Barca vs. Man Utd (first leg)

Idu

Memnoch wrote: »

The one thing I know about "great" players. Is that they rarely if ever dive or engage in any other such nonsense.

Utter tosh. Maradona deliberately handling the ball against England. Messi doing something similar in a league game earlier in the year, cant remember against who. Figo was known for the odd dive. Stevie G dives, Rooney dives. I could go on and on

Great players do what it takes to win football matches. Weigh up the pro's and con's of diving. Pro - penalty or free kick. Con - at worst a booking.

janets_on_clubs

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

Utter tosh. Maradona deliberately handling the ball against England. Messi doing something similar in a league game earlier in the year, cant remember against who. Figo was known for the odd dive. Stevie G dives, Rooney dives. I could go on and on

Great players do what it takes to win football matches. Weigh up the pro's and con's of diving. Pro - penalty or free kick. Con - at worst a booking.

Agreed, for me Zidane was the best ever...he certainly was flawed. There is no such thing as a perfectly complete player.

Loomis

Reading this thread and listening to utter ****e from the RTE spanners is infuriating. The crap that has been said in this thread really makes reading the Soccer forum painful and I'm questioning coming back at all. Reading the same tripe over and over again.

zAbbo wrote: »

Choke

Mr Alan wrote: »

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

mike65 wrote: »

ROFL Big Game Player?

What was George Hamilton at, that was some of the worst frilly prose I've heard from him.

Mike.

These are prime examples of utter rubbish from people who are either mentally challenged or more likely just stirring it which is why I don't like coming to this forum lately. Let me show you how. Baggio and Shevchenko - total bottlers. Missing penalties in big games = not big game players. :rolleyes: If you need an example like that to show you how incredibly stupid your comments have been then maybe there is something lacking.

As for the pundits; Dunphy is a windup merchant. He was a mediocre player and now enjoys winding people up being a mediocre journalist. He says things to cause friction no matter what he's discussing. Giles and Brady aren't as bad as they say things to be honest. He says things to make good Tv. He jumps on Ronaldo any chance he gets and always has done. Ronaldo was petulant and dived during the game and he was more than happy in pointing this out. He didn't point out any diving on the Barcelona team though. Iniesta looking for the penalty was the most blatant dive in the entire match but nothing was said about it in studio and the only comment I saw about it in 20 odd pages of gloating and trolling (with few exceptions) was "7.5 for Iniesta". Everyone else who was happy to point the finger at Ronaldo didn't seem to have the same desire to do so with Iniesta or the other Barcelona players. Interesting.

Ronaldo should have had another penalty when Milito came across him. Even the RTE pundits could admit that. And the lunge in the second half was very very dodgy to me. Some refs would give it just because the challenge looks awkward and rash but I don't think it was one. Just ran the risk. But the second incident was stone wall. Had Eto'o gone down he would be justified in having a penalty. Would the brigade crucify him for going down under the challenge when, as he showed, he was able to stay on his feet? Of course not, it's not Ronaldo. If the situation was reversed and Ronaldo went down legitimately under a challenge when he could have continued would they crucify him? Absolutely. It's Ronaldo.

Now to the actual match: Barcelona played great football and United played none. As good as Barcelona were we helped them look better. They kept possession and we hardly ever did - this was reflected in a 65-35% possession over the entire game in favour of Barcelona. But having said that they had few clear chances. Which is a good point about their lack of penetration which the pundits brought up. United were piss poor. Shocking. Their passing was atrocious which meant they had feck all possession. Which is why they created nothing bar one or two runs and interchanges of play. For me they stood off Barcelona far too much. They let them play across the pitch and didn't make an attempt to close down. Only when they got closer to goal did they try to put any kind of pressure on.

Ferguson's selection and then lineup boggles the mind. He picked what looked an offensive team but then played Ronaldo up top and Rooney out on the right. Which I don't think he's ever done with Rooney. Why choose all three Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo if you're going to play them out of position nullifying their potential impact on a game? Taking Rooney off for Nani is a good example of strange decisions. While he was absent the entire match on the wing as he didn't get the ball it would make more sense to have taken Park off, who also was non existent in the match, put Rooney on the left and Nani on the right with Ronaldo and Tevez still foraging up front. Even if the passing was still crap at least the players would be in their usual positions and more comfortable.
None of the United players played well. Their passing was terrible and they couldn't keep the ball or link up with the front men. Which made it an infuriating match to watch. The Ronaldo bashers bangwagon enjoyed telling us all how poorly he played - he didn't have the ball. Bar maybe three United players the rest were shocking tonight. No one could pass more than fifteen yards without giving the ball away. But it's easy to point out Ronaldo because unless he beats four players every time he gets the ball and scores in a match he's been disappointing and warrants the 'not a big match player' tag. Pathetic.

