Barca vs. Man Utd (first leg)

Mr.Nice Guy

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally Im not arguing against his performance (if u could call it that) last night, what Im arguing about is the absolutely excessive level of abuse he's getting about it. Its one thing to highlight the flaws using last night as an example. But its gone way OTT. It stinks of people having a go cos its United and Ronaldo.

He is getting a lot of abuse no doubt but I have to say I think he's brought most of it on himself. If you looked at Rooney last night, even though he was clearly unhappy with how things were going for him he still got on with the job. He was ineffective, as many of the players were, but he got on with it.

What pissed me off about Ronaldo was seeing him standing there hands on hips, pouting, all while play is still going on. Then he's there hands raised screaming to the sky and it just looked like he was playing to the cameras. It's not the Ronaldo show it's meant to be a CL semi-final.

At the end of the day if his attitude had been right and he had worked hard all evening I think there would be less abuse, but I believe he completely lost his head and was very unprofessional in how he behaved. It can't have been good for the other players to see one of the most inspirational players in the side throwing his toys out of the pram at almost every opportunity just because the ref doesn't give him a free-kick. As I said last night if Keano had been around I reckon he'd have given him a bollocking and told him to get on with the job. No one did so and it went on all evening. He doesn't need to behave like that.

Boggles

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He is getting a lot of abuse no doubt but I have to say I think he's brought most of it on himself. If you looked at Rooney last night, even though he was clearly unhappy with how things were going for him he still got on with the job. He was ineffective, as many of the players were, but he got on with it.

I've never seen Rooney looking so unhappy, twice he look at the bench and put his arms out.

JimiTime

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

At the end of the day if his attitude had been right and he had worked hard all evening I think there would be less abuse, but I believe he completely lost his head and was very unprofessional in how he behaved. It can't have been good for the other players to see one of the most inspirational players in the side throwing his toys out of the pram at almost every opportunity just because the ref doesn't give him a free-kick. As I said last night if Keano had been around I reckon he'd have given him a bollocking and told him to get on with the job. No one did so and it went on all evening. He doesn't need to behave like that.

In fairness, I don't think there'd be any abuse if he had his attitude right. Combine that with the absence of hype, and we'd be probably sympathising with him! Saying that, he won a penalty, should have had a penalty, and was the only player that looked like he'd have a go at Barca when he had the ball.

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

Not his fault now is it?

No. But then the negative performance assessment of Dunphy is not intended and will not reach his ears. It instead reaches and riles the ears of those fans and members of the media who are responsible for and feed the hype.

Spud83

Boggles wrote: »

Gerrard offered nothing going forward, midfield or going back. He said so himself, worse performance he has ever put in against Arsenal.

Does that make him any less of a great player, not at all.

I'll let people into a little secret.

Pele, Maradona, Best, Baggio, Charlton, Eusebio, etc all had off days too.

But dis they have the attitude to go along with the off day?

Boggles wrote: »

I've never seen Rooney looking so unhappy, twice he look at the bench and put his arms out.

If I am correct at least one of those times was when he was being switched to the left so he was receiving instructions.

Boggles

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

What pissed me off about Ronaldo was seeing him standing there hands on hips, pouting, all while play is still going on. Then he's there hands raised screaming to the sky and it just looked like he was playing to the cameras. It's not the Ronaldo show it's meant to be a CL semi-final.

Apartently he talks to his dead father, whatever gets him through I suppose.

Different players have different quirks, some look like they are saying the Rosari for the 90 minutes, others shout at the ref and kick players, some talk to dead relatives. Wouldn't read too much into it.

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No. But then the negative performance assessment of Dunphy is not intended and will not reach his ears. It instead reaches and riles the ears of those fans and members of the media who are responsible for and feed the hype.

I think and hope people don't take what Dunphy has to say on board.

Ronaldo as I remember is in his team of the year, must be packed with codders!

Spud83

Boggles wrote: »

Apartently he talks to his dead father, whatever gets him through I suppose.

