Is leinster v Munster rivalry healthy for Irish rugby?

RuggieBear

FFS guys, give it a rest.

gcgirl

Born in Leinster should really support Leinster but no I support Munster Reason a baldy guy called Keith Wood!! Legend one of the nicest guys ever had the pleasure to meet !!!! Oh and Come on The Drummettes

Diamondmaker

thehighground wrote: »

So, give me a Keith Earls equivalent - from Moyross and Dad played for Munster? Any Leinster players from Ballymun whose Dad played for Leinster?

My Dad is from Walkinstown and my Brother played for Leinster 21s, he was going places til a broken jaw copperfastend his decision not to defer studies and push the rugbyand contiune to study. .... Dentistry...ironically :rolleyes:

Leo Cullen, Shane Byrne both hill men from west wicklow! Is that a "forrock" type area?

If you are good enough you are good enough , schooling regardless. Its just a simple fact that schools in Ballymun dont play rugby and hence dont produce rugby players....normally....ever ?

Tallaght has a good rugby club developing at the minute ( I read aome where that it has quite large mebership I think ) and dont be surprised if we see a few from there and the Coolmine RFC, Clonsilla area alike, have a great club, facilities and management.


But in all fairness when my bro played AIL 1 for TCD, making Heaslip look good they always put him down as playing for Pres Bray in the Programme, we both went to a normal CBS ! Always was unusual.........

gcgirl

Diamondmaker wrote: »

My Dad is from Walkinstown and my Brother played for Leinster 21s, he was going places til a broken jaw copperfastend his decision not to defer studies and push the rugbyand contiune to study. .... Dentistry...ironically :rolleyes:

Leo Cullen, Shane Byrne both hill men from west wicklow! Is that a "forrock" type area?

If you are good enough you are good enough , schooling regardless. Its just a simple fact that schools in Ballymun dont play rugby and hence dont produce rugby players....normally....ever ?

Tallaght has a good rugby club developing at the minute ( I read aome where that it has quite large mebership I think ) and dont be surprised if we see a few from there and the Coolmine RFC, Clonsilla area alike, have a great club, facilities and management.


But in all fairness when my bro played AIL 1 for TCD, making Heaslip look good they always put him down as playing for Pres Bray in the Programme, we both went to a normal CBS ! Always was unusual.........

Sorry to be a pain but Leo Cullen is from East wicklow Ashford/Newtown and Shane Byrne is a south Wicklow man his family run a successfull busness down there!

Tim Robbins

RuggieBear wrote: »

FFS guys, give it a rest.

I take the point. Look highground, I think Leinster has room for improvement, I don't think it's perfect, but I don't think Munster are perfect either. There's no point have big arguments over minor difference. I'll still love my Rugby and be involved in the game, and I doubt very much I'll ever be able to afford to live in Foxrock or in Terenure to watch a ML game with you over a beer :-)

thehighground

RuggieBear wrote: »

FFS guys, give it a rest.

A bit of the Munster doggedness up here in Leinster wouldn't go astray - finish off what ye start.

thehighground

Diamondmaker wrote: »

My Dad is from Walkinstown and my Brother played for Leinster 21s, he was going places til a broken jaw copperfastend his decision not to defer studies and push the rugbyand contiune to study. .... Dentistry...ironically :rolleyes:

Leo Cullen, Shane Byrne both hill men from west wicklow! Is that a "forrock" type area?

If you are good enough you are good enough , schooling regardless. Its just a simple fact that schools in Ballymun dont play rugby and hence dont produce rugby players....normally....ever ?

Tallaght has a good rugby club developing at the minute ( I read aome where that it has quite large mebership I think ) and dont be surprised if we see a few from there and the Coolmine RFC, Clonsilla area alike, have a great club, facilities and management.


But in all fairness when my bro played AIL 1 for TCD, making Heaslip look good they always put him down as playing for Pres Bray in the Programme, we both went to a normal CBS ! Always was unusual.........

