Is the term "Go to a Doctor <thread locked>" overused in PI?

tallaght01

Wibbs wrote: »

While I take tallaght01's points a forum like PI by it's very nature will involve people looking for advice from others on personal issues. Otherwise call it the big dandelion fun bus forum or close it.

Of course there is a sliding scale. If someone appears to have serious emotional problems or the beginnings of same there will be many suggesting counseling of some nature or other and rightfully so. At times that call can even be all too repetitive. Similarly when it comes to legal advice too on divorce/seperation etc.

Given that a good majority of the issues that do crop up there are of a relationship nature, or of a "minor" issue hardly requiring any form of medical intervention/counseling, then getting different opinions is hardly harmful. Their own friends will give them similar advice. PI posters are just adding to that. Sometimes it's something they wouldn't want to share with friends and/or family and the anonymity of the interweb lets them get it out. Sometimes just the act of writing the stuff in the first place may help.

The other difference to a physical illness issue is that most people will have some insight, good or bad into the emotional problem the poster may have. I don't have psoriasis so any advice(which I wouldn't give anyway) would be pointless beyond see a specialist. I have been dumped, I have been heartbroken, I have been bereaved, I have been frustrated etc, so I and others may have an angle on this that may prove useful to the poster. It's not really a valid comparison.

In any case, like any profession counseling has its share of muppets. Indeed it seems to have more than it's fair share. Pretty much anyone can set themselves up and call themselves one to boot. Indeed I can think of more than one poster who was given utterly and obvious to anyone daft advice by a counselor. In those cases the majority of the posters suggested a different counselor.

As for amusement fodder, any guff like that is usually stamped on bloody quick. Píss taking of any nature is not tolerated.

I htink that's fair enough. I have to log out to view PI, so I don;t often look at it. But from the times I have seen it, it's mostly people with low grade problems getting advice from people, where there isn't ahuge potential for tings to go terribly wrong, if we're going to be honest.

However, I remember seeing two posts (one very recently) where the OP seemed to have signs of depression. Now, in one of these cases, no-one picked it up, which is fair enough as they're not trained.
In the other case, i think 2 people mentioned getting help, but somebody else seemed to diagnose the OP with bipolar cyclothymia, and I think another suggested performing cognitive behaviour therapy on themselves, if I remember correctly.

This is where I see the potential problems.

I also think we can't act as surrogates because some counsellors aren't up to the job. Some docs aren't up to the job, but it doesn't mean we should start dishing out medical advice in Bio+Med. People should be asked to go to their GP. He/she will know who the good counsellors are locally, or will at least always be able to put a poster in touch with a qualified clinical psychologist/psychiatrist/counsellor etc as appropriate.


You mention that you've been dumped etc, so you can give advice on it. But I know a LOT of people who've been dumped, that I wouldn't want giving advice on an anonymous forum. People who are trained to give advice will tailor ot to the person's lifestyle etc. They will also, very importantly, gauge things like the person's insight into their problem, and their understanding of any advice given. There's a whole process to go through in order to be effective at giving effective help.

I also worry that we don't know who the person is giving out the advice. 15 year old kids can go in there, and give advice presumably.

There's also a cohort of users who offer advice on lots and lots of threads. These are the people I worry mostly about. They post very eloquently, with a lot of confidence, and that gives them quite an authoritative air. This is exactly what vulnerable people look for, and it's what they latch onto.

And when I mentioned PI being used for entertainment, I meant it was there to entertain those who are viewing it, much like, say, the problem page in the daily mirror. I wasn't implying that you guys don't clamp down o piss-taking. In fairness, from my limited reading on PI, I've never seen someone mocked.

Like I said above, I disagree with there being a PI forum, but I accept that my opinions are purely academic. I know PI won't disappear. I'm not asking for it to disappear, just voiceing some concerns. I accept that, by and large, it's harmless, and it's well intentioned. I know there are people who have been helped in PI, but I just worry about those we don't hear a lot back from, or those we hear too much back from.

But I do think we need to continuously re-examine both our motives for having the forum, and our motives for giving advice.

norrie rugger

Overheal wrote: »

I dunno. If a doctor/mod wants to put their PHD where their mouth is that would be different. And by that I mean linking their real life persona and qualifications to their User ID..?

Tee hee

But your point is a good one, unless they do that then boards.ie is the source of information
Then again, I doubt many of the lads in Bio-Med would give out serious advice without a direct consultation

Jack B. Badd

seamus wrote: »

Any treatments which are likely to cause harm to the poster are going to be prescription-only. Anything else may not work as a recommended treatment, but shouldn't be dangerous to the poster.

I can think of a number non-prescription treatments that can be harmful if taken in sufficient quantity or combined in the "right" way...

Stark

cormie wrote: »

What about suggesting a site like this: http://earthclinic.com/CURES/hair_loss.html ? Would that put boards in a risky position? It's natural remedies only..

That earthclinic site is brilliant and once Again, Apple Cider Vinegar seems to do the trick for another cure.

Everyone should check out some of the things on that site, really interesting and remember folks, doctors only know so much. Take cancer and HIV/Aids for example, apparently there is substantial evidence that sticking to a raw food diet will actually cure and rid your body of both diseases simply because you are not eating any bad foods with toxins etc, so the viruses have nothing to live off. Compared to the likes of chemotherapy etc which try and fight the disease with other things that aren't exactly good for your body.

