Wayne Rooney

Loomis

I just saw this article and wanted to hear people's opinions:

Our Wayne is better than Yours

I am still haunted by Wayne Rooney. Even now, sitting in my exile in the rust-belt of the Midwest, his short Everton career boomerangs back into my mind again and again. I was there in the Park End the day Wayne scored that goal. Sat there, in what - looking back - felt like a Royal box seat for Rooney's coming-of-age - I wasn't sure exactly what I was witnessing. Was Wayne going to be another false dawn like Danny Cadamarteri, the dreadlocked 17-year-old who came into the world of football feet first and hit the ground running, like a precocious young chess champ seemingly intent on playing a pickup game of speed chess with the Grand Masters.

We all remember what happened the day Rooney came on against a bulletproof Arsenal side. Little snapshots flicker back into my memory. Wayne's goal; looping over Seaman like a vandal's brick, a Krakatoan eruption at Goodison, my dad letting off a minute long ecstatic scream at the final whistle, and listening to the feverish hoarse voices at the train station talking about "our Wayne". The rest of this fairy-tale remains unwritten; Wayne didn't go on to drag us into a golden age, instead he left for Old Trafford. But as long as I live in the U.S. - 3,300 miles away and sheltered from his successes with Man Utd - Wayne will occupy a strange limbo in my heart. Everton were of course compensated with millions of pounds for letting him leave, but the Wayne I knew, the bullish mercurial street-fighter, I wouldn't swap him for a wilderness of millions.

No matter how much dirt emerges about Wayne Rooney, no matter how much the Scouse genius runs roughshod over his "Once a Blue, always a Blue" oath of fealty with obnoxious and hypocritical badge kissing, I will always regard him as a footballing God.

To get over Rooney's departure to Old Trafford, I treated the new version of him as a different player - and it wasn't to hard to do. Sir Alex Ferguson has straitjacketed some of his wilder tendencies, turning his feral flair and atavistic aggression into the more controlled player he wanted him to be. Whilst at Goodison, Rooney notched up 15 goals in 67 appearances, a record that - on the face of it - is inferior to his goalscoring rate at United, where he has scored 52 goals in 124 league appearances, but that isn't taking into account Moyes' softly softly approach. Of those 67 games for Everton, 27 of them were as a substitute, and the Everton side of that time doesn't hold a torch to the current United squad.

When watching Wayne now you see an awe-inspiring and excellent player; but I think that he could have become even better. The early Rooney - bursting past defenders, ruthlessly direct and blinkered, known to taunt defenders by putting his hands on his hips in mock boredom, who like a belligerent matchmaker, never ceased to revel in introducing the ball to the back of the net - won't be seen at Old Trafford.

Say what you want about your Wayne, but OUR Wayne had it all and in many ways was uncoachable. The glorious trajectory predicted by many for Rooney hasn't quite panned out and although he is the jewel in England's crown, he is overshadowed by others such as Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, and Kaka, players who should have been his peers in the high altitude world of top class football.

Even Wayne's performances for England have suffered since he moved to Manchester. As an Everton player, Rooney scored nine goals in 17 games for England - but now he is playing under Sir Alex, his tally for England is a far more modest five goals in 25 games. Reading through the match reports during his time with Everton, you are struck by the fact that he was lauded by the press for his finishing and "killer instinct" - two things that have been removed in the lobotomised talents of the United version of Rooney.

Sir Alex Ferguson got it very right when trying to coach out Cristiano Ronaldo's showboating flair, but he got it wrong with Wayne, as the young Scouser's direct early self was more akin to the Brazilian Ronaldo at Barcelona - a footballing egomaniac, and a lighting rod for every attack - attributes that no longer are present in Rooney.

Manchester United's millions bought a star, but by separating Rooney from his boyhood club, they never got the legend.