Ronaldo v Messi: give me a ****ing break. The trolls here and RTE pundits need a reality check. There is no way you can compare them on the basis of this game save one. Their attitude. Ronaldo's constant throwing of his hands in the air is petulant and annoys the hell out of me (though I can understand his frustration in a match like that with no service and having missed a penalty). After that I don't see how it's fair to compare. Ronaldo was on his own and got none of the ball. He had a few runs which were good and all his own making. Other than that what do you expect? The parrots saying he's not a big match player are either just winding people up or are expecting a hell of a lot - was he supposed to come back to the defense to get the ball and run from there? That's the only way I can see how he could have done more last night since the service into him was abysmal. Messi had a great game. He was positive with the ball every time. But he actually got the ball. He had a great game but ultimately their was no end product. If his and Ronaldo's performances were reversed I can guarantee the response would be "typical Ronaldo showboating but no end results." Strange the lack of consistency and forthcoming from the usual brigade though.

All in all it's a decent result. Poor performance. I don't think we have an advantage because the threat of conceding an away goal not having one ourselves is very dangerous. Hopefully in the return leg we put out a team of players playing their correct positions who get on the ball and play like we know we can.

Mr. Anderson

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

Reading this thread ........................

Excellent post mate.

Memnoch

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

Messi had a great game. He was positive with the ball every time. But he actually got the ball. He had a great game but ultimately their was no end product. If his and Ronaldo's performances were reversed I can guarantee the response would be "typical Ronaldo showboating but no end results." Strange the lack of consistency and forthcoming from the usual brigade though.

No end product? You're joking right? Every single time he got the ball he did something with it. As opposed to giving the ball away, falling over then swimming on the grass. Messi either put a cross in or a through ball or a played a brilliant one-two. End product does not mean "goals." There was tons of end product from Messi and it was evident for all to see.

This is what great players do in big matches. They take the game away from the opposing team, they influence the game. What was Ronaldo's influence on the game?

Memnoch

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

Utter tosh. Maradona deliberately handling the ball against England. Messi doing something similar in a league game earlier in the year, cant remember against who. Figo was known for the odd dive. Stevie G dives, Rooney dives. I could go on and on

Great players do what it takes to win football matches. Weigh up the pro's and con's of diving. Pro - penalty or free kick. Con - at worst a booking.

I said "rarely" not never. Maradonna's handball is a much publised incident. But he didn't dive week in week out and start swimming in the grass every time he lost the ball.

I can't believe your trying to make comparisons between Ronaldo's diving and antics to these players. Did you even watch the game last night? Or indeed most of the games where Messi has played? I can't think of a single game in which Ronaldo doesn't dive.

Stevie G is not a "great player," unless your an England fan, and he rarely dives. Neither is Rooney.

Memnoch

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed, for me Zidane was the best ever...he certainly was flawed. There is no such thing as a perfectly complete player.

Every one is human. Zidance had a temper and could be wound up as we saw in the world cup final. But he wasn't a diver.

No one is saying Ronaldo needs to be a perfectly complete player. But for me he fails to meet the basic requirements of being a great player on numerous fronts.

I fully expect to be mobbed by Utd. fans, but it had to be said.

Memnoch

Memnoch wrote: »

Every one is human. Zidance had a temper and could be wound up as we saw in the world cup final. But he wasn't a diver.

No one is saying Ronaldo needs to be a perfectly complete player. But for me he fails to meet the basic requirements of being a great player on numerous fronts.

Yea but ur missing my point. Go back over the last few pages and read my posts. I have said on more than one occasion that Ronaldo needs to cut out the ****. But people are going overboard on their celebration of him having a bad game.

citytillidie

All i can say even Rangers and Celtic put on a better fight and United did at the Nou Camp. If United showed more bottle and attacked more instead of 10 men behind the ball they would have won. Just like Liverpool did last season.

Everyone seems to forget Barca have a very good record playing in England and all they need to do is keep it tight and nick a goal.

Boggles

PiE wrote: »

Watching Ronaldo's post-match interview on Sky... his demeanor, attitude and choice of words seemed creepishly similar to a certain Jose.

Was thinking that too actually, maybe it is a Portuguese thing.

"I did not score tonight, no problem, I WILL score at OT"

The thing is who would bet against him. OT is Ronaldo's theatre.

As for Giles and Dunphy - predictably brilliant againt - "I don't care what SAF thinks" - "I don't care if he scored 1000 goals in the premeirship, Bill".

Ronaldo will never win those 2 clowns over, he could get a hat trick next week, but it will be construed as petulance.

Boggles

citytillidie wrote: »

All i can say even Rangers and Celtic put on a better fight and United did at the Nou Camp. If United showed more bottle and attacked more instead of 10 men behind the ball they would have won. Just like Liverpool did last season.

Everyone seems to forget Barca have a very good record playing in England and all they need to do is keep it tight and nick a goal.

