Barca vs. Man Utd (first leg)

dfx-

Utd bottled it big time I think.

Tevez was a defensive midfielder, Park was on the pitch, Rooney at best a wing back. Rather than it being a display worthy of the pre-match hype of European champions, it was one of fear of Barcelona's not very decisive attack. No better than Getafe or Espanyol or any number of teams who go to the Camp Nou and defend.

Valdes, their worst player could have read the Sunday Times, read War and Peace, cooked himself a meal, set up a tent and go for a snooze inside.

If Barcelona get near as much possession next week, I can't see them not scoring with more space. Especially if they play less through a seriously off-colour Deco

PHB

Which is how United defend against these teams. They do the same thing to Arsenal. It's our way of defending against a better passing team than us.

The match at Old Trafford will have less space, cause you know, the pitch is like half the size

I really don't think United set out to defend, I just think that United were **** going forward. I know its sometimes though to see the difference, but Tevez Rooney Ronaldo and Park were all on the pitch. Had Carrick and Scholes been able to string some passes together it might have been different.

The real defensive move from Fergie was Ronaldo up front, but to be honest, he just doesnt track back, and its too much to ask in Euro games. Barca used to do the same thing with Ronaldinho, who theyd play through the center in big European games and let Eto go on the flanks because he tracks back.

gosplan

PHB wrote: »

This match though, Ronaldo was great against an incredibly amazing Barca side.

I'm not knocking Ronaldo, I do think he's the best player in the world at the moment but I really don't understand how you can say that.

His attitude was poor, he gave the ball away a fair bit, his first touch and ability to hold the ball up and bring others into play was poor and he missed a penalty.

A lot comes down to opinion on these threads but you are dead wrong about this and only the most blinkered of Man U fans would be capable of agreeing with you.

Maybe it's Fergie's fault for playing him in the lone role but he had a poor game there.

eZe^

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought I got the ball AFTER he got the man.



Question eZe, are u as a Barca fan concerned by the fact that United did shag all tonght other than defend and waste possession and u basically attacked for 90 mins without a goal?

As a United fan Im concerned that now we have to either score one and keep u out or outscore u plain and simple in OT. We also have the nightmare scenario or it being 0-0 after 90 mins and then 1-1 after extra time and you's win on penalties and we're out having not lost a game in the competition

Great post earlier btw mate.

Well, the way I personally look at it is;

Barcelona were trying to break down a team with 11 men behind the ball all night, they failed because of how good defensively and hard working this United side is. Against a great great side like United you'll only make one or two clear chances on goal when they defend that well. We made one, in which Etoo scoffed it. Barcelona's finishing has been very questionable lately, and that was brought up again. They really miss Ronaldinho if only for his free kick ability, we had 4/5 excellent free kick opportunities and all were ****ely taken, Ronnie would have definitely put one in the back of the net.

On the flip side, United wont be this defensive in Manchester, thus creating alot more space for Barcelona to weave passes and whatnot. Which means that Barcelona will definitely have more chances on goal. That being said, the possession will be closer to 50-50, meaning Man United will have alot of good chances too. The thing that imo will be a great asses to Barcelona is, that if Barca score 2, United will have to score 3, or whatever. That means that Barca can afford to have a couple of defensive lapses as long as they make sure they have their finishing boots on.

You still have to give the advantage to United, they are just such a fantastic side that they have the ability to win any game in any stadium at any stage in a competition.

dfx-

PHB wrote: »

Which is how United defend against these teams.

The match at Old Trafford will have less space, cause you know, the pitch is like half the size

It may be, but United, supposedly a free-flowing attacking entertaining side, bottled it by being ultra-defensive. Barcelona played their normal game, Utd didn't.

If you attack Barcelona at home, you have a chance of winning even going behind ala Liverpool last season. Most average sides don't have the guts or the attacking players to do that and that's why their home record is impressive. Utd do have the attack, but didn't have the guts or the will.

Unless Utd do the same again, as mentioned above, there'll be more space to attack at OT. Against Barcelona's attack and if they can keep possession, it's a very dangerous game, which can go either way.

eZe^

eZe^ wrote: »

Great post earlier btw mate.

Well, the way I personally look at it is;

Barcelona were trying to break down a team with 11 men behind the ball all night, they failed because of how good defensively and hard working this United side is. Against a great great side like United you'll only make one or two clear chances on goal when they defend that well. We made one, in which Etoo scoffed it. Barcelona's finishing has been very questionable lately, and that was brought up again. They really miss Ronaldinho if only for his free kick ability, we had 4/5 excellent free kick opportunities and all were ****ely taken, Ronnie would have definitely put one in the back of the net.

