Motorway question

PRND

Just wondering if any traffic cops on here patrolling the motorway would ever pull over drivers who sit in the overtaking lane beneath the speed limit or else at a speed less than that in the driving lane.

It seems that ignorance truly is bliss with these drivers and I'd like to think that someone is pointing out their dangerous behaviour to them.

Eru

PRND wrote: »

Just wondering if any traffic cops on here patrolling the motorway would ever pull over drivers who sit in the overtaking lane beneath the speed limit or else at a speed less than that in the driving lane.

It seems that ignorance truly is bliss with these drivers and I'd like to think that someone is pointing out their dangerous behaviour to them.

There is no such thing as an overtaking lane just 2 lanes. The outside lane has become known, overtime as the overtaking or fast lane however thats not legal.

It doesnt become an offence unless your delaying other traffic while failing to make progress. IE if they are delaying you while you are still within they speedlimit they are obliged to pull over if safe but if they are going the speedlimit then how are they delaying you unless your speeding?

You also have to consider other factors, you should not be going the max legal limit on busy traffic or/and in bad weather. Its by far the more dangerous to be up someones ass flashing and beeping them.

Random

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

There is no such thing as an overtaking lane just 2 lanes. The outside lane has become known, overtime as the overtaking or fast lane however thats not legal.

It doesnt become an offence unless your delaying other traffic while failing to make progress. IE if they are delaying you while you are still within they speedlimit they are obliged to pull over if safe but if they are going the speedlimit then how are they delaying you unless your speeding?

You also have to consider other factors, you should not be going the max legal limit on busy traffic or/and in bad weather. Its by far the more dangerous to be up someones ass flashing and beeping them.

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

ManofMunster

people aren't aware this lane is an over-taking lane. wrecks my head when they just sit there for no good reason. what are you supposed to do? overtaking on the inside isn't allowed. and you're not supposed to flash lights or beep at these morons. in any case, in my experience, it just makes them more determined to sit there and hold up traffic. it's a joke.

forget wasting money on all those ads about the two second rule. that's just common sense. they should have ads telling people to read their rules of the road and alert them to the fact that the outside lane on a motorway is an overtaking lane only. and that yellow boxes should only be used if you can get out the far side or are turning right. and that the rules of the road apply to cyclists also etc etc...

Eru

ManofMunster wrote: »

people aren't aware this lane is an over-taking lane. wrecks my head when they just sit there for no good reason. what are you supposed to do? overtaking on the inside isn't allowed. and you're not supposed to flash lights or beep at these morons. in any case, in my experience, it just makes them more determined to sit there and hold up traffic. it's a joke.

forget wasting money on all those ads about the two second rule. that's just common sense. they should have ads telling people to read their rules of the road and alert them to the fact that the outside lane on a motorway is an overtaking lane only. and that yellow boxes should only be used if you can get out the far side or are turning right. and that the rules of the road apply to cyclists also etc etc...

Its NOT an overtaking lane, the rules of the road are a safety, common sense and courtesy thing not legal. For example, what defines 'slow moving'? what speed do you need to be doing to qualify as 'slow moving'? how many cfars in a row means 'queing'? There are situations where you may or may not use the outside lane however it is not restricted to overtaking only. Read the full webpage you posted as it also states when you can use it beyond overtaking.

And you CAN overtake using the inside lane on a motorway. You cannot overtake on the inside on a single lane road.
Again, read the full site for occasions where you can. All your doing is changing lanes twice. If the car in the right lane is doing 80 in a 120 zone no one can go faster than him? That doesnt make sense.

BTW, I do agree with you. I dont like people sitting there ignoring traffic behind them and blocking a lane that could be moving faster all Im saying is they are not breaking the law just because they stay there only when they delay you by going well under the limit and not pulling in. Look at the M1, are we saying that traffic should be backed up to Finglas or Tallaght on the inside lane and the outside remains empty?

ManofMunster

the rules of the road state you're to overtake on the right only (i think it's taken for granted in this thread that in slow moving traffic people get annoyed with the city planners - rather than the guy in the inside lane who's moving at 6kmph to your 4kmph). the issue is when there's a clear road and some idiot is hogging the outside lane just coz he thinks there's nothing wrong with it. and if you were to overtake on the inside at 120kmph, you could try explaining to the gardai there was nothing illegal about it - it's just a rule of the road after all - but i think you'd be in trouble.

anyway my point being i just don't think people realise what they're doing is prohibited under the rules of the road.