Different players have different quirks, some look like they are saying the Rosari for the 90 minutes, others shout at the ref and kick players, some talk to dead relatives. Wouldn't read too much into.

I f**ckin would when the rest of the team is running there asses of trying to mark Barca players and win the ball back. Do it all you want when the ball is out of play but do not sit/stand there while the game is still going on.

Boggles

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

I f**ckin would when the rest of the team is running there asses of trying to mark Barca players and win the ball back. Do it all you want when the ball is out of play but do not sit/stand there while the game is still going on.

He was playing up front on his own? Completely isolated, the last thing I wanted to see was him in the penalty box as well, throwing shapes at Barcas passing, it would have just descended into more of a game of backs and forwards then it already was.

He gave the ball away once last night, use that as your starting point to critise his performance. Rooney, Park, Carrick were far worse than him, i'd like to see 3 essays on slating them.

Just to be fair.

Mr.Nice Guy

Boggles wrote: »

Apartently he talks to his dead father, whatever gets him through I suppose.

Different players have different quirks, some look like they are saying the Rosari for the 90 minutes, others shout at the ref and kick players, some talk to dead relatives. Wouldn't read too much into.

I don't think he was doing that though. It seemed more of a "For God's sake" type of attitude to me.

There's a good article by Ian Herbert in The Independent on Ron's performance. I'm inclined to agree with his final paragraphs...

But this was a night which made the Best comparisons short-lived. A more abiding image will be of the Portugal international on the right flank, arms thrown out ahead, in frustration at a free-kick refused after Zambrotta had put a stop to a run early in the second half.

This match was, Barcelona's Lionel Messi had insisted, "not a game between Cristiano and me". But though Messi departed after little more than an hour, his contribution threw Ronaldo's into contrast. It was as much an appointment with history for Messi as Ronaldo; as much a test of whether the Argentine could dominate the big stage. For Messi, the concerns are physical. He wept when he hobbled out of his last Champions League game with a recurrence of the thigh problem that may be the result of a childhood hormone deficiency.

His unkempt hair and shuffling walk are as far from Ronaldo's gel and confident stride as you'll get. But it was Messi who most proved his worth. His angular reverse pass beyond Wes Brown which allowed Andres Iniesta to skip past Owen Hargreaves and cross low from the left was a threat of things to come.

When Paul Scholes and Michael Carrick conspired to stunt his runs, Messi worked his way sideways and delivered to Eric Abidal to cross from the left. He glided past Patrice Evra and Park Ji Sung in turn, a juggle and flick over Evra's head and control on his thigh proving theirs was a match of unequals. The exquisite interchange of passes between Messi and Iniesta which sent Samuel Eto'o in, in the second half, was, as Ferguson observed, Barcelona's clearest chance.

Ronaldo remains top of the Champions League scorers chart, a goal ahead of Messi by dint of the Argentine's injury. But as Barcelona's finest exited to the roar of "Messi", who left the stadium with an ice pack around his thigh, it was clear who has most to prove on the grandest stage.

I have to say when I think back on this game that will be my abiding image. Ronaldo letting out his frustrations.

Spud83

Boggles wrote: »

He was playing up front on his own? Completely isolated, the last thing I wanted to see was him in the penalty box as well, throwing shapes at Barcas passing, it would have just descended into more of a game of backs and forwards then it already was.

He gave the ball away once last night, use that as your starting point to critise his performanc. Rooney, Park, Carrick were far worse than him, i'd like to see 3 essays on slating them.

Just to be fair.

Rooney played at right back for the majority of the game. He shouldn't be criticised Ferguson should. I have criticised Park before, and I am sure I will again. He is headless chicken. Nani should have started. Carrick done his job, sat in front of the back four and offered protection, he had very little options when he got the ball as his team were so deep and compact.

I'm not saying Ronaldo should be back in the box, never once did I say that he should however at least be tracking back to the half way, and trying to but pressure on the opposing defenders when in position. He never did this.