On the flip side, United wont be this defensive in Manchester, thus creating alot more space for Barcelona to weave passes and whatnot. Which means that Barcelona will definitely have more chances on goal. That being said, the possession will be closer to 50-50, meaning Man United will have alot of good chances too. The thing that imo will be a great asses to Barcelona is, that if Barca score 2, United will have to score 3, or whatever. That means that Barca can afford to have a couple of defensive lapses as long as they make sure they have their finishing boots on.

You still have to give the advantage to United, they are just such a fantastic side that they have the ability to win any game in any stadium at any stage in a competition.

Thanks man.


I dont think United set out to be defensive tonight. Fergie said afterwards that he wanted them to impose their game on Barca but the poor passing stopped that from happening. Barca just played really really well and controlled the ball.

I think having Yaya/Deco and Xavi out there as well as Messi on the wing as opposed to up front was the difference. If United used Ronaldo on the wing then Yaya would have been roaming around looking after him and the midfield dominance may not have been as obvious. Messi on the wing meant that united were wary of committing the midfield too far forward and leaving him with space. Carrick and Scholes were just over run by the extra man and the ability of Xavi in particular and Deco to find their men quickly with their passes.

Thats why i think SAF will put 5 in the middle in OT. Anderson should have played tonight in hindsight. Then possession may have been more even as the numbers would have been even.

I think with 5 in the middle we may have a better chance of going forward and creating whilst not giving up too mcuh at the back. never thought Id be sitting here endorsing 4-5-1 but there ya go!


Personally Id rate United as only slight favourites based on the stat of 11 wins in a row at OT. United have become very Italian in their approach to Europe this season....tight tight away from home and getting it done at OT.

genericgoon

Yeah I think we were definitely dominated in the middle today. Would like to see 4-5-1 to snuff that out in the second leg.

kerash

PHB wrote: »

Great responses. You want to know why they were only one line? Because they were 3 penalties and you have no other repsonse to it but to try pretend it's bias.

No talking about the game overall, but United played as well as you could ask of a player playing out of position, with no service.

So united were poor because of outta position players and no service? Please, united shoulda been up for that match, Barca obviously couldnt score and looked so good passing because they were given so much space by the united "professionals", they shouldnt have a need to rely on penos.

On the other hand if Barca were the giants there supposed to be, they should have scored there, how many opportunities do they need? Rio was the key man for United, cant pick many positives out of it, Ronaldo was a disaster - partly of his own doing partly because of poor service, same for Rooney... united should win the second leg only because Barca cant score and home advantage...

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Boggles

I don't think it was the game we all hoped for. I think Barca ended up with 64% possession in the end, I expected they would have the majority being at home and all but not to that extent.

Still against a make shift defence they didn't have one clear cut opportunity, alot of their passing was around midfield and around our box.

Vds (5) - His kicking was woeful and he got us into trouble a couple of times. Maybe his strain is not a 100% and he was nervous.

The back four for me all get 8's, I think they played as a unit and were under intense pressure for the whole match, special mention for Brown who I thought was rock solid, I know he has a good few bashsers on the Forum.

Carrick (3) - Again proved he can't impose himself when the match is played at a high tempo, made one good tackle but missed out in nearly every 50/50 ball. Passing was bad, not all his fault thou as the players ahead of him were playing very deep.

Scholes (9) - Alot of people were calling for Scholes to be dropped tonight, with out him we would have been steam rolled, he has had to adapt his game to play ahead of a sitting midfielder who won't tackle, he broke up Barcas play countless times and was easily Uniteds best player.

Rooney - Not going to rate him, because i don't think he was fit, also he is not a wing back.

Tevez (7) - Thought he was excellent in the first half, broke up alot of play and hung onto the ball well, very impressive for a striker/defensive midfielder, tired in the 2nd half.

Park (4) - Not a player for this level, great engine but he didn't get near the ball - Anderson definately must have not been fit tonight.

Ronaldo (6) - Bad peno miss, pressure got to him. Thought he did his best playing up front on his own and any time he did have a run he did get passed players, he had no support. Thought he was right to be having a go at his team mates, he could clearly see the ****e that was going on behind him, I was waving my arms too.

Nani did nothing really, Giggs didn't touch the ball.

This Barca team are there to be taken at OT, pity about the away goal, just means we have to win the match now, something I thought we would always do anyways.

ziggy

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Sorry yea I messed that up. Thats the worst way to lose, not by away goals, but by away goals AET.