Eru

ManofMunster wrote: »

the rules of the road state you're to overtake on the right only (i think it's taken for granted in this thread that in slow moving traffic people get annoyed with the city planners - rather than the guy in the inside lane who's moving at 6kmph to your 4kmph). the issue is when there's a clear road and some idiot is hogging the outside lane just coz he thinks there's nothing wrong with it. and if you were to overtake on the inside at 120kmph, you could try explaining to the gardai there was nothing illegal about it - it's just a rule of the road after all - but i think you'd be in trouble.

anyway my point being i just don't think people realise what they're doing is prohibited under the rules of the road.

If your too lazy to read the full rules then Im not going to copy and paste it for you. Again, doing 120 in the right lane is not illegal. If you read them you will see that. traffic in left doing 60 or whatever, you can drive in the right at 120. Guy in the right doing 60 and left is doing 60, yes he must pull over and let you pass.

And why in hells name would a Garda pull you over for changing lanes at the legal speed limit? Your not even making sense now. In fact, according to you your obliged to drive in the left lane so thinking you will be pulled over makes even less sense and begs the question what your doing in the right lane to be held up in the first place.

Ask yourself this simple question, have you ever, ever in your entire life seen or ever read or relaible heard about a person being stopped for staying in the right lane?

PRND

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Ask yourself this simple question, have you ever, ever in your entire life seen or ever read or relaible heard about a person being stopped for staying in the right lane?

Well that's my question.

And if not, why not?

ManofMunster

i'm with you, prnd.

and my point to carlito was the rules of the road evidently refer to the outside land as an overtaking lane and states that one should move back into lane one after overtaking. it's not for cruising along at 100kmph even though the inside lane is free - and people do it all the time. it also specifically mentions that you're to overtake only on the right.

so as i said, if you're tipping along at 120kmph, some moron is in the outside lane doing 90kmph even though the inside lane is free, then what are you supposed to do? overtaking on the left is prohibited; and flashing lights and beeping are frowned upon.

and as for his trivial point about the gardai, i've never seen them stop a cyclist for breaking a red light either - that hardly makes it ok.

deadwood

ManofMunster wrote: »

i'm with you, prnd.

and my point to carlito was the rules of the road evidently refer to the outside land as an overtaking lane and states that one should move back into lane one after overtaking. it's not for cruising along at 100kmph even though the inside lane is free - and people do it all the time. it also specifically mentions that you're to overtake only on the right.

so as i said, if you're tipping along at 120kmph, some moron is in the outside lane doing 90kmph even though the inside lane is free, then what are you supposed to do? overtaking on the left is prohibited; and flashing lights and beeping are frowned upon.

and as for his trivial point about the gardai, i've never seen them stop a cyclist for breaking a red light either - that hardly makes it ok.

Understandable frustration on your part, man of munster.
Before we all started driving like we were delivering a transplant kidney, drivers were instructed to give the car in front a flash to draw their attention to the fact you were about to overtake (indicators and conditions notwithstanding, of course). Unfortunately, giving the 90kph driver on the outside lane a flash is now regarded as road rage. It can be frustrating, but is waiting a minute really going to make that much difference to a journey time? In real terms, the differnece in 120 and 90 kph to a 200km journey will be very little. It's not as if our motorways are 100's of kilometres long - you're only going to be stuck behind a slow driver for a couple of miles at most.
Do like the cadburys caramel bunny said.. take it easy.

ManofMunster

will do, deadwood.

deep breaths and count to ten, eh?

deadwood

Pretty much. You know the ould fella in his Leyland Princess, eating his boiled sweets and admiring the fancy new two-lane motorway from the outside/overtaking/fast lane isn't the one the men in blue will be talking to!;)

King Ludvig

I was under the impression the the right hand lane IS an overtaking lane. ie you move into it to over take someone, and indicate back into the left after you have done so.

I was taught not to stay in the right hand lane, as its not a "fast lane".


Thats according to the RSA Rules of the road book anyway....

Eru

PRND wrote: »

Well that's my question.

And if not, why not?

Its not a crime is the answer.

