MiM In Smurfit

thewondersheep

I wouldnt like to discuss anyone on the course directly, but some people did have a background that could relate to the job. I do have a friend that says that a smurfit finance masters got him his job in RBS in London, and I would think they make you a stronger candidate on paper than someone in our course. I think if I was sure IB or other types of high finance is what i wanted to pursue, I would personally follow this route.
But then again I dont work in this area and I dont recruit for them.

Slippers

I did a BSc in Statistics and a Higher Diploma in Statistics myself, but I like the idea of a broad course such as the MiM to help me get my bearings. I've also heard Trinity is launching a similar course next year called Global Business, so, I have some more research to do.

mloc

I have heard, from a source close to management in Smurfit, that there is gonna be a bit of a shake up next year. People are getting pretty pissed off with abysmal academic standards and particularly, entry standards.

The current reputation of the MiM as "4th year arts" and "you cant fail unless your cheque bounces" is something that is becoming a problem in terms of international reputation, which by all reports, is plummetting.

nellybelly

Well, i would guess that magically turning a Graduate Diploma level course into a Master's does not necessarily mean that the graduates are also magically worthy of the new qualification. I realise that there is now more work involved..but i'm almost sure that it doesn't warrant a Master's, which is generally seen as a higher degree following on from some suitable undergraduate degree.

IMHO, if anything, the creation of MiM has not resulted in a plummeting reputation for its own graduates (given that it is new, and GDip grads would not have been expected to have Master's level knowledge), but has probably served to dilute the reputation of other Master's degrees offered by Smurfit School.

Sionnachster

Well that all makes unpleasent reading!! I was pretty much looking forward to the prospect of starting the MiM next month in Smurfit....

My information from outside the university is nowhere near strong enough to counter these points but I'm not so sure Smurfit is well known for plummeting standards. Some of the research I did before applying pushed me heavily towards gaining a Smurfit qualification. The MiM Part-time suits me perfectly, I'm from a science background to Masters level and avoided business subjects my whole life. But since landing a strong management role I've realised the importance of some knowledge of Business in the workplace. Therefore, as I am in full time employment I hoped this course would promise to be an excellent learning curve.

For anyone else doing it, I was told that they expect a minimum of 20 hours a week study? Anyone got any views on this? Existing students of the 1-year option got any advice on how to tackle assignments or exams if they had to do it all again?

mloc - would you say the part-time version has the potential to improve as part of this shake up?

mloc

Ok I suppose I haven't been so objective in my "appraisal" so far; I'll try to be more comprehensive now. The statements below of course only represent my own opinion and I'm sure contrasting opinions may exist.

1) From my experience, the standard of grading etc., certainly compared to my undergraduate degree is somewhere between being a joke, slightly dubious and a result of pure laziness. Noone fails and when someone does, the uproar and "blaming the lecturer" approach usually ensures the mark is "corrected" to a passing grade.

2) The standard of student varies dramatically. As a masters degree, basic literacy is something you would expect but I can assure you there is a strong contingency lacking in this department. Obviously, as group work is exactly that; work marked as a group, it can prove frustrating when contributions from other members of the group are of pre-junior cert standard and fit only for filling the recycle bin. This might sound like exaggeration; unfortunately, it is not.

3) The standard of lectures/lecturers is VERY poor for a paid masters course in such a so called 'prestigious, exclusive' university. Most are PhD students with little or no experience, some have very poor english and others belong on a stage, not in a lecture theatre. In my opinion, I would say of the 15 or so lecturers this year, maybe 5 were good with about 2 being very good. None were excellent.

4) In my opinion, the degree provides you with no true competency in any area of business nor is it a recognised as a "business degree" in the conventional academic sense as a commerce degree would be; many students realise this afterwards and are forced into a position of persuing another masters (such as an MBS) at additional expense. In this regard, it really is diploma level. It would seem two modules have been tacked on the end along with what must be the biggest joke of a thesis (20k words between up to 3 people as your major thesis?) in order for it to justify the extra cost and credentials as a masters.

5) I would hazard a guess that the reason people who got jobs in this course did was very little to do with this masters and mostly to do with thier undergraduate degree.

So what are the pros?