PHB

Thats why i think SAF will put 5 in the middle in OT. Anderson should have played tonight in hindsight. Then possession may have been more even as the numbers would have been even.

Thats the thing. Normally Fergie would go 5 in the middle to sure it up, but tonight decided to attack.

However he ****ed it up, cause our attack doesn't work unless Rooney is at the front of it. It just doesn't work. This is more a mistake in judgement than a statement of intent.

Anyway, I think to say that United played defensively is unfair on United, but more unfair against Barca. Barca defended the way Barca do, by not letting their opponent have the ball. They did this amazingly.

jesus_thats_gre

estebancambias wrote: »

McGeady> Ronaldo


God help football if two English teams are in the Champions League Final.


Man Utd are ANTI-FOOTBALL.

lol at this comment. New low to be honest...

evil_seed

I think Ronaldos pen miss comes down to what he really is, and no it's not a bottler. He's the ultimate show man. He was on the big stage tonight and the main attraction seeing as he's the most in form player probably ever. So he steps up to take the pen and goes to slot it into the top corner, the only place that would look good on such a stage. if it had gone in everyone would be fawning over how it was such a good pen and how he had such a cool head to place it into the top corner under such pressure. he let his ego get in the way of his team.

eZe^

Boggles wrote: »

This Barca team are there to be taken at OT, pity about the away goal, just means we have to win the match now, something I thought we would always do anyways.

Quite like 90% of the footballing world thought about tonights game, Barca were there for the taking tonight too ya? The fact is, United have also been quite lack lustre in Europe this season when you look at it performance wise. If United play the same against Barca as they did with Roma/ Lyon at OT then whats to say the conservatism won't bite them in the ass. Im yet to see Fergie go all out attack in Europe this season... The win wont come as easy as some people think, as tonight has proved.

jesus_thats_gre

These threads really need to be structured as follows in future:

"Whoever vs. Whoever - The build up"
"Whoever vs. Whoever - The match"
"Whoever vs. Whoever - The reaction"

****ing impossible to track them.

Boggles

eZe^ wrote: »

Quite like 90% of the footballing world thought about tonights game, Barca were there for the taking tonight too ya?

I thought Barca would win tonight.

eZe^ wrote: »

Im yet to see Fergie go all out attack in Europe this season...

Few people in Kiev that might argue with you.

eZe^

PHB wrote: »

Thats the thing. Normally Fergie would go 5 in the middle to sure it up, but tonight decided to attack.

However he ****ed it up, cause our attack doesn't work unless Rooney is at the front of it. It just doesn't work. This is more a mistake in judgement than a statement of intent.

Anyway, I think to say that United played defensively is unfair on United, but more unfair against Barca. Barca defended the way Barca do, by not letting their opponent have the ball. They did this amazingly.

I also think what happened is, Fergie picked an attacking team to play with a defensive mentality. So he didnt get the best out of his counter attacking options iswell. There was no midfielder that could hassle and bully Barca off of possession, like Sissoko, Mascherano and Essien have done in the past. That meant that Xavi, Toure (who's an excellent passer for a DMF), Iniesta and Deco as much time as they wanted to stroke it around.

Going on the performance I seriously doubt Fergie's tactics were to go all out attack, which is weird considering his team was set up to do so. If so, then its incomprehensible how such a strong attacking side could capitulate and be so ****e in possession.

eZe^

Boggles wrote: »

I thought Barca would win tonight.



Few people in Kiev that might argue with you.

Kiev, oh sorry, forgot about the deadly Dynamo Kiev and their array of quality all over the pitch. You honestly think Ferguson is going to go all out attack, despite being EXTREMELY conservative so far in this competition? Its definitely only 55-45 in United's favour tbh.

pyure

poor match for the neutrals, not the game I was hoping for.
Scholes and Tevez the only players who impressed - heck Scholes even managed to slide tackle without getting booked!
hopefully the next game will be the classic fast, end to end, who can score more? kind of game
Think it was a mistake not to go more attacking for an away goal, other than the peno i really cant think of a single united chance.

Edit: the stats say united got 1 shot on target. think that says it all really.

PHB

There was no midfielder that could hassle and bully Barca off of possession, like Sissoko, Mascherano and Essien have done in the past. That meant that Xavi, Toure (who's an excellent passer for a DMF), Iniesta and Deco as much time as they wanted to stroke it around.

