Whats this I'm hearing about the Gov running out of road money and farming out PPPs?

Chris_533976

Ok I dont like the sounds of this Is this newspaper hype or is there truth to it?

I cant access the full article as its on a subscriber only site

State runs out of cash for N17
Thu 10th April 2008
Private developers to be asked to step in

PRIVATE developers will now be asked to construct a large section of the proposed new N17 — and this is the only realistic possibility of getting the project off the ground within the next few years.

The Department of Transport cannot fund the construction of the road between Galway and Claremorris — including the Tuam bypass — from current resources.

And now they are going cap in hand to the private sector who they hope can begin work on the road by 2010 in the hope of having it completed three years later. It is the first indication that funding for major capital roads projects is drying up and now developers are being asked to come to the rescue.

In return, the successful tender will be paid for the project over a 25 year period but will make substantial profits over that extended period. The National Road Authority is expected to announce over the coming days that the N17 from Claremorris to the superjunction at Rathmorrissey near Athenry will be constructed on a public private partnership arrangement.

It means that advertisements will be placed in the national Press over the coming months seeking expressions of interest in constructing the 52 kilometre stretch of road — estimated to cost in the region of €250 million.

It will also include the construction of the Tuam bypass, which has been dogged by delays for the past four years and has resulted in ................

http://www.galwaynews.ie/3376-state-runs-out-cash-n17

Anyone heard more or has the full article?

ardmacha

Something like this is inevitable. While the national debt is low etc, the public finances have taken a rapid turn for the worst, as all of that stamp duty has disappeared. While can make a case for borrowing for capital expenditure, people will jump and down if the borrowing goes over the limit for the Euro and so on. So a bit of financial engineering does the job, get a PPP and pay it back, even if it costs more in the long run. Not great, but not the end, a lot of people driving on the new road will have bought their cars with similarly silly arrangements.

AlekSmart

Interesting Chris,but hardly surprising

Just because nice Mr Aherne is bowing out does not necessarily mean the collapse of the old order.

It a little like snatching victory from the jaws of defeat,even though the dogs in the street can recognise how the country is fast running out of money (and creditworthiness)....but hey !!....Our governing party has a long and proud tradition of supporting it`s supporters and by golly the PPP and it`s spin-off the Tolled Road will provide a nice little Playtex indeed..... :eek:

Rawr

Why do I terrible images in my mind of a Toll Plaza on a National road?

DWCommuter

I don't know if this is true, but it wouldn't surprise me. It concurs with what I have ranted about, in relation to transport projects, for years now. Those rants were based on reading the business pages of broadsheets for years and examining their fortune telling capabilities. One only has to look at international history to see that we made a pigs mickey out of it over here.

A railway to Navan can be built, but all passengers must put money in a slot at Dunboyne if they want to go on to Navan.:D

Yes I know Im a doomsday character that can only rely on time to prove me correct. Sadly I would rather be wrong.

Overall, the signs for T21 are ominous, despite the spin from Government. We'll get the inter urbans and maybe a Metro. The WRC will see a piece of the action. The rest may go to hell in a little green boat. But I could be wrong.

nordydan

The Tuam Bypass has been upgraded to 2+2. WOnder what the plans are for Tuam to Claremorris?

Galway - Claremoris Motorway anyone???

DWCommuter

But lets not forget that there may not be enough traffic to make it worthwhile for a PPP.

invincibleirish

Not very surprising, will the West be able to handle the concept of Tolls though?

TBH i think Tolls will be necessary anyway in the next few years as public finances decline.

How about the N20 project becoming a PPP?

AlekSmart

An invincibleirish quote :

" TBH i think Tolls will be necessary anyway in the next few years as public finances decline." End.

This may indeed be true and Tolls are not of themselves the work of the Devil,but in what passes for a Democratic Ireland the concept is already being sullied by the reality of the West-Link fiasco. :mad:

Its hardly surprising the Public Finances are in decline when one sees how they were effictively turned into private money in the blink of an eye.. :eek:

The entire sorry saga of the wilful negligence with which the M50/WestLink project was approached is beyond excuse...even for a society which has perfected the art of excusing almost every strain of abberant behaviour.