For the most part, I have to say I agree.
Rooney is a good player in my opinion. Not a great player. But has the potential to be better than he is currently. He is overshadowed by Ronaldo at United and by players like Kaka and Messi as the article touches on. Should he be in the same category as these players? I can see the argument but I'm not sure. But that may only be due to how I see him now. I'm not sure.
I do agree that he should be a better player than he is currently. He burst onto the stage and did impress hence his huge money move. Those high prices intrinsically imply the player should be amazing. I don't think he has improved much at United. He'll give you everything and do more than his share of work but he doesn't get enough goals or give match winning performances as a 30million price tag warrants. Playing him on the left of midfield doesn't help this and so I do agree that in that respect he has been straight-jacketed at United. His goal scoring at Everton was impressive considering he started very few games as the article points out. His potency in front of goal at United has been far from impressive to me. A point that struck me reading the article as I've noticed him squandering many chances in the past few games; especially one on one with the keeper.
While I see the comparison to Ronaldo (Brazilian) at the same age because he really was direct and played with such a hungry mentality (something that genuinely saddens me about Ronaldo - personally I think his first serious injury knocked this kind of spirit out of him) I think it's a bit thin because Ronaldo was untouchable for several years playing in that manner. He wasn't as good as Ronaldo but the comparison is a good one; his run and goal against Leeds United comes to mind. He doesn't show this aspect with United at all I feel.
Again Rooney is a good player but has potential to be far better. Up there with the top 3 or 4 players in the world? I'm not so sure - a huge part of that uncertainty is the influence of the hype the British media laud on any half decent British athlete.
Opinions? Do you agree he's been stifled at United or think it's just a case that he hasn't progressed as fast as and the way people expected? Can he get to the level of the world's best and should he already be there?

estebancambias

Dunphy says he's the best.:rolleyes: I always thought I end up hating him, although for some reason I don't.

mike65

No doubt the argumuent will be that Rooney now augments a double or triple pronged attack and as such is part of the well oiled machine that is the Utd attack - player not star.

Mike.

kryogen

I dont think he is a natural finisher, tbh i dont think he ever was..... 15 goals in 40 starts for Everton is hardly as clinical as you seem to be making out,he scored 6 league goals in 33 appearances in 2002-03 with everton in the league and 9 goals in 34 the next season....hardly fantastic finishing is it?

he didnt get more then 10 per season in the league for Everton, whereas at united he has yet to finish a season with less then 10 league goals, and his assists have improved drastically too

he is more a talismatic team player now i feel and his development was definatly helped by his move to a better club. I think he is as important to our team, maybe more important, then Ronaldo, along with Rio Ferdinand, and if any of you know me or have read my posts on the subject of Rooney, i have been one of his biggest critics in front of goal, always

i dont think he is clinical enough to be a striker...especially not our main striker!! but i think he can play the hole role, through the middle better then anyone else.

he drives a team on with his hunger and desire and for me he is up there with the other "greats" in the game at the moment, and if he could finish his dinner more often he would surpass them

PHB

That's just a stupid article.
Rooney was never Ronaldo. He is the white Pele. His best position is a withdrawn striker, and that's what he is effectively playing as now.

Wayne Rooney for me is now a great player, he is the 3rd best player in the United team this season after Ronaldo and Ferdinand. If I had to choose between which player to pick between Ronaldo and Rooney, I'd have an extremely tough time and probably pick Rooney.

Rooney is what makes everything tick at United. He creates space, he links up, he scores goals, he gets assists, he defends from the front, he starts counter-attacks, scores big goals, he does everything.

The only thing missing from his game currently is his finishing ability. He's not a natural finisher. For him, it's all about practice and sharpness. In pre-season his finishing was perfect. Then he got injuried, his finishing was still good, then he got injuried, and injuried, and since coming back from that, his finishing just isn't as good.
Get a good pre-season behind him (this year he'll have a proper summer and pre-season due to England being ****) and he'll be flying. This year in pre-season he looked like he could out-perform Ronaldo. Next season I think he'll come close.

