was very impressed with the whole experience. I was going to post the photo's here, but wasn't able to do it. Pity. So Jimmy, that's it.
Test on 18th. thanks again for all your help.:D

jimmyw

Hi Patty, thanks for letting me know. Well as you say the guy in AP did actually check the car then;). I am glad you had a good experience with a garage, it makes a refreshing change to know that there are honest people out there, and at a good price too. I am sure you will have no problems on the 18th to past the retest, good luck, James.

Pattylou

Hi Jimmy, That's a lovely picture of a car you got in there! I wish I knew how you did that as I wanted to include the Guys from Nickemma Auto Repairs doing my car. Another thing for me to learn.

About Advance Pitstop, Well he saved me a lot of time telling me upfront that the cause of my 'Brake Inbalance' was a leaking cylinder. The price he gave of was E200 which came in at E100 more than the garage I went to. Now if he was going to change the 'Shoes' as well as the cylinders then the price was excellent. But unfortunatly, I knew so little about my car at the time that I didn't ask the question, did that price include the shoes as well? On the other hand, the Modovian's checked my shoes and told me that there was nothing wrong with them, so I did'nt need to change them. That meant I got my cylinders changed and a full service and 10E change. Big saving there.
I asked Nicolai the Manager of Nickemma, is it better to have your NCT first and he told me it was because that way you only needed to fix what was needed to Pass the retest.:cool:

jimmyw

Well I do agree with your mechanic about not doing the pre NCT because they are no guarantee that your car will pass, and you'll be wasting money. Don't mind about not asking the right questions, cause I have been messing about with cars for a good while and would like to think I know alot about the cars but when I do go to a garage, I don't always ask the right questions, and the brother says "why didnt you ask such and such you tit", so your OK. About the photos I think its not too hard, if your good at wallpapering cause there is some copying and pasting to do. First if you have a digital camera, I assume you can put them on the computer and when you have that done, go to a photo hosting site such as "photobucket.com" or "imageshack.us" websites and you should see a "browse" button and click there and go to where you have your photos stored, you can even re size them there then click on your photo you want and then click on the upload button and it will give you links after a few minutes. Then to copy them into your reply box just highlight one of the links and press the right mouse key and click on copy. Then go to your reply box and click on the right key again and click paste and bingo!! should be done. Hope that helps but might have missed something. I have a black saab like that type as the photo, but not a limo like that, but thought that pic was unusual