EDIT: My first post in this thread critisced Park and a lot more besides ronaldo.

Xavi6

Boggles wrote: »

He was playing up front on his own? Completely isolated, the last thing I wanted to see was him in the penalty box as well, throwing shapes at Barcas passing, it would have just descended into more of a game of backs and forwards then it already was.

He gave the ball away once last night, use that as your starting point to critise his performance. Rooney, Park, Carrick were far worse than him, i'd like to see 3 essays on slating them.

Just to be fair.

Once? So you took note of every single pass or run he made? No player gives the ball away only once in 90 mins. Even Xavi gave it away twice last night.

And he isolated himself by not holding the ball up.

Boggles

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

There's a good article by Ian Herbert in The Independent on Ron's performance. I'm inclined to agree with his final paragraphs...

What utter bollixx, so If Ronaldo scores the winner for United next week he is better than Messi because that will be the abiding image.

Messi is fantastic and I hope he stays that way, but he is injury prone and it could go either way. There will be no answers of who is better or worse this year.

A simple fact is.

Messi, Eto, Iniesta, Xavi, Deco could not break down a makeshift defense with 65% possession at home.

Boggles

Xavi6 wrote: »

Once? So you took note of every single pass or run he made? No player gives the ball away only once in 90 mins. Even Xavi gave it away twice last night.

And he isolated himself by not holding the ball up.

So you made note of every single pass and run Xavi made?

Xavi6

Boggles wrote: »

So you made note of every single pass and run Xavi made?

Only as much a note as you did of Ronaldo.

Boggles

Xavi6 wrote: »

Only as much a note as you did of Ronaldo.

Do you wana get a coffee and compare?

jackdaw

Can't believe Ronaldo missed that penalty ....

If only united play that bad against Chelsea ..

no way Barça can win ..

no way

no way

no way

Please united don't let it happen!!!!!!

this is the only time im up for ye!!

Mr.Nice Guy

Boggles wrote: »

What utter bollixx, so If Ronaldo scores the winner for United next week he is better than Messi because that will be the abiding image.

No if Ronaldo terrorises Barcelona's defence as Messi did to United's (despite not lasting the 90 minutes due to only returning to full fitness) then maybe Ronaldo can justify the hype that is said about him.

The abiding image of Messi from the first-leg is that of a guy who put on a footballing masterclass.

Considering how Kaka hurt United last season at Old Trafford there has to be a real fear of messi doing likewise.

Xavi6

Boggles wrote: »

Do you wana get a coffee and compare?

Lol sure. Tbh I'd say Xavi's percentage for passes/crosses/dribbles complete was higher than Ronaldo's last night.

deisedevil

Xavi6 wrote: »

Lol sure. Tbh I'd say Xavi's percentage for passes/crosses/dribbles complete was higher than Ronaldo's last night.

Xavi was very effective last night. Ronaldo wasn't.

Boggles

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

No if Ronaldo terrorises Barcelona's defence as Messi did to United's (despite not lasting the 90 minutes due to only returning to full fitness) then maybe Ronaldo can jsutify the hype that iss aid about him.

Why does Ronaldo have to justify the hype, he didn't create it.

He plays football in a manner most people like to see it being played, he does throw his hands in the air and shouts at his dead father, is that worse than a player that intentially kicks an oppenent because it's not going his way and gets sent off?

I think what Rooney does to Referee's is disgusting, you don't have to be a lip reading expert to figure out the level of abuse he dishes out. Did Eamo mention that when he was talking about Rooney being a model pro? Did he mention how he dived against Blackburn, or that when he didn't get the peno, he tried his best to Break Samba's leg?

Boggles

Xavi6 wrote: »

Lol sure. Tbh I'd say Xavi's percentage for passes/crosses/dribbles complete was higher than Ronaldo's last night.

Big time, but I think Valdez was better than Ronaldo last night, but Ronaldo was not Uniteds worse player by a long shot. But the lad will never get fairness, it's just part of football.