If he adds that, he will be the greatest striker in the world, I've no doubt about that.

You know what the most amazing thing is? Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, aren't even at the peak of their game

Killme00

Wayne Rooney at 22 years old make everything happen for Man Utd on the pitch. He is already a freat player and will get better and better, i dont think he has hit his peak yet.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

He is the white Pele.

....!

Wayne Rooney for me is now a great player, he is the 3rd best player in the United team this season after Ronaldo and Rooney.

....!

estebancambias

The white Pele!!! Come on now.

Dave!

According to Soccernet.......... Premiership only:

Season / Club / Games started / Goals / Average

02/03 / Everton / 14 / 6 / 0.42
03/04 / Everton / 26 / 9 / 0.34

04/05 / ManUtd/ 24 / 11/ 0.45
05/06 / ManUtd/ 34 / 16/ 0.47
06/07 / ManUtd/ 33 / 14/ 0.42
07/08 / ManUtd/ 22 / 11/ 0.5

Tusky

estebancambias wrote: »

The white Pele!!! Come on now.

Well I suppose if the scale they are working if is that Anderson is god, then maybe it makes sense :rolleyes:

Pele : 761 apperances - 703 goals = goal every 1.1 games

Rooney : 233 apperances - 81 goals = goal every 2.8 games

Nalz

PHB wrote: »

Wayne Rooney for me is now a great player, he is the 3rd best player in the United team this season after Ronaldo and Rooney.

lol

estebancambias

estebancambias wrote: »

The white Pele!!! Come on now.

Dude, thats his song!

"Saw my mate, the other day,
Said to me, he's seen the white Pelé,
So I asked, who is he,
He goes by the name of Wayne Rooney,

WAYNE ROONEY, WAYNE ROONEY,

Goes by the name of Wayne Rooney,

WAYNE ROONEY, WAYNE ROONEY,

He goes by the name of Wayne Rooney."

PHB wrote:

Wayne Rooney for me is now a great player, he is the 3rd best player in the United team this season after Ronaldo and Rooney. If I had to choose between which player to pick between Ronaldo and Rooney, I'd have an extremely tough time and probably pick Rooney.

So Wayne Rooney is better than Wayne Rooney!? :pac::pac:



I know what you're saying. I always say, if u could clone one player and play him in every position to make an eleven man team you'd have to go with Rooney. Cue Liverpool fans quoting "A team of Carraghers"!!

chopperbyrne

A team of Carraghers! Pish!

We all dream of a team of Gary Breens!

PHB

I meant to say Ferdinand

White Pele is his song :P

wheres me jumpa

Rooney has come on so much this season. However I agree with article in a way, its more his work ethic that is impressing me these. He works so hard for the team and is a model professional imo. This is not a bad thing as the article suggests. Its more a compliment to Rooney, that he has the sublime skill but he also has the determination and commitment to work hard for his team.

Gegerty

This says it all

Without him united are average.

Edit: Stats are from February btw.

Mad_Max

wow only 9 goals in 10 games without him but 41 in 16 with him. Didn't realise there was such a gap!

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

what makes everything. He creates space, he links up, he scores goals, he gets assists, he defends from the front, he starts counter-attacks, scores big goals, he does everything.

cough* cough*

Dirk Kuyt

:cool:

Unearthly

Mr Alan wrote: »

cough* cough*

Dirk Kuyt

:cool:

Ah yes

The man who is in between Diomansy Kamara and Danny Landzaat in the goals chart for the premiership :cool:

Pigman II

PHB wrote: »

He is the white Pele.

In fairness to Rooney I saw a photo of that auld hooker he was with.

Any of us here would also have needed to pop a viagra beforehand.

Mr Alan

and has been out on the wing most of the season.

just pointing out that the things PHB is praising Rooney for are also true of Kuyt.

the difference is a little bit of skill and hype;)

Tusky

Mr Alan wrote: »

and has been out on the wing most of the season.

just pointing out that the things PHB is praising Rooney for are also true of Kuyt.

the difference is a little bit of skill and hype;)

Ah come on now Alan. You surely cant believe that.