Celtic conceded 5 and Rangers didn't even qualify for the knockouts, so I'm glad United don't fight like that.

citytillidie

Celtic at the Nou Camp conceded 1 and scared Barca. Even the German team outplay Barca at the Nou Camp and were very unlucky

Boggles

citytillidie wrote: »

Celtic at the Nou Camp conceded 1 and scared Barca. Even the German team outplay Barca at the Nou Camp and were very unlucky

Where are they now?

Nalz

citytillidie wrote: »

Celtic at the Nou Camp conceded 1 and scared Barca. Even the German team outplay Barca at the Nou Camp and were very unlucky

They were well out of the tie then thats not a fair comparison

PHB

Was thinking that too actually, maybe it is a Portuguese thing.

I do think there is a way that the Portugese language speaks, so that when they learn English they come off as arrogant. I think its to do with sentance structure. Ronaldo and Mourinho always speaks in short to the point sentances.

Boggles

PHB wrote: »

I do think there is a way that the Portugese language speaks, so that when they learn English they come off as arrogant. Ronaldo and Mourinho always speaks in short to the point sentances.

I thought that was German thing.

Either way, it is well known Ronaldo is not arrogant and is one of the more approachable "superstars".

Even looking at the 2 teams coming in last night, he was the only one to stop and get a picture taken with a couple of kids.

Saw this for the first time yesterday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az7tDB1cXRA

Idu

lionel messi stopped and got photos taken with 100 kids which i think puts to bed the argument over who's the best player in the world

Boggles

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

lionel messi stopped and got photos taken with 100 kids which i think puts to bed the argument over who's the best player in the world

Ok

IrishMike

janets_on_clubs wrote: »

lionel messi stopped and got photos taken with 100 kids which i think puts to bed the argument over who's the best player in the world

He also helps to look after his elderly aunt the last thursday of every month.
Case shut!

Hobart

Firstly, I think, that was the worst away performance I have ever seen in the semi final of the biggest European comp. No matter how much you Manu fans try to paint it (job well done, we deserved 3 peno's, etc....) the performance on the night was absolute crap.

It also makes me laugh how quickly some so called "fans" fall into the trap of slating teams like Liverpool and Chelsea for their "boring" style of football, and then in the next breath come out and defend the utter tripe than Fergie served up last night.

There is no point in blaming Rooney (playing at right back for most of the game), Carrick (or Ronseal as I now call him as he does what it says on the tin SFA), Park (another nothing player), you simply have to point the finger at Fergie and ask, what exactly did he think he was doing sending the team out to play like that? Now Barca did not get their formation correct either, and I would wager if Henry had started and Messi was fit, there would have been a very different result than there is now.

Ronaldo, for all his world class skill, was a total embarrassment. I totally agree that he was isolated and that the service he got was next to nothing, yes he made the best with what he got, but where does he get off with the antics? It must be so demoralising for players around him looking like a pumped up prima donna with his hands on his hips when he doesn't get a decision his way. Shades of his childish antics against Benfica a couple of years ago are raising their heads, and he's a worse player for it.

Messi showed was a semi fit world class player can do when his mind is on a game, and also showed Ronaldo how to behave and apply oneself in a top class game. He's an example to him, and Ronaldo should learn from him, but he won't. He was like a petulant child last night.

Barcelona will get a goal in OT, I have no doubt in my mind, Utd are good enough to beat them if they get the selection right on the night, based on last nights evidence that does not look likely.

quad_red

IrishMike wrote: »

He also helps to look after his elderly aunt the last thursday of every month.
Case shut!

And nutmegs the local supermarket security guard with a tin of beans after doing his aunt's shopping.

IrishMike

Hobart wrote: »

Firstly, I think, that was the worst away performance I have ever seen in the semi final of the biggest European comp. No matter how much you Manu fans try to paint it (job well done, we deserved 3 peno's, etc....) the performance on the night was absolute crap.

It also makes me laugh how quickly some so called "fans" fall into the trap of slating teams like Liverpool and Chelsea for their "boring" style of football, and then in the next breath come out and defend the utter tripe than Fergie served up last night.

There is no point in blaming Rooney (playing at right back for most of the game), Carrick (or Ronseal as I now call him as he does what it says on the tin SFA), Park (another nothing player), you simply have to point the finger at Fergie and ask, what exactly did he think he was doing sending the team out to play like that? Now Barca did not get their formation correct either, and I would wager if Henry had started and Messi was fit, there would have been a very different result than there is now.

Ronaldo, for all his world class skill, was a total embarrassment. I totally agree that he was isolated and that the service he got was next to nothing, yes he made the best with what he got, but where does he get off with the antics? It must be so demoralising for players around him looking like a pumped up prima donna with his hands on his hips when he doesn't get a decision his way. Shades of his childish antics against Benfica a couple of years ago are raising their heads, and he's a worse player for it.