Well you have to realise that Fergie's tactics were no doubt influenced by Vidics absence. Hargreaves would have defo started in midfield were it not for Vidic being out.
I fully expect to see him play against them at Old Trafford, especially as we'll be more expansive and need him to harry.

If so, then its incomprehensible how such a strong attacking side could capitulate and be so ****e in possession.

It's all about the system. Yes Carrick and Scholes were **** in terms of passing, but the issue is that without Rooney we have no shape.

Ronaldo is not a striker, he's not a target man, people say this normally because they don't like to call him a winger, but he doesn't play well as the most forward player, he likes to turn and run at people and hence makes a **** target man.
So we had no natural system in terms of passing, someone like Rooney to bring players into the game.

Normally if one of these parts don't work, you can survive. If Carrick had passed well it might have been a different game. If Rooney had been up front it might have been a different game.
But if both parts don't work, you'll be able to do nothing going forward.

Fergie should realise this, but he has this idea in his mind of how you win a European tie. It's an old fashioned idea to be honest, that's why Souness thought United did well tonight.

I know it sounds silly, but if Ronaldo had put away the penalty (which he apparently missed because his ego not because the pressure got to him) or got given one of the other two, it would have been the perfect European away performance in that sort of style. That's why Fergie will be kind of happy but disappointed we couldn't nick the away goal.

Personally I prefer the newer styles that people like Rafa are bringing in, of actually really going at teams in their own stadium, for at least the start of the match, then sitting back and defending.

Its definitely only 55-45 in United's favour tbh.

I don't know if I'd even put it at that. I'd say 51-49. United however are a different team at home in Europe. Posted this in the United thread but I'll repeat it here:

Milan last year:
San Siro: Utterly bitch slapped
Old Trafford: Tight game, won it by one.

Roma last year:
Stadio Olympico: Tight game, lost it should have lost by more.
Old Trafford: utterly destroyed them

Boggles

eZe^ wrote: »

Kiev, oh sorry, forgot about the deadly Dynamo Kiev and their array of quality all over the pitch.

eZe^ wrote: »

Im yet to see Fergie go all out attack in Europe this season...

Don't make statements like the above so. They played a team in Europe, doesn't matter who it is, they played 4-4-2 all out attack and scored 8 goals.

eZe^ wrote: »

You honestly think Ferguson is going to go all out attack, despite being EXTREMELY conservative so far in this competition? Its definitely only 55-45 in United's favour tbh.

Where exactly did I say Ferguson will play all out attack at OT?

eZe^

Boggles wrote: »

Where exactly did I say Ferguson will play all out attack at OT?

Well, the way I see it is, if Barcelona are there for the taking, then its the defense that needs to be exploited right. So if you want to exploit the defense, you will have to go all out attacking, because as you've seen tonight, when you play defensively Barca's fragile defense bairly broke a sweat.

Camp Nou isn't the fortress is used to be, our style has become waaaay too predictable and everybody knows that basically all you have to do is play anti-football and you got yourself a point, maybe three. It doesn't take too much skill either (see Getafe, Espanyol), just a lot of work and concentration, so when a team with as many good defenders as Utd its even easier for them. We played decent but it's not really just the end-product that is lacking, it's the movement on and especially off the ball. If we were moving half as good as we did in 05-06 we'd slaughter any team that comes to Camp Nou to defend and let us keep the game at the edge of their penalty area. But now there's not enough movement and thus not enough space is created and there aren't enough options offensively to unlock a defence as tight as United's.

But at Old Trafford it will be a different story and a goaless draw isn't really a BAD result for us. We just have to play calm and avoid conceding early (easier bloody said then done), then we have a shot. We will have much more space in the final third there and enough players to exploit them and wreak some damage, but he also is conversely true. I'm just curious if FR will try to battle them for control of the midfield and therefore possession or sit back and hit them on the counter attack. An early goal for us would be vital if it's the latter, but Barca defending against Man Utd in the classical sense will be disasterous.

It pains me to recognize how much of a different side this is to 05-06 with every game, despite basically the same players available.

PHB

But the thing is, United always need to score 2. They can't sit back on a one goal lead cause one away goal will do it for Barca. It creates a weird dynamic for the tie.

United will be better at home, and there is the home advantage.
But Barca can score an away goal.

I think as such we might see a similar system as employed tonight, except Vidic will be back, so Hargreaves can go into middle and mess up Barcas play a bit more. Also Ronaldo will play on the right, meaning we will be more potent up front.

kinaldo

I think Barca will go through. They won at Anfield last season and Stamford Bridge the year before (the only side to do so in the last four years I think...). If they play well at Old Trafford they should be good enough for at least a draw (can't see it being scoreless either).

