M7 - Castletown to Nenagh

swoofer

I want the road open asap as well. Would you not think the TD for Transport could get involved and earn a few brownie points.

Oops just remembered who the TD for transport is- not a hope.

If the council wanted the road open they could easily circumvent the problem but making an extraordinary payment to the subbies on humanitarian grounds and then deduct the amount paid from the arbitration sum. It appears to suit someone to put this off for as long as possible. I blame FF and will not vote for them and I will go north via athlone for next 2 years.

In all honesty its simply pathetic.

Chris_5339762

Two years sounds to me like a terrible bit of panic journalism.

There is no way that it could possibly be delayed by 2 years; in the end some people would just come out one night with JCBs and pull away the concrete blocks at the junctions. Viola, road opened. Noone would close it again.

Berty

If the road is handed over to the local council by the contractors following its completion then surely their presence on the roads is illegal and dangerous.

OR

Is it the case that minute elements have not been completed therefore the road is not viable to be handed over.

Amtmann

I propose that henceforth only Roadbridge, Willis and BAM should be considered for 20km+ road schemes.

Berty

It is a hard task though for those in "power" to realise what the word VALUE actually means.

Cheap is not always a good choice when it comes to an infrastructure you really want to last, finish on time, without financial issues, upset contractors and delayed openings.

Directroute seem to be the only option I would even consider personally. They could work for cheaper if they wanted to. I worked for them and they really loved to spoil themselves.

slinky2000

2 years.... Ah Jesus

Sponge Bob

I think that conciliation and arbitration disputes cannot be fastracked to the Commercial Court because they are not deemed commercial enough. Could be 2 years in the normal High Court is what they mean.

Deedsie

The M7 is cursed. If it's not bogs holding it up, it's financial disputes. Two years is ridiculous. Who is to blame here lads? Wouldnt you love the minister for transport to get involved, or at least explain to the public why we are waiting for a finished road to open.

Are the workers just going into work to protest all week? Nothing being done?

CrowdedHouse

Protests now at N62 junction outside Roscrea

Dirigent

Please, please please can we have an election and put someone in charge?

Sponge Bob

Dirigent wrote: »

Please, please please can we have an election and put someone in charge?

Noel Dempsey _is_ in charge so prepare for a site inspection by a low flying jet some time this morning

cjpm

Furet wrote: »

I propose that henceforth only Roadbridge, Willis and BAM should be considered for 20km+ road schemes.

Trust me, you don't know the ins and outs of this scheme or the claim that was lodged.

Remember Bowen were awarded this huge sum of money for a reason.

Council are just trying to save face taking it to arbitration, those in the know reckon the CoCo haven't a leg to stand on. The Conciliator obviously thought the same when he made his decision.


IMHO I think that Bowen have done remarkably well to have this scheme ready on time.

Most of the earth moving for this scheme was to be done in Summers 08 and 09. They were both washouts.....

Deedsie

cjpm wrote: »

Trust me, you don't know the ins and outs of this scheme or the claim that was lodged.

Remember Bowen were awarded this huge sum of money for a reason.

Council are just trying to save face taking it to arbitration, those in the know reckon the CoCo haven't a leg to stand on. The Conciliator obviously thought the same when he made his decision.


IMHO I think that Bowen have done remarkably well to have this scheme ready on time.

Most of the earth moving for this scheme was to be done in Summers 08 and 09. They were both washouts.....

They don't have the best PR team

Dirigent

Meanwhile the taxpayers suckers are on the hook for a full toll for a half motorway.

MYSTICA1

In today's Irish Times ..
Deal in sight on M7 wages row

A settlement was said to be in sight last night in the dispute over wages for men working on the M7 motorway in counties Laois and Offaly, reports .

The men, who threatened to dig up parts of the 36km motorway, have not been paid since November 1st.