Messi showed was a semi fit world class player can do when his mind is on a game, and also showed Ronaldo how to behave and apply oneself in a top class game. He's an example to him, and Ronaldo should learn from him, but he won't. He was like a petulant child last night.

Barcelona will get a goal in OT, I have no doubt in my mind, Utd are good enough to beat them if they get the selection right on the night, based on last nights evidence that does not look likely.

+1
Post of the week in my eyes

LuckyLloyd

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

These are prime examples of utter rubbish from people who are either mentally challenged or more likely just stirring it which is why I don't like coming to this forum lately. Let me show you how. Baggio and Shevchenko - total bottlers. Missing penalties in big games = not big game players. :rolleyes: If you need an example like that to show you how incredibly stupid your comments have been then maybe there is something lacking.

Or maybe it's just the fact that Ronaldo put in an embarrassing performance when the heat was on last year in the San Siro and his notable contribution last night was missing a penalty? It's very simple, until he does it in a big pressure game away from home there are bullets in my gun. And performances like last night reload it.

Hobart wrote: »

Firstly, I think, that was the worst away performance I have ever seen in the semi final of the biggest European comp. No matter how much you Manu fans try to paint it (job well done, we deserved 3 peno's, etc....) the performance on the night was absolute crap.

It also makes me laugh how quickly some so called "fans" fall into the trap of slating teams like Liverpool and Chelsea for their "boring" style of football, and then in the next breath come out and defend the utter tripe than Fergie served up last night.

Fair play. If Liverpool or Chelsea had come out of that game 0 - 0 last night they would have been lambasted by PHB and the boys for being no talent grunters who are unable to attack.

Ah lol really,

quad_red

Hobart wrote: »

Firstly, I think, that was the worst away performance I have ever seen in the semi final of the biggest European comp. No matter how much you Manu fans try to paint it (job well done, we deserved 3 peno's, etc....) the performance on the night was absolute crap.

I don't see many 'Manu' fans trying to paint it as anything other than a poor performance. I think you're serving your own agenda there buddy. Playing absolute bollocks last night doesn't alter the fact that United have played some scintillating football this year. And have been better to watch for 99% of games this season than allot of more defensively minded sides.... :P

Hobart wrote: »

It also makes me laugh how quickly some so called "fans" fall into the trap of slating teams like Liverpool and Chelsea for their "boring" style of football, and then in the next breath come out and defend the utter tripe than Fergie served up last night.

See above.

Hobart wrote: »

There is no point in blaming Rooney (playing at right back for most of the game), Carrick (or Ronseal as I now call him as he does what it says on the tin SFA), Park (another nothing player), you simply have to point the finger at Fergie and ask, what exactly did he think he was doing sending the team out to play like that? Now Barca did not get their formation correct either, and I would wager if Henry had started and Messi was fit, there would have been a very different result than there is now.

Agree 100%. It was at best a misguided attempt at overly defensive tactics. Which United aren't equipped to employ. Particularly with a mid field where the best tackler is Paul Scholes. More likely a complete mess which blunted United's abilities and demoralised and isolated the players who have won so many games for this season.

Hobart wrote: »

Ronaldo, for all his world class skill, was a total embarrassment. I totally agree that he was isolated and that the service he got was next to nothing, yes he made the best with what he got, but where does he get off with the antics?

Agreed, Ronaldo is a cock. But most footballers are these days. It's built up to the point where sky et al. go completely overboard and praise him whilst the rent a mob go ballistic in the opposite direction.

And this whole world class thing p*sses me off. I don't think either Messi or Ronaldo have proven themselves to be 'world class'. Surely you need to be performing at the highest level for longer than either of them have? As for who is the best in the world - how is that judged?

It's so subjective and reliant on the bias of who evaluates it, discussion on it soon ceases to be productive in any way shape or form.

Boggles

Hobart wrote: »

Barcelona will get a goal in OT, I have no doubt in my mind,

Not a slight bit of doubt? They played at home, dominated the game and didn't create one clear cut opportunity. United were piss poor - one of the most frustrating matches I have ever witnessed them play, but not as piss poor as Barca's final ball.

The rare occassion United got forward and ran at the headless chickens the Barca defense are they looked like they would score.

United played a team and a formation so alien to what they are used to Rykarrd could not have picked it better.

It is fair to say that United were terrible, it's also fair to say Barca were lucky in some decisions, United had the best chances to win the match, possession and passing mean **** all to be honest. Ask Man City, Bolton and West Ham.

Xavi6

Barca will score at Old Trafford for the simple reason that they will have much more space in the final third.

Last night everytime Messi got the ball he was double marked by Park and Evra. Iniesta was done by Hargreaves and Rooney. Will United adopt this same approach at Old Trafford? No of course not. It'll be one on one battles out wide. Wes Brown will most likely be back at right full so whoever plays left for Barca should have a field day. Personally I'd let Henry have a run at him for an hour at least.