LegacyUser

United will win second leg...2 - 0.

ironingbored

Barcelona gave united a lesson in how to play football tonight. Their passing was mesmeric and "that" passing move in the second half was utter genius. And all this with Eto'o, Messi, Deco, Henry, at about 70% fitness and missing Ronaldinho and Puyol.

If united were my team I would be embarrassed at their utter inferiority in all areas. On paper Carrick, Park, Evra, Brown, Hargreaves are just not CL winning material and their "potential" presence in a final demeans the competition. The team I support have in the past had shockers away from home for which I was ashamed.

Barcelona are supposed to be in disarray and united are supposed to have the "best player in the world" and despite this they come out and produce an anodyne display like that. I'm not saying they should have been all over Barca but come on be able to string a few passes together! How many times did the ball go out instead of going to a united player or fly over the top for a goal kick. I think a fully fit Barca would have scored a few tonight (Eto'o on a few occasions would have skinned Brown/Ferdinand if fully fit).

eZe^

kinaldo wrote: »

I think Barca will go through. They won at Anfield last season and Stamford Bridge the year before (the only side to do so in the last four years I think...). If they play well at Old Trafford they should be good enough for at least a draw (can't see it being scoreless either).

This teams a shadow of the side that went to the fortress of Stamford Bridge and won.

Xavi6

ironingbored wrote: »

On paper Carrick, Park, Evra, Brown, Hargreaves are just not CL winning material and their "potential" presence in a final demeans the competition.

Whatever about the others, Hargreaves has a winners medal from 2001 and Brown one from 1999 so clearly they are CL winning material.

iregk

I think Barca will do united in teh second leg. For starters they will have Puyol back and Messi all going well will have another week of fitness in him by then. United were simply played off the park last night and given a lesson on how to play football.

Ronaldo had the chance to stamp his name on the big stage and show everyone he is more than the best player in the world hype. Last night he disgraced himself, worse than Drogba did on tuesday.

Xavi was just outrageous in the mid field and whats ironic is the stick United fans have given Chelsea and Pool fans recently over being defensive. You now have nothing to say to us. You went out there, sat 7 players in front of the goal and got a lesson on posession football. Thing is they can't do that in OT they have to score so I fancy Barca to exploit that fully and score.

LuckyLloyd

eZe^ wrote: »

Well, the way I see it is, if Barcelona are there for the taking, then its the defense that needs to be exploited right. So if you want to exploit the defense, you will have to go all out attacking, because as you've seen tonight, when you play defensively Barca's fragile defense bairly broke a sweat.

Camp Nou isn't the fortress is used to be, our style has become waaaay too predictable and everybody knows that basically all you have to do is play anti-football and you got yourself a point, maybe three. It doesn't take too much skill either (see Getafe, Espanyol), just a lot of work and concentration, so when a team with as many good defenders as Utd its even easier for them. We played decent but it's not really just the end-product that is lacking, it's the movement on and especially off the ball. If we were moving half as good as we did in 05-06 we'd slaughter any team that comes to Camp Nou to defend and let us keep the game at the edge of their penalty area. But now there's not enough movement and thus not enough space is created and there aren't enough options offensively to unlock a defence as tight as United's.

But at Old Trafford it will be a different story and a goaless draw isn't really a BAD result for us. We just have to play calm and avoid conceding early (easier bloody said then done), then we have a shot. We will have much more space in the final third there and enough players to exploit them and wreak some damage, but he also is conversely true. I'm just curious if FR will try to battle them for control of the midfield and therefore possession or sit back and hit them on the counter attack. An early goal for us would be vital if it's the latter, but Barca defending against Man Utd in the classical sense will be disasterous.

It pains me to recognize how much of a different side this is to 05-06 with every game, despite basically the same players available.

Interesting post. Why do you think the same cast of characters are putting in very different performances two years on? Why was the edge lost?

IrishMike

ironingbored wrote: »

If united were my team I would be embarrassed at their utter inferiority in all areas. On paper Carrick, Park, Evra, Brown, Hargreaves are just not CL winning material and their "potential" presence in a final demeans the competition. The team I support have in the past had shockers away from home for which I was ashamed.

You do realise that Igor Biscan and Jimmy Traore have CL winners medals dont you?
Evra is probably in the top 10 full backs in the world for crying out loud!