What is that all about Whats wrong with West Wicklow? Is it any wonder that Munster claims a lot of support in the more rural parts of Leinster with comments like that!

thehighground

gcgirl wrote: »

Sorry to be a pain but Leo Cullen is from East wicklow Ashford/Newtown and Shane Byrne is a south Wicklow man his family run a successfull busness down there!

Indeed - and of course both went to 'rock - Leo even went to Willowpark.

thehighground

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I take the point. Look highground, I think Leinster has room for improvement, I don't think it's perfect, but I don't think Munster are perfect either. There's no point have big arguments over minor difference. I'll still love my Rugby and be involved in the game, and I doubt very much I'll ever be able to afford to live in Foxrock or in Terenure to watch a ML game with you over a beer :-)

Fine. But you don't need to live in Foxrock or Terenure to watch an ML game in a pub there!

Diamondmaker

M V L is always going to prevail in posts, its what people know best...
It is easier to compare, argue, discuss, conrast and troll :rolleyes: based on what people know.

Its not gonna go away at all, will get worse before better ( and if it gets "better" that means rugby has gone off the Joe Publics radar again )

We should all just get used to it the banter and chill out when it bothers us. It takes more energy to constantly comment on it that leave it be I think.....

The rivalry is good and so long as no one takes them selves too seriously the banter should be fine childish or not. It has created a good healthy rivalry that boosted profile. Thi is good for gates, players and ultinately the game.

Rivalry always descend into childishness for some, cmon sports always brings out the kid in grown men.
Rugby fans traditionally tend to be a bit snobby and this is evidenced by the down the nose attitude of some towards new fans.....

With all the clubs at J level mad keen for players to turnout on a Sat morning this is a bad attitude...

JWAD

Munster v Leinster is all fine. Not a prob with it. Some of each team's supporters/followers/bandwagon jumpers need to realise that they are imbeciles however and their tickets are wasted upon them when all they had to do was just sit and home and say to themselves, repetitively, "I hate [insert province name]"

taidghbaby

thehighground wrote: »

Your dead right about a major difference between Munster & Leinster. Outside of Dublin, the Leinster supporters would have a lot in common with the Munster supporters


a lot of leinster people outside the pale i know support munster and in some cases hate leinster-disgusting in my opinion!!!!

athtrasna

Why is Munster v Leinster rivalry any different to Man United v Liverpool. It's just two teams that meet a couple of times every season and then the best of both teams play on the national team?

Okay that's the logic out of the way. It's what I know makes sense but just like it's hard to change football teams, it's the same for rugby.

Now the hand on heart stuff. I am Munster born, but living in Dublin for 8 years, and had a go at the Leinster ST this year and won't do it again. I have tried my best to support Leinster but my heart isn't in it. Not helped by having "Ross O'Carroll Kelly's dad" behind me at a couple of games. A pompous twat that really got my blood boiling on more than one occasion!

Leinster players and supporters often come across as more fond of themselves to put it politely whereas the Munster gang are more ordinary. Or so it seems. And the media help to perpetuate this...back to Ross again but his column has actually bred a troupe of Ross wannabes! Not to mention some of the Leinster lads packing the pages of social mags!

And now back to the question - is it healthy? Yes, because it breeds competition for places, no because some players can't leave it behind at national training camps and matches. Not sure what the solution is but with all the psycho babble that is part of the modern training camp, perhaps some team building might not go amiss.

Diamondmaker

Well if you see ROK alikes at the games, I sure do see plenty of D'unbelievables and Killenaskully cast at Munster games

Scootay

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Can you name the match, Leinster weren't in a ML winner decider game last season?

Had Leinster got a bonus point win away to Cardiff in the last game of last season they'd have won the league. I remember watching it in a Northside pub with a load of Leinster supporters (no soccer on any other TVs) and being gutted with the performance. It was over by half time but then nobody beat Cardiff in Cardiff last season.

I have a Leinster ST and have never, home or away, come across a RO'CK alike while supporting Leinster. I've come across some right eejits but I'd expect that with supporting any team. For me the Leinster Munster rivalry is down to the know nothings in the media trotting out the same old stereotypes again and again.