Spud83

I generally keep things in the Utd thread but thought I would add my verdict of last night.

Once again Ferguson got it wrong in a big European game. Looking at the line up, I was scared I thought we would need the three centre mids to cope last night, but thought f*ck it at least he is going to go at them, and it looked like it for about three minutes. Then we seen how they we actually lining up

Rooney out right/left = Wrong. Completely ineffective all night.

Ronaldo up front = Wrong. Ronaldo has to be trusted on the right wing to track back. If he can’t be trusted he shouldn’t be playing. It sends out the complete wrong message to the lad. Every game he plays on the right he now thinks sure I don’t have to track back, if they wanted someone to track back I would be up front. If Fergie was scared about this then drop him, or play him up front with Rooney and have two wingers actually playing on the wing Nani/Park and Rooney/Ronaldo up front.

Hargreaves/Brown replacing Vidic = Wrong. Is Pique ever going to be trusted? Why play him in the Arsenal game if you weren't going to play him tonight? Although both players did OK, it removed Hargreaves as an option in the middle (you never want to change your back 4 during a game), and I don’t believe Brown is any better than Pique.

Park playing 90mins = Wrong. Why he was left on the pitch I will never know.

Not changing it after (45/55/60) min = Wrong. Ok we got a small foothold at the end of the second half but this evaporated after half time. It was obvious we needed to get closer to Barcas midfield and try keep the ball. Anderson and Nani should have been introduced instead of Park and Tevez with Rooney moving up top and Ronaldo out right.

Taking Rooney off = Wrong. He was never given a chance to have a go at the Barca defence, and he should have been. He would have been much better at getting hold of the ball and waiting for support to arrive. Tevez and Ronaldo didn't offer this all night which is why the ball kept coming straight back. Unless this was due to a lack of fitness/injury I can’t understand it.

Am I happy with the result? No. Nearly everybody on this board in the lead up to the game said I think we will need an away goal. That hasn't changed. I think we are in a very dangerous position and a set-up for semi-final f*ck up.

Happy with the performance. No. I am happy with how the back four performed and Barce had limited chances but for the full 90 they just looked one pass/one yard away from scoring. Carrick and Scholes did ok but had no options when they got the ball and were completely outnumbered in the middle. The front four(Park/Ronaldo/Tevez/Rooney) all had shocking games, mainly due to playing in bad positions, apart from Tevez who just didn't have an effect at all.

I know this all seems negative and it all could have been different had the penalty gone in. But we have been here before where we think we have got a good result after the first leg and thrown it away. I’m scared it will happen again, if Barca score first we will be in deep deep trouble.

IrishMike

Xavi6 wrote: »

Barca will score at Old Trafford for the simple reason that they will have much more space in the final third.

Last night everytime Messi got the ball he was double marked by Park and Evra. Iniesta was done by Hargreaves and Rooney. Will United adopt this same approach at Old Trafford? No of course not. It'll be one on one battles out wide. Wes Brown will most likely be back at right full so whoever plays left for Barca should have a field day. Personally I'd let Henry have a run at him for an hour at least.

You should be banned for making sensible well thought out comments like that.
They have no business in this forum

Iago

Memnoch wrote: »

No end product? You're joking right? Every single time he got the ball he did something with it. As opposed to giving the ball away, falling over then swimming on the grass. Messi either put a cross in or a through ball or a played a brilliant one-two. End product does not mean "goals." There was tons of end product from Messi and it was evident for all to see.

This is what great players do in big matches. They take the game away from the opposing team, they influence the game. What was Ronaldo's influence on the game?

everytime Ronaldo looked to put in a cross, there were no white shirts in the box.

everytime Ronaldo looked to play a through ball, there were no white shirts ahead of him.

everytime Ronaldo looked to play a brilliant one-two, someone else gave the ball away.

Ronaldo was playing out of position, isolated and got little or no support from an incredibly sluggish united midfield.

Why Ferguson didn't start Anderson in midfield and play rooney up front who can actually hold up a ball is beyond me.

Boggles

Xavi6 wrote: »

Barca will score at Old Trafford for the simple reason that they will have much more space in the final third.

Last night everytime Messi got the ball he was double marked by Park and Evra. Iniesta was done by Hargreaves and Rooney. Will United adopt this same approach at Old Trafford? No of course not. It'll be one on one battles out wide. Wes Brown will most likely be back at right full so whoever plays left for Barca should have a field day. Personally I'd let Henry have a run at him for an hour at least.

I see a role reversal at OT to be honest, the question is could Barca defense hold up to the sustained pressure that they put United under last night? Not a hope in hell.

2 great games to look forward to next week. I still think it will be a Liverpool v United final, then again I thought Barca would win 2-1 last night, you would have a handsome profit if you backed 0-0.