Now seeing as your all still going on about the rules of the road:

Right lane: A, You must not drive a type of vehicle that is restricted to a maximum vehicle speed limit of 80 km/h or less in the traffic lane nearest the centre median of the motorway (the outside lane). An exception to this prohibition applies at any location where the speed limit is 80km/h or less
B, You may also use this lane to accommodate traffic merging from the left.
C, On a three-lane motorway, you may stay in this centre lane while there is slower moving traffic in lane 1.
D, You may use it, however, in exceptional circumstances when you cannot proceed in the inner lane because of a blockage ahead. You may also use it if you are at a location on a motorway where a speed limit of 80km/h or less applies.

Overtaking:
E, Overtake only on the right, unless traffic is travelling in slow moving queues and the traffic queue on your right is travelling more slowly than you are.
F, Signal and return to your original lane as soon as possible

All quoted directly from http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie
Now, in the case of A, it states you cannot use the right lane if your vehicle is not capable of the max limit. It does not state you cannot when your vehicle is capable of the limit. B through D are times when the rules of the road allow usage.
E states when you can overtake using the left lane and note in F, if you cannot drive in the right or overtake in the left why does it state origiinal lane and not 'right lane' or 'left lane'????

Now noting all this, the rules of the road also state "If you are asked by a Garda, you must give your name and address, the address where the vehicle is kept, the name and address of the vehicle owner, the vehicle's registration number and evidence of insurance, such as the name of your insurance company or a disc or motor insurance certificate. If there is no Garda at the scene, you must give this information to any person involved in the crash or, if requested, to an independent witness.
"If vehicles are blocking the roadway or posing a danger to other road users, the roadway should be marked and the vehicle should then be removed as soon as possible. "

So according to these rules, which you are convinced are law, you have to give your name, address and insurance to anyone who asks and should mark a public road and move cars prior to Garda arrival????? :eek:

Complete ****. First off only Gardai can demand these details regardless of the situation and secondly, marking the road is called criminal damage and doing so while moving the vehicles is called interfering with a crime scene! Only Gardai are authorised to mark crash scenes and only Gardai can instruct the moving of the vehicles. Im also not even sure that Gardai can demand all the details it says to provide but I need to check.

Again I state, the rules are a common sense and decency thing not law. What they say is not law and ignoring them is not, in itself, a crime just inconsiderate or stupid.

Yes its annoying when theres a git in the right lane doing the exact same speed as the guy beside him in the left, I agree fully with that. My point is thats its not illegal to sit there doing so provided they arent doing something stupid like 40, etc. If he is doing 120 then its perfectly OK and you shouldnt be in a position to go faster than him anyway.

I also agree that sitting there delaying the people behind you is inconsiderate especially when your well below the limit and theres a tailback being caused.

I suppose good practice, which is what the rules of the road are, is to return to the left lane thereby allowing other traffic to use the right lane and not forgetting emergency vehicles who will be going faster than 120.

I drive in the right lane most of the time for the simple reason that I will do 120 where possible and dont want to constantly get caught behind the many many people not doing the limit. If little boy racer wants to break the limit then so be it, I pull over and let them go.

Most of the time you can simple change lanes anyway and that brings me back to the overtaking thing. In fact, if you think about it, when overtaking on a motorway all your really doing is changing lanes at a faster speed than another road user. You could be in the right lane as much as the left depending on traffic or even in the right lane more simple because you have to constantly overtake slower cars in the left. Personally I think thats more dangerous than simple staying put in the right.

Now heres a better question, why the hell do people sit on roundabouts blocking the whole thing just because they couldnt exit?

You know what I mean, when the red light stops people from exiting the roundabout, instead of hanging back waiting and allow other traffic to keep using the roundabout, especially traffic entering from your left, they go right upto the car in front and block the whole place up. Just because theres no yellow box doesnt mean you should do it.

Threres also people who think indicators are for other people!

Fyr.Fytr

Well the second part about roundabouts is bad planning whats the point of a roundabout if there is lights??

Surely a cross roads would work just aswell and cheaper to set up.

Eru

Fyr.Fytr wrote: »

Well the second part about roundabouts is bad planning whats the point of a roundabout if there is lights??

Surely a cross roads would work just aswell and cheaper to set up.