Sizzler

The fact that Eamo said Scholes was class says it all

Utd were poor I thought and I was expecting Barca to score 1-2 goals after the way they started the 2nd half, never came so a good result in the end. As the saying goes, play bad and get a 'result' you can't really argue. What I couldnt defend was the mentaility of the performance, i.e. hang back and hope for the best and also the team set up. Park was pants, works hard, but so does Robbie Savage and I dont want him in my team. Scholes, sorry, Anderson should have been in there (assuming he was fit!).

Next week's game should be a cracker as Utd have to go for it.

Mr.Nice Guy

Boggles wrote: »

Why does Ronaldo have to justify the hype, he didn't create it.

He plays football in a manner most people like to see it being watched, he does throw his hands in the air and shouts at his dead father, is that worse than a player that intentially kicks an oppenent because it's not going his way and gets sent off?

How do you know he's shouting at his dead father? I understand he celebrates his goals by looking up to his dead father but when he's screaming upwards in frustration I doubt he's blaming his dead father. :rolleyes:

Boggles wrote:

I think what Rooney does to Referee's is disgusting, you don't have to be a lip reading expert to figure out the level of abuse he dishes out. Did Eamo mention that when he was talking about Rooney being a model pro? Did he mention how he dived against Blackburn, or that when he didn't get the peno, he tried his best to Break Samba's leg?

I don't like seeing what Rooney does to referees either but two wrongs don't make a right. It doesn't alter the fact that Ronaldo's diving is a joke.

Boggles

Sizzler wrote: »

The fact that Eamo said Scholes was class says it all

Utd were poor I thought and I was expecting Barca to score 1-2 goals after the way they started the 2nd half, never came so a good result in the end. As the saying goes, play bad and get a 'result' you can't really argue. What I couldnt defend was the mentaility of the performance, i.e. hang back and hope for the best and also the team set up. Park was pants, works hard, but so does Robbie Savage and I dont want him in my team. Scholes, sorry, Anderson should have been in there (assuming he was fit!).

Next week's game should be a cracker as Utd have to go for it.

Without Scholes last night United would have been out of this competition in my opinion.

I'm positive Anderson wasn't fit and even if he was he would have played instead of Park not Scholes who was Uniteds best player last night.

Boggles

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

How do you know he's shouting at his dead father? I understand he celebrates his goals by looking up to his dead father but when he's screaming upwards in frustration I doubt he's blaming his dead father. :rolleyes:



I don't like seeing what Rooney does to referees either but two wrongs don't make a right. It doesn't alter the fact that Ronaldo's diving is a joke.

But Eamo doesn't discuss both wrongs does he? Just all the wrongs for one person and all the rights for another.

Has he once came out this season and praised Ferdinand properly, he was a once favoured whipping boy.

I love Dunphy but I thats for entertainment not his knowlegdge of football.

Spud83

Boggles wrote: »

Without Scholes last night United would have been out of this competition in my opinion.

I'm positive Anderson wasn't fit and even if he was he would have played instead of Park not Scholes who was Uniteds best player last night.

Disagree on the best player part. He played well but I think Rio was our best player. Thats just a difference of opinion though. Anderson must not have been fit for him not to even come off the bench, why the hell was Giggs brought on? I swear Fergie is determined to get him equalling Sir Bobbys record this season although if we dont make it to the final he can kiss that good-bye.

Mr.Nice Guy

Boggles wrote: »

But Eamo doesn't discuss both wrongs does he? Just all the wrongs for one person and all the rights for another.

Has he once came out this season and praised Ferdinand properly, he was a once favoured whipping boy.

I love Dunphy but I thats for entertainment not his knowlegdge of football.

Dunphy is doing a bit of panto with his comments I think. I agree he should be more balanced in what he says.