Xavi6

Here's Eamo btw in case you haven't seen it -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-09BAIS-e_s

Hobart

quad_red wrote: »

I don't see many 'Manu' fans trying to paint it as anything other than a poor performance. I think you're serving your own agenda there buddy.

[1]

If this is Ronaldo playing ****, I hope he plays **** for the rest of his ****ing life. If that match was at Old Trafford, he would have had three penalties. To say he played poorly is just stupid, no other words for it.

[2]

Originally Posted by Mr Alan View Post
why are Sky making out that it was an excellent performance from Utd?

1. Cos it was kinda.

See above. There are more, but I couldn't be arsed trawling through this thread multi-quoting.

Playing absolute bollocks last night doesn't alter the fact that United have played some scintillating football this year. And have been better to watch for 99% of games this season than allot of more defensively minded sides.... :P

I totally agree. But we are not talking about the league and a 6 goal thriller against Spurs, we are talking about last night.

Agreed, Ronaldo is a cock. But most footballers are these days. It's built up to the point where sky et al. go completely overboard and praise him whilst the rent a mob go ballistic in the opposite direction.

I don't know if I'd agree with your "most players are" comment, he does seem to excel on the big occasion, for some unknown reason. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a superb player, this is a side of his game that lets him down too readily and too often.

And this whole world class thing p*sses me off. I don't think either Messi or Ronaldo have proven themselves to be 'world class'. Surely you need to be performing at the highest level for longer than either of them have? As for who is the best in the world - how is that judged?

It's opinion. I don't really think that Messi has much more to prove. Look at his performances, when it matters. He's back from 6 weeks of injury and he can turn up with a performance like that? What do you think? His peers also rate him (it's no just me you know) just look at the recent World Player of the Year results to see what I mean.

It's so subjective and reliant on the bias of who evaluates it, discussion on it soon ceases to be productive in any way shape or form.

Subjective? Every opinion, whether in complete agreement or not, is subjective. I don't see where bias comes into it tbh.

Boggles

Predictably the anti Ronaldo vultures have swooped.

He was played as a lone striker last night, not only was he on his own up front, the rest of his team for most of the match were 60 yards behind him. Anytime he did get the ball he had to drop back 40 yards and recieve it, I watched the highlights again this morning, all but once when he went on a run he got into the box, but guess what his team mates were 60 yards away.

What do you expect him to do, he missed the penalty and credit the lad he still wanted to play.

Analyse the match on what happened as a whole, not on how poorly a winger played up front on his own in a game dominated by the other side.

Would Gerrard, Fabergas, Messi, Lampard, Cole have done any better in his situation last night, would they fúck.

Xavi6

If Eamon says he's a cod then he's a cod. Tis good enough for me.

alanmurphy83

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Hargreaves/Brown replacing Vidic = Wrong. Is Pique ever going to be trusted? Why play him in the Arsenal game if you weren't going to play him tonight? Although both players did OK, it removed Hargreaves as an option in the middle (you never want to change your back 4 during a game), and I don’t believe Brown is any better than Pique.

I agree, I wanted Pique in but u cant argue about this cos we kept a clean sheet. So this was correct. About the only thing he got correct but I have to correct u on this!


A lot of use of the word correct, hope i used it correctly!

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Predictably the anti Ronaldo vultures have swooped.

He was played as a lone striker last night, not only was he on his own up front, the rest of his team for most of the match were 60 yards behind him. Anytime he did get the ball he had to drop back 40 yards and recieve it, I watched the highlights again this morning, all but once when he went on a run he got into the box, but guess what his team mates were 60 yards away.

What do you expect him to do, he missed the penalty and credit the lad he still wanted to play.

Analyse the match on what happened as a whole, not on how poorly a winger played up front on his own in a game dominated by the other side.

Would Gerrard, Fabergas, Messi, Lampard, Cole have done any better in his situation last night, would they fúck.

Funny u mention that, Gerrard was absolutely anonymous (said it himself) against Arsenal and against Chelsea but I havent seen him being linched. If Ronaldo did what gerrard did earlier in the season when he gave up on the pitch and pulled his jersey over his face mid attack after fluffing a shot, this place would go nuts. Double standards. I think Ronaldo deserves some criticism after last night but the levels of it around here are laughable.

Spud83

Boggles wrote: »

Predictably the anti Ronaldo vultures have swooped.

He was played as a lone striker last night, not only was he on his own up front, the rest of his team for most of the match were 60 yards behind him. Anytime he did get the ball he had to drop back 40 yards and recieve it, I watched the highlights again this morning, all but once when he went on a run he got into the box, but guess what his team mates were 60 yards away.

What do you expect him to do, he missed the penalty and credit the lad he still wanted to play.

Analyse the match on what happened as a whole, not on how poorly a winger played up front on his own in a game dominated by the other side.

