Can a car be taxed without insurance?

Kotek Besar

The car in question is in my wife's name and she can't drive. I won't be insuring the vehicle as I have my own policy on another car, which permits me to drive other peoples' cars with their consent. Therefore, I am insured to drive my wife's car.

However, the tax on my wife's car will soon run out. Can I tax it, being that it doesn't (yet) have an insurance policy in it's own right?

Zapp Brannigan

I don't think you can drive her car regardless. I think Open Drive only applies to cars that already have an insurance policy.

michelleans

If the ownership is transferred to your wife, she may tax the car, regardless of whether it is insured or not.

To be legally able to drive her car though, her car must be insured under her own name first, you must have her consent and you must hold a full license. If there is no insurance on the car, your insurance does not cover you.

Kotek Besar

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

I don't think you can drive her car regardless. I think Open Drive only applies to cars that already have an insurance policy.

My insurance policy doesn't require that the other vehicle has it's own policy. Although I have heard of this too, and so I checked it thoroughly. It is a UK policy from Zurich.

To quote the policy wording:

Section 2 Driving other cars

If this is set out in your certificate of insurance, we will extend your cover under Section 1 of this policy while you are driving in the United Kingdom or Republic of Ireland to include any motor car not owned by you or hired to you under a hire purchase agreement.

Nowhere in my policy does it mention a requirement that the other vehicle has it's own policy.

Kotek Besar

michelleans wrote: »

If the ownership is transferred to your wife, she may tax the car, regardless of whether it is insured or not.

Thank you. However, I seem to remember that, on the relevant form that you have to fill out at the Motor Tax office, you have to provide your insurance policy number?

Homer

Yup, I taxed my car last week for the first time in Q4U and when I rang to ask what I needed to bring I was told insurance policy number and expiry date of policy?

Kotek Besar

industria wrote: »

Yup, I taxed my car last week for the first time in Q4U and when I rang to ask what I needed to bring I was told insurance policy number and expiry date of policy?

Thanks. Yes, that certainly rings a bell alright.

michelleans

Sorry if I was unclear, there must be insurance on the car from the date of commencement of the tax, but not on the car to fill in the tax form.

http://www.northtippcoco.ie/docs/Motor_Tax/Forms/rf100a.pdf

C4 Section 4 - Insert the name of the Insurance Company (name of Broker will NOT suffice), Insurance Policy Number and date of Expiry of the
Insurance. Your Insurance must be current on the first day of the renewal period or the renewal date, whichever is later and the Insurance is appropriate
to the declared use of the vehicle.

michelleans

benifa wrote: »

Nowhere in my policy does it mention a requirement that the other vehicle has it's own policy.

Nowhere in your policy does it mention specifically that non-insured cars are covered either. I'd call them to be sure.

Kotek Besar

michelleans wrote: »

Nowhere in your policy does it mention specifically that non-insured cars are covered either. I'd call them to be sure.

Thanks for your reply. I did call them, and they confirmed that there was no requirement for the other vehicle to be insured in it's own right on another policy. Can't see why it would be a requirement anyway, I'm the risk being in insured, not the car. But you're right though - some policies do require this. I've read about this debate before.

In any case, what's in black and white carries more weight than the spoken word, and I carry my Certificate of Insurance and Policy Wording with me whenever I drive, just in case I'm stopped.

R.O.R

^^
Is the vehicle driving in accordance with the Law? i.e displaying a full valid insurance disc? If not then the vehicle is not roadworthy and can't legally be driven on Irish roads.

To answer the original question, as there is no central insurance database in Ireland you can put any (as in one you copy off a disc of a parked car) policy details on the tax application and it will go through.

All vehicles we tax in work are taxed using our own policy details, but would be covered under the hirer's policy.

Steve

benifa wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. I did call them, and they confirmed that there was no requirement for the other vehicle to be insured in it's own right on another policy. Can't see why it would be a requirement anyway, I'm the risk being in insured, not the car. But you're right though - some policies do require this. I've read about this debate before.

In any case, what's in black and white carries more weight than the spoken word, and I carry my Certificate of Insurance and Policy Wording with me whenever I drive, just in case I'm stopped.

You're right. The whole thing about the other car needing it's own insurance is popular myth.
It always gets argued here, and nobody can come up with anything to proove it.

On my policy I can drive other cars, it's only TP though - the bare minimum to be legal.

Also (on my policy), spouses and employers cars are excluded - from the wording you posted, this seems to be OK though.

Kotek Besar

R.O.R wrote: »

^^
Is the vehicle driving in accordance with the Law? i.e displaying a full valid insurance disc? If not then the vehicle is not roadworthy and can't legally be driven on Irish roads.

To answer the original question, as there is no central insurance database in Ireland you can put any (as in one you copy off a disc of a parked car) policy details on the tax application and it will go through.

All vehicles we tax in work are taxed using our own policy details, but would be covered under the hirer's policy.

Hi there, thanks for your reply. Ok, this makes things clearer. Bit worried about what you mention about not displaying a valid insurance disc being illegal.

