Men staring at chest!!

citytillidie

SarahSassy wrote: »

Not its not!!! It's just bad manners.

+1

Bad manners to stare and leer at a womans cleavage.

echosound

taconnol wrote: »

Wow that is some impressive selective quoting. You forgot to quote the bit where she said she was covered up.

Why do societies have manners? To make people feel more comfortable. Why is it rude to stare at a woman's chest (particularly in the workplace)? Because it makes the majority of women feel uncomfortable. So the best way to respond is to make the starer as uncomfortable as s/he is making you. Give them a taste of their own medicine, make them feel selfconscious & see how they like it.

As Windsock, there's a difference between looking & staring. The guy at the meeting was obviously staring enough to upset the OP & lead her to posting about it here.

I selectively quoted as that seems to me to be the answer as to why the dude was staring - did you read my post?

Sounds to me like he was trying to figure out what was different about her, and got locked into a bit of a stare as he thought. Not exactly tactful, but I do it too as per my post regarding different hairstyles/weight loss etc. I don't exactly walk round with no clothes on my midsection, belly and ass hanging out for all to see, but people can see the shape is different under the clothes, and focus on the area for longer than normal as they try to work out what's different. That was my point. Not some sort of evil plot to ignore where she said she was covered up.

Nevyn

It's not just rude it can also earn a person a written warning and up to dismissal as it can be consdiered sexual harassment in the work place.

Blush_01

I think echosound might have hit the nail on the head.

By the way, has nobody noticed the interchangability of staring and leering in this thread? The two are patently not the same thing.

Feckin' exaggerating PC culture.

BigglesMcGee

Thaedydal wrote: »

It's not just rude it can also earn a person a written warning and up to dismissal as it can be consdiered sexual harassment in the work place.

Not a chance. Show me some proof. of this ever happening.
People look at things that draw their eyes, big, small, different, ugly, nice.

How would your case go.

- He was staring at my chest.
- No i wasnt.

Sexual harasment - dismissed.


Its not like he was drooling over them and said tiiiiiits out loud now is it.

Macha

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

Not a chance. Show me some proof. of this ever happening.
People look at things that draw their eyes, big, small, different, ugly, nice.

How would your case go.

- He was staring at my chest.
- No i wasnt.

Sexual harasment - dismissed.


Its not like he was drooling over them and said tiiiiiits out loud now is it.

I particularly like the photo on this website:

http://www.safeworkers.co.uk/SexualHarassmentWork.html

Read down and you'll see that one form of sexual harassment is:
"Looking or staring at a person's body"

This is a UK site but Irish law closely follows UK law.

And yes if I continuously stared at someone who was small, ugly whatever then they would have ever right to be pissed off at me. Why? Because I would be making them uncomfortable.

And how could Thaedydal possibly give you an example of disciplinary action having been taken within the privacy of a HR department? Those things are not brought out in the public unless as part of a more serious case that goes to court. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

BigglesMcGee

You can post all the links about harassment you like.

Show me some proof of anyone ever getting disciplined for looking at a part of another persons body.

I say its never hapened in this country ever.

Simple fact is people stare. It happens. It may or may not be becuse they find you attractive or repulsive or maybe they are just blanking, they just stare. Get over it.

No need to get all PC and turn it into a huge issue.
If it bothers you mention it. They may not have been staring for the reasons you think at all.

2 stroke

I always wondered why girls always click their fingers in front of their boobage.

Seriously though, Congratulations Q. Sounds like you are at that stage where the female body is at is most attractive but you're not exactly feeling sexy.

cuckoo

BigglesMcGee wrote: »

Simple fact is people stare. It happens. It may or may not be becuse they find you attractive or repulsive or maybe they are just blanking, they just stare. Get over it.

The 'blank my eyes have to rest somewhere' stare is very different from a 'hey, boobies! cool!' stare, and then again there's the 'i'm taking a mental picture for my solo pleasure tonight in my scary, serial killer style home' stare.

Consider the new diet coke ad with the three women pretending the lift is broken so they can be rescued by the guy in the tight white top. :rolleyes: Those women eat him alive with their suggestive, aggressive stares.

Dragan

No offence, but if you walk around with clevage showing it is going to get looked at.

Plain and simple, no real point in complaining about it.

Quality

Dragan wrote: »

No offence, but if you walk around with clevage showing it is going to get looked at.