I don't cheer for Munster or Ulster when they play in the HEC and don't think I should just because they are Irish. They are my team's rivals for the cup but if other people are happy to go with cross provincial support then fair play to them. Connacht I'll cheer for because I feel they get a raw deal from the IRFU but that's it.

athtrasna

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Well if you see ROK alikes at the games, I sure do see plenty of D'unbelievables and Killenaskully cast at Munster games

Quite possibly

What annoyed me most about your man was he never shut up. He gave a running commentary in the most put on D4 accent I've ever heard. Referred to all the players by their first names and was fixated on filllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy:rolleyes:

At the Glasgow game himself and his posse of 50 somethings left at half time because of the cold and a cheer went up in the neighbouring rows!

Gelio

after watching the all blacks game i'm starting to think the rivalry has some posatives

dc69

how so?

Gelio

although we lost it was a much better preformance than 6 nations and the world cup.
This probably has a lot to do with munster winning the heinikenand leinster winning the magners. Spirits were much higher.

dc69

ajeffares wrote: »

although we lost it was a much better preformance than 6 nations and the world cup.
This probably has a lot to do with munster winning the heinikenand leinster winning the magners. Spirits were much higher.

Fair enough.Although I dont really see how Munster winning the H-cup and Leinster the league is a rivalry.

Its a good footing to play games on as its a confidence boost.

Its not as if Munster won the heineken cup to get one over on Leinster or vice versa.

Gelio

taidghbaby wrote: »

thehighground wrote: »

Your dead right about a major difference between Munster & Leinster. Outside of Dublin, the Leinster supporters would have a lot in common with the Munster supporters


a lot of leinster people outside the pale i know support munster and in some cases hate leinster-disgusting in my opinion!!!!

That annoys me

Gelio

Hold on now not just outside the Pale in dublin also;)

ManofMunster

i don't think the rivalry is as fierce as many make out

maybe if the sides were closer

Heroditas

ManofMunster wrote: »

i don't think the rivalry is as fierce as many make out

If it was as fierce as people made out, there would be ugly scenes between fans before and after the games. Instead we see nothing of the sort ... the opposite in fact. There are quite a few bellends from bot hcamps though who do not respect the traditions of rugby. They're the sort who will boo penalty kicks and conversions, scream abuse at opposition players and generally act an arse. It's really up to the rest of the fans to put them in their place and educate them.

There's plenty of flame wars on the internet ..... but it's the internet. Full of keyboard hardmen, many of whom would not have the bottle to say the stuff they type to someone's face and also have not graced a rugby pitch in many years .... if ever!

Let the sad trolls get their little bit of enjoyment with their "cousin-f**ker" or "D4 Ladyboy" slagging while they hang off the coat-tails of others' achievements in an attempt to fill their empty pathetic lives.
The press have to be held accountable as well. There are many journalists who play on the "country underdog" versus the "soft city slickers". It's incredibly tiresome yet we still like to cling to the theory of the honest, toiling tyros from the countryside up against the city boys. Heck I've even seen that card being played between two country rugby teams! The press have incredibly short memories. The ywrite what they want and unfortunately stereotypes stick. IT sells papers to the masses but thankfully, the vast majority of real rugby supporters know the true story and shouldn't get blinded by the drivel served up by the journos and certain TV pundits.

I know the rest of us will still enjoy the game, have a hefty appreciation for it and still shake hands with the opposition fans afterwards and share a pint with them.

It's great to have a rivalry in this country because Ireland has never had one in professional sport. We've had it in GAA for 100 years and to a lesser extent in soccer. Now we can cultivate on (on the pitch only hopefully) in rugby and it will be the biggest in the country.