First of all, Kuyt has not been out of the wing for most of the season. This 4-2-3-1 formation has only come into regular use in the second half of the season.

Secondly, although Kuyt & Rooney are similar types of players, the gap in quality between them is massive.

Mr Alan

i think Kuyt is a very underrated tbh. frustrating sometimes but against top teams he is very often our best player. i'm not saying he is better than rooney. but i think rooney has not developed into the player people thought he would, certainly the player i thought he would.

Nunu

Don't agree with the article. If Rooney had stayed the way he was as a precocious teenager at Everton that would not have represented progress/development at all.

I think Rooney is a great player and the best we have at Utd. He has all the attributes I look for in a great player. On his finishing I honestly think this is just a blip...I always thought he was an excellent finisher and will prove so again in the future.

Ronaldo is the star now because of his ridiculous goalscoring exploits and rightly so, but I am positive that Rooney will also have a few 40+ goals seasons before his Utd career ends. In fact, I'd expect it to happen the first fully uninterrupted pre-season/full season he gets.

pickarooney

I think the football accountants in their infinite, stat-smeared wisdom, have completely missed the point of the article which was how Rooney, Gascoigne-like, inspired moments of dopamine-fuelled awe and unhoped-for hope for a bridesmaid club and how he's now an effective, if viscerally unmoving cog in the United machine. I kind of agree, even if it's so much sentiment over contribution.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

and has been out on the wing most of the season.

just pointing out that the things PHB is praising Rooney for are also true of Kuyt.

the difference is a little bit of skill and hype;)

and goals

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

i think Kuyt is a very underrated tbh. frustrating sometimes but against top teams he is very often our best player. i'm not saying he is better than rooney. but i think rooney has not developed into the player people thought he would, certainly the player i thought he would.

I actually think Kuyt is quite good. He's a workhorse which i always like. He just seems to at times, lack the ability to get into the real danger areas to score more. His finishing one on one is probably better than Rooneys at the moment (which isnt saying much about Wayne) but I think Rooneys advantage is that he's smarter about how he gets into those positions. Maybe if rafa stopped with the defensive mindset and allowed him to be more of a central striker rather than a "defensive striker/defensive winger" he would be freed up to score more!:eek::eek:

leninbenjamin

PHB wrote: »

He is the white Pele.

can i have whatever you're smoking?

PHB wrote: »

Wayne Rooney for me is now a great player, he is the 3rd best player in the United team this season after Ronaldo and Ferdinand.

I disagree. i think he's better than Ronaldo. His work rate is phenomenal for someone in his position, he creates a massive amount of space for the others, which allows Ronaldo to sneak inside and poach his goals tbh. It's without Rooney, as opposed to Ronaldo that United look a blunt force. in fact i'd probably rate him above Ferdinand in terms of his importance to the team, albeit ever so marginally.

kerash

leninbenjamin wrote: »

can i have whatever you're smoking?



I disagree. i think he's better than Ronaldo. His work rate is phenomenal for someone in his position, he creates a massive amount of space for the others, which allows Ronaldo to sneak inside and poach his goals tbh. It's without Rooney, as opposed to Ronaldo that United look a blunt force. in fact i'd probably rate him above Ferdinand in terms of his importance to the team, albeit ever so marginally.

I'd pretty much agree with this. I dont support united, but I think, judging by this season Rooney is looking like he has that potential to be a great player. I've enjoyed watch him this season and if Ronaldo had his work rate and could create a bit more for himself he would be the best player in the world. He can learn from Rooneys recent form.
Although I would say Rooney does a fair bit of poaching himself;) Its great for the game to have players like Rooney, Ronaldo, Torres and Drogba to be fit and in form and interesting to see who can cut it...