Plain and simple, no real point in complaining about it.

Ok, I will say it again for the ones who were a bit slow at catching it the first time round!!!:rolleyes:



My boobs were covered..... I was wearing a white shirt..... It was buttoned up respectably..... I did not have anything hanging out.... The material was not tight fitting.....

Sherifu

Quality wrote: »

My boobs were covered..... I was wearing a white shirt..... It was buttoned up respectably..... I did not have anything hanging out.... The material was not tight fitting.....

Thanks for destroying my mental image.

Nevyn

cuckoo wrote: »

The 'blank my eyes have to rest somewhere' stare is very different from a 'hey, boobies! cool!' stare, and then again there's the 'i'm taking a mental picture for my solo pleasure tonight in my scary, serial killer style home' stare.

And do you know how sexual harassment is measured ?
By the impact on the person.

A person can do the resting of thier eyes on the wall not on a persons boobage esp in a work environment.

cuckoo wrote: »

Consider the new diet coke ad with the three women pretending the lift is broken so they can be rescued by the guy in the tight white top. :rolleyes: Those women eat him alive with their suggestive, aggressive stares.

And he if they made him feel uncomfortable in is place of work then yes he should put in a complaint.

Dragan wrote:

No offence, but if you walk around with clevage showing it is going to get looked at.

Plain and simple, no real point in complaining about it.

So what else then, bring back the bustle ?

Go back to before the 80s where women were required to wear thier hair tied up or in a head scarf in church for modesty incase men stare at them ?

Nah sod that why not go the whole hog and make work wear for women the modren hijab not the full burka mind but more along the lines of


But then again when women were covered from head to toe in the victorian era the flash of an ankle or calf was too distracting for men never mind seeing a young ladies knees.

Look there are things which are just not on in a work place and making someone uncomfortable by staring unwittingly or not at their tits, arse or crotch is one of them.

It's something both genders have to learn to do.

Dragan

Quality wrote: »

My boobs were covered..... I was wearing a white shirt..... It was buttoned up respectably..... I did not have anything hanging out.... The material was not tight fitting.....

Aplologies. I'm getting nothing but database errors trying to browse today so didn't read the whole thread.

My bad.

If that is the case, and it was completely covered, then he was hardly staring at your chest, just in the general direction of your chest.

A lot of people have trouble with eye contact and it may have been that? I think you are reaching that he was learing if there was nothing on display to be honest.

Dragan

Thaedydal wrote: »

So what else then, bring back the bustle ?

No.......we can all just grow up a little bit. Realise that things are the way they are and if you go around with flesh on display then it is going to get looked at.

In all seriousness, that is kind of like me complaining about being stared at when i am in work, when i am out and about on the street. I'm a big guy, i would even venture to say i am relatively handsome, and i like to wear my well fitted t-shirts and shirts. I get stared at because of this.

Now then, i'm sure many people will think "ah shut up, your a man" but that is not the issue. The issue is that i choose to dress the way i dress and look the way i look and will deal with the comeback of that, be it leering stares off the ladies ( no offence ladies, but you folk do it as well ) or general agro off dudes who are so insecure the feel the need to comment on how other people dress.

Is it right that you gotta put up with this ****? Nope, but it's the way it is. And if the worst thing that i have to complain about any given day is that someone is given my arms a complimentary leer then i'm going to call that a pretty good day.

Mr. Presentable

Quality wrote: »

Ok, I will say it again for the ones who were a bit slow at catching it the first time round!!!:rolleyes:



My boobs were covered..... I was wearing a white shirt..... It was buttoned up respectably..... I did not have anything hanging out.... The material was not tight fitting.....

So not staring at your chest then, if it cannot be seen. Perhaps he was checking for new material for his duvet cover........

The Sweeper

I don't wear low-cut tops that show cleavage. I also don't wear shapeless sacks. I wear well-tailored, fitted clothing and I have boobs.

Glance at boobs: fine.
Look outright at boobs: fine if you look away.
Address your conversation to my boobs: not fine.
Ask questions to my face and then stare at my boobs while I reply: not fine.

Solution: when someone is staring at my boobs - really staring - I interrupt myself, look down and say "Oh sorry, have I spilled something on my shirt?"

Mr. Presentable

Thaedydal wrote: »

It's not just rude it can also earn a person a written warning and up to dismissal as it can be considered sexual harassment in the work place.