That's irritating, to say the least. The driver is insured to drive the vehicle, but the Gardai won't be happy if they don't see a disc in the windscreen. Hmm.. there must be a way around that. My current UK policy (on a car which has now died) runs out in August. At that point I'll use my earned NCD on a new Irish policy, in my name, on my wife's car. Until then I'm legally insured to drive my wife's car, under the terms of my UK policy (I wouldn't dream of driving un-insured), but how will I keep the Gardai happy over no disc?

craichoe

Insurance comapnies always say theres no problem until theres a problem

R.O.R

If there was a loophole what would stop us all insuring a 1litre Fiesta with open drive, registering (but not insuring) a Dodge Viper in our wife/cousin/aunti/dogs name and driving that?

seamus

Be very, very careful about the wording of the policy.

Most Irish policies specifically state that you may not drive another car under the policy if it belongs to your spouse.

That's because under Irish law, family assets are pooled so what belongs to your wife, belongs to you. So technically your wife's car is "owned" by you, which makes it exempt under the part of your policy quoted above. I would consult with a few bods before proceeding - the Gardai and your insurance company would be two.

JoeySully

From what I have read here on boards and spoken to other people - you cannot tax a car without supplying an insurance policy number and a expiry date however you can make a mistake when filling in this number and it will not be noticed
as for driving without tax - well thats just up to you - excuses include its in the post, i have just bought the car privately and waiting for the registration book - ( even though you don't really need this to tax the car it was only the old log books you needed to bring in and get stamped but im yet to meet a guard that knows this well at least down south - from my experience and this is not a dig or a generalization guards are mostly people that couldnt finish college or just didn't go (guess i should have been one too )

regarding insurance - some companies allow you to drive other peoples cars even though there may not be a current policy on the vehicle then there are some that insist that the vehicle you want to drive is insured. depends on the company. Also, generally it will always be third party.

driving without a valid insurance disk - well you can carry your insurance certificate with you - if you do get stopped it should be enough for the guard.
best thing to do when you are driving a slightly illegal car by this i mean you don't have a valid insurance disk displayed oh no how dangerous !!:rolleyes: then don't get pulled over for doing something stupid like breaking a red light or speeding - you can get away with most stuff at a check point but get shafted if you get stopped for doing something wrong and then not having your disks up to date

Kotek Besar

R.O.R wrote: »

If there was a loophole what would stop us all insuring a 1litre Fiesta with open drive, registering (but not insuring) a Dodge Viper in our wife/cousin/aunti/dogs name and driving that?

Ah yes, but remember the level of cover when driving another vehicle is only third party. It's not at all likely that anyone would want drive a Dodge Viper with only TP cover.

I wouldn't be looking for a loop hole, just a way of proving to the Gardai, if pulled, that I'm legally insured to drive the car. In the UK there are no insurance discs for displaying in the windscreen. If pulled, the driver can prove that he is insured to drive the vehicle by producing his Certificate of Insurance and Policy Wording / Document. I can't see why the same shouldn't be acceptable here in Ireland.

Steve

benifa wrote: »

Hi there, thanks for your reply. Ok, this makes things clearer. Bit worried about what you mention about not displaying a valid insurance disc being illegal.

That's irritating, to say the least. The driver is insured to drive the vehicle, but the Gardai won't be happy if they don't see a disc in the windscreen. Hmm.. there must be a way around that. My current UK policy (on a car which has now died) runs out in August. At that point I'll use my earned NCD on a new Irish policy, in my name, on my wife's car. Until then I'm legally insured to drive my wife's car, under the terms of my UK policy (I wouldn't dream of driving un-insured), but how will I keep the Gardai happy over no disc?

Technically you must display a valid insurance disc, however there are some exceptions in the legislation which allow a car to drive with no disc. Unfortunately it doesn't cover this stiuation though.

In my case, I will use my own insurance disc if the car is not insured as it has all of the details required by law i.e. insurer, policy no. exipry date etc and I carry my cert as a backup.

As its a UK policy, I'm guessing that you don't have a disc as all?

This makes it more complicated.
hmmm.

fl4pj4ck

R.O.R wrote: »

If there was a loophole what would stop us all insuring a 1litre Fiesta with open drive, registering (but not insuring) a Dodge Viper in our wife/cousin/aunti/dogs name and driving that?

this is how it works around the world, i.e. in Poland once you have your insurance you can drive other cars regardless if they're insured or not

Steve

Having read Seamus's post, I'd be a bit worried about the ownership thing, I thought it just applied to houses but Seamus tends to know what he's talking about.

Can't you just transfer the balance of your insurance policy to your wifes car?
Is there a problem with it being an Irish reg?

Kotek Besar

stevec wrote: »

Can't you just transfer the balance of your insurance policy to your wifes car?
Is there a problem with it being an Irish reg?

This is exactly the issue mate. UK insurers won't insure a foreign registered vehicle on a policy. It least, Zurich won't (yet they do allow me to drive someone else's Irish car, bizarrely).

Ah well, now I know that getting road tax on my wife's car won't be an issue, that's the main thing. Come August I'll be taking out an Irish insurance policy on the car anyway.

kittycati

If you do the car tax online with the expired insurance details it works. Loophole there but i would suggest do it quick!!!