1) If you have already completed a decent degree or are in any way academic, you won't have to work very much. At the workrate of say final year engineering or science, you could probably squeeze this masters into about 3 months.

2) It does give you a basic grounding in a wide variety of business subjects. Emphasise basic.

3) It's a great way to meet people, it's very social. I'm not going to lie and say you'll make lots of business contacts, you probably won't.

4) The campus is quite nice. Leafy and so on.

5) Most employers are still a bit slow on the uptake and don't realise the comparative worthlessness of this degree. In my opinion, a year of work experience in a decent large company and read of a few management books would produce a FAR better candidate and save you 12k in the process.

Thats it really. The fact that it's called MiM (that is, abbreviating the In to an i, basically for marketing purposes so people can say Mim) instead of MM or MMgt underlines the hollowness of the degree. In conclusion, in my experience, I would say that it is essentially like a year long summer camp for the business challenged.

Sionnachster

There I was thinking I was clever getting a second masters in a completely different filed of academia but now it is being filed under worthless??

mloc - you don't work for trinity do you!!!

Thanks for your opinion anyway, food for thought...... unfortunately, it's the only one that fits into my work and lifestyle so I may just proceed and be a blind fool ignoring the warnings.....

Anyone got any good opinions of the MiM? Please? I'll pay!!

mloc

To be honest, a lot of people doing the course at the moment seem to have a different opinion to me so I'd say you'll probably find some positive opinions soon enough!

Dinkie

Hi,

I'm starting the MiM (distance learning) in September.....

I've read all the various reviews, etc, etc.... but at the end of the day it covers everything I want a course to:

1. I have a science degree and it will give me a foundation in business (I felt I might be out of my depth doing an MBA and I wouldn't have been accepted to do it where I wanted to)

2. Its distance learning so fits around my work

3. It will give me a chance to meet people - also studying - so hopefully that will make it easier... and there will be a nice mix of ages and experience (again hopefully)

4. I can afford it

5. I have heard bad things about about Smurfit (esp here), but at the end of the day they do have a good name, and they have to live up to that. If the course isn't great, the onus is on them to improve it. If they don't, people won't do the course and they won't make any money.

6. I know people are saying that this is just another name for a grad dip, etc... but usually the only difference between grad dips and Masters is the depth of the project.

Personally I'm looking forward to starting... although i'm a bit nervous about having to study again

Sionnachster

Mloc - Thanks anyway, there is nothing wrong with varied opinions so I'd be nervous if there had been nothing bad to say.

Dinkie - You pretty much summed up my reasons for doing it also. My background is also in science and totally removed from the business world but it's time that changed which is why I'm also starting the MiM Distance Learning next month.

I was pretty sure my major study days were behind me and I'll need a total change of tack as it is distance learning, meaning a lot of it will be off your own back. I'm looking forward to it although I must admit to being pretty shocked at some of the negative things I read here.

20 hours a week study?!?! That's basically 3 hours after work each day? That's what worries me because that just won't happen!!!

mloc

They told us they wanted 50 hours a week (in the full time course). With the exception of the end of term rush to get projects done, I'd say my average week was about the 5 hour region. Maybe less.

Still got mostly As.

Économiste Monétaire

Everyone is different is regards to required study time. What will take you an hour to learn, might take another person 10 minutes or two hours. Twenty hours study is just a guideline.

burnedfaceman

There is a huge amount of intellectual snobbery going on in this thread,albeit certain students were poor and unmotivated. In general I found a large majority of my classmates absolutely no problem to work with.If your not working in groups with the weaker students you wont have a problem.

The course is designed for non business graduates to give them a broad understanding of business and in this regard the course allows students to gain a grounding in subjects they would not have otherwise covered and allows them the opportunity to decide which area of business they are interested in.

In this regard the course has delivered jobs where otherwise people would not have got them. If anyone is considering this course as containing subjects which will lead to employment in a specific specialised area they are wrong and should or should have pursue/pursued an MBS in that field.However if you come from a non-business background and wish to be in a position to get into business then this course is the one for you.

dx22

I agree with burnedfaceman, i have signed up for this course (part-time) and it does exactly what it says on the tin. If you read the course syllabus it is designed for non-business grads and it is very broad material.I am looking forward to it and just like any of these things im sure you will get as much out of it as you put in to it!!

niallf1

Has anyone got any advice on the subjects to do within this course?