Boggles

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Disagree on the best player part. He played well but I think Rio was our best player. Thats just a difference of opinion though. Anderson must not have been fit for him not to even come off the bench, why the hell was Giggs brought on? I swear Fergie is determined to get him equalling Sir Bobbys record this season although if we dont make it to the final he can kiss that good-bye.

No way Anderson was fit, the game was screaming out for him last night.

Xavi6

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Dunphy is doing a bit of panto with his comments I think. I agree he should be more balanced in what he says.

Balanced schmalanced. Where's the entertainment value in that?

Boggles

Xavi6 wrote: »

Balanced schmalanced. Where's the entertainment value in that?

Exactly, I don't want Eamo ever to be balanced....You Creep, Bill!

Sizzler

Boggles wrote: »

Without Scholes last night United would have been out of this competition in my opinion.

LOL !

Boggles wrote: »

I'm positive Anderson wasn't fit and even if he was he would have played instead of Park not Scholes who was Uniteds best player last night.

Rio. Without question. (Apart from that lunge at E'to )

Mr.Nice Guy

Xavi6 wrote: »

Balanced schmalanced. Where's the entertainment value in that?

I suppose you're right. Wouldn't want to lose out on moments of brilliance such as "Keane's right John...he's right about EVERYTHING."

Sizzler

Xavi6 wrote: »

Balanced schmalanced. Where's the entertainment value in that?

You might want to change your Avatar there son, he didn't exactly destroy Utd last night. Maybe you change your log on to Messi

kryogen

I voted draw but i honsetly though it would be score draw....and when i saw us get a peno i felt it was too early in the game.....was unsure if Ronaldo had settled enough in the opening two minutes to be focused enough to put it away...... he wasnt...

I was embarassed to be a united fan last night....its a bit extreme maybe but its my sentiments, it was like watching Liverpool play ffs, no intention of passing the ball and attacking.....i hated every minute of the game tbh.... I thought Wes was poor at centre back, Rio was immense however, barring one incident.... Scholes still has the attitude for these games and got stuck in, that was very important...Rooney was non existent and i blame Fergie for that...... it was a joke putting him wide right.....i actually thought he was playing right back a couple of times.....Hargreaves energy is wasted at right back.....
i really feel that was an opportunity missed...

Barca for all their posession didnt faze me at all.... i think if we had gone there to at least make it a contest we probably could have won, their keeper didnt have to make one ****in save for gods sake.....

im disapointed with how we played and our attitude....yes it was a good defensive display....but we are not liverpool, we are Manchester United.... We should be attacking teams

Boggles

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I suppose you're right. Wouldn't want to lose out on moments of brilliance such as "Keane's right John...he's right about EVERYTHING."

"I know I'm repeating myself Bill, but honesty of effort"

- put a bit of honesty of effory into your punditry John and come up with one new fúcking opinion.

Xavi6

"Ah now Eamon, ya can't say that" - Most used line on television

Unearthly

I love how Dunphy slags off the tabloids. Let's ignore that he writes every week in the Star, and his sensationalist views are exactly what the tabloid readers lap up.

Giles on the underhand is sooooo boring now. He is more limited than Kevin Kilbane at his job

Boggles

Xavi6 wrote: »

"Ah now Eamon, ya can't say that" - Most used line on television

Good Old Bill he is a master of stirring it, even last night wihen Eamo was ranting that Ronaldo has ruined football.

- "Ahh Eamonn you can't say that given all the scores his got"

- "Ahh, that's putting it too strongly altogether"

Then to finish up with

- "I think you dead right."

They should get rid TG4 and have these guys on the whole time.

Edit

Actually re watching it again, Liam barely uttered a sentance, maybe he really has jumped the fence, Baby!

estebancambias

Boggles wrote: »

Why does Ronaldo have to justify the hype, he didn't create it.

He plays football in a manner most people like to see it being played, he does throw his hands in the air and shouts at his dead father, is that worse than a player that intentially kicks an oppenent because it's not going his way and gets sent off?