Senior engineer with Laois County Council Michael O’Hora said talks were under way between the council, its funding agent the National Roads Authority and the main contractor on the project, Bowen Somague Joint Venture. The talks relate to a payment of about €200,000 directly to the workers, representing the wages due.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1217/1224285737394.html

Deedsie

Noel Dempsey is stepping down from politics. Maybe he's not as big a fool as the majority think he is. Maybe he can finish on a high by getting this open for the people he serves

Dirigent

Deedsie wrote: »

Noel Dempsey is stepping down from politics. Maybe he's not as big a fool as the majority think he is. Maybe he can finish on a high by getting this open for the people he serves

But then again maybe he is. Don't hold your breath.

veryangryman

Deedsie wrote: »

Noel Dempsey is stepping down from politics. Maybe he's not as big a fool as the majority think he is.

How does this make him not a fool? Quitting a job can be done by many a dope - ive met them and they never struck me as beign super-intelligent

Dempsey is abandoning a sinking ship, possibly because of incidents such as the vandalism of his office and what happened to Harney. In fairness to him (and i do hate the self serving prick), you cant let the no-good nicks do that sort of crap.

That said, i am delighted that he is on the way out

Deedsie

veryangryman wrote: »

How does this make him not a fool? Quitting a job can be done by many a dope - ive met them and they never struck me as beign super-intelligent

Dempsey is abandoning a sinking ship, possibly because of incidents such as the vandalism of his office and what happened to Harney. In fairness to him (and i do hate the self serving prick), you cant let the no-good nicks do that sort of crap.

That said, i am delighted that he is on the way out

He would be a fool to run for election. He is showing some intelligence by stepping down and not running and being destroyed. A colossal **** he may be, but not a fool.

roosterman71

Dirigent wrote: »

Meanwhile the taxpayers suckers are on the hook for a full toll for a half motorway.

Untrue. Road users using the fully completed M7/M8 scheme are paying tolls. Not the taxpayer. Not people who avoid the toll.
And the toll is not for half a motorway, its for a completed section which forms part of the M7 and M8

Paddy74

Because this is a national motorway project, the country en masse is getting to hear about the plight of the subcontractors for once. But the reality is that Bowen are at this carry on constantly with all their subcontractors, whether they have been fully paid by the client themselves or not. I'm sure they're not the only ones, but I can only speak from personal experience. They screwed the previous subcontractor, replaced him with me, screwed me and replaced me with another guy, and, sure as eggs is eggs, screwed him also. Bowen don't give a toss about what happens to the little man or their families, and the sooner they get their comeuppance, the better.

Paddy

Dirigent

roosterman71 wrote: »

And the toll is not for half a motorway, its for a completed section which forms part of the M7 and M8

I pay the full motorway toll to drive on a cattle track.

Amtmann

Dirigent wrote: »

I pay the full motorway toll to drive on a cattle track.

To be clear: the tolled section of M7 runs from junction 21 (Borris) to the toll plaza itself. When you pay the toll, that is what you are paying for. NO other section of the motorway is tolled.

Irish and Proud

knipex wrote: »

Looka t it this way.

Main contractor has not been paid so he has no money to pay his subcontractors so they have no money to pay their employees.

The main contracts is due to be paid what he is owed but only if they put up a bond to ensure that if on appeal any portion of these monies are found not to be actually due that they are refunded.

In a normal situation the main contractor would go to the bank or its parent companies and the bond would be put in place, the subcontractors would get a line of credit based on the invoices due to them.

However these are not normal times. Lines of credit are difficult to come by particularly for anyone in the construction trade. Every bank is terrified to touch them. (would you lend money to a construction company ?)

Under law the fault for the workers not being paid lies squarely on the subcontractors. They in turn have a legal obligation to be paid based on their contracts.

The dispute is between the workers and their direct employers, the dispute between the subcontractors and the main contractor should be an entirely different matter.

Garda S Horgan wrote: »

God only knows the small print in those contracts and there are so many groups. I've sure that each one can point to a paragraph which says that the current action being taken, whether it's protesting or doing nothing or not making payments, is valid and according to their contract.

In the end someone will have to be the first one to take a step forward and it looks to me like the government need to intervene to get this motorway opened.

That is is not open already is a shame.

My view on it is that employers should not blame the fact that they are not paying their employees becuase they themselves have not been paid.
The employers should pay the employees and then continue to chase their own employers for the money.
Waiting for the whole thing to trickle down is going to take forever with a county council involved.

Yours etc,
GSH.