Hornblower_live

Slippers wrote: »

I did a BSc in Statistics and a Higher Diploma in Statistics myself, but I like the idea of a broad course such as the MiM to help me get my bearings. I've also heard Trinity is launching a similar course next year called Global Business, so, I have some more research to do.

Slippers : Do you have any info on that? Is there a website? Any details?

Slippers

All I have is the name and that it's starting in 2009. I was in email contact with professor Brian Lucey in Trinity about the MSc in Finance and it came up, but I don't know if he's directly involved. Unless I'm mistaken, he posts here as blucey so if you start a thread in the TCD forum he might be able to get you some more information.

PiZaRR-0

Employers love smurfit graduates its something to do with the way they teach their students.

There's lots of talk about it having a great name. Most decent companies dont employ someone because they have gone to a college with a "good-name".

There's FAR more options than smurfit out there. From about 5 or so interviews I've gone to during the summer for varying position from finance to marketing any time I've mentioned smurfit most of them say why smurfit? Just becasue it has a good name?

Obviously most business related grads wont go near this course, but my main point is dont pick it because loads of people you know do it or because you think by going to smurfit you'll get a job easier. Thats nonsense.

In fact in one interview I went to in relation to a Funds Management place the interviewer told me quite frankly, no Smurfit MiM grad I've interviewed so far has been suitable, most seem to think because they have gone to smurfit they deserve the job. The interviewers seemed overall to take preference to other post grads from D.C.U. and D.I.T. and Maynooth.

So dont just do it for the sake of its apparent good reputation, also the admin in Smurfit is a joke.

burnedfaceman

I never stated you will get a job just because you attended smurfit rather I stated that employers loved smurfit graduates which originates from the manner in which they are thought. Constant group work,presentations etc.

The interviewer who stated no MIM graduates were unsuitable for the job was either being extremely unprofessional or trying to test your reaction.

Are you finished the MIM course this year? The careers adviser in smurfit advised the students on course not to go near fund management as its a dead end job with huge levels of staff turnover. I have two friends working in this field who would agree with this statement and are moving on from their jobs in the next few weeks

nellybelly

burnedfaceman wrote:

The careers adviser in smurfit advised the students on course not to go near fund management as its a dead end job with huge levels of staff turnover.

I think you're thinking of fund administration... I wouldn't go turning down any fund manager jobs if i were you!

burnedfaceman

sorry my bad

Slippers

If anyone wants to find out more about the modules in the Master in Management try this:

Go to http://www.ucd.ie/students/course_search.htm
Click 2008/09 modules
Click Keyword Search
Tick Level 4
Enter a module code
Click Search

Here are the module codes:

Semester 1:

BMGT42010 Business Research Methods
BMGT42020 Management and Organisational Behaviour (not much info)
BMGT42040 Strategic Management
MIS40410 Business Information Systems
HRM40260 Human Resource Management
MKT40320 Decision-Oriented Marketing

Semester 2:

FIN40700 Corporate Finance
ECON40330 Managerial Economics (almost no info)
ACC40490 Financial Reporting
BMGT42030 International Management
Option 1
Option 2

Summer:

Option 3
Option 4
MKT40340 Business Research Project

If you pick the entrepreneurship options (replacing the Diploma in Entrepreneurial Studies) your options will be:

BMGT42050 Entrepreneurship
BMGT42060 Opportunity Recognition

BMGT42100 New Venture Planning
BMGT42110 New Venture Finance

If you have been to UCD before, you can get a much better idea of the modules by looking at past exam papers (not all modules have exams and there's only been one year so far).

Go to www.ucd.ie/stuweb
Enter your student number and date of birth
Click Information for Students
Click Examination Past Papers
Click "by Module Code"
Use the codes above

I find past exams good for thinking about new courses because they show you what you're actually going to be doing but they can be a little off-putting when you haven't learnt the stuff yet.

Carlitos

bit off topic but my mates were in a superleague football team made up of MiM ppl. hopefully that'll materialize again this year it sounded good fun. i played for a few seasons during my degree its good craic.

welwyn

So... Dinkie and Sionnachster, Did ye end up doing the MiM in the end and if so, how did ye find it? Would ye recommend it to a science grad?