Can't recommend it highly enough after their hydrogen peroxide cured me of my gingervitis.

Edit:

cormie wrote: »

I'm just going by what I've been told by somebody who has been doing a lot of research on the raw food diet lately. He says there is substantial evidence anyway But yes, other than the possibility of it curing you, it's still a much healthier lifestyle to lead so there's no negatives about being on a raw food diet. So if I thought I had cancer, I'd go to the doc straight away and probably become a raw foodest straight away too.

I don't know the ins and outs of medical science and I'm not claiming to at all, just going by what I've been told by somebody who has researched the subject quite extensively. It could be other factors besides toxins which the diet attributes to. And no need for the cheek Dazzler

Oh dear god, you were serious.

Esel

^ "Forget it Jake, it's Cormie..."

I've taken up this raw food thing - the potatoes are a b!tch though!

Wibbs

tallaght01 wrote: »

I htink that's fair enough. I have to log out to view PI, so I don;t often look at it. But from the times I have seen it, it's mostly people with low grade problems getting advice from people, where there isn't ahuge potential for tings to go terribly wrong, if we're going to be honest.

Pretty much.

However, I remember seeing two posts (one very recently) where the OP seemed to have signs of depression. Now, in one of these cases, no-one picked it up, which is fair enough as they're not trained.
In the other case, i think 2 people mentioned getting help, but somebody else seemed to diagnose the OP with bipolar cyclothymia, and I think another suggested performing cognitive behaviour therapy on themselves, if I remember correctly.

Fair enough and `i can see the possible problems. The other thing is these people may for the first time be getting feedback, any feedback on their emotional state. They may feel they may have a problem but have not coalesced it into a thought or words. Friends and family may not have a clue and while not nearly ideal, a place where they can air their issues anonymously can only be a good thing if the alternative is no outlet at all. Of course one shouldn't diagnose online, whether qualified or not(the troll variable alone would be an issue). Of course a trained and good counselor would be the ideal when emtional mental issues have gotten to a certain point, but in the absence of that or even the absence of that as an self realised option to such as you referenced it's something. Not a lot I grant you but something.

You mention that you've been dumped etc, so you can give advice on it. But I know a LOT of people who've been dumped, that I wouldn't want giving advice on an anonymous forum.

I wrote an angle on the problem. Yes there may be advice. Fine. In those case they can choose to ignore or take it. Often different angles are what's needed and when it's not the call for go to a counselor is usually fast on the heels of that realisation. The stickys have good resources for that too.

People who are trained to give advice will tailor ot to the person's lifestyle etc. They will also, very importantly, gauge things like the person's insight into their problem, and their understanding of any advice given. There's a whole process to go through in order to be effective at giving effective help.

Of course and the interweb giving only one side of an edited issue is hardly ideal, but it exists as a forum so there it is.

I also worry that we don't know who the person is giving out the advice. 15 year old kids can go in there, and give advice presumably.

True and it would be an issue and sometimes it is if muppetry starts from any age group. That's pretty much hopped on too.

There's also a cohort of users who offer advice on lots and lots of threads. These are the people I worry mostly about. They post very eloquently, with a lot of confidence, and that gives them quite an authoritative air. This is exactly what vulnerable people look for, and it's what they latch onto.

Yes but it's also edited by others. If someone comes on with an authoritative air and spouts utter shíte they'll get hopped on fierce quick. I've seen well respected mods and "heavy duty" posters banned from there for that. On more than one occasion.

And when I mentioned PI being used for entertainment, I meant it was there to entertain those who are viewing it, much like, say, the problem page in the daily mirror. I wasn't implying that you guys don't clamp down o piss-taking. In fairness, from my limited reading on PI, I've never seen someone mocked.

No matter what you do that may invoke purient interest you'll always have that. Car crash mentality. I personally would ignore that unless they post.

Like I said above, I disagree with there being a PI forum, but I accept that my opinions are purely academic. I know PI won't disappear. I'm not asking for it to disappear, just voiceing some concerns. I accept that, by and large, it's harmless, and it's well intentioned. I know there are people who have been helped in PI, but I just worry about those we don't hear a lot back from, or those we hear too much back from.

In anything you can't hope to help everyone. The samaritans don't help everyone, the mental health workers don't help everyone, even with the best will in the world. No one has all the answers or quite simply people wouldn't be found tomorrow, dead by their own hand. I knew a guy who was getting some of the best mental care in the world(and in this country that's some trick from what I saw) from both very caring and highly qualified people who worked their asses off and he was lost. They're fault? Of course not. They did everything they could. Shít I'm not comparing something like PI to those previous groups like the samaritans or the care that guy got etc. Not even close, but it does serve a purpose, however small. If even only as a place to rant.

But I do think we need to continuously re-examine both our motives for having the forum, and our motives for giving advice.

I agree with you on that.

[QUOTE-Stark]Oh dear god, you were serious.[/QUOTE]Seems so. Now a raw food diet, or a very well balanced high nutrient, low calories diet based on that premise is good for you when compared to chomping on burgers. No question. It'll likely help you avoid many cancers, but saying it cures them? That's near enough like telling a life long smoker that if he stops smoking when the tumour hits it'll stop it in its tracks. Not far off.