Chong

He clearly hasnt a clue, any fan of football could see Evra is a quality player.

quad_red

Last night was a truly humbling experience.

Listening to the interviews afterwards, the view that United had a 'gameplan' and that it had worked perfectly depressed me even further.

Apart from the defence, United were totally shapeless. As has been said further up the thread, more literately than I could ever manage, Fergusons tactics completely neutered United going forward. And to call a complete domination and partial capitulation against a team with the frailties of Barca (defensively and in terms of the fitness of their star players) a vindication of sorts is even more disheartening.

Scholes did his best last night. He had to and that's Scholesy. He gets stuck in. Tevez to, did his best. Ronaldo, well, let's be honest - he's a cock. And he didn't do anything last night. But he retains the ability to change the course of a game and I think he'll perform in the second leg.

Watching Carrick fairy around makes my blood boil. And Park? Wtf was Park doing on the pitch? He contributed nothing. Absolutely nothing.

United went to Milan last year and fell apart. Is Ferguson up to reading and controlling games at this stage of the Champions League? Look at Liverpool. A team way off the pace in the League but with a bizarre sense of belief and confidence in Europe.

_blank_

Not read the thread.

Messi >x100 Ronaldo.

Messi is the best player in the world, he dominated the game in a way Ronaldo can only dream about doing on that stage.

United went out to defend, and did it very well, but they would have been better served playing Hargreaves in his natural position to break up the midfield, which Barca utterly dominated I feel.

Nani was introduced too late, and why the fúck was Giggs brought on? Did he touch the ball?

Rooney? Anonymous on the right.

Xavi6

DesF wrote: »

Not read the thread.

Probably for the best. Last night was 'interesting' in these parts

IrishMike

As much as i dislike Ronaldo comparing him to Messi is not fair based on 1 game.
Messi likes to be on the ball constantly and to create things in the box.
Ronaldo likes 1v1s where he can skin people and use his tricks to score goals.
They are different players both extremely effective at what they do.
But after saying all that i though Messi, Xavi and Deco looked light years ahead of
everyone in the united midfield.
How Carrick makes the squad let alone the team baffles me.
VDS looked exceptionally shaky last night too.
Time to give foster a good pre season and see what he is made of perhaps?

_blank_

IrishMike wrote: »

VDS looked exceptionally shaky last night too.

Lets call a spade a spade here.

His distribution was fúcking shíte.

jank

On paper Carrick, Park, Evra, Brown, Hargreaves are just not CL winning material and their "potential" presence in a final demeans the competition

You could say the same for the liverpool side that won it a few years ago.

PHB

PHB wrote: »

It's all about the system. Yes Carrick and Scholes were **** in terms of passing, but the issue is that without Rooney we have no shape.

Carrick was rubbish, Scholes very very rarely gave the ball away. He was the only player in front of the back four who showed up in any facet other than defence.

IrishMike

DesF wrote: »

Lets call a spade a spade here.

http://api.ning.com/files/It8iXrpaDzobDhtYbT5y*0evasA2CJpKzryGXNgtQMc_/spade.jpg

You are a spade ! :pac:

ironingbored

IrishMike wrote: »

You do realise that Igor Biscan and Jimmy Traore have CL winners medals dont you?
Evra is probably in the top 10 full backs in the world for crying out loud!

Yes, I do. I'm saying that they are in the same mediocre bracket that more than half the united team are in. In the top ten? I thought united aimed to be the best?

redspider

That was a strange game last night in a number of ways. First, Man Utd's tactics were unusual even for Fergie with Hargreaves playing at RB (he did a good job I thought), Tevez and Rooney up-front (and wide), etc. Setting up in what could have been a 4-4-2, then Man Utd allowed Barca to play the ball in front of them as they stayed back 5 yards and didnt hassle them, playing with a wide bank of midfileders including Tevez. This meant that Barca got lots of possession, but didnt create that many chances as they failed to unlock and thread passes through. Man Utd created even less as by and large they avoided committing players forward in vast numbers. The 'best' chances in the match came from penalty claims, most of which weren't given and probably rightly so.

I think Ferguson will be happy with a 0-0, as the gameplan back at Old Trafford will be completely different. There, it will be fast, and goals will come, and I would favour Man Utd at this point. Yes, it is possible that Barca might get a 1-1 or something, but that chance is slim for them I would think.

This is an under-performing Barca. Messi is good yes, Henry is good (when on), but in a way they are missing the creativity of Ronaldinho, and they dont have a good team ethic, of working for each other. They are under-firing and are playing poorly each week in La Liga. I wouldnt be surprised if Rijkaard goes at the end of the season and he may alrerady know that. Their weak defence wasnt tested last night. It will be tested next week and I would expect goals.