I still don't like Munster though. :P

ManofMunster

i don't think any munster fan would regard brian o'driscoll as soft (a bit smug maybe, but not soft) - but in any healthy rivalry, one is going to pick stereotypes in the opposition to latch on to. it's all harmless banter imo, and anyone who has been to a leinster-munster match will know that harmless banter is as far as it ever goes (or is ever likely to go).

both teams do remarkably well to compete with the best in europe with a fraction of the european giants' budgets. and while they may cite the fact they have to fund squads for more competitive domestic leagues, there's no reason why the ML can't be as competitive once it beds down and once our international players are committed to playing in it week in week out (i know it's not the players' fault - but i do think it will only be a serious league when ALL teams take ALL matches seriously).

but i digress. Munster Leinster rivalry is entirely healthy for irish rugby. i just hope that ulster pick up after a few poor seasons and that connacht are provided with a few more bob so they can take that last ML spot (someone should point out to the IRFU it would be worth the investment) so that interpro rivalry becomes more four-way.

yes, we'll always have the D4-accented bottle-of-heino-sipping poncy-sweater-thrown-over-the-shoulders-and-knotted-in-the-front brigade to throw jibes at, just as as i'm sure leinster fans will take humbrage at their spud-chomping tractor-driving heineken-cup-winning brethren from down south, but nothing wrong with that surely.

at the end of the day, we'd love to have produced the backs leinster have over the past ten years and i'm sure they'd love to have paul o'connell and ronan o'gara in their ranks. there's a lot of mutual respect there - deep deep down. but in the meantime, i'm reverting to superficial lazy stereotyping. it's what i'm best at

komodosp

No problem with a bit of rivalry, it adds the fun to the game... like England qualifying for the World Cup gives Irish fans who love to see them lose something to be interested in... Who cares, it's just a bit of craic! It's not like (as other posters have said) there is violence spilling on to the streets or anything...

Whether it's good for Irish rugby, in theory yes... But if you look at the points where Ireland are slightly weaker... The backs... Both Munster and Leinster are employing from overseas at different positions... I mean who is competing for Irish centre from Munster? or out-half from Leinster?

JWAD

komodosp wrote: »

I mean who is competing for Irish centre from Munster? or out-half from Leinster?

Keith Earls and Jonny Sexton

buck65

First off I'm a Munster season ticket holder.
I find it hard not to cheer for Leinster when they're playing everyone except us, I also will Ulster and Connaught on when they're playing.
However I was at the ML game in the RDS and was a little taken aback by the vitriol in some of the crowd towards the Munster players. O Gara and Stringer both took bad looking knocks at the game and some idiots laughed and cheered when they went down. (Especially Stringer )This was not restricted to a few people in the crowd. Maybe we are as bad at home but a few of us were shocked to say the least in the seated terrace behind the far posts. I often had a go at a player myself from the sideline but an injury I draw the line with.
We were outclassed that day no doubt but I left vowing to never root for Leinster again, time will tell.

RuggieBear

Yep you are correct...you will here the similar reports from the leinster fans who were in Musgrave Park recently... a minority of fools abusing leinster players beyond the accepted realm of banter.

Or the dickheads at ireland matches who only cheer their provinces players or wanting certain players hurt so that their provinces players can take the field

Or I could tell you about the abuse i received from Munster "fans" at the HC semifinal...and the final itself

There are ****ing morons everywhere.

Heroditas

How did you get into the terrace Buck? That's for Leinster season ticket holders only?

RuggieBear

Heroditas wrote: »

How did you get into the terrace Buck? That's for Leinster season ticket holders only?

there are a group of about 60 munster fans who have season tickets for Leinster in that terrace and passionately support Leinster until Leinster are playing Munster and then the Red jersey's emerge.

Damo.Smith

The rivalry is v healthy,it's good for the young players to be involved in high intensity games

Amazotheamazing

buck65 wrote: »

First off I'm a Munster season ticket holder.
I find it hard not to cheer for Leinster when they're playing everyone except us, I also will Ulster and Connaught on when they're playing.
However I was at the ML game in the RDS and was a little taken aback by the vitriol in some of the crowd towards the Munster players. O Gara and Stringer both took bad looking knocks at the game and some idiots laughed and cheered when they went down. (Especially Stringer )This was not restricted to a few people in the crowd. Maybe we are as bad at home but a few of us were shocked to say the least in the seated terrace behind the far posts. I often had a go at a player myself from the sideline but an injury I draw the line with.
We were outclassed that day no doubt but I left vowing to never root for Leinster again, time will tell.

