Bio-Ethanol Conversion

ninty9er

JHMEG wrote: »

And you deserve nothing less, ya feckin Fianna Failer.

But on a more serious note, if it all goes well for you, which I hope it does, I'll probably do the same conversion. (Gareth Fitzgerald rocks)

I believe it's Garrett....and so he does. That's an old breed unlike some others....but I'll stop before Gandalf comes in and I get banned again:D:D

Ferris

Anyone know if you can claim a VRT rebate on a car modified to use Biofuel.

More specifically can you claim it on an imported car that has been modified to run bio-ethanol. Im thinking of importing a large petrol engined car from the UK and if I fit the bio-ethanol kit will I only have to pay half of the VRT due?

Matt Simis

Ferris wrote: »

Anyone know if you can claim a VRT rebate on a car modified to use Biofuel.

More specifically can you claim it on an imported car that has been modified to run bio-ethanol. Im thinking of importing a large petrol engined car from the UK and if I fit the bio-ethanol kit will I only have to pay half of the VRT due?

I checked this for both BioDiesel and BioEthanol.

They declined BioDiesel as it can be run in any diesel with no mods, so if they gave a discount there really would be no pressure to actually run on BD. There also is no nationwide availability.

They declined the BioEthanol rebate as the E85 conversion has to be performed at the factory level, aftermarket kits arent supported. Also the "rebate" is not actually a rebate, its built into the VRT price of certain preselected FFVs.

Henry Ford III

JHMEG wrote: »

From what I've read, that (valve seal hardening) seems to be one of the myths about an E85 conversion. I think you're more likely (tho not very) to have your fuel lines eaten.

From the Ford.ie site...

Technically, the Ford FFV differs
from a conventional car only
in that valves and other
components receive a special
coating and that its engine
management system optimises
performance according to what fuel
it is running on.

JHMEG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

From the Ford.ie site...

Technically, the Ford FFV differs
from a conventional car only
in that valves and other
components receive a special
coating and that its engine
management system optimises
performance according to what fuel
it is running on.

That may be the case alright, but that doesn't prove that E85 will do damage to a modern car. Most of the stuff I'm reading says that it'll actually clean your engine.

the drifter

what MPG change are you seeing if any?

JHMEG

Any update on this 99er? How is the car running? More or less power/mpg?

ninty9er wrote: »

I believe it's Garrett....and so he does. That's an old breed unlike some others...

How relevant! Garrett "twin turbo" Fitzgerald!

ninty9er

Bit more Motorway poke in 5th, MPG not massively different considering most of the driving I did on Friday was motorway at 4.5k RPM or Dublin city centre in stop-go-traffic.

There's a bit more power, but nothing that petrol couldn't achieve with a few hundred more revs.

Only other difference I have noticed is that the car is slower to start, but I can live with that. That and the fact that to fill the tank has dropped from €63 to €50:D:D:D

maidhc

I really like the idea of coverting my Capri to run on E85. I might even go to the Ford main dealer after and get one of those "flexifuel" logos for the back. I'm slightly giddy at the thought.

JHMEG

maidhc wrote: »

I really like the idea of coverting my Capri to run on E85. I might even go to the Ford main dealer after and get one of those "flexifuel" logos for the back. I'm slightly giddy at the thought.

maidhc, I don't think the Capri would survive it. Seriously. I think you'd have to get a modern car (well, 1990+). How about a petrol focus to replace the diesel?

maidhc

JHMEG wrote: »

maidhc, I don't think the Capri would survive it. Seriously. I think you'd have to get a modern car (well, 1990+). How about a petrol focus to replace the diesel?

The TDCI is staying! Banish the thought!

I could replace the Capri with a MB w123 300D... and burn what ever burns though, they run on household waste by all accounts

ninty9er

maidhc wrote: »

I might even go to the Ford main dealer after and get one of those "flexifuel" logos for the back. I'm slightly giddy at the thought.

:D:D:D

I'm after one of the Saab BioPower ones!!

JHMEG

maidhc wrote: »

I could replace the Capri with a MB w123 300D... and burn what ever burns though, they run on household waste by all accounts

I prefer dead cats myself!

Henry Ford III

JHMEG wrote: »

That may be the case alright, but that doesn't prove that E85 will do damage to a modern car. Most of the stuff I'm reading says that it'll actually clean your engine.

True, but no manufacturer would undertake any process that wasn't necessary surely?

alias no.9

Henry Ford III wrote: »

True, but no manufacturer would undertake any process that wasn't necessary surely?

You're assuming that there is a substantial difference between the flexifuel and the normal car. You could be talking about marginally different nominal process settings.
Fear, uncertainty and doubt, or FUD to use the correct marketing term, are used to differentiate products that are the same for all intents and purposes but the which the manufacturer/supplier wants customers to perceive as being different.
Ford get a substantial PR benefit from their flexifuel Focus, if it became apparent that the only difference was a software change in the ECU to allow it to adjust the fuel / air ratio and ignition timing, then the question arises why don't they enable every focus to be flexifuel? The answer of course is that then the cars would just be ordinary focii, not some super extra special green machines, they'd just blend into the background. Any 'Green' PR benefit is lost straight away. There would certainly not have been an opportunity to negotiate a VRT discount like Ford did on the introduction of the flexifuel focus, a further PR blow.

limklad

ninty9er wrote: »

Bit more Motorway poke in 5th, MPG not massively different considering most of the driving I did on Friday was motorway at 4.5k RPM or Dublin city centre in stop-go-traffic.