But that's just subjective and vague - like saying "may reduce your cholesterol as part of...."

Problem is, what you consider sexual harrassment may differ from my definition, and hers, and his. I've never heard of someone being disciplined or prosecuted for looking at another person.

Loomis

Thaedydal wrote: »

It's not just rude it can also earn a person a written warning and up to dismissal as it can be consdiered sexual harassment in the work place.

Thaedydal wrote: »

And do you know how sexual harassment is measured ?
By the impact on the person.


And he if they made him feel uncomfortable in is place of work then yes he should put in a complaint.

It's something both genders have to learn to do.

I've read this thread interested but had no intention of posting until these few items made me think;
Staring at a woman's chest can be considered sexual harrassment. But sexual harrassment is measured by the impact of the person on the receiving end. And then there's the idea of men being on the receiving end of a stare.
Basically my first thought when I read staring would be considered sexual harrassment is I don't see it working. Because I don't see it being taken as an equal issue with the two sexes. If a woman complains that a guy stared at her chest the guy could get in ****. But if a guy said a woman stared at his ass I can't see the same happening. Mostly because I can't see a guy complaining about it. If you don't see the guy stare is it still offensive? You can't really complain if you don't see it since it's not making you uncomfortable? Correct? So the infringement here is getting caught, not the actual staring/leering. Just a thought.
Which leads to my other musings...basically the idea of staring causing offense is a female issue in my opinion. Could be wrong but I really don't think many men at all would give a toss who was looking at them, in what way, or for how long.

Macha

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

I've read this thread interested but had no intention of posting until these few items made me think;
Staring at a woman's chest can be considered sexual harrassment. But sexual harrassment is measured by the impact of the person on the receiving end. And then there's the idea of men being on the receiving end of a stare.
Basically my first thought when I read staring would be considered sexual harrassment is I don't see it working. Because I don't see it being taken as an equal issue with the two sexes. If a woman complains that a guy stared at her chest the guy could get in ****. But if a guy said a woman stared at his ass I can't see the same happening. Mostly because I can't see a guy complaining about it. If you don't see the guy stare is it still offensive? You can't really complain if you don't see it since it's not making you uncomfortable? Correct? So the infringement here is getting caught, not the actual staring/leering. Just a thought.
Which leads to my other musings...basically the idea of staring causing offense is a female issue in my opinion. Could be wrong but I really don't think many men at all would give a toss who was looking at them, in what way, or for how long.

On your point about getting caught, I think I've said it about 5 times now that the point of the laws on sexual harassment & manners in general are to ensure that people don't feel uncomfortable, especially in a work environment where they have to spend large amounts of time. Therefore yes it is about being 'caught' - it's about doing it in a way that makes the other person notice and feel uncomfortable and self-conscious.

In response to people saying that he could not have been looking at her chest because it was covered - are you taking the p*ss? You think a guy has never looked at the ass of a girl in jeans walking down the street? According to your logic he couldn't have - sorry I just don't follow.

I think that women are very aware that their bodies are constantly under surveillance, by both men and women. So maybe I personally would be more conscious of people having a gawk than a man would? I think this sentence sums it up by John Berger: "Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at" - and for most, it isn't a very nice feeling. The least one can expect is that this doesn't happen within the working environment, whatever about in other less formal situations.

MLE

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

I've read this thread interested but had no intention of posting until these few items made me think;
Staring at a woman's chest can be considered sexual harrassment. But sexual harrassment is measured by the impact of the person on the receiving end. And then there's the idea of men being on the receiving end of a stare.
Basically my first thought when I read staring would be considered sexual harrassment is I don't see it working. Because I don't see it being taken as an equal issue with the two sexes. If a woman complains that a guy stared at her chest the guy could get in ****. But if a guy said a woman stared at his ass I can't see the same happening. Mostly because I can't see a guy complaining about it. If you don't see the guy stare is it still offensive? You can't really complain if you don't see it since it's not making you uncomfortable? Correct? So the infringement here is getting caught, not the actual staring/leering. Just a thought.
Which leads to my other musings...basically the idea of staring causing offense is a female issue in my opinion. Could be wrong but I really don't think many men at all would give a toss who was looking at them, in what way, or for how long.