Because Ireland is so rich we can afford both!

Seriously, I agree but roundabouts where cheaper and required no maintanence so the better option at the time but lights are more effective so over time they got added.

Victor

Roundabouts are useful for certain purposes.
* Cheap to maintain
* High speed, head-on or side-ways collisions are less likely.
* No fixed waiting time like traffic lights.

However, roundabouts aren't as efficient as traffic lights when traffic is busy.

meathstevie

PRND wrote: »

Just wondering if any traffic cops on here patrolling the motorway would ever pull over drivers who sit in the overtaking lane beneath the speed limit or else at a speed less than that in the driving lane.

It seems that ignorance truly is bliss with these drivers and I'd like to think that someone is pointing out their dangerous behaviour to them.

Asked the question to a close friend of mine who is a Garda the reply was as follows : You're supposed to drive in the left hand lane unless you're overtaking or preparing to turn right of a dual carriageway or in traffic congestion. As a sidenote he said that theoretically, it hasn't been done often, someone staying in the right hand lane slowing down traffic behind them could be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention.

Eru

meathstevie wrote: »

Asked the question to a close friend of mine who is a Garda the reply was as follows : You're supposed to drive in the left hand lane unless you're overtaking or preparing to turn right of a dual carriageway or in traffic congestion. As a sidenote he said that theoretically, it hasn't been done often, someone staying in the right hand lane slowing down traffic behind them could be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention.

I give up, I really do. I am a Garda as are half a dozen other users here and I think I have posted this subject well and truly to death at this stage while none of my colleagues have said Im wrong. Besides, since when can you turn right on a motorway? As for due care, for speed it must be less than 50% of the maximum speed limit and is more commonly known as 'failing to make progress'

If its a crime look up irishstatutes.ie and find it!

metman

meathstevie wrote: »

Asked the question to a close friend of mine who is a Garda the reply was as follows : You're supposed to drive in the left hand lane unless you're overtaking or preparing to turn right of a dual carriageway or in traffic congestion. As a sidenote he said that theoretically, it hasn't been done often, someone staying in the right hand lane slowing down traffic behind them could be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention.

Well in the UK your Garda mate would be spot on. The Highway Code here stipulates that you are to only use the righthand lane for overtaking or turning right and as a copper with a bit of traffic experience under my belt I'd be sticking a driver on for due care were they sitting in the right hand lane to the annoyance/detriment of other road users. This offence here covers inconsiderate driving, i.e. driver behaviour that can inconvenience other drivers; tailgating, flashing your headlights or beeping your horn in order to intimidate another driver into speeding up or changing lanes, speeding up through puddles and splashing pedestrians and failure to move out of the overtaking lane are all examples of inconsiderate driving or driving without reasonable consideration for other road-users.

I'm surprised this differs in Ireland as the offence is the same here and there to my knowledge. I was also under the impression the righthand lane was an overtaking/turning right lane there too. Having driven on Irish roads for many years, this was how I treated the righthand lane.

Fyr.Fytr

The only thing like this here is its an offence for hgv's or busses to be in the "rightmost" lane, another law everyone obeys...........

ManofMunster

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Its not a crime is the answer.

....and secondly, marking the road is called criminal damage and doing so while moving the vehicles is called interfering with a crime scene!

lmao. brilliant, karlito:) think i'll stick a can of paint in the boot and go-a-painting next time my girlgriend smacks off someone - just so as to establish legal precedence.

will keep you posted;)

TheNog

There seems to be some confusion here. The Rules of the Road covering the use of the overtaking lane is a guideline only and not written into law. It is considered best practise of use.

However as Karlito already explained if one driver is driving below the speed limit in the overtaking lane and preventing other users from proceeding to the speed limit then it is considered driving without due care and attention. The same can be applied to a driver using a two way carraigeway with a speed limit of 100kph but driving at say 30kph. They can technically be prosecuted for the same offence.

meathstevie

Turning right : positioning in the right hand lane on a dual carriage way in order to take a right hand turn at the next junction

arybvtcw0eolkf

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I give up, I really do. I am a Garda as are half a dozen other users here and I think I have posted this subject well and truly to death at this stage!

There's none so blind as those who do not listen Karl!.

Shield

Agreed. OP's questions has been well and truly answered by now.

Thread closed.