I think what Rooney does to Referee's is disgusting, you don't have to be a lip reading expert to figure out the level of abuse he dishes out. Did Eamo mention that when he was talking about Rooney being a model pro? Did he mention how he dived against Blackburn, or that when he didn't get the peno, he tried his best to Break Samba's leg?

I agree with this, but 'shouting at his dead father'...its his natural reaction to incidents....I do it...if anything its like saying ''why god...why?''

kryogen

Boggles wrote: »

Good Old Bill he is a master of stirring it, even last night wihen Eamo was ranting that Ronaldo has ruined football.

- "Ahh Eamonn you can't say that given all the scores his got"

- "Ahh, that's putting it too strongly altogether"

Then to finish up with

- "I think you dead right."

They should get rid TG4 and have these guys on the whole time.

Edit

Actually re watching it again, Liam barely uttered a sentance, maybe he really has jumped the fence, Baby!

Ah come on, leave Bill out of it, hes cringeworthy!!!!! and tbh he was saying your dead right to eamo when eamo said he was going to speak his mind, not when he was abusing ronaldo....dont stir it yourself now mr boggles;)

Boggles

kryogen wrote: »

Ah come on, leave Bill out of it, hes cringeworthy!!!!! and tbh he was saying your dead right to eamo when eamo said he was going to speak his mind, not when he was abusing ronaldo....dont stir it yourself now mr boggles;)

Who wrote that?..I'll tell you who wrote that...Kryogen...he's a creep Bill!

citytillidie

kryogen wrote: »

I voted draw but i honsetly though it would be score draw....and when i saw us get a peno i felt it was too early in the game.....was unsure if Ronaldo had settled enough in the opening two minutes to be focused enough to put it away...... he wasnt...

I was embarassed to be a united fan last night....its a bit extreme maybe but its my sentiments, it was like watching Liverpool play ffs, no intention of passing the ball and attacking.....i hated every minute of the game tbh.... I thought Wes was poor at centre back, Rio was immense however, barring one incident.... Scholes still has the attitude for these games and got stuck in, that was very important...Rooney was non existent and i blame Fergie for that...... it was a joke putting him wide right.....i actually thought he was playing right back a couple of times.....Hargreaves energy is wasted at right back.....
i really feel that was an opportunity missed...

Barca for all their posession didnt faze me at all.... i think if we had gone there to at least make it a contest we probably could have won, their keeper didnt have to make one ****in save for gods sake.....

im disapointed with how we played and our attitude....yes it was a good defensive display....but we are not liverpool, we are Manchester United.... We should be attacking teams

Yea Liverpool can win in the Nou Camp

kryogen

oh come off it, its simply because the liverpool players are used to those tactics, they are accustomed to them,they play the same way week in week out and i think its in their natural instincts to be cautious....therefore they are better at playing in that way....

we are not, our instincts are to attack..to create, asking a player to play in a situation alien to him and which goes against his natural footballing instinct will not bring out the best of that player....

citytillidie

kryogen wrote: »

oh come off it, its simply because the liverpool players are used to those tactics, they are accustomed to them,they play the same way week in week out and i think its in their natural instincts to be cautious....therefore they are better at playing in that way....

we are not, our instincts are to attack..to create, asking a player to play in a situation alien to him and which goes against his natural footballing instinct will not bring out the best of that player....

Don't forget the game came after a bust up while abroad so everyone was expecting Liverpool to take a hiding

kryogen

so what???

citytillidie

Just saying Liverpool as a team were not going into the game on form like United did last night, and Barca were flying in La Liga at the time.

Guess we just have to see next week what happens when United have to come out and play their normal game instead of trying to play the Liverpool way

kryogen

next week will be a better performance, it has to be!!! we have to play to our strengths or we will be out...no other way to do it for me

PHB

The only way to go is up

Unearthly

Well the fact that we need to score(doubt Ferguson wants penos) means we'll go out looking for that early goal similar to the Roma game last season. This year we were in driving seat against Lyon and Roma so didn't need to go out all guns blazing.