I disagree that a man wouldnt give a toss who was looking at them. If a woman or another man was staring at a mans crotch for example Im sure it would make a man feel very uncomfortable and in particular in a business environment. The reason you don't think its a big deal is probably because it has never happened to you and it isnt as common this sort of thing happening to men, as men are generally speaking, the culprits in this sort of thing.

And the stuff about if you dont see the guy staring is it still offensive? Thats akin to if a tree falls in the wood does it still make a noise. Of course you wouldnt take offense if you dont notice, How could you, you didnt notice. But that doesnt mean that you wouldnt take offense if you saw the act.

Dragan

taconnol wrote: »

In response to people saying that he could not have been looking at her chest because it was covered - are you taking the p*ss? You think a guy has never looked at the ass of a girl in jeans walking down the street? According to your logic he couldn't have - sorry I just don't follow.

Given the description the OP has given of how she was dressed, everthing covered, nothing tight fitting....then yes.

There is a mahoosive difference between jeans and a lose shirt, no?

daveywavey08

Well, the chances are that you are fairly ugly so you wouldn't blame him for looking at your chest. Probably your only redeeming feature

Loomis

MLE wrote: »

And the stuff about if you dont see the guy staring is it still offensive? Thats akin to if a tree falls in the wood does it still make a noise. Of course you wouldnt take offense if you dont notice, How could you, you didnt notice. But that doesnt mean that you wouldnt take offense if you saw the act.

My point was would you care if a guy is as pervy as can be so long as you don't see him acting this way? Or that no one sees him for that matter. Just taking people up on the fact they said the fact is being made feel uncomfortable rather than the leering itself. I know some people did say its wrong in work place, that's fine. Just posed the question. If no one sees, no matter how bad the perving is, is there any harm and would you care. That was my question.

WindSock

daveywayvey08 banned

vibe666

this isn't a defence of men staring at women's boobs, I've always been a bit of a feminist (odd for a bloke I know, but blame my mum) and I agree that it's bad and wrong to do it, but just recently I can't stop myself.

i lived in tenerife for years with baps a plenty out all over the shop and never batted an eyelid but since moving to ireland and hitting 30 (not sure if it was one or both of those things triggered it) I'm finding myself increasingly unable to stop checking out boobs that are on display.

i honestly don't know what it is that's doing it.

I've always considered myself a 'nice guy', not at all a sleaze bag and plenty of girls have commented on my nice guyishness (yes it's a word!) esp. where women are involved and I will and have more than a couple of times defended a woman's honour to the last, even getting my azz severely kicked for my trouble.

i've got a g/f (for 6+ years) and have easy access to as much boobage as I can handle and i'd never in a million years dream of being unfaithful to her, we're very much in love and i intend to marry, have kids and grow old with her so I'm lost on the reasons for my sudden mammary fascination.

so, from myself at least my humblest and most sincere apologies for staring and if you ever catch me glancing at your chest please don't be offended and know that I'm trying really hard not to do it and maybe just try and think of it as a downpayment on the possible future defence of your honour.

Nevyn

It's also context, if a person is trying to interact with a person in a professional manner in a work enviroment or is interactiong with a group of people in a work enviroment and someone's behaviour shows lack of respect for them and is undermining them and there for interfering with them being able to do thier job then it's well out of order, so much so there are work codes of conducts about it.

This applies to both genders and I have seen it just as bad in a predominatly female work enviroment.

sparkyjo

i am a man and if i see a woman with big boobs or boobs basically on show i will look and it is not really my fault if i didn't look i would class my self as gay

now if a woman seen a man wearing a pair of tight shorts i know you would look just for the sake of it but the way i see it is if you have a problem with it you should not wear clothes that allow this to happen easily sorted and you don't have to blame anyone else

its great women dress to be seen but if they notice a guy looking it is classed as the end of the world

i know i might offend some women but not the ones who think reasonably and the sure the rest who really care

tbh

it's evolution. big boobs = good mother material. We think we're really sophisticated, but really all we are is meat, a central nervous system and electricity.

Macha

Dragan wrote: »

Given the description the OP has given of how she was dressed, everthing covered, nothing tight fitting....then yes.

There is a mahoosive difference between jeans and a lose shirt, no?

Well..you can have loose jeans? *The sound of hairs being split*

Actually slightly OT but I was walking down Grafton St and the guy in front of me had his jeans so loose his ass was literally hanging out the top. Not a good look (and right in your face, before the oh-so-smart posts begin of 'oh what a hypocrite, why were you looking?')