ForiegnNational wrote: »

Whilst this is a lovely theory I&P, I'm afraid you just have to look at the house building sector to see this is wishful thinking. Fleming construction down here in West Cork went under owing sub-contractors hundreds of thousands of pounds.

As Fleming Developments is a Limited Company, the directors are only exposed to the limit of their shareholding.

You will note that Mr Fleming himself made an exit to live in the UK and is now filing for bankruptcy under much more favourable laws.

End result is that the sub-contractors lose everything. This is the way it works under current legislation I'm afraid!

Some interesting points in the above posts - however, I think we need new laws to protect workers, sub-contractors and their rights - after all, if I go into my local supermarket and say that I'll pay for the goods in my trolley when I have the dosh later in the week, or get a plumber to fix my heating and tell him that he'll have to wait until I get my next pay cheque in a forthnight, I very much doubt that I'd get away with it. It looks like it's one rule for the small guys and one for the big.

Now, I know the above posters are just explaining the current situation, but the same situation brings to mind the ghastly prospect not getting several weeks of due wages before Christmas - l don't have childern myself, but how would you explain the fact that Santa didn't come - I'm sure many of the M7 workers have childern and if they haven't been paid since Nov 1st, I doubt the propects for Christmas Cheer would be too good. It's just not fair! :mad:

Thankfully, it doesn't seem like any of the M7 motorway has been damaged - I don't think the workers (though I would have some sympathy) would do themselves any favours in terms of public support. Some would probably also end up in prison which would be awful for them and their families. As for the M7, if there is a resolution, it will probably be after Christmas when it opens - suppose it's better than it opening in 2 years or worse, parts of it being dug up.

Roll on the M7!

Frank Black

cjpm wrote: »

Trust me, you don't know the ins and outs of this scheme or the claim that was lodged.

Remember Bowen were awarded this huge sum of money for a reason.

Council are just trying to save face taking it to arbitration, those in the know reckon the CoCo haven't a leg to stand on. The Conciliator obviously thought the same when he made his decision.


IMHO I think that Bowen have done remarkably well to have this scheme ready on time.

Most of the earth moving for this scheme was to be done in Summers 08 and 09. They were both washouts.....

You either (a) work for Bowens or (b) haven't a clue what you're talking about.
Previous to this project Bowen's had never won any road scheme of this size - and it showed in thier approach . The main reason they're in such trouble finantially is that they were unable to manage the job properly.
Just beacause an Conciliator awarded them a large sum means nothing. Concilliation takes place over a few days and the Conciliator has a week to make a ruling - it's all very much "he said, she said" . Arbitration is totally different - it will take place over the course of months and evidence will be heard 'courtroom style'. Expect a very different result come the time.

andykells

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Now, I know the above posters are just explaining the current situation, but the same situation brings to mind the ghastly prospect not getting several weeks of due wages before Christmas - l don't have childern myself, but how would you explain the fact that Santa didn't come - I'm sure many of the M7 workers have childern and if they haven't been paid since Nov 1st, I doubt the propects for Christmas Cheer would be too good. It's just not fair! :mad:


Roll on the M7!

Why, does Santa only come to people with money?

lukejr

Opening next Wednesday:

Deputy Noel Coonan said the dispute on the M7 Castletown/Nenagh stretch has been resolved clearing the way for the opening of the final section next Wednesday. The local Fine Gael TD welcomed the news saying: “The blockade has been lifted, sub-contractors have been paid and as a result plans are in train for the section to finally open next week weather permitting”.
“The dispute over the final section of the M7 has been settled and thankfully the roadway will open ahead of the New Year. Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been lobbying the Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey, Fred Barry CEO of the NRA and Peter Carey County Manager of Laois County Council to intervene and work together to resolve threats preventing the stretch opening.

“I welcome the resolution of the dispute which has cleared the way for the planned opening of the roadway next Wednesday and hopefully present weather conditions will not intervene,” concluded Deputy Coonan.

padma

lukejr wrote: »

Opening next Wednesday:

Yessssssss, this is good news, I need it open on Christmas eve next Friday, this is great!!!

ongarboy

fantastic - I'm heading down home on Thursday for the hols - perfect timing! :D:D

dergside

I'll be more reassured by a message from the NRA confirming that than a local politician trying to score a point in the local popularity contest.