Would Gerrard, Fabergas, Messi, Lampard, Cole have done any better in his situation last night, would they fúck.

He should have been holding the ball up playing the simple ball back and try bring us team up the pitch a bit. Instead he was turning and running on his own. The rest of the team couldn't catch up because they were starting at least 30 yards behind him and were knackered from chasing Barca all game.

I am a Utd supporter and Ronaldo is a top class player but his attitude infuriates me some times. When he goes down and then sits there with his arms up to the skies when the ball is only a couple of yards away he should be straight back up and trying to close down the defenders trying to give his defence a break. When he turns and starts looking at his team mates and gesturing at them, or has his hands on his hips while they are trying to win the ball back and close down is disgraceful.

He was playing upfront last night because he cant be trusted to help out his team when he is on the wing. That alone says enough about his attitude, but until Fergusons gets tough with him it will never change. I fear he is being pandered to too much and it will destroy his chance to truly become a world class player, it could also destroy Rooney chance at greatness because every big game he is out of position, and Man Utds chance to be considered one of the all time great sides.

Mr.Nice Guy

Boggles wrote: »

Predictably the anti Ronaldo vultures have swooped.

He was played as a lone striker last night, not only was he on his own up front, the rest of his team for most of the match were 60 yards behind him. Anytime he did get the ball he had to drop back 40 yards and recieve it, I watched the highlights again this morning, all but once when he went on a run he got into the box, but guess what his team mates were 60 yards away.

What do you expect him to do, he missed the penalty and credit the lad he still wanted to play.

Analyse the match on what happened as a whole, not on how poorly a winger played up front on his own in a game dominated by the other side.

Would Gerrard, Fabergas, Messi, Lampard, Cole have done any better in his situation last night, would they fúck.

I'm not an 'anti Ronaldo vulture' but I can acknowledge he played sh*t last night.

God only knows how you can look upon a guy running down alleys and losing possession, throwing himself to the floor and constantly screaming to the high heavens as an example of a guy who "still wanted to play".

Lionel Messi fit that description. Ronaldo did not. It was a big match scenario that required a big match performance. Ronaldo didn't give one.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Double standards.

Nail on the head, critise Ronaldo, but do it on facts.

In the European ties this week I could name 8 performaces worst than Ronaldo.

quad_red

Hobart wrote: »

It's opinion. I don't really think that Messi has much more to prove. Look at his performances, when it matters. He's back from 6 weeks of injury and he can turn up with a performance like that? What do you think? His peers also rate him (it's no just me you know) just look at the recent World Player of the Year results to see what I mean.

Mea culpa, as you quoted, some are defending last night's performance. But no one I know is. But 'no matter how much you Manu fans' is a rather general comment, is it not?

Don't get me wrong - Messi is magical. And I think he will go on to be one of the greats (once he stays relatively injury free which he hopefully will). But he cannot be considered one of the greats yet. *yet*

And, for the record, Messi's potential exceeds Ronaldos.

But I just think the bile directed at Ronaldo can become a bit ridiculous. E'to is a diving, injury feigning, money obsessed swine. He dived a few times last night. Deco got Hargreaves booked. Barcelona players are well able to dive. The 'amazing' nou camp crowd booed United's every touch - how gallant.

I don't think there was much to write home about last night, bar Messi's vision and United's resolute defence (ie. the defenders composure rather than tactics).

Boggles

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm not an 'anti Ronaldo vulture' but I can acknowledge he played sh*t last night.

God only knows how you can look upon a guy running down alleys and losing possession, throwing himself to the floor and constantly screaming to the high heavens as an example of a guy who "still wanted to play".

Lionel Messi fit that description. Ronaldo did not. It was a big match scenario that required a big match performance. Ronaldo didn't give one.

Messi at anyone time had 6 team mates around him, contrast that to Ronaldo. Your a few chinks (I don't mean Park ) removed from the cause of Uniteds poor performance last night.

Spud83

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree, I wanted Pique in but u cant argue about this cos we kept a clean sheet. So this was correct. About the only thing he got correct but I have to correct u on this!


A lot of use of the word correct, hope i used it correctly!

Yes we kept a clean sheet but our midfield was over run, and we played one of our energtic midfielders at right back and left the other one on the bench. Scholes and Carrick didn't get close to Barca until about 5-10 yeards from the 18 yeard box. I beleive we would have kept a clean sheet with Pique starting, and would have a had better options in midfield, that is my point.

Deleted User wrote: »

Funny u mention that, Gerrard was absolutely anonymous (said it himself) against Arsenal and against Chelsea but I havent seen him being linched. If Ronaldo did what gerrard did earlier in the season when he gave up on the pitch and pulled his jersey over his face mid attack after fluffing a shot, this place would go nuts. Double standards. I think Ronaldo deserves some criticism after last night but the levels of it around here are laughable.

