M7 - Castletown to Nenagh

123easy

JupiterKid wrote: »

I think a formal campaign to get J22 and J23 on the M7 redesigned should get underway. They are a fatal accident waiting to happen.

I'm seriously considering writing a letter to the NRA.

Write all the letters you want, it's unlikely to have any effect in the current economic climate. The NRA will just say is that the junction design complies with the design standards and have been approved by road safety auditors. Its there to stay so get used of it.

testicle

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

Good for you! But it's as useless as a condom in a convent on the M50 and N7 out as far as the M7 past Kildare!

But you're right, for the rest of the road it' feckin awesome, I get lots of sleep from that point on. :eek:;):p

I'd insist on a condom if I was a riding a nun. Can you imagine the embarrassment if a nun got pregnant!

Irish and Proud

123easy wrote: »

Write all the letters you want, it's unlikely to have any effect in the current economic climate. The NRA will just say is that the junction design complies with the design standards and have been approved by road safety auditors. Its there to stay so get used of it.

Those junctions were tight LILOs from a very early stage of the design process. In fact, the original plans appeared to have not even included the proper acceleration/deceleration lanes that are now in place - in short, it could have been worse! :eek: The LILOs on the M18 Gort to Crusheen appear to be of a higher spec (newer design) with no omission of the mainline hard-shoulder (at the triangles), proper tapers into the triangles, a larger radius on each entry/exit curve as well as having good acceleration/deceleration lanes.

I have to disagree with you - those M7 junctions have to change - especially if there are any serious accidents at the said locations.

JupiterKid

It's easy to be pessimistic and cynical about the chances of the NRA making changes to Junctions 22 and 23, but these are very, very dangerous junctions that were very poorly designed.

How they got approval is simply beyond me. Was it really much cheaper to build these as LILOs instead of simple diamonds or dumbells?

They will have to be changed because there will be a fatal accident at these if they are left as they are.

csd

Folks,

I've uploaded some pics of the M7 between J19 and J24, which includes Castletown - Nenagh and the infamous compact LILOs.

A commentary can be found here on SSC, which also has links to the Flickr page for full-size versions if anyone's interested.

/csd

Amtmann

Those shots are so good csd, I'm going to re-post them here:

ALL PICS BY CSD:

M7 junctions 19 to 24

This is the first of a two-part trip down the M7. All photos were taken today, and it includes coverage of Ireland's last motorway to open, the M7 Castletown to Nenagh scheme. This will hold the accolade of 'newest motorway' for some years to come now, since there for the first time in a long time (a decade?), there are currently no new motorways under construction in the Republic.

First the key map. Google incorrectly shows the M7 as N7 from Nenagh onwards, but the route is classified as motorway from Naas all the way to Limerick.


Key map by csd75, on Flickr

1. Approaching J19, which is where the M8 to Cork diverges, there are a number of overhead gantries and a VMS. There isn't really any excuse for missing the turnoff for Cork!

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

2. The diverge itself. This is a limited access junction, only routes to/from Dublin are catered for. You can't go from the M8 northbound to M7 westbound, or M7 eastbound to M8 southbound.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

3. The M8 diverge, as seen from the M7. The M8 northbound carriageway passes under the M7 mainline before merging.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

4. 95 km to Limerick city.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

5. This section of the motorway is tolled (€1.80 for cars), and is the only tolled section on the entire N7/M7 route between Dublin and Limerick.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

6. Approaching the end of the tolled section. There is no exit 20.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

7. End of the M7 Portlaoise - Castletown scheme. Up until December 22nd, the motorway ended here before restarting again at Nenagh. The M7 Castletown - Nenagh scheme opened then.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

8. The newest section of motorway in Ireland starts here.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

9. It's not such a long way to Tipperary anymore

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

Amtmann

10. Removable section of centre barrier, presumably to allow for contraflows during bridge works.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

11. Oh deer!

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

12. Rolling north Tipperary countryside.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

13. 'Authorised vehicles only' - I guess these can be used for inspections etc.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

14. Approaching J22, we see these usual advance direction signs for a motorway in Ireland. The reason for the arm being at 90 degrees will become apparent!