At a Leinster game in the RDS (iirc) a group of Leinster fans took great delight in screaming the word "Judas" at Declan Kidney in 2005/2006 (ie, the season he rejoined Munster). That in itself is horrible, and totally unlike what most leinster supporters are like.

To make matters worse, the game took place a matter of days after Kidney's mother had died, over Christmas.

To me, that's the lowest any group of rugby supporters from Ireland have ever sunk.

However, I am happy to believe, with absolute certainty, that those supporters are not the norm for either Leinster or Ireland, but are rather a bunch of idiots like every province has.

I also remember when Prendy got sinbinned playing for Bourgoin against Munster, the crowd started to cheer "cheerio cheerio" until the realised who it was going off. Cheers like that have no place in Irish rugby either, imo.

When events like that happen, you have to wonder if the increased popularity of the provinces and the increased rivalry between them, is necessary a 100% good thing.

[Jackass]

From where I was in RDS that day, when stringer was carted off, it was to a standing ovasion from all in blue, in fairness I didn't hear any abuse thrown his way. (I was there with half Leinster half Munster)

I did however get told to "fu*k off" from an ould lad in his old school Munster jersey when my (munster) buddy was talking to him while leaving the ground and I merely pointed out it was a full strength Munster side on the day, followed by "we have bigger fish to fry"...

I found it funny the amount of times that night I heard so many Munster fans dismiss their inability to beat us with, "well we're only concentraiting on the HEC"...

I don't think I heard once, fair play to Leinster, better team on the day...

I think some of it is very petty, and I have to say from a Leinster perspective (and it may be exactly the same from a Munster perspective towards Leinster fans), I've never met such a bunch of ungracious fans in my life!! In victory all they want to do is rub it in your face and in defeat they're bitter and belittling!

I just can not wait for a HEC rematch. Home or Away.

(but yaeh I think it's healthy - will ensure fans stay interested and go to games, as well as pulling new fans in - so that can only be good - rather that than scottish rugby where there is no rivalry at all, just indifference.)

Edit: before hell breaks loose, I'd just like to say that 90% of Munster fan are always great 90% of the time, but I'm just talking about some personal experience, and it's always around derby time which is understandable and I'm guilty of it too, but I'm sure as many Munster fans have had bad experiences with our fans as I would have had with theirs. That's the way it is unfortunately in any sport. I cheer on Munster, Ulster and Connacht againt everybody else as they do us. Plenty of expats from the republic of Munster make up the impressive Leinster fan base at the RDS.

Heroditas

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

To make matters worse, the game took place a matter of days after Kidney's mother had died, over Christmas.

To me, that's the lowest any group of rugby supporters from Ireland have ever sunk.

It was pretty low alright but not everyone would have been aware his mother died. It wasn't headline news. Remember, at Christmas time, most people are blisfully unaware of what happens.

There will always be idiots - Leinster idiots, Munster idiots, Ulster idiots. Dunno if there are any Conacht idiots - they barely have any fans as it is anyway!

buck65

jackass
i actually say in my post that we were outclassed!
Leinster were hungrier that day and had eyes on the ML title. I have 2 very good griends who are Leinster fans ( they even put me up for the day in 2006 semi final in the RDS hospitality thingy) and I did say hats off to Leinster that day.
Munster were full strength but were not fully focused on the job and at that level it's a massive difference.
But I would tell you to **** off too if you had come near me after the match I prefer to fume quietly...:cool:

Henry Ford III

It's not rivalry per se, it's a grudging mutual respect and a wee bit of fear all combined.

It's a good thing, but you'll always get a few loons unfortunately in both camps who let the side down.

Pemba

Ah everyone loves a bit of edge. Has to be a good thing.