Although Gerrard didn't offer anything going forward I'm sure he still helped his defence and midfield out. Ronaldo consistently reacts to everything he does not just fluffed shots.

Xavi6

quad_red wrote: »

But I just think the bile directed at Ronaldo can become a bit ridiculous. E'to is a diving, injury feigning, money obsessed swine. He dived a few times last night. Deco got Hargreaves booked. Barcelona players are well able to dive. The 'amazing' nou camp crowd booed United's every touch - how gallant.

Ah yes, the same Eto'o who stayed on his feet to try and score when he could have gone down for what would have been a stonewall peno :rolleyes:

That's a pathetic counter argument.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm not an 'anti Ronaldo vulture' but I can acknowledge he played sh*t last night.

God only knows how you can look upon a guy running down alleys and losing possession, throwing himself to the floor and constantly screaming to the high heavens as an example of a guy who "still wanted to play".

Lionel Messi fit that description. Ronaldo did not. It was a big match scenario that required a big match performance. Ronaldo didn't give one.

Personally Im not arguing against his performance (if u could call it that) last night, what Im arguing about is the absolutely excessive level of abuse he's getting about it. Its one thing to highlight the flaws using last night as an example. But its gone way OTT. It stinks of people having a go cos its United and Ronaldo.

JimiTime

Boggles wrote: »

He was played as a lone striker last night, not only was he on his own up front, the rest of his team for most of the match were 60 yards behind him. Anytime he did get the ball he had to drop back 40 yards and recieve it, I watched the highlights again this morning, all but once when he went on a run he got into the box, but guess what his team mates were 60 yards away.

What do you expect him to do, he missed the penalty and credit the lad he still wanted to play.

Analyse the match on what happened as a whole, not on how poorly a winger played up front on his own in a game dominated by the other side.

Would Gerrard, Fabergas, Messi, Lampard, Cole have done any better in his situation last night, would they fúck.

Tend to agree. Ronaldo is a petuland kid, and sometimes I absolutely hate what he does. However, sometimes he's brilliant. I'd defo take messi over him, but he's still a great player, just with some very frustrating flaws. However my judgement is not just on last night. You can't compare the two on last nights game. Barca played a game that suited Messi.

For me its simple, Ferguson is the bad guy of last night. Ronaldo was at his petulant worst, because utd were not playing attacking football, and Ronaldo was hardly given a chance. Rooney was out of position, Tevez was almost a defensive midfielder. Personally, I think Fergie gave Barca too much respect. FFS, Schalke gave them a run for their money, and they hardly put Celtic to the sword. Hargreaves should have been the holding midfield with Scholes. Park will do a job breaking up play and getting tackles in/tracking back, so I would have probably left Tevez out. Play Rooney up, Ronaldo with his free roll behind Rooney. Depending on how the match progressed, putting Tevez on in the second half. Fergie really baffled me last night!

IMO, Utd should have tried exploiting their weakness (defence), instead of defending their strenth (attack). Actually, I can see no reason that they couldn't have done both, Effectively!

Boggles

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Although Gerrard didn't offer anything going forward I'm sure he still helped his defence and midfield out. Ronaldo consistently reacts to everything he does not just fluffed shots.

Gerrard offered nothing going forward, midfield or going back. He said so himself, worse performance he has ever put in against Arsenal.

Does that make him any less of a great player, not at all.

I'll let people into a little secret.

Pele, Maradona, Best, Baggio, Charlton, Eusebio, etc all had off days too.

wheres me jumpa

I was dissappointed with our offensive play but I really cant blame the players. Ronaldo, was dissappointing but he was in a thankless role. The set up of the team, i.e. cram as many players behind the ball meant we were always likely to be on the back foot.

I dont think Barcelona ever really committed to an attack either. Their back four seemed pretty static, which meant there was very little space to play balls into for Ronaldo to chase. He did isolate Marquez on one or two occassions and he was always going to come out on top, unfortunately it just didnt happen enough.

gucci

Boggles wrote: »

Would Gerrard, Fabergas, Messi, Lampard, Cole have done any better in his situation last night, would they fúck.

This is probably more of a dig at fergie than ronaldo, but none of the other guys would have been played up front on their own.
I think Ronaldo could have played a better game up front alone if he used his head a bit more, maybe he'll learn from last night?
Its pointless really speculating on a players performance for the rest of a game after missing a penalty.

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

In the European ties this week I could name 8 performaces worst than Ronaldo.

But can you name 8 players who are hyped up more and receive more discussion as the "best player in the world"?

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

But can you name 8 players who are hyped up more and receive more discussion as the "best player in the world"?

Not his fault now is it?

He is the best player this season in a league that is totted the best in the world, of course he will be hyped as the best player in the world, not once that I am aware of has he came out and said "I am the best player in the world".

Every Barca player shook his hand last night, a guy who is a cod seems to dominate alot of respect.

I'll tell you who said that....