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

15. Yep, that's an awfully tight turn for a motorway exit!

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

16. Getting closer to Limerick.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

17. This part of the country got some snow on Friday.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

18. Crossing another county border.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

19. Quite steep and twisty here.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

Amtmann

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

20. Exit 23, another compact LILO (Left-in, Left-out) grade-separted junction. There have been a few crashes at these already as people aren't expecting such a sharp angle at the exit. Moneygall was home to some of Barack Obama's ancestors.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

21. Onwards to Limerick.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

22. Approaching J24, the final exit on the Castletown - Nenagh scheme.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr


Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

23. This bridge formerly spanned a single carriagway two-lane road, the Nenagh bypass, which was upgraded to motorway standard using the existing land reservation. This is the end of the Castletown - Nenagh scheme.

Untitled by csd75, on Flickr

L1011

Nice to see the bridge that a former user screamed and screamed "had" to be replaced to fit a motorway under it quite clearly not replaced, or modified in any way shape or form in the last pic there.

VR6

Wow, those Jct 22 and 23 LILOs are truly unbelievable. Not only are the turns ridiculously tight, but the exit lanes are way way too short. They look to be much shorter than even normal exit lanes leading to flyovers/roundabouts. Hence the two gigantic design flaws are compounded.


I agree with other posters that there will be one or more fatal accidents here in the future. This would be the case even in countries that are used to motorway driving - let alone Ireland where the general standard of motorway driving (and overtaking lane hogging) is not great. With any increased traffic density cars in the slow lane just behind drivers exiting at these junctions would be forced to slow down, this creating a further hazard.
Whatever way you add it up, it comes out as a disaster and a disgrace.

csd

Furet wrote: »

Those shots are so good csd, I'm going to re-post them here:

Why thank you!

Tangentially on-topic for this thread: the narrow median with concrete barrier. I'm not so sure these are a good idea anymore, because when the sh1t hits the fan, there's nowhere to go.

The M7 between Naas and Newbridge was absolutely lethal with black ice today, and unlike the PPP bit and sections further south, it hadn't been treated. One accident happened right before my very eyes (about three cars up ahead) when a car lost it and spun sideways across the carriageway. It was just south of J10, I was in lane 2, and when I touched the brakes nothing but the ABS pulsing. The only reason I was able to escape with both myself and the car completely unscathed was because there's a wide median at this point and I was able to avoid the crashed vehicles by bringing the car to a controlled stop on the central reservation.

Had the same thing happened further south on one of the narrow median sections I (and a few others) would almost certainly have ploughed into the back of the accident. And yes, I was leaving plenty of distance between me and the car in front, right up to the point where another idiot in an X5 decided to go from the acceleration lane on the J10 on-slip straight to lane 2 without checking their mirrors properly. Two seconds later the car in front of him loses it.

It's too late to build a wide median now, but at the very least I think there should be VMSs with road temperature warnings on them. I've seen pictures of these from eastern or central Europe that have air and road temperature displays, which might at least get the message through to some people that aggressive driving isn't a good idea in these sort of conditions. It mightn't have worked on the particular idiot that caused this crash (minutes earlier he was glued to my tail as I was performing a very careful overtaking manoevre), but we need something. Apart from the crash I saw take place, I counted two tow trucks pulling vehicles out of the median and at least three other cars abandoned after crashes in the few km between J10 and J12 alone today.

/csd

JupiterKid

Great set of images. The new section of M7 looks good with the obvious exception of the shockingly below standard Junctions 22 and 23.

J23 in particular looks like it has appallingly short deceleration and acceleration slips.

runway16

csd wrote: »

Why thank you!

Tangentially on-topic for this thread: the narrow median with concrete barrier. I'm not so sure these are a good idea anymore, because when the sh1t hits the fan, there's nowhere to go.