> Fair play to Etoo for staying up. He was able to so did.

This is an aspect of football which we should get away from and which I would like to see changed. A player should not be 'punished' for staying up when they are fouled. Its endemic though among players and managers and refs that if a player doesnt go down, then its not really a foul. But that shouldnt be the case, as that encourages people to go down and look to go down. I hate that aspect in the game and the sport is scourged by it.

As for the Punch and Judy show, erm I mean the Giles and Dunphy show, they are laughable at times, they are the clowns. Every time they mention the words 'great player' in a rant you know they have lost the plot. I cant figure out why they hounded Ronaldo so much. Sure, he has flaws, he is not perfect, and by his standards he didnt have a good game last night, but he has very very good attributes. Liamo at least recognises that, and those attributes cant be ignored. You can give him the ball and he can run at people and get past them. He is very dangerous. Yes, when he looks for a foul it is distasteful. But until refs start booking players a lot for dives, etc, not only Ronaldo when/if he does them, but ALL players, and until Managers come out against it, the scourge will remain in the game. Penalties and frees are won by dives so diving will continue.

By the way, Giles and Dumb-phy's love of Scholes is laughable. Yes, Scholes is a good player, but their level of love is way over the top.

At 0-0, it wasnt a good result for Barca and Man Utd are in pole position. The 2nd leg will (should) be completely different, and a 2-0 is on the cards.

Redspider

estebancambias

estebancambias wrote: »

McGeady> Ronaldo


God help football if two English teams are in the Champions League Final.


Man Utd are ANTI-FOOTBALL.

:pac::pac::pac:


1 game does not make u a bad team mate.

PiE

Watching Ronaldo's post-match interview on Sky... his demeanor, attitude and choice of words seemed creepishly similar to a certain Jose.

ironingbored

redspider wrote: »

As for the Punch and Judy show, erm I mean the Giles and Dunphy show, they are laughable at times,
At 0-0, it wasnt a good result for Barca and Man Utd are in pole position. The 2nd leg will (should) be completely different, and a 2-0 is on the cards.

Is it available on YouTube yet? Was in the pub and couldn't hear properly.

Mikeyt086

0-0 at the Nou Camp is a damn good result.

The attitude here is as if United got beat 4-0 last night. Wtf, going and not conceding puts us in bloody good shape if you ask me.

Memnoch

redspider wrote: »

As for the Punch and Judy show, erm I mean the Giles and Dunphy show, they are laughable at times, they are the clowns. Every time they mention the words 'great player' in a rant you know they have lost the plot. I cant figure out why they hounded Ronaldo so much. Sure, he has flaws, he is not perfect, and by his standards he didnt have a good game last night, but he has very very good attributes. Liamo at least recognises that, and those attributes cant be ignored. You can give him the ball and he can run at people and get past them. He is very dangerous. Yes, when he looks for a foul it is distasteful. But until refs start booking players a lot for dives, etc, not only Ronaldo when/if he does them, but ALL players, and until Managers come out against it, the scourge will remain in the game. Penalties and frees are won by dives so diving will continue.

Fair play to them for not bowing to the wishes of the legions of Utd. fans. At least they were balanced unlike the commentators during the game. God they wrecked my head. So biased it's not even funny.

As for Ronaldo, they are on the money. I can't believe you are trying to defend his diving as somehow justifiable. Just because people get away with it doesn't mean it's okay. A player isn't great just because of their skill on the ball. A great player is an ambassador for the sport and embodies the spirit of the game. A leader and a role model. All the really great players up till now have been these things. Ronaldo is the opposite. His antics are distasteful to the point of putting you off the game. I don't believe in rewarding cheaters, nor do I believe in lauding them. Whether it's Ronaldo or Drogba or whoever.

You can see the difference between Messi and Ronaldo. I'm sick of this "quiet game by his standards" nonsense. It's the same old story in every single BIG game he plays, one excuse after another. At least the ones I've watched this season. Be it vs Liverpool or Arsenal or Barca etc. Is he a dangerous player? Sure. Is he a good player? Sure. Is he one of the best wingers around? Maybe.

But the best player in the world? Not until he proves it by producing the goods against the big teams. Something he has consistently failed to do. After last nights match, it's clear that Messi is a better player than Ronaldo. And Messi is the one who has the potential to be considered a "great" player.