For crying out loud,the brazen nature of how the administrative elite arrived at such a "Sweet" deal for National Toll Roads and the truly incredible contract which resulted is cause enough for a total secession from any and all so called contractual obligations under this flawed agreement.

At this point folowing the hugely generous buy-out of NTR`s interest,this State should be hanging it`s head in shame whilst declaring the West-Link facility a public thoroughfare once more,with NO TOLL whatever.

I would suggest that Toll Freedom in perpetuity would just about compensate Taxpayers and Motorists for the years of what many might call Robbery at the hands of a well connected private company.

I recall walking across the newly completed West-Link bridge reading from an expensively produced freesheet which extolled the genius stature of Tom Roche and essentially elevated the man to superhero status...which in financial terms is exactly what he and his company actually became,courtesy of a munificent administration.

NTR has had it`s payday,and that should now end...instead we now see a new raft of snouts all lining up to poke their noses in the public trough....however I`ll bet there`s some familiar names croppng up on the shareholders rolls even of those continental groupings eager to get a piece of the Irish action...

Victor

Rawr wrote: »

Why do I terrible images in my mind of a Toll Plaza on a National road?

I think it will be like Metro North, with the developer responsible for maintenance for the period and the government paying an availability fee.

Tolls would be unlikely to repay it in 20 years, unless there was a huge chunk paid by the government.

Note that in many PPP contracts, the government has paid for the land and ancillary costs, while the franchise holder only pays for construction, maintenance and operations.

Danno

Put up a toll with a countdown clock on it. Each €2 that goes in reduces the debt. Every one can see that their toll is going towards repaying for the road, not lining the pockets of some consortium.

D'Peoples Voice

DWCommuter wrote: »

But lets not forget that there may not be enough traffic to make it worthwhile for a PPP.

Even better, there is no point in the gov sinking money into an under-utilised road, when there are more deserving projects in the country.
Prioritise, Prioritise, Prioritise!!!!!!!!
If the country (not local area) is not suffering adversely in its GDP growth rate because of this road, lets the people who want it pay for it!!

rekrow

invincibleirish wrote: »

Not very surprising, will the West be able to handle the concept of Tolls though?

"The West" has no choice. Already the most expensive route from Dublin
Dublin to:
Belfast M1 1.80
Cavan M3 2.60
Sligo N/M4 2.70
Galway N/M6 4.30*
Limerick M7 1.60*
Cork M8 3.40*
Waterford M9 Free
Wexford N/M11 Free

* Based on current draft tolling

corktina

my view on tolls are that they should be more widely spread so that EVERYONE pays a reasonable amount towards their actual usage...after all you wouldnt expect to ride the train for free would you?. As there is always an alternative route (which is usually the original road with less traffic on it) I cant really see cause to complain about Toll Roads.

1huge1

invincibleirish wrote: »

Not very surprising, will the West be able to handle the concept of Tolls though?

TBH i think Tolls will be necessary anyway in the next few years as public finances decline.

How about the N20 project becoming a PPP?

I wouldn't mind the N20 becoming a toll road, considering the state its in at the moment I'd gladly pay €2 if it was a motorway.

invincibleirish

1huge1 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind the N20 becoming a toll road, considering the state its in at the moment I'd gladly pay €2 if it was a motorway.

Doubt the Hauliers would mind paying a toll though?

1huge1

invincibleirish wrote: »

Doubt the Hauliers would mind paying a toll though?

I suppose not, but seeing as I live on the old cork road 20mins from Mitchelstown I've only used the N20 a handful of times, even if it was motorway I wouldn't use it because the N8 is so close.

If only the government would consider just extending the N8 from Mitchelltown to Limerick.

spacetweek

If the OP's rubbish article is referring to this, mentioned here, then this is a storm in a teacup.

All the NRA are saying is that they intend using private finance to complete the Atlantic corridor, a project that consists of loads of expensive motorways. They've always maintained that they intended bringing private money in to accelerate their works pipeline. Many of the Interurban program has been financed this way and this is just part of that.