The M7 between Naas and Newbridge was absolutely lethal with black ice today, and unlike the PPP bit and sections further south, it hadn't been treated. One accident happened right before my very eyes (about three cars up ahead) when a car lost it and spun sideways across the carriageway. It was just south of J10, I was in lane 2, and when I touched the brakes nothing but the ABS pulsing. The only reason I was able to escape with both myself and the car completely unscathed was because there's a wide median at this point and I was able to avoid the crashed vehicles by bringing the car to a controlled stop on the central reservation.

Had the same thing happened further south on one of the narrow median sections I (and a few others) would almost certainly have ploughed into the back of the accident. And yes, I was leaving plenty of distance between me and the car in front, right up to the point where another idiot in an X5 decided to go from the acceleration lane on the J10 on-slip straight to lane 2 without checking their mirrors properly. Two seconds later the car in front of him loses it.

It's too late to build a wide median now, but at the very least I think there should be VMSs with road temperature warnings on them. I've seen pictures of these from eastern or central Europe that have air and road temperature displays, which might at least get the message through to some people that aggressive driving isn't a good idea in these sort of conditions. It mightn't have worked on the particular idiot that caused this crash (minutes earlier he was glued to my tail as I was performing a very careful overtaking manoevre), but we need something. Apart from the crash I saw take place, I counted two tow trucks pulling vehicles out of the median and at least three other cars abandoned after crashes in the few km between J10 and J12 alone today.

/csd

I must say, I do like having the grass median as "extra get out space" if its needed too. The one thing about the concrete barrier though, is that people dont seem to like driving next to it, so when they are finished overtaking, they do actually tend to get out of the way, hence you find you are less often in the overtaking lane to begin with.

As most of these stretches are more lightly trafficked than the wide median stretches closer to Dublin, it wont be such an issue, but I do see exactly where you are coming from! ;-)

In relation to VMS's, I doubt it would make a bit of difference sadly. We have them on the M50 and M1 and it doesnt seem to do the blindest bit of good.

There were trials some years ago of special catseyes that had LED lighting installed that in normal conditions glowed white, but once the temperature went below 3 celcius, used to flash in Blue warning that Ice was possible. I believe Holland tried these out but I might be wrong. I remember seeing it on TV and thinking it was quite a neat idea.

runway16

MYOB wrote: »

Nice to see the bridge that a former user screamed and screamed "had" to be replaced to fit a motorway under it quite clearly not replaced, or modified in any way shape or form in the last pic there.

;-)

Yes, I think the obvious solution, if clearance had been an issue, would have been to just drop the road to increase the head height?

lottpaul

runway16 wrote: »

;-)

Yes, I think the obvious solution, if clearance had been an issue, would have been to just drop the road to increase the head height?

I thought that was exactly what had happened at the northern end of the Nenagh bypass? Or is there another similar bridge?

flazio

MYOB wrote: »

Nice to see the bridge that a former user screamed and screamed "had" to be replaced to fit a motorway under it quite clearly not replaced, or modified in any way shape or form in the last pic there.

I think that might have been me and hello I'm still here.
Yeah I'll admit the bridge has fitted in well to the scheme and the road seems just fine. Those 2 LILO's could be a serious issue however, and it looks like they have already taken a couple of victims.

Amtmann

flazio wrote: »

I think that might have been me and hello I'm still here.

Nope, he's referring to mysterious, who started the thread.

veryangryman

Drove the M18 other day in its full length

The road has numerous LILOs with the same sharp bends

Where are the people crying about them? Whats so special about Roscrea/Toomevara

The trip just made me completely change opinion on them. Other than a barrier (which the M18 does at junctions), what else can they do with them.

Anyone who has hit these is clearly a moron and would likely kill/injure themselves some other way through other moron-related activity.

Extra signage to warn people, yes. Barrier, yes. Junction upgrade, no.

Amtmann

I suppose it's time to shut this thread. Pick up all M7 discussion here.