The one thing I know about "great" players. Is that they rarely if ever dive or engage in any other such nonsense. Not just because it's against their ethics, but because they don't need to. They are just too good. Ronaldo clearly feels he isn't good enough so he falls over every time instead of trying to win the ball back or stay on his feet.

We all agree Barca's defense is ****, and yet he struggled. Maybe he will have a good game at Old Trafford. But for me, more interesting will be seeing how Messi plays away from home with the hostile crowd in Manchester.

Ok, Ive already posted my opinions on the game, and Im not for one second claiming that there were any positives other than a world class defensive display to draw on from the teams performance but the result was ok. Not great, but ok. We didnt lose. But some of the ABU's here need to get a grip and consider getting some perspective. United drew, they didnt lose. Yet the atmosphere in here is like a carnival cos Man United drew and played badly. Yes they were sh*te but comments like "Man United are anti-football" supported by thanks from other posters is just downright bitter. Last night United werent anti-football by choice, they just couldnt get the ball because they couldnt keep it mainly due to Carricks passing ineptitude. Had they played anti football and packed 5 into the middle they would have had more possession. This is the reason why anti-football, forged by certain other teams in recent years, is winning over the old 4-4-2 style. Anytime in recent years that SAF has gone 4-4-2 and flat out attacked in Europe, United have been raped. Milan away last year, Real Madrid a few times but mainly the time in 2002 etc etc. And yet when he goes 4-5-1 he's a villain. When Mourinho/Benitez/Wenger use 4-5-1 in Europe and it gets them to the final theyre geniuses. Man United have hardly been anti football this year, if u say that u either havent a clue about the game or just plain hate Man United and will say anything, true or false, to put them down. Ronaldo had a bad game but he's ahd an immense season, the same posters who claim "one good game does not maketh a great player" are now saying he;s useless based on one game as a lone striker. And I agreed with Dunphy/Souness etc about his petulance, he needs to cut it out. Torres was pretty useless the other night and fluffed his one on one with Cech cos he took too many touches, and he was also throwing his arms in the air all the time and moaning but thats not talked about cos he's not Ronaldo....perspective lads.

Roma at home last year was 4-2-3-1 with a high tempo and it was the high tempo and pressure that won that game. People immediately thought it was 4-4-2 because of the fluidity of the play. If SAF does this again on Tuesday we have a much better chance.


Either way, I will be there, hopefully roaring the boys on to Moscow.


PS - for me, Ronaldo vs Messi.... Messi is better. The chip over Evra and the way the ball in just glued to his feet...beautiful. As a United fan I hate to say it cos I love Ronaldo but right now Ronaldo is number 2. But he will win world player of the year cos Messi has had so many injuries.

Memnoch

Memnoch wrote: »

Fair play to them for not bowing to the wishes of the legions of Utd. fans. At least they were balanced unlike the commentators during the game. God they wrecked my head. So biased it's not even funny.

As for Ronaldo, they are on the money. I can't believe you are trying to defend his diving as somehow justifiable. Just because people get away with it doesn't mean it's okay. A player isn't great just because of their skill on the ball. A great player is an ambassador for the sport and embodies the spirit of the game. A leader and a role model. All the really great players up till now have been these things. Ronaldo is the opposite. His antics are distasteful to the point of putting you off the game. I don't believe in rewarding cheaters, nor do I believe in lauding them. Whether it's Ronaldo or Drogba or whoever.

You can see the difference between Messi and Ronaldo. I'm sick of this "quiet game by his standards" nonsense. It's the same old story in every single BIG game he plays, one excuse after another. At least the ones I've watched this season. Be it vs Liverpool or Arsenal or Barca etc. Is he a dangerous player? Sure. Is he a good player? Sure. Is he one of the best wingers around? Maybe.

But the best player in the world? Not until he proves it by producing the goods against the big teams. Something he has consistently failed to do. After last nights match, it's clear that Messi is a better player than Ronaldo. And Messi is the one who has the potential to be considered a "great" player.

The one thing I know about "great" players. Is that they rarely if ever dive or engage in any other such nonsense. Not just because it's against their ethics, but because they don't need to. They are just too good. Ronaldo clearly feels he isn't good enough so he falls over every time instead of trying to win the ball back or stay on his feet.

We all agree Barca's defense is ****, and yet he struggled. Maybe he will have a good game at Old Trafford. But for me, more interesting will be seeing how Messi plays away from home with the hostile crowd in Manchester.

Eamonn? When did u sign up to boards.ie? Welcome.