There's a bit more power, but nothing that petrol couldn't achieve with a few hundred more revs.

Only other difference I have noticed is that the car is slower to start, but I can live with that. That and the fact that to fill the tank has dropped from €63 to €50:D:D:D

I am interested in getting my car changed too.



How are you getting on with the flex-Fuel? Any problems with it?


I wonder can you get some road tax reductions because you change fuel types?
and What did the Insurance company say about the conversion?

ninty9er

IT's still running fine, but will need to go for a second adjustment regarding the starter.

As the power is negligible, it's an engine conversion rather than modification (though I take your point) and I couldn't be arsed spending an hour trying to explain it to some imbecile at Hibernian
. Basically it's still just a 1.6 Astra.

Otherwise all is going well and I'm happy I did it (other members of the household remain unconvinced). Happy overall, but I'm thinking I could have wiped 6 months payments off my loan with the cost of it. Time will tell.

limklad

ninty9er wrote: »

IT's still running fine, but will need to go for a second adjustment regarding the starter.

As the power is negligible, it's an engine conversion rather than modification (though I take your point) and I couldn't be arsed spending an hour trying to explain it to some imbecile at Hibernian
. Basically it's still just a 1.6 Astra.

I may be wrong, but it is best to check out with Hibernian as you may invalidate your insurance by not telling them about the change.

I will ring my own insurance FBD to see what they have to say about it.

ninty9er wrote: »

Otherwise all is going well and I'm happy I did it (other members of the household remain unconvinced). Happy overall, but I'm thinking I could have wiped 6 months payments off my loan with the cost of it. Time will tell.

They might be more convinced when the price of Petrol/Diesel keep going up at a fast rate and E85 price increasing at modest rates. Take that in to account, your car loan might be paid off faster as a result provided that you miles per litres are still the same as before the conversion.

STaN

Hi All,

Where can I get a conversion completed in Dublin? I am driving a turbo charged car so I hopefully won't see fuel economy drop that much.

I am keen to get this done within a month.

Thanks in advance.

derry

I am going the chance it and just put E85 into the tank not using convertion kit

So far have reached a ratio of E40 fuel about ~50% E85 and ~50% E5 fuel

A lot of the blurb online at convertion to E85 sites suggests lots of run of the mill non high performance cars can often run E85 without any convertion kits

Turbo and supercharged types can have more issues and more likely to need suitable convertion kits

Issues that can happen with E85 fuel not using convertion kits are slow starting especially in cold weather and soggy acceleration

Hotter spark plugs can solve the slow starting in cold weather

Advancing timing can solve soggy acceleration effects

Soggy acceleration can be lack of fuel due to it requires 30% more E85 to equal Petrol

Increasing the size of the jets in asperated engines can solve soggy acceleration effects
Increasing the time injectors in direct inject engines can let fuel in can solve soggy acceleration effects
Increasing the size of the fuel pumps can increase the amount of fuel to engine


My solution is every fill increase the amount of E85 mix buy 5% increments

So far no issues and engine seems to love the E85

So far the MPG seem similar within a few % the same running on E40 mix

My car is a 1000cc 3 cylider non flex fuel petrol engine for a 98 Suziki Swift
I suspect that when I get to full E85 mix the MPG could drop
Fuel figure are ~70MPG high way at ~50MPH and ~50 MPG city with fuels

E5 E10 E15 ....E40 mixxes

With fuel costs in Dublin at E1.00 euro for E85 and E1.25 for for E5 it makes sense to keep running at least E40 mix as the saving seem to be about 15%

better than a kick in the teeth and hopefully the cleaner fuel will help keep engine cleaner than normal petrol fuels

Engine might act up before reaching E85 at mayby E75 ratios which seems to be where most engines start to stumble

Should know in a few weeks what the limit is

I have no plans to do any changes of any sort to the engine and will just back off the amount the amount of E85 I use if engine shows sign of issues

Derry

derry

Figure I am close to 100% E85 ratio and so far no issues

Worst case I am E75 ratio

As most fuels are not exactly correct generaly E5 is actualy E6 or E7 and E85 is probably E86 to E89 ratios I am fairly certain that the fuel ion the tank is at least E80

In a few weeks I will empty the tank with a long run and only put in E85 to confirm that E85 straight works pefectly

Only very minor issues is sometimes a minor small bit of uneven surging on accelerating hard in 1st or second gear (one time in twenty times more liklely after sitting a long time at the lights or in heavy traffic )

This problem could be sorted easily with a mechanic for ~200 euros of work

For me the simpler solution is to stay on E60% fuel ratios as that returns the best saving some ~10% compared to E5 fuels


keep you posted

Derry

ninty9er

keep it to one thread...we don't need the same post in 2 places.

Good to hear it's going well though.

derry

Final results of my car on E85 fuel